drgnmstr44's page

My Hell's Rebels game is using a lot from this book, including bonus progression. I have a problem with how it's written as it seems to penalize players. normally, any weapon or armor can have a total of +10 magical bonuses to it with no more than +5 of those being enhancement bonuses. the other +5 can be weapon/armor special qualities. however, if using the bonus progression everything is limited to a total of +5. While on the surface this seems ok because you can apply the enhancement bonus via attunement; it's actually a hindrance and a cheat to the players.

Verbatim from the book:

"In this system, magic weapons, armor, and shields never have
enhancement bonuses of their own; those bonuses are granted
only through attunement. Any weapon, armor, or shield
special abilities on attuned items count against a character’s
enhancement bonus from attunement. To determine an
attuned magic item’s enhancement bonus, subtract the cost
of its special ability from the enhancement bonus granted by
attunement. (This applies only to special abilities whose cost
is equivalent to an enhancement bonus, not to those that cost
a f lat amount of gold pieces.) For example, if a character with
a +3 enhancement bonus from weapon attunement wields a
keen scimitar, she subtracts 1 point of her enhancement bonus
(for the cost of keen), leaving her with a +2 keen scimitar. If a
character doesn’t have enough of an enhancement bonus to
afford the special ability (such as a 4th-level character with a
vorpal longsword), she can still use the weapon’s power on its
own, but the weapon gains no enhancement bonus."

Now I understand this seems like it's being done due to cost, this is not legal for society play. so why hurt a players that want to use this system in this manner? it seems like this system is a waste and the only thing you gain from is is not loosing certain slots for magic items to gear people always take; rings or protection, cloaks of resistance, belts of physical stat enhancement, headbands of mental stat enhancement, amulets of natural armor. So players get versatility in 5 magic slots but must give up being able to have a +5 enhancement bonus on an item that already has +5 special bonuses on it. seems really stupid and not very enticing to use. I think you should review and update

I ran this yesterday for a group of 5; Cleric of Zon Kuthon level 10, Barbarian with Technologist feat level 10, Kinetecist level 11, and two level 7 pregens - gunslinger and Slayer. The players seemed to really enjoy this a lot. I caught myself missing a development part once after a haunt and didn't miss the others even with the extensive preping I did. They played upper tier 4 player adjustment. Players really loved the story being told and interacting with the AI core. some were wierded out that a barbarian understood and explained all the tech they came across, due to the feat and him having the tech guide, which I think added to the enjoyment.

ran into a couple issues. the party did not successfully impress the chieftain, so no ghost wolves lead them to the gulch. that didn't slow the party down and they got there in the same time. the optional encounter left me confused as to whether it should happen or not if the ghost wolves don't travel with the party. they ran out of time so the encounter didn't happen but if there was time, should it happen? Judging by the way the scenario reads, it sounded to me like the ghost wolves show up anyway regardless of whether the chieftain was impressed or not. However do they not show up at all if the group fails to impress the chieftain?

Something that bothered me as a GM was the kinetic blasts being used to destroy the cameras to deal with haunts. He was able to throw adamantine rocks which bypass hardness and with minimum damage of 48 it's basically hit AC 10 and you destroy things. while this worked out well for neutralizing the haunts before manifesting, more on that to follow, it was very hard to figure out if the party completed the SCC because too much destruction of the tech fails one of the four conditions you need three of. I felt the group already failed the first by not impressing the chieftain but didn't fight the ghost wolves either due to time. They got the next two but the destruction of the tech was a little difficult. I ended up giving them a pass on that one since while they destroyed 6 cameras and disabled some monitors, they over charged the system properly but left the core in area C^ intact by using a spell to command the shade to accept death and receive phrasama's judgement (shade failed the will save). how would other treat that?

One last note, after the adventure I consulted with some others. We agreed that the Delay listed for the haunts means it does not manifest in the surprise round. That was my thought after asking here initially so that's how I did it. Seeing the haunts in action that way, I think that is the intent. other wise you only get a move or standard action in the surprise round and if you aren't already near a camera or monitor to disable it, you're destroying things.

All and all, with proper time to prep, there is plenty of time for the PC's to interact and role play here with the NPC's. Bringing the AI core to life by using the information provided in the scenario kept the group engaged and moving along. I can't say anything about the combat encounter in C6 since that didn't happen but I enjoyed running this and my players enjoyed playing it.

