"ERTW's Beguilers of the Inner Sea" link stopped working. The searchable version is still accessible, though.
Would it be okay for others to reupload your files, if anything happens, so there would always more than one copy floating around?
Sorry about the late reply and the issues with the links. Feel free to rehost the files if you'd like. I've also uploaded the four files into a single mega folder.
Just found your build today, and intrigued by the possibilities!
I’ve searched this thread and your conversion doc, as well as PF official sources I have, and can’t find an answer - what is “Morithil”? It appears to be a special material in context to its use in weapons (like the Morithil Blade that casts shadows without casting light).
Thanks!
Morithil is a special material that essentially possesses the same properties of mithral. However, if it's honed into a slashing weapon it gains the extra properties outlined under the morithil blade listing on pages 31-32 of the main conversion document.
Hello all, as has been the habit as of late I'm dropping in from a long hiatus. A few pieces of news one of which is particularly big (for me at least).
*Big news first: After over seven years of working on this conversion I am finally going to officially put this one to bed. As it stands 1E material is no longer coming out, the conversion itself is fairly robustly worked out, and I no longer have much time to dedicate to continuing work on the conversion. I may still make small changes here and there to tune things if I get feedback on things, but for better or for worse what is linked in this message will be the final form of the main conversion and BotIS. I'd like to extend a big thank you to everybody who has helped this conversion along the way, especially those who provided feedback, ideas, and testing. I've been very pleased to hear that, even after all this time, the conversion is making people happy and providing fun gaming experiences today.
* I have been asked about a Spheres of Power version of the beguiler a handful of times over the past few years. I didn't feel sufficiently knowledgeable of that subsystem to make the jump properly, however recently a user of the conversion who had been in frequent contact with me to provide feedback suggested a potential framework for a SoP beguiler. Working with him we have produced an archetype for the SoP's Mountebank class which I feel encompasses the true heart of what made this beguiler conversion work. I'd like to extend a big thank you to Sappy for his hard work and invaluable feedback in getting this archetype up and running. The Guild Sharp mountebank archetype has been added to the finalized version of the main conversion document that can be found here:
ERTW's Beguiler Conversion - Finalized Version ERTW's Beguilers of the Inner Sea - Finalized Version
Once again I'd like to extend my heartfelt thanks to all those who have been with me along this crazy journey. Your help, feedback, or even just shared stories about using my conversion in your games have been an incredible part of my life for almost a decade. Thank you.
While on door duty this Halloween I had an idea pop into my head, a baleful shadow focused archetype that mirrors the old spellwarp sniper. I still need to sit down and flesh out all the details, but I'd like to get a feeling about whether or not people would be interested in such an archetype.
After getting comments about balance concerns on phantasmal conduit, I've limited the free action teleport effect to once per round. I've pushed that edit out alongside a few other minor edits to the main conversion and BotIS documents, including a couple of new magic items: the extradimensional anchor and impostor's cufflinks.
After getting a few questions I've made some minor edits to clear up issues with the function of the phantasmal conduit spell as well as the pricing of magical tattoos. The updated version of the beguiler main conversion document can be found here.
Quick update:
I've pushed the provisional update into the main conversion document with the classic cloaked casting variant rule included for those who don't want the increase to cloaked casting's power level.
Also Nicholas, I'm sorry I haven't been able to look over what you sent me yet since my daughter has been sick with an ear infection all week.
Silent Spell and Still Spell still require the higher spell slot, they just don't suffer the increased casting time that any spontaneous caster suffers when applying metamagic. This is purposeful, it prevents exactly what you're talking about (applying Silent and Still to every spell cast).
Conceal Spell gives no provisions for ignoring the Bluff/Disguise check even if silenced. Only the Sleight of Hand check can be ignored for spells without somatic components (usually done through either Still Spell or with the Sleight of Blade feat).
Cloaked casting is an ability that innately comes with a cost, even though there are numerous avenues to activate it. Be it action economy (feinting), skill investment (hidden signs), feat investment (initiative), customization options (subtle casting), or spells (invisibility).
chronoquairium wrote:
Every argument of the beguiler's balance (slightly under a sorcerer) were in page 5 or below, and the class is basically a whole new beast altogether now.
I personally feel a lot of the balance arguments still hold true. Yes the spell list has gotten bigger, but most of these spells are more flavourful than powerful. Still no flight, long range teleport, binding, polymorph, or antimagic spells. Direct damage and summoning (almost always behind shadow spells), as well as scrying spells are limited to orders and archetypes. Skills have always been part of the beguiler kit and have actually done down since the conversion started. Orders still mostly provide breadth rather than depth into the beguiler's key strengths in spellcasting.
chronoquairium wrote:
I'd love to hear that I'm wrong, because I love this class to death and want to use it myself in my next campaign, but it just seems too strong. The medium BAB and casting in light armor was fine until the spell list expanded, IMHO, and the class has only gotten better and better from there.
I think that in the end, balance is a continuum and everybody has to find their game's place on that line. I've tried to provide options that fit a wide range balance points. If you think the spell list is too big, switch to the all spells known variant rule. If you think some of the orders give too much, limit yourself to a handful of options you think are in line with what you want.
chronoquairium wrote:
This is where I disagree with Nicholas - I think that the class, were it to get anything more powerful, like from the Provisional document, it will surpass almost every other class, even Wizard. Definitely be better than a sorcerer.
From my experience DMing friends who have played the class I'd have to disagree with this assessment, but that's the funny thing about balance - everybody has their own take. I'm sure there are other regulars in the thread with similar feelings to mine, and there are probably people who would throw this conversion in the trash out of hand declaring it overpowered as is.
