18 Delta as in SF medic?
(Sorry, this isn't meant to be a hijack.)
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As one of the posters who's had a posting nixed because (I can only assume) of a snippy response I made to Sebastian's pointing out a grammatical error on my part in another thread, I apologize to the rest of you. In Sebastian's defense, he immediately clarified the tongue-in-cheek nature of his commentary and, in all honesty, my initial response back was equally tongue-in-cheek. While some commentary in these boards may be deemed eregious and insulting, I for one do not feel that Sebastian was guilty of this in my case. I found his comments to be pretty humorous (and accurate)and they even led to some very witty responses from others. Either way, I came away from the whole discourse laughing, not angry. Maybe it's me, but I don't mind lively discussion and I sure as heck don't mind being corrected if I'm wrong. I just don't want judgment being passed on myself of any others frequenting these boards for positing their honest opinions. The quickest way to scare off new recruits to the game is to readily insinuate that there are such things as stupid questions or opinions. Unfortunately, this is a problem that has really burgeoned in the internet-age. There was a time when you knew that if you treated a "newbee" like a jerk, they'd never give gaming a second look. We need to be careful how we tread. Piazo and the gaming industry as a whole are only as healthy as the community we maintain and the new recruits we attract. Senseless infighting destroys both.
Paizo subscribes to the idea that the rules must serve the game world, not the other way around. Yup, KaeYoss, you're right - I just hadn't really thought of it from that perspective. I really like Paizo's stuff, I just wish I'd gotten hold of it sooner. I came in sort of late in their reign as publisher of the Dungeon and Dragon mags, but they were definitely my initial draw to the company. Whichever way I go on the whole 3.4/4e thing, Paizo will remain a primary source for me. I'm one of those guys who has come to trust their staff's ability to maintain the "freshness" of D&D. Anyone (and I speak of Erik specifically) who was so devoted to Greyhawk that he could make the oldest campaign setting in the D&D world feel new and alive on a near monthly basis is a credit to our whole community. Imagine what he and his gifted staff will do not that they've created their OWN campaign world. I don't want to see the 4e debate result in a schism that fractures the precious few folks that are enlightened enough to see D&D (in all its incarnations) for what it really is - a uniquely cool face-to-face pastime that engages the minds of all participants in a way that will never be rivaled by any MMORPG. But I fear that if we can't be open-minded in our discussions amongst ourselves, we play right into the hands of those who ignorantly criticize us even when we agree.
@Doug - I'm an Austinite - you're not THAT far out in the Wilderness. :) Nah, not really. I'm actually more precisely located near the thriving metropolis of Muldoon. But family commitments and the travel distance does hamper my ability to just pop-in over at the Dragon's Lair anytime I want or hang-out till all hours of the night (or weekends)with a good gaming group in Austin. As a DM in years past, I always hated unreliable players. That's all I'd be with three kids and their extracurriculars. Right now, they're just a priority.