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it a lot as it helps me understand that scenario and be able to run it for my group so they understand what's happening. Haunts I've had problems in the past running them right so people knew what it wasays, so I've avoided running those scenarios. I'm actually looking forward to this one and the info everyone provided will really help me out a lot. So thanks for the assist.

One last thing I bumped into, how does the AI core the players can find effect these or interact with the shade? I got to about page 19 or so in the scenario before turning in for the evening. Is that explained in the encounter other shortly after that point?

It's a really good story you wrote. I hope my players enjoy it as much as I did reading it.

ugh.... two books that I don't have rules on. that makes it more difficult to run the haunts. The blurb at the bottom of the index page for GM resources doesn't mention those books at all. The Gamemastery Guide also doesn't discuss some of the things on the haunts either. that should be updated I think. On that note:

My understanding of haunts is they act on initiative 10 in the suprise round. any player that notices the haunt act in the surprise round. I know they can be damaged with positive energy or haunt siphons. if you do enough damage to it, it can't manifest and must wait the reset period. Haunt siphons also cause the check to reset to be made at -10. That's my basic understanding.

Specific questions because I want to run this right for my players and I do not have Occult Adventures or Horror Adventures:

How does Delay effect the haunts? If the haunt has delay 1 round, does that mean it doesn't manifest in the surprise round but 1 round later?

What about Slow? I'm guessing that simple means it happens on initiative 0 but I'm not certain.

The haunt in C2 is really confusing. As I read it, the haunt possesses one of the players and has that player attack the others. Does it get full use of character abilities, like spells, barbarian rage, kinetic blast, things like that? Also this haunt in the module doesn't state it's a fast haunt but does tell me initiative 20 for it doing things. maybe a misprint

Finally my initial questions were around the Haunt from encounter C5. After reading the blurb in the PRD about radiation effects, I believe the intent here is the effect only happens once, when the haunt manifests.

Basically for the haunts in this one that's pretty much it for questions to help understand them better.

On a side note, I think on Page 5, the knowledge local check if for Kellids and Ghost wolves in the first paragraph. It states the same as the first paragraph under knowledge Geography above it on the same page.

All and all, this looks like a really fun scenario. I'm both excited to run it for my players and a little worried about running it correctly. If someone can answer my question on the haunts, that will help me run it right. thanks in advance

So I have a question about the haunt. I'm terrible at running them. Is t he haunt persistent? When it manifests, does its effect only happen once and that's it or does it happen every round on initiative 10?

** spoiler omitted **

Thanks John for that list. it will save me prep time. Still waiting to it to appear in my downloads but at least I know what to go dig out and pick up for maps

I've been running games for a bit, both society and adventure paths. I know how to get GM stars and that they can be used to gain an additional credit for scenario or module for either running or playing beyond the limit of 1 for playing and 1 for running. I know doing so uses the GM star. Until recently, I didn't know there was a way to get them back. I have been informed that through the expanded Narrative a GM can recharge his or her starts that have been spent. I've also been informed this season it was made available to everyone but I can't find it anywhere. Leads me to questions and issues with a better suggestion for recharging.

Question 1: It that actually available to everyone or only to those lucky enough to go to PaizoCon or Gen Con?

Question follow up: If it is available for everyone to get, where can I get it?

Thoughts:
If only available for making it to one of those conventions or only at conventions for that matter, that feels to me to be elitist. It should be available to everyone and not just those you have the money and time to make conventions. Again this is a thought based on the fact I have heard an unconfirmed rumor and searching on this sit for that thing has proven futile.

Recommendation:
Instead of a boon that's hard to get, why not change it so that everyone's stars recharge at the start of every Pathfinder Society season. They are good to replay for that year any scenario you wanted to replay. At the start of the next season, they will recharge again to be used automatically. Lots of people like to play and lots like to run games. so instead of only those lucky enough to get a boon at a convention or figure out where to download it or receive it through other means, why not change how recharge works so everyone benefits from it in an easier way

I've had this question come up a lot in games i'm running and playing in. i'm finding it difficult to have a clear answer on it. For games that aren't PFS, we leave it up to the GM however the issue has shown up in some of the PFS games I run and I'm not certain on rules as written for this. So I figured I'd start a thread on it and since I think pictures are better than text, i'm providing links to pictures on my google drive folder to help get some answers. It's going to be a long post covering different situations.

So the question is how does soft cover apply to combat with a ranged character, a melee character that has 10' reach, and Kineticist's kinetic blast? playing into this is the feats precise shot and point blank shot.

What I know:

Soft cover provides a +4 bonus to AC to the creature that has soft cover. This can be a low wall or another creature in the line of sight

When attacking with a ranged weapon onto melee, you take a minus 4 on the attack unless you have both precise shot and point blank shot. That is pretty easy to figure out and applies to all lines of sight from the character to the target.

So how do the two work together.

Example Image 1

In the picture, Valeros is in melee with the monster. Shalelu has out her longbow and wishes to attack the monster. The map is a wide open flat grassland with no obstecles. Shalelu does not have the required feats for firing into melee so from all possible lines of sight to the monster she takes a -4 to hit. This first question is what happens when she is attacking from the positions in the picture. Valeros, by rule provides soft cover to the monster but isn't that already taken into account with the -4 penalty to attack?

My thought here is that the -4 to attack is the same as the +4 AC from soft cover.

Follow up for this scenario, if Shalelu had both point blank shot and precise shot does the monster still get +4 AC from soft cover provided by Valeros?

My thought here is no becuase the -4 to attack is the same as +4 AC from soft cover and precise shot states is removed the -4 to attack with a ranged weapon into melee.

What do rules as written state on this? is it without the feats, Shalelu take a -4 on the attack and the monster get +4 AC when lined up like this and with the feats it's just the +4 AC?

Example 2

This one deals with melee and soft cover. Shalelu is on the opposite side of the monster. I know from here with out point blank shot and precise shot, she takes a -4 penality on attack rolls with her bow. The question this time is about the blonde character, a fighter with a reach weapon like a glaive or a dwarven longhammer. how do the attacks or AC get modified when the fighter attacks with reach and Valeros is in the square directly in front of him? does the monster get +4 AC from soft cover here?

Follow up: if the fighter with reach was in the square above here he is in Example 2, does the monster have soft cover from his attacks still?

Finally, I'm thinking these rulings while dealing with martial weapons also apply to spells that require ranged touch attack and abilities that require a ranged touch attack, i.e. scorching Ray or kinetic blast. how does the soft cover and firing into melee work for those types of attacks? is it the same as above or different because they are spells or class abilities.

If you can't see the pictures in the links, let me know so I can try to fix that.

So while at GenCon this year, I was in a Q&A session with the Pathfinder Design Team and asked a very similar question.

Their response to me was that they plan on making most, if not all, future monk archetypes both Unchained- and classic-monk simultaneously compatible.

In terms of classic monk archetypes, they had no foreseeable plans of going back to retrofit classic monk archetypes into Unchained-compatible ones. Jason Bulmahn explained that you technically still could take classic monk archetypes as an Unchained monk, replacing Unchained class features at the levels indicated by the classic archetype's features, but it wouldn't be nearly as clean, wouldn't work in all cases, nor would it be legal in PFS.

Needless to say, I was a little bummed at that latter response.

This is a shame really. Why play unchained monk if you aren't going to take the time to retrofit the previous archetypes. it basically removes choices from players. Rather sad.

So gauntlets do not count toward shielded gauntlet style. it specifically states weapon focus (spiked gauntlet).

Gauntlets part of armor can be enchanted but only with Armor enhancements, meaning they do not provide bonuses for attacking.

spiked gauntlets are different because they are actually weapons. so they get weapon enhancements added to them at the weapon enhancement cost.

If you wanted to enchant gauntlets for attack and damage, you'd need amulet of mighty fists with the things you want. That would NOT translate to spiked gauntlets.

If gauntlet lets you unarmed strike, you'd provoke AofO unless you had improved unarmed strike if you hit with it.

here again we have another instance of scenario writers putting NPCs together and not even validating them correctly against the rules. Zeeva's stat block is incorrect according to rules and errata.

At the top of the block is says she has a perception of +2 then in the skills section it's +8. Well which is it? she can't get to 8. her familar only add +2 with with in arms reach per the alertness bonus feat granted under that condition. it's not a class skill for witch either and with here wisdom score of 10, she could at most have a +6 in the skill.

Maybe I'm just being picky but when we are supposed to run rules as written and your guys can't even follow the rules as written, that seems like a double standard to me. I know when this conflict happens, scenario trumps, but would it really hurt to do some actual proper editing and scrubbing to ensure these things don't happen.

Don't get me wrong, i think this will be an awesome scenario to run, which I'm doing tomorrow. I just wish you guys would do some proper editing and ensure things are correct.

This is a nice list. I've had people show up to play that don't have a deck and never played and as the Venture Agent for my game store, I try to have all the decks available to use. So I have two requests.

1: rename the thread to Pre-Gen list for Card Guild Organized play so it's generic enough to cover all of them.

2: Add ALL of the pre-gens for the class decks. Right now they are spread out over multiple places, including this thread. It would be extremely helpful if they were all centralized into one location. This Sticky Thread seems best.

If a player finishes part 3, having not played parts 1 and 2 before that, but later plays parts 1 and 2, do they then retroactively qualify for the Delvehaven Star boon?

I have the same question but really only see on response on this. It's supposed to be as written so I would guess if you didn't do the other parts you don't qualify.

My question on this is one step further in clarification, Do you have to complete parts 1 and 2 before doing this and must those chronicles be on the same character to earn credit?

Would be nice to get some paizo insight on this. I've had GM's not cross this off for people that did not play the other two parts and others that left it available. Can we as GM's leave it available if parts 1 and 2 are not completed but make a note on the chronicle sheet that this requires all three parts on the same character to be available along with which parts the player has not done?

I would view taking a spell to get one cure for the deck as beneficial. In some of the games I've played that one spell is the difference between finishing or dieing. I took it for my rogue deck specifically for the cure. I believed it was to mimic use magic device.

I find it odd though and felt it wasn't completely correct. However having looked through it I believe taking the spell card feat early like that would be bad since all three monks have much better choices.

Yes I use it for organized play. I run the card guild organized play at my shop for my area. It just seems broken to me for OP. If not broken, certainly removes choice. Granted I don't know why you would want to pick a spell type card feat when all three monks works best with the blessing feat. It feels odd to not have at least 1 card of the relevant types and levels in the deck.

Out of curiosity, how does one use these decks in a non organized play manner?

This seems like the place to ask: Why didn't you include Spells for levels B, 1 and 2. two of the cards have a choice for earning spells as a card feat. This removes choices from the player. so how did this mistake get past quality control?

And before someone says you don't have the revelent skills to recharge or use them, you can always banish the spell and get it back at the end. so there should have at lease been a spell B in the deck.

This class deck is broken. Way to go designers. 2 of the monks part of this deck can use spells. granted they must buy it with a card feat but they can still get spells. Take a guess what they forgot to ad to the deck? Spells for B, 1 and 2 levels. That's right. you can take spell as your first card feat and have an illegal deck because the developers didn't bother to ensure that there would be spells that can be used. You can't recharge them yet but you can still have them.

Good job on design and quality control. did you bother to play test this either? I'm just curious how a glaring and obvious problem got missed.

I'd like to know when this product is actually going to be available. It states it's available and has stated such since the beginning of September when I ordered it yet it is still pending and a lot of people I've talked to say it's not out. Even my card guild venture lieutenant doesn't have it.

So is this product ACTUALLY available or are is paizo just screwing with everyone?

I had this question too because it is a concern. Some things I think need to be considered.

If you leave it at after completing adventure three, then anyone deciding to tier up at card feat, could loose out of the role card till they complete adventure 3. On average, each character has 4 power feats to chose from with out a role card. if they moved to tier 5 at card feat 4 with out completing adventure 3, there are two problems: 1) they are out of power feats to choose so their 2nd in tier for tier 5 and tier 6 becomes no reward for them; 2) because of the rules in the guild to organized play, they can never complete adventure 3 once they are tier 5 as you can only play up or down 1 pack.

Under the old system, it was complete adventure 3. that allowed you to have it for half the adventure when power feats were given out on scenario rewards. We converted to a tier system so if you completed up and including the 3rd adventure in season of shackles, you'd convert to Tier 4 with a role card.

I think it makes sense to allow someone to get the card when making tier 4. that is about halfway through the adventure path. Since you can only ever get to Tier 8 at the max and that requires playing through a second adventure set that is different, I think Tier 4 makes sense.

Maybe a clarification is completing adventure 3 or reaching Tier 4, which ever happens first. If you're going to choose one or the other, then Tier 4 is the way to go as that is the way we are tracking characters levels. Based on tiers rewards alone, you can get at most 4 more power feats from Tier 4 and beyond.

Wonderful. Appreciate the fast responses. I did remove my belt of dexterity which is item 3. I'm running these at my local game shop and wanted to make sure I understood the rules before overseeing others.

OK this is a two part question. I'll start simple.

According to what I read in the current guide, it sounds like after the first scenario completed in tier you get a skill feat, after two you get a power feat, after 4 you get a card feat and the choice to tier up giving you the die bump. Is that accurate understanding? I wasn't sure since the example and the guide didn't seem to explicitly tell me this.

Second question involves converting characters to tier system. My rogue completed season 0-1 adventure so I know I'm tier 2 with a skil, power, and card feat. I played completed 0-2c and 0-3a but didn't get to finish those adventures. So I have two completed in tier still. Does that mean I get a skill and power feat under the tier system, giving me 2 skill feats, 2 power feats, 1 card feat and 1 die bump?

I suppose that makes sense, Andrew. It gives me couple concerns I'll discuss in a separate thread later so as not to derail this topic further.

On topic, I like the idea but where should the lower limit fall? I was thinking maybe scenario level minus 2. So for scenarios in part 3 the range would be 1 to 3 available for random pulls. It limits the available cards but still doesn't guarantee you get a level 3 card.

Ok that post you linked is interesting, however it's not quoting rules either. I did pull my guild to organized play out and it does seem to state that I'm wrong. (page 7 of the guide).

However this brings up something I have to question. If we are not meant to have a history of items acquired, then why is a check list for the character decks included with the PDFs of the characters in the class deck? Seeing that in there makes me think we should have a history of things earned. Otherwise, Johnny is correct in that scenario rewards for random pulls from the box become worse and worse of a way to upgrade and a terrible reward. Do you get better odds at getting an upgrade that way vs randomness of locations, sure. But for a reward from level 3 and up, it's a hard pill to swallow.

Another thought here, without a pool to build from, if you banish a card from your deck to the box, you'd have to replace it in the beginning of the next scenario with a basic card, which effectively can really hurt the player. I would have thought that the inclusion of a check off list would mean track you earned rewards and you can use those to fill spots in the deck for the missing cards. Having to rebuild from basic or level 1 kind of means that there are certain things I will never take because they get banished due to lack of a skill for that character, making them completely worthless.

Given what I found this morning, I like the idea that random pulls should have a minimum limit as well as a max limit.

I'm slightly concerned with organized play's rewards from the scenarios and what that means going forward. I do understand this is the first season for OP and there are bound to be some things that need changed or tweaked. Having played through the compete Runelords Card game, and now doing season of shackles for OP, I'm really starting to wonder about the scenario rewards and how this will work going forward with Season of Righteousness.

When my group finished runelords card game (I know that wasn't OP but only thing I can compare to for the moment) We pretty much had most of the character cards filled out and powers selected. The end was still difficult but doable. With the Season of Shackles, I thought it started out ok but then paths 2 and 3 only had 4 scenarios and very little power, skill or card upgrades to be given. While random pulls for deck upgrades are nice, I think if you only give us 4 scenarios in the list we should be getting at least two of either power, skill or card upgrade. Otherwise why have all those things if only to tease people.

With Season of Righteousness coming, I'm wondering where this may be headed for those upgrades. Will I be able to take my rogue character that has played through all of the Season of Shackles and play that deck in Season of Righteousness? My initial guess here would be only the parts 5 and 6 because I would have an upgrade of <card type> 6 in my deck. Is the idea of the scenario rewards better realized when there are more seasons to use so that you could play through different scenarios part 1 for some character boosting then pay all their part 2 and so on?

I guess what I'm getting at here is what is the vision for scenario rewards? Are you considering tweaking them slightly? How will this tie into Season of Righteousness?

The main focus of this thread is rewards in Organized Play, not the standard game. Pulling a random reward in Organized Play is worth less and less as you progress, for the reasons mentioned, primarily that unlike the standard game, you're not removing Basics and Elites from your class deck.

Establishing a floor for the level of the random reward you receive in Organized Play would be a reasonable rule change.

After adventure 3, Organized Play is harder than the standard game, because most 1 and B banes are removed in one fell swoop; although admittedly, the boon drops do improve dramatically at the same time.

I agree with this. The point of Organized play shouldn't be replay the scenarios with the intent failing the scenario and just spending the 30 turns farming the locations for boons so you can upgrade. Since things get harder when the base set is asked to remove a bunch of cards, it would be harder for people with a few upgrades to be able to complete the next set of scenarios with out the farm. Maybe this is only a problem for the moment because we don't have a lot of different scenarios we can use to get upgrade rewards with out "replay"

Our group is set to tackle 0-3B this week, and the random reward presents a bit of a brow-scruncher for me.

At the beginning of the Season, the random pulls were quite likely to offer the chance for an improvement over the B-Basic cards your starting deck was composed of. As you get into the higher-level adventures (3B, 3D, 4B…), though, all those Bs you upgraded out are back in your Class Deck box, and get shuffled into your random pulls.

The chances of a high-level reward for a high-level scenario actually diminish as you go along. That doesn't seem right.

My appeal to the goddess of OP is this: how about adding a set indicator requirement to later random rewards? As in, "Each character chooses weapon or spell and gains a random card of that type (minimum set indicator number 1)."

Thoughts?

I think your interpreting the random pulls wrong. While yes in the beginning your pool of cards is definitely upgrades, I think you're incorrectly placing cards back in the deck box to be counted as pulls. They should be marked off the sheet as obtained and available to build the deck from once obtained and not placed in the pool of cards to pull randoms from when upgrading with a reward.

Example: I'm playing the rogue deck I got for my first random weapon deck upgrade the Animal Bane +1 Dagger which if I recall is adventure deck 1. the weapon B I replaced doesn't go back in to the pool of weapons I draw from for random upgrades since I already earned the card. it's always available to choose when constructing my deck. So when I get the random weapon draw from a scenario deck 3, those B level cards aren't as available.

I do think you have a good idea though that if I'm pulling a card from a level 3, there should be a lower limit to what I can be in the available pool.

however if you banished Caltrops, you could get Amulet of Life provided you don't have enough item cards in your deck to make the required amount.

Thanks. I must have missed it in the guide when I read it. appreciate the responses.

So I played a game with Merisel in the Skulls and Shackles Base set and then bought the Rouge character deck for use in the PACG play. I have a question that I haven't found the answer to yet.

In the rouge class deck, Disable Device was removed and Ranged was added. According to the rules, I can use disable device with a d4 only. Since I only get a d4, I can't recharge any thief tools since they need a disable device: 8 check. I could burn blessings but I think they would be better suited for exploring or use when really needed for dice. I have been told by some friends that I could just use Merisel from the S&S set since she is in the rouge class deck, however I can't find a rule that states such.

Is there truth to this and where can said rule be found. I would assume that if it was true that I would be permitted to do it only if I actually owned the set.

Some clarification is needed please. You start the post out in a good tone of we or even just general details, then you shift to first person and sign the post with two names. Grammatical error there fellows. So who is actually going to post more details and who is going to be on the podcast?

On topic, I think what was done with Season 5 and allowing the players to shape the scenarios for later in the season was a good idea. It lets players feel like their choices make a difference.

I'm looking for an answer on which parts of the Jade Regent Book 1 - The Brinewall Legacy that I should be preping for Society play over two sessions. In the chronicle sheets download, it states the sanctioned content is Brinewall of Winter (areas M-W2) (area A1-P5). I'm guessing that M-W2 is the Brinewall Castle. The Brinwall castle starts at T1 and goes to W2, so I'm a little confused as to what M is as well. Could that be the waterfront and the characters would be dropped off at Brinewall Village?

Also, what is the other area listed in the sanctioned content, A1-P5? I haven't found anything in those ranges aside from the goblin town and I don't think that's would be correct.