From where I stand: yes a beguiler use skills or spells to sidestep an encounter, but so can a sorcerer with almost as much efficiency (and if that fails he can also fly around the room flinging fireballs at his enemies).
I just had an idea for a potential replacement for aura of indiscretion that wouldn't be as potentially problematic with the new CC progression. What if you gave them an aura power akin to the antipaladin's aura of cowardice that broke immunity to mind affecting spells. That would help mitigate the potential save stacking and simultaneously cancel out one of the beguiler's greatest weaknesses.
I really like that idea. Let me draw it up tonight.
A new provisional update has been uploaded with aura of indiscretion replaced by disarming aura.
And the current provisional update can be found here.
SylverFox wrote:
One issue I see is with the new artifact: it seems like a single user could continuously use the stone to move as many people or items through the gate simply by continuously walking back and forth between them. You might want to put a cooldown of a few hours (maybe days) to prevent a situation where you would only really need one or two Heimdall-style gatekeepers to disrupt the need for a passage.
Penumbral Shadow wrote:
I agree with Sylver that the artifact needs a serious cooldown to keep it from breaking the world wide open, either a day at least or possibly just making it work for a single one-way trip (could be great for Jade Regent players who want to return to Avistan after the AP is finished).
That's something I hadn't thought about, but I think you're right it needs some type of restriction. I think making it one use would be a touch too restrictive, but a cooldown would definitely be in order.
SylverFox wrote:
I just had an idea for a potential replacement for aura of indiscretion that wouldn't be as potentially problematic with the new CC progression. What if you gave them an aura power akin to the antipaladin's aura of cowardice that broke immunity to mind affecting spells. That would help mitigate the potential save stacking and simultaneously cancel out one of the beguiler's greatest weaknesses.
I really like that idea. Let me draw it up tonight.
Another quick update: I've just pushed an update of the BotIS document which includes the ikiryo (a new ninja themed archetype from distant Tian Xia) and a new artifact to aid ikiryo in moving between the Inner Sea and their home continent. I've also moved all non-core race FCBs over to the BotIS document.
A +4 to DCs is really strong, especially if you couple it with hidden signs to reliably trigger cloaked casting. Combining this with a penalty to enemy Will saves from the aura takes it even further. Add in a kitsune with the FCB that pumps enchantment DCs and you could easily end up with a heightened dominate or geas with a DC well into the 40s or 50s which could be game breaking.
I understand the reticence, I too was nervous about moving into that territory. However I think a potential late game, race locked, school locked build isn't necessarily grounds to hold the change back. Up until level 14, it's roughly equivalent to a caster with Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus (which are probably the first two feats a school focused beguiler would want to pick up).
That said, the increase to save DCs was (on a gut level, at the very least) the hardest of these provisional changes for me to swallow. As always I value your input and would love to hear from others about whether they think the increased save DCs are too much.
Alright, so after thinking over some of Nicholas' comments I've put together a new provisional update to get feedback. I'm curious to hear from all about how these changes look. Are they too much, too little, or just right?
Changes:
Hide in plain sight now comes online at level 9.
Swift feint now comes online at level 11.
Cloaked casting now grants +1 bonus to save DCs at level 2, increasing by 1 every 6 levels thereafter. At level 8 rolls to overcome SR gain the same bonus. At level 19 SR is automatically overcome.
New ability phantom bulwark allows 3/day negation of crits or sneak attack, gained at level 15.
New ability aura of indiscretion causes those within 30 ft. to suffer a -4 penalty on Sense Motive checks against you and -2 on Will saves against your abilities, gained at level 17.[/list]
One nice thing about this arrangement is that it fills in the class features table well, leaving gaps only at 12, 16, and 18 (where you're still getting new spells and order spells). As always, I'm excited to hear what people think of the changes and where they think things could be further improved.
Nicholas,
You've given me a lot to think about here. I'll need to take a while to digest everything. Thank you for your insights and I look forward to any more analysis you're willing to share.
SylverFox wrote:
I love this idea. The most obvious option to me seems like poaching abilities from the ninja class itself. Stuff like the ki pool and ninja talents seem ripe for the picking. You might want to look at Everyman Gaming's unchained ninja or Dreamscarred Press's stalker for more inspiration.
That's what I was hoping to avoid, but it may well be the best approach.
The current thing I've had rolling around in my mind is a Tian Xia flavoured beguiler order trading on the continent's ninja traditions (for the BotIS document). I'm having trouble hammering down a sequence of order powers that I really like for it, so I figured I might as well open the floor to any suggestions to see if I can find a direction that really grabs me. What would you like to see out of a ninja themed beguiler order?
Tiny update on umbral reaver pushed out tonight, I had forgotten to write up the ability that allows the slayer to keep using quarry after losing studied target.
Just wanted to drop in to mention I've just uploaded a new version of the main conversion document with a new beguiler class template: the umbral reaver. It's a template for the barbarian, slayer, and swashbuckler that gives them access to a version of the shadowgraft skirmisher's shadowblade while they are raging. Also I don't think I mentioned it when I put it in, but there's also a somewhat new template for the cavalier, paladin, and ranger called the mythical gallivant which upgrades their mount to a magical beast akin to the elusive trickster's companion.
Thanks for your input, I've updated the main conversion document to include the renamed professional dilettante (formerly capricious professional) archetype.
Well if people are satisfied with the shape of the capricious professional, I can write it up and push it out some time in the next week or so. A question to the thread: do you think it belongs in the main conversion document or BotIS? My gut says BotIS because its versatility may make it more powerful than most beguiler options, but I'd like to hear others' opinions on the matter.
Here's the basic layout for what I'm thinking of for this factotum-beguiler hybrid. The language will need to be cleaned up, but I hope it gives you enough to offer any comments/thoughts you might have. I have no experience with the factotum myself so I hope it captures the feeling of the class adequately.
** spoiler omitted **...
Looks great! The only thing I think could make it better is be something like the empiricist investigator's ability to use Int for a wider variety of skills.
An interesting idea. I could change consummate professional around to give int to disable device, perception, profession, sense motive, use magic device, and diplomacy to gather information instead of their normal modifiers, as well as allowing untrained profession checks.
Here's the basic layout for what I'm thinking of for this factotum-beguiler hybrid. The language will need to be cleaned up, but I hope it gives you enough to offer any comments/thoughts you might have. I have no experience with the factotum myself so I hope it captures the feeling of the class adequately.
Capricious Professional:
Capricious Professional (beguiler archetype):
Skills per level bumped up to 6+Int.
Diminished spellcasting.
Inspiration (Ex): As the Investigator class feature of the same name, gained at 1st level. Replaces 1st level order power.
Sorcerous Dabbler (Ex): At 2nd level, spend 1 point of inspiration as a swift action to add one sorcerer/wizard cantrip or spell to the beguiler's spells known for 1 minute. Spell level cannot exceed 1/3 her beguiler level. Once a spell has been leanred in this way, it cannot be learned again until the beguiler has rested for 8 hours. Replaces order spells and savvy preparation.
Consummate Professional (Ex): At 3rd level, add Intelligence modifer as a bonus to all Profession skill checks and make any Profession check untrained. Replaces hidden signs.
Spot Weakness (Ex): At 4th level, spend 1 point of inspiration as a free action to add 1d6 points of sneak attack damage to a qualifying attack. Inspiration must be spent before the attack is rolled. Use beguiler level as rogue level when determining if she can sneak attack a target with uncanny dodge. Replaces muddling aegis.
False Fervour (Su): At 7th level, spend 1 point of inspiration as a standard action to channel energy as a cleric of her beguiler level - 4. Can do this a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. Replaces 7th level order power.
Adept Mirror (Ex): At 13th level, improve her mimicing abilities. When using sorcerous dabbler, add spell known for 10 minutes. When using spot weakness, gain sneak attack dice equal to 1/3 her beguiler level. When using false fervour, channel energy as a cleric of her beguiler level. Replaces 13th level order power.
True Factotum (Ex): At 20th level, copy a wide array of extraordinary powers. At the start of the day, select three extraordinary abilities available to other classes as class features at 15th level or lower. By spending 4 points of inspiration, the beguiler gains use of this ability for 1 minute (treating her beguiler level as her effective level in the relevant class). She can use each chosen class feature once per day. Replaces Paragon's Aspect.
Hey there, I absolutely love the look of this conversion. May I ask how you managed to get it looking so much like an actual paizo product?
It's really great to see that people are still working to recreate some of my 3.5 favorites like the beguiler. While looking this over I was struck with a little inspiration myself. I think you may have a decent framework to build a factotum look alike as a beguiler archetype. Give it more skills/level, an inspiration pool like an investigator, let it use savy preparation for a wider stable of spells and swap order powers out for the factotum's other class feature mimicing abilities. Just though5 I'd drop the suggestion incase you liked it.
That might actually be an approach I could work with. Give me a few days to see if I can iron out something reasonable.
Just dropping a minor QoL update: the table of contents for both the main beguiler conversion document and the BotIS document have now been linkified, so clicking on an item will bring you to the header of that section.
I've updated both the main conversion document and the BotIS document with some updated magic items, including expanded rules for the beguiler's raiment and a greatly downpriced night's watch.
Just pushed a minor update to BotIS to include the jackal token of greed and to add a proviso to the wayfaring haunter's nomad's path ability to ensure that a turncoat's weapon can only be used by her and only sold for scrap.
Well folks, it's been another year so it's time for the 4th anniversary update to the beguiler conversion. This time around it's the Beguilers of the Inner Seas' turn to get an update.
What's new:
Four new guilds (the Dathru Clan, the Sovereign's Court, the Spellscar Nomads, and the Starfall Turncoats)
Two new archetypes (Order of the Vilderavn, and Wayfaring Haunter)
Golarion-specific pieces of beguiler equipment
Four new feats
A new artifact: the Runesworn Token
Enjoy, and as always comments and suggestions are always welcome.
I suppose that's reasonable. Given when it'll be bought the savings will be pretty miniscule.
In that case I've pushed Shadowmarked Aegis into the main conversion document.
wraithstrike wrote:
For the 20th level ability that ignores SR. Is it saying that:
A. If a beguiler targets a creature that has SR the beguiler can ignore SR.
OR
B. If someone is currently under the effect of spell or ability that came from the beguiler that the beguiler gets to ignore SR.
Example of B:
Round 1:Beguiler cast spell X which has a duration of 1 round or greater and rolls high enough to bypass SR.
Round 2: Since the creature is under the effect of a spell that came from the beguiler any spell cast this round automatically bypasses it
It's A, however the target creature must also satisfy the requirements of cloaked casting (denied Dex to AC or unaware of casting) in order for the beguiler to ignore SR.
Where is the pricing for this item coming from? It seems a little low to me. After all the mage armor function alone ought to cost 2000 gp at CL 2.
2,000 gp for the mage armour (CL 1 actually, but continuous activation) and then 1,000 gp (plus 50% for secondary effect) for the armour summoning. I figured the item would be affordable in the area of levels 5-7, at which point the cost of the base armour would be commoditized into basically nothingness. I was torn on the costing of the summoning (between 1,000 gp and 4,000 gp for light and medium mithral armours), but decided to err on the side of the light armour since there's not very many low priced magic items in the conversion document meaning that a lot of unique beguiler items are cut off until the mid-late game. That's also why I decided not to double the cost for a slotless item.
These tattoos, usually found on a beguiler's breastbone or the small of her back, feature prominent chain or padlock motifs. Those who bear this mark are protected as if continually under the effects of a mage armour spell. She can raise or lower this defense as a free action.
A shadowgraft skirmisher feels a far closer connection to this mark, as it is is composed of the same crystalized shadowstuff as the tattoos that summon their shadowblades. So long as a she has at least 1 point in her arcane poole, a shadowgraft skirmisher bearing this mark can spend a full round action to summon any type of light or medium armour. This armour is always made of a dusky tinted mithral however medium armours summoned in this way are treated as light for all purposes, including proficiency. The armour is always summoned donned, can only be doffed by dismissing it as a swift action, and subsequent summoned suits of armour automatically dismiss the old armour.
Like her shadowgrafted marks, the beguiler can enhance these marks as if they were a suit of light or medium armour, even if she does not possess the Craft Magic Arms and Armour feat (although she must pay the full base price for the enhancement if she does not have the feat). These enhancements are not applied to the mage armour effect of the mark, and any enhancements that are incompatible with the type of armour summoned are ignored.
CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armour, mage armour; Cost 1,750 gp
In the spell section there's explicit mention of beguilers not being able to add spells to their list by way of feats or traits. Does "traits" reference only the specific traits subsystem or was it meant to also include things like the Samsaran alternate racial trait mystic past life?
Yes, it's meant to include things like mystic past life.
Order of the Morithil Pier Glass was written without consideration for newer abilities like hidden signs and muddling aegis. Those two abilities have been replaced by Quick Draw as a bonus feat and thrown threat which allows the beguiler to threaten the first range increment of her thrown weapons.
Theurgic Brigand has been tuned a little to continue my attempts to limit access to off-list spells. Stolen knowledge has been replaced with beguiling knowledge (bardic knowledge) to enhance the Theurgic Brigand's mastery over skills and to further reducing their dependence on Intelligence.
I've seen people talking about your conversion for months now on 4chan and finally took the time to check it out since the old WotC beguiler would be a good fit for a game I'm going to be jumping into. Let me first say that this is absolutely gorgeous. Everything about the look of the conversion screams quality. It looks great and has tons of options.
The one complaint I have is less of a mark against your conversion and more of a mark against the system and how it deals with social skills. Skills like disguise, diplomacy, bluff, intimidate and spellcraft all feel like they should be a core part of a beguiler's milieu but because they key off of charisma, they really feel sidelined on the beguiler unless I end up taking a charisma-casting archetype. Sure I can take traits to switch out one or two of these, but certainly not all of them. Is there anything that could be done to help the beguiler with these options that doesn't result in needing to pump a second, otherwise useless mental stat?
I agree with Arakhor here, if you want to be SAD you need to work for it. I've often used Cha as a balancing stat for things like order powers. If you want Cha-based skills to trigger off of Int, there are traits for that. I will say that one place I do feel this kind of approach could be an interesting new feature for the beguiler is for opposed checks (convincing a charmed creature to do something it normally wouldn't, charming/dominating an already charmed/dominated creature, and the like). As a result, I've added a new class feature at 6th level called Calculated Coercion which does just that, the changes are in the most current main conversion document.
I was hoping to have the update for the BotIS document ready too, but that hasn't been completed yet (hopefully it'll be done soon).
Any idea on the timetable for this update? I'm curious to see what you've put together.
Still no ETA, unfortunately. I've spent most of my free time in February getting set-up for a new campaign, so I haven't had much time for the beguiler as of late.
I still wonder if treating the off hand as a free hand might be a bit too permissive. As written I could potentially two-weapon fight with a greatsword wielded in both hands and a dagger in my off hand simultaneously. That doesn't really make much sense to me.
That's a fair point, I hadn't even considered TWF and THF simultaneously. I'll edit the document to expressly forbid TWF while wielding your main hand weapon two-handed. That way you can still potentially get the benefits of abilities like the 12th level ability of the shadowgraft skirmisher's duelist form while TWF, but wouldn't be able to do silly things like fighting with a two-handed weapon and dagger at the same time.
It's that time of year again, the beguiler conversion turns 3 tomorrow! To celebrate I've uploaded an update to the main conversion document. I was hoping to have the update for the BotIS document ready too, but that hasn't been completed yet (hopefully it'll be done soon).
Updates include:
A new class feature for the beguiler: muddling aegis.
A new archetype: the order of the morithil pier glass beguiler, a unique type of sleeper agent used by the guild who can manipulate the boundaries between dimensions to grant her incredible offensive and defensive powers.
New equipment and magic items including: the horizon wrist spring, the everyman amulet, the fangs of the sun and moon, and the hungry mark.
New spells including: extradimensional alley, phantasmal conduit, viral amnesia, and viral thought.
Brief note: I'm currently uploading a small revision to the most recent update which does two things:
Clarifies the interaction between beguiler class templates and beguiler feats (i.e. a character with a beguiler class template is treated as a 1st-level beguiler for feat prerequisites). Beguiler feat prerequisites have been adjusted accordingly.
Changed the ritual blade feat into sleight of blade to make it a little more versatile for TWF beguilers. In particular, the new version of this feat allows beguilers with a light weapon in their off hand to treat it as if that had were free to open access to feats like Slashing Grace. My reasoning behind this is that TWF beguilers are already feat-taxed enough as is, so opening up their options a little more will help such builds get off the ground at reasonable levels.
It's that time of year again, the beguiler conversion turns 3 tomorrow! To celebrate I've uploaded an update to the main conversion document. I was hoping to have the update for the BotIS document ready too, but that hasn't been completed yet (hopefully it'll be done soon).
Updates include:
A new class feature for the beguiler: muddling aegis.
A new archetype: the order of the morithil pier glass beguiler, a unique type of sleeper agent used by the guild who can manipulate the boundaries between dimensions to grant her incredible offensive and defensive powers.
New equipment and magic items including: the horizon wrist spring, the everyman amulet, the fangs of the sun and moon, and the hungry mark.
New spells including: extradimensional alley, phantasmal conduit, viral amnesia, and viral thought.
Ertw, it seems like you've softened a bit on the matter of letting other classes have limited access to beguiler class features. Do you think you'd reconsider things like JammyPanda's VMC suggestion or an improved/greater eldritch heritage equivalent for guild apprenticeship?
I'll take some time to think about it, but right now I've got a few things on my plate for the beguiler conversion that are going to take precedence because I've been putting them off for too long.
Alter ego was written prior to the publication of ultimate intrigue, so even though there's a lot of overlap in the ideas of the abilities, the functions aren't really related. The original conceit of the power was for it to be less permanent than dual identity ended up becoming, but I can definitely revisit the function of alter ego in light of the vigilante.
I've updated the main conversion document with some changes to the alter ego ability.
And now, here is my first draft for the beguiler class templates:
Beguiler Class Templates: Introduction:
Variant Rule: Beguiler Class Templates
Class templates are similar to archetypes. They modify existing base classes in order to allow them to better fulfill new roles. However, class templates can be applied to multiple classes, unlike the more exclusive archetypes. A class template follows the same rules as archetypes for determining whether or not they are compatible with other archetypes or class templates. The term parent class is used hereafter to reference the class to which the template is applied. The following class templates are presented here.
Deceptive Acolyte: These cunning spellcasters find beguilers to be natural allies, a relationship that affords them access to the beguilers' expanded portfolio of magic. Empowered by divine or otherworldly forces, the deceptive acolyte is a class template for the cleric, druid, and witch classes.
Ghastly Enforcer: A basic facility with a beguiler's power makes these fearsome combatants all the more equipped to defend the guild and enforce its will when needed. The ghastly enforcer is a class template for the fighter, harbinger, and slayer classes.
Guild Envoy: Their facility with their own arcane or psionic powers have prompted the guild to impart knowledge of some important abilities to these powerful allies. The guild envoy is a class template for the arcanist, dread, and wizard.
Stygian Saboteur: Masters of the strange, shadowy alchemy practiced by beguilers, they are capable of inflicting unexpected afflictions upon their victims. The stygian saboteur is a class template for the alchemist, investigator, and rogue classes.
Trickster Operative: Wielding a limited form of the beguilers' magic, these agents of the guild are nearly as difficult to pin down as a beguiler. The trickster operative is a class template for the bard, rogue, and vigilante classes.
Deceptive Acolyte:
Deceptive Acolyte
Deceptive acolytes often begin their relationships with beguilers as a result of being contracted by the guild for healing services or other esoteric gifts granted by their classes. As she grows more and more trusted by the guild, a deceptive acolyte's natural penchant for deception and trickery endears her further; eventually she becomes so trusted that she is treated as a member of the guild. The fruits of this relationship is a unique fusion of the spellcasting abilities acolyte's parent class and those of her beguiler associates.
Converting Your Character to a Deceptive Acolyte
The deceptive acolyte is a class template suitable for use with the cleric, druid, and witch classes. When converting a character to a deceptive acolyte, the character loses or changes the following class features.
Cleric
The cleric chooses only one domain rather than the normal two domains.
The cleric gives up the increase to channel energy gained at 3rd, 9th, and 15th levels.
Druid
The druid may not choose an animal companion as part of the nature bond class feature, instead she must choose a domain.
The druid gives up the ability to spontaneously cast summon nature's ally spells.
The druid gains the wild shape ability at 6th level and gains all benefits related to wild shape 2 druid levels later than usual. She can never use wild shape to transform into an elemental.
Witch
The witch gives up the familiar class feature.
The witch gives up the hexes gained at 4th, 10th, and 16th levels.
Beguiling Casting: Instead of preparing her spells, a deceptive acolyte is a spontaneous spellcaster. She knows the same number of spells, and receives the same number of spell slots per day as an oracle of her parent class level. She can select her known spells from both her parent class' spell list as well as the beguiler spell list. Bonus spells granted by the deceptive acolyte's domain or patron are added to her total spells known at the appropriate levels. She uses her Charisma score instead of her Wisdom or Intelligence score as her key spellcasting ability score (to determine her spell DCs, bonus spells per day, concentration checks, and so on).
Two-Faced Patron: A deceptive acolyte gains the patronage of some mysterious, deceptive force, be it divine or otherworldly. A cleric or druid deceptive acolyte must chose the trickery domain, even if it is not typically part of her deity's portfolio; if it is part of her deity's portfolio, she can instead select a relevant subdomain of the trickery domain. A witch deceptive acolyte must choose either the deception or trickery patron.
Ghastly Enforcer:
Ghastly Enforcer
Often beginning their relationship with the beguilers as hired muscle or guards, ghastly enforcers eventually earn sufficient trust to be welcomed as nominal members of the guild itself. They train under their choice of the guild's orders and even develop a basic understanding of the beguilers' magic, all while maintaining their unique martial talents. This blend of arcane proficiency and combat mastery make a ghastly enforcer a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield and in the dark corners of city streets alike.
Converting Your Character to a Ghastly Enforcer
The ghastly enforcer is a class template suitable for use with the fighter, harbinger, and slayer classes. When converting a character to a ghastly enforcer, the character loses or changes the following class features.
Fighter
The fighter gives up proficiency with medium and heavy armour, as well as with any kind of shield.
The fighter gives up the armour training class feature.
The fighter gives up the bonus feats gained at 4th, 10th, and 16th levels.
Harbinger
The harbinger gives up proficiency with any kind of shield.
The harbinger gives up the accursed will, sorcerous deception, and bleak prophecy class features.
Slayer
The slayer gives up proficiency with medium armour, as well as with any kind of shield.
The slayer gives up the track, stalker, and swift tracker class features.
The slayer gives up the slayer talents gained at 4th, 10th, and 16th levels.
Class Skills: A ghastly enforcer gains Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft as class skills.
Ciphered Tome: At 4th level, a ghastly enforcer is given a tome which contains an encoded introduction to beguiler spellcasting. This tome contains knowledge of all 1st through 4th level spells on the beguiler spell list, however its secrets are jealously guarded; the spells and rituals contained within are hidden under layers of ciphers written in long forgotten languages. Unlike a wizard's spellbook, the spells contained within this tome cannot be added to another spellcaster's spellbook, nor can they be decyphered by any creature without beguiler or ghastly enforcer levels (even with the aid of the read magic spell). Furthermore, the ghastly enforcer lacks the general arcane knowledge to add spells from other spellbooks to her tome.
This tome grants a ghastly enforcer the ability to prepare and cast the arcane spells contained within her tome. A ghastly enforcer must choose and prepare her spells in advance. She does not suffer the normal arcane spell failure chance while wearing light armour. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a ghastly enforcer wearing medium armour, heavy armour, or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass ghastly enforcer still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
To prepare or cast a spell, a ghastly enforcer must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a ghastly enforcer's spell is 10 + the spell level + the ghastly enforcer's Intelligence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a ghastly enforcer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is the same as the paladin class. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score (see Table: 1-3: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells in the Core Rulebook). When Table: 3-11: Paladin in the Core Rulebook indicates that the ghastly enforcer gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on her Intelligence score for that spell level.
A ghastly enforcer must get 8 hours of sleep and spend 1 hour studying her tome in order to prepare her daily allotment of spells. While studying, the ghastly enforcer decides which spells to prepare. If a ghastly enforcer's tome is lost or destroyed, she cannot prepare her spells; however she can request a replacement tome from the guild after paying a 500 gp fine.
Order Initiate: At 4th level, a ghastly enforcer selects one of the orders available to beguilers; she gains her chosen order's 1st level order power. At 10th level she gains her chosen order's 7th level order power, and at 16th level she gains her chosen order's 13th level order power.
For all powers gained through this ability, treat her effective beguiler level as her parent class level - 3. If she already has beguiler levels, or subsequently gains beguiler levels, she must select the same order for both classes. Levels of beguiler stack with her effective beguiler level for the purposes of determining order powers, but not for order spells.
Guild Envoy:
Guild Envoy
Lauded for their mastery of the arcane or psionic arts, guild envoys are allowed to glimpse the beguiling arts in return for their services as intermediaries between the beguilers' guild and more reputable organizations. So trusted are these allies that they are deemed worthy to access even the most powerful and obscure beguiler spells. Furthermore, the guild envoys are instructed in some of the guild's most potent abilities relating to the craft of arcane misdirection, potentially making them even more powerful than their beguiler counterparts.
Converting Your Character to a Guild Envoy
The guild envoy is a class template suitable for use with the arcanist, dread, and wizard classes. When converting a character to a guild envoy, the character loses or changes the following class features.
Arcanist
The arcanist's arcane reservoir can only hold a maximum amount of magical energy equal to 3 + 1/2 her arcanist level.
The arcanist gives up the exploits gained at 1st, 5th, and 7th levels.
Dread
The dread gives up the terrors gained at 2nd, and 8th levels.
The dread gives up the bonus feat gained at 5th level.
Wizard
The wizard must choose one additional opposition school, even if he is a universalist. She cannot pick enchantment or illusion as an opposition school.
The wizard gives up the scribe scroll class feature.
The wizard gives up the bonus feat gained at 5th level.
Beguiling Arcana: At 1st level, a guild envoy is granted access to the beguilers' stable of spells. An arcanist or wizard guild envoy adds all spells from the beguiler spell list to her parent class' spell list. She automatically adds the shadowy heist spell to her spellbook. She still incurs the normal chance of spell failure when she casts a spell with somatic components while wearing armour of any kind.
A dread guild envoy gains the ability to cast the shadowy heist spell at will as a spell-like ability as long as she has at least 1 power point available. At 2nd level, and every three guild envoy levels thereafter, she learns a single spell from the beguiler spell list. The guild envoy can also choose to forgo learning a new dread power in order to learn a new spell from the beguiler spell list. She cannot learn a spell whose level exceeds her maximum power level known. The guild envoy can cast any spell she knows by expending a number of power points equal to the spell's level; she cannot modify these spells by way of metamagic, and she must still provide any components required by the spell. The guild envoy treats her dread level as her caster level for these spells, and she uses her Charisma score as her key spellcasting ability score (to determine her spell DCs, concentration checks, and so on). She does not suffer the normal arcane spell failure chance while wearing light armour. Like any other arcane spellcaster, the guild envoy wearing medium armour, heavy armour, or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass dread guild envoy still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Deceptive Spellcasting (Ex): At 1st level, a guild envoy gains the beguiler's surprise casting class feature. At 2nd level, she gains the beguiler's cloaked casting class feature. For the purposes of both abilities she treats her effective beguiler level as her parent class level. An arcanist or wizard guild envoy applies the benefits of these abilities to all spells on her spell list, not just spells that appear on the beguiler spell list. A dread guild envoy applies the benefits of these abilities to her powers as well as her spells.
Artful Invocation (Ex): At 7th level, a guild envoy gains the artful invocation order power, but can only apply its effects to spells appearing on the beguiler spell list.
Stygian Saboteur:
Stygian Saboteur
Known for their mysterious mastery of the alchemical mixtures of the shadow realm, stygian saboteurs are greatly sought out by a variety of groups. Foremost among these are the beguilers' guilds which have weaponized their discoveries to great effect. Whether motivated by greed, a lust for power, or pure scientific curiosity, the guild ensures that the desires of a stygian saboteur in their employ are indulged.
Converting Your Character to a Stygian Saboteur
The stygian saboteur is a class template suitable for use with the alchemist, investigator, and rogue classes. When converting a character to a stygian saboteur, the character loses or changes the following class features.
Alchemist
The alchemist's bomb class feature is supplemented by the stygian bomb ability.
The alchemist gives up the discoveries gained at 2nd, 6th, and 8th levels.
Investigator
The investigator gives up the studied strike class feature.
The investigator gives up the investigator talents gained at 3rd, 7th, and 9th levels.
Rogue
The rogue gives up the sneak attack class feature.
The rogue gives up the rogue talents gained at 2nd, 6th, and 8th levels.
Stygian Bomb (Su): A stygian saboteur gains the ability to mix potent alchemical bombs energized by raw shadowstuff. This ability acts identically to the alchemist's bomb class feature with the following alterations. She uses d8s to roll bomb damage instead of d6s, and the damage dealt is equally divided between cold and electricity damage (if an odd amount of damage is dealt, the extra damage is always electricity damage) instead of fire damage. The splash damage from the stygian saboteur's bombs deals electricity damage instead of fire damage. A stygian bomb cannot be altered by an alchemist discovery that alters the bomb's damage die used or its damage type (e.g. concussive bomb).
An alchemist or rogue stygian saboteur gains this ability at 1st level and treats her effective alchemist level as her parent class level, while an investigator stygian saboteur gains this ability at 2nd level and treats her effective alchemist level as her parent class level - 1.
Throw Anything (Ex): An investigator or rogue stygian saboteur can choose to forgo gaining an investigator or rogue talent in order to gain the alchemist's throw anything class feature.
Witchfire Catalyst (Su): When a stygian saboteur's effective alchemist level reaches 2nd, she gains the ability to forgo all cold damage from her stygian bomb to empower it with the effects of a flask of witchfire essence. This includes direct hit damage, splash damage, and the risk of catching on fire.
Obedient Ordinance (Su): When a stygian saboteur's effective alchemist level reaches 6th, she gains the ability to forgo all cold damage from her stygian bomb to empower it with the effects of a dose of writ of obedience. This only affects the victim of a direct hit, not those who take the bomb's splash damage. The DC of the Fortitude save to resist these effects is equal to 10 + 1/2 the stygian saboetuer's effective alchemist level + her Intelligence modifier.
Shatterglass Precipitate (Su): When a stygian saboteur's effective alchemist level reaches 8th, she gains the ability to forgo all cold damage from her stygian bomb to empower it with a limited form of the effects of a phial of shatterglass crystals. This fills a volume within a radius of 5 ft. with a shatterglass cloud which lasts for 4 rounds (although a moderate or strong wind will disperse it in 1 round). The DC of the Fortitude save to prevent blindness is equal to 10 + 1/2 the stygian saboetuer's effective alchemist level + her Intelligence modifier.
Trickster Operative:
Trickster Operative
The relationship between trickster operatives and the beguilers' guild is a complex one. The guild realizes that they are often being used to further an operative's ends, and the operatives realize that the guild will occasionally use them as disposable assets. Still, these parties have developed a mutually beneficial understanding which grants the trickster operative limited access to the beguilers' powers.
Converting Your Character to a Trickster Operative
The trickster operative is a class template suitable for use with the bard, rogue, and vigilante classes. When converting a character to a trickster operative, the character loses or changes the following class features.
Bard
The bard only gains 4 skill ranks (plus a number of ranks equal to her Intelligence modifier) at each level.
The bard gives up proficiency with any kind of shield.
The bard's spellcasting abilities are altered as discussed below.
The bard gives up the bardic knowledge, versatile performance, and lore master class features.
The bard gains the bardic performance ability at 3rd level and gains all benefits related to bardic performance 2 bard levels later than usual.
Rogue
The rogue only gains 4 skill ranks (plus a number of ranks equal to her Intelligence modifier) at each level.
The rogue gives up the trapfinding, trap sense, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge class features.
The rogue gives up the rogue talents gained at 2nd, and 12th levels.
The rogue gains the sneak attack ability at 3rd level and her sneak attack damage increases every four rogue levels thereafter.
Vigilante
The vigilante only gains 4 skill ranks (plus a number of ranks equal to her Intelligence modifier) at each level.
The vigilante gives up proficiency with medium armour, as well as with any kind of shield.
The vigilante gives up the vigilante specialization, and unshakable class features.
The vigilante gives up the vigilante talents at 2nd, 4th, 8th, and 12th levels.
Class Skills: A trickster operative gains Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft as class skills.
Spellcasting: A trickster operative learns and casts arcane spells and cantrips as a bard. Unlike the bard, a trickster operative uses her Intelligence score instead of her Charisma score as her key spellcasting ability score (to determine her spell DCs, bonus spells per day, concentration checks, and so on); furthermore, her spells do not all have verbal components and she can modify her spells with the Silent Spell metamagic feat. The trickster operative chooses her known spells from the 6th-level and lower spells from the beguiler spell list; higher-level spells are not on her spell list. A bard trickster operative also retains access to the bard spell list.
A trickster operative does not suffer the normal arcane spell failure chance while wearing light armour. Like any other arcane spellcaster, she incurs a chance of arcane spell failure while wearing medium armour, heavy armour, or a shield if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass trickster operative still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Warlock Talents: A vigilante trickster operative gains access to all vigilante talents granted to the warlock archetype, in addition to general vigilante talents.
Stygian Step (Su): At 1st level, a trickster operative gains the stygian step order power, treating her effective beguiler level as her parent class level.
Improved Feint: At 2nd level, a trickster operative gains the beguiler's improved feint class feature.
Hidden Signs (Ex): At 3rd level, a trickster operative gains the beguiler's hidden signs class feature.
Uncanny Training: Beginning at 4th level, a rogue trickster operative can forgo learning a new rogue talent to gain the uncanny dodge class feature. Beginning at 12th level, if the trickster operative possesses the uncanny dodge class feature, she can forgo learning a new advanced talent to gain the improved uncanny dodge class feature.
Sneak Attack (Ex): At 5th level, a bard or vigilante trickster operative gains sneak attack +1d6. This functions as the rogue sneak attack ability. This bonus increases by +1d6 ever five levels after 5th. If she gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.
Swift Feint (Ex): At 13th level, a trickster operative gains the beguiler's swift feint class feature.
Deceptive Acolyte: These cunning spellcasters find beguilers to be natural allies, a relationship that affords them access to the beguilers' expanded portfolio of magic. Empowered by divine or otherworldly forces, the deceptive acolyte is a class template for the cleric, druid, and witch classes.
Ghastly Enforcer: A basic facility with a beguiler's power makes these fearsome combatants all the more equipped to defend the guild and enforce its will when needed. The ghastly enforcer is a class template for the fighter, harbinger, and slayer classes.
Guild Envoy: Their facility with their own arcane or psionic powers have prompted the guild to impart knowledge of some important abilities to these powerful allies. The guild envoy is a class template for the arcanist, dread, and wizard.
Stygian Saboteur: Masters of the strange, shadowy alchemy practiced by beguilers, they are capable of inflicting unexpected afflictions upon their victims. The stygian saboteur is a class template for the alchemist, investigator, and rogue classes.
Trickster Operative: Wielding a limited form of the beguilers' magic, these agents of the guild are nearly as difficult to pin down as a beguiler. The trickster operative is a class template for the bard, rogue, and vigilante classes.
I'm on the fence about these options. I'm not super familiar with the psionics and Path of War subsystems, so it might be hard for me to balance. I'm also a little wary of building around other third party properties; some players may have trouble convincing their GMs to allow the beguiler because it's homebrew and adding other 3PPs into the mix won't necessarily make it easier. I'll still keep it in mind, but I won't guarantee anything.
As long as you're posting ideas here or playtesting them, I think plenty of people would be willing to help you with any balance concerns you have. As for stacking homebrew and 3PPs, as long as it's an optional rule and not an integral part of the conversion I don't think many people would have problems just saying yes to the beguiler but no to the initiating or manifesting options (or even no to the whole template system).
I suppose you're right. As I said, I'll keep an open mind about it.
Definitely the slayer and rogue. You could use the stygian slayer and eldritch scoundrel archetypes as a base as both are pretty interesting ideas that were IMHO poorly executed. Features would definitely include spellcasting (4th level casting for slayer, 6th level casting for rogue) and maybe access to order powers coming into effect at a reduced rate.
SylverFox wrote:
I agree these two definitely need to be in there. IIRC I suggested a potential slayer archetype in this thread a while ago, but nothing ever came of it.
Slayer and rogue are 100% on the list acting as enforcers and agents for the guild.
SylverFox wrote:
As for other options that might be less obvious: an alchemist/investigator archetype could be pretty interesting, you could do something with another arcane class to teach them some of your beguiler tricks (though you might want to stay away from spontaneous casters since their innate magic might be hard to gel with beguiler training and modification), mesmerist seems like an obvious one.
I do have some thoughts for wizard and cleric options. Alchemist is one I hadn't considered. I'll have to think on the best way to incorporate that idea. Mesmerist I'm not crazy about simply because of the tendency for overlap between the two classes.
JHeats wrote:
SylverFox wrote:
If you're willing to go more afield into DSP's portfolio, I'd love to see your take on a beguiler inspired dread, harbinger or stalker.
F%&* yes, I'd love to see psionic or initiating beguilers.
I'm on the fence about these options. I'm not super familiar with the psionics and Path of War subsystems, so it might be hard for me to balance. I'm also a little wary of building around other third party properties; some players may have trouble convincing their GMs to allow the beguiler because it's homebrew and adding other 3PPs into the mix won't necessarily make it easier. I'll still keep it in mind, but I won't guarantee anything.
Alright I've uploaded a new version of the conversion document that adds the following to the writ of obedience's description:
Quote:
While this substance acts like a poison in many ways, it is not affected by any abilities relating to poisons and their use.
On another subject: I've been considering adding a series of templates akin to those from Path of War to the variant rules section to give beguiler-like options to existing classes. I have a vague idea of which classes I'd like to include, but I'd like some input from people here:
What kind of classes would you like to see get some beguiler-like options? What kind of options/features would you like to see exported in this way?
Pidgin adept seems super situational. I don't think those situations would come up often enough to justify taking it, especially since a Theurgic Brigand can take the tongues spell.
Thanks for you comments. I see your point about pidgin adept being situational, but there are probably campaigns (like the type SylverFox mentioned) where it'd be useful. I figured that it doesn't hurt to have it as an option for those who want a less spell-based or supernatural type of linguistic facility.