Thanks to all for the input and commentary. I have given thought to the complexity of the older editions and my seeming ability to grasp them with little problem, but I wonder - because 3e was such a departure from previous editions, am I just suffering from not having "got in" when the edition got off the ground? I have already conceded that most of my problems with 3e/3.5 would probably have been hammered out had I been able to share a gaming table with other experienced gamers on a regular basis, but that just wasn't the case. I only recently gained the option of affordably engaging in on-line D&D as a player. I'm pretty sure that part of my problem with those 3e rules I identified is, for lack of a better term, lack of exercise. I think perhaps (and in all honesty), my knee-jerk attraction to the WotC salemanship of 4e may simply be a desire to "be there" from the ground up so that I can benefit from maximum access to discussions and clarifications of the rules and learn the game in the company of others. I harbor no ill will toward any of you folks who might fear that I off-handedly will dismiss your comments as those of an "elitist gamer." Hell, I would like nothing more than to once again be able comment as intelligently, effectively, and knowledgably as many of you do about this hobby/game we all seem to love so much. 4E might not be in the cards for me. I haven't decided. I just thought it might be interesting to pick the brains of some of the strongest, brightest 3.5 advocates I know of regarding my particular situation in an evironment that's historically pretty damn welcoming to folks. And yes, I realize that it's a hobby and that it requires (at least for me as a GM) a lot of research and prep work to make the playing experience exactly how I want it to be for my players. Believe me, my wife'll tell you I'm not struggling for lack of effort in terms of time investment. Geez, maybe I'm a closet gamer snob myself. Nah . . . just a little anal. Doug
I see your points, Sebastian. Perhaps it is the lure of getting in "at the ground level" that is most appealing and I am not closely examining the totality of the product. I, too, would have preferred a new edition that addressed the specific problematic areas while leaving what was known and understand (and worked) intact. I really don't like the idea of casting my substantial library of 3E products away. While I can respect the right of WotC to pursue the business end of their endeavors, I too strongly dislike the apparent lack of backwards-compatability I'm sensing. A world (such at FR) can only undergo so many world-shattering events before it loses the flavor that made it popular to begin with. I don't want to so Golarion suffer that fate.
It's a pet peeve and I'm completely unreasonable about it; my original post was intended to more silly than mean. Thank you for humoring me, apologies for being a bastard, and bygones. No sweat, Sebastian. Always willing to accept constructive criticism. I'm looking for friends, not seeking enemies. To all the other posters since the great "wilderness debate" - I understand that 4E isn't popular here in the Paizo boards. Hell, it stands to radically alter Paizo's Golarion campaign world drastically. I would ideally like to see Paizo's take on the whole realignment of the planes thingee. Anyone else notice the cherry-picking by WotC of some of Golarion's (to borrow another WotC term) conceits? Hmmm, a vanished empire founded by humans that devolved after consorting with fiendish powers? The reimagining of fey? Hell, even the Far Realm. Paizo hit all these elements in their Golarion setting. Either they've got a great industrial espionage unit or they're the trend setters and best minds regarding what D&D players and DMs want and like in existence. I just haven't got a better venue to speak with other casual or returning-to-the-game gamers. I envy the familiarity many of you have with the 3.5 system. I just don't have it and I'm sure I'm not alone. I haven't made my mind up yet about the transition. I just wanted to put my two cents in as a guy who comes from a little bit of a different perspective. Oh, and just to keep us on topic - "The Shack Outside La Grange" is a reference to the ZZ Top title "La Grange" which is, in turn, a reference to the Chicken Ranch brothel for which the nearest town of La Grange is best known. Unfortunately, it was closed down long before my settling here ;)
As a player of the original incarnations of D&D for many years in my youth before my life (or, I should say, the decisions I made in my life) got in the way, I would like to present an alternative perspective on the whole 4E debate. But first, some disclaimers: 1) I in no way, shape or form intend to belittle those among you who have either come to know this fantastic hobby through 3E/3.5 or who have succesfully transitioned from the older editions to the 3E/3.5 version and find it to be the pinnacle of the game's long and storied evolution. 2) I love Paizo, the quality of their products, and their responsiveness to their customers. 3) I only speak for myself and the conditions I find myself in and do not intend to imply that this positionis representative of anyone but myself. That being said, it is MY position that I will discuss. And I am sure, despite the fact that many in my position probably don't lurk on these or other boards, there is a whole segment of the gaming market that I represent. I'm 40 years old. While wholly well-versed in all the editions of D&D up to 3E, I had not played the game for the better part of 20 years because - well - life got in the way. I got married, I got divorced, I was in the Army, I remarried, I had three kids, I became a firefighter, I moved to rural America - what does it matter? For a variety of reasons, I left this hobby I had grown to love in my youth and hadn't looked back. Along comes 3E (and later 3.5). Despite the fact that I live in the sticks and can't find anyone to rekindle my love affair with the game, I do have two teenage sons and their friends who are dying to give it a try. So here we go. I pick up the 3E core rulebooks and give it a whirl. Grappling, polymorphing, AAoO - I'm trying to wrap my head around these new rules in the absence of more experienced minds (I don't have the luxury of a LGS - it's 70 miles away in Austin) to learn from. THEN, I'm trying to impart their use in the game to new young players. THEY see stalls in the game that rip them, screaming and kicking, out of the supended reality that makes the game fun to begin with. THEY say, "the game would be better if..." When new, virginal players can identify hiccups in a rules system right off the bat it doesn't bode well for a game's future and the recruitment of new players. Now along comes 4E and I like what I'm seeing based solely on the streamlining of the rules set. I'm no idiot, but I don't want to have to engage in the same effort it would take to obtain a PhD to master the basics of a rule set. Companies like Paizo do a great job of taking the basic rules set and expounding upon it (haunts, for example) and have done so for a great many years. I'll continue to rely on them (or others like them) to do so and will selectively choose which expansions I adopt. But if I can't master the basic system and impart it to my sons and their friends, what's the point? The hobby just... dies. I want my D&D to be fun, first and foremost. Next I want the basic system to be easy to master and impart on new players. Beyond that, I will concede styles of play to others who have more time to contemplate such issues and am willing to pay my hard-earned dollars to do benefit from them. Paizo is an example of just such an entity. But it doesn't change the fact that 3E is "rules-burdensome," I don't care what anyone says. Try figuring out what Erylium's stats are if she polymorphs into her raven form in RotRL 1. Yeah, it's not identified as her preferred option in the encounter's tactical layout, but what good is even mentioning it in her stat block if it's going to require a half hour's worth of research work and the development of a whole new stat block just to make it happen? Open-ended flexibility for flexibility's sake is no great selling point. While it sounds great in theory, it doesn't translate well to the gaming table. The D&D I remember was pretty easy to learn and maybe I've just got so much of "life" competing for brain space that the 3E/3.5 rules set just hasn't had the opportunity to take root and grow. Whatever the case may be, I'm open to WotC's efforts to address these sort of issues and hope that Paizo is as well. Doug
Your subscription is still in queue for shipment. You should be getting your shipping confirmation email (and resultant access to the PDF) sometime this week. Thank you for the prompt reply, Cosmo. I know you guys are very busy. Doug
I have yet to recieved my first Pathfinder. Should I be concerned? Nor have I. And I haven't yet gained access to a PDF version of it, either. I have read that there are some bugs creeping around in the system elsewhere on the boards, and I've emailed customer.service@paizo.com as instructed to inform them of the problem. I just sent the note of concern today, so I haven't heard back from them yet.
I really doubt you'll see PDF versions of the item cards or map packs. We'll be doing PDFs of the modules and Pathfinder, but Paizo is focused primarily on print products. James, I thoroughly understand your company's position and market strategy - the RPG industry as a whole has traditionally been a service of print-oriented materials (with the exception PDF versions of out-of-print products, many of questionable quality). However, as a company, Paizo has pioneered the trail of electronic supplements created for published materials. I would just ask that you consider advancing this push to cater also to the modern realm of role-players and GMs. It is my belief (although I can't truly substantiate it) that there is a large unacknowledged market consisting role-players and GMs who, by virtue of geography, family obligations, and time, rely on electronic-based mediums to stay involved in the hobby. I wish that I could have weekly table-tops, but that just isn't the case. Therefore, I engage in the next best thing - FantasyGrounds. I want to affirm that Paizo's current market strategy in no way, shape, or form jades me from continuing to furnish them my whole-hearted support based soley on the quality of their merchandise. And once again, that quality leads me to pledge that I would indeed purchase hard copies of any published materials I desired in an electronic format at full price. I would even give considerable thought to paying an extra cost. I only ask that you help me to help you by making as much of your product line accessible to all gamers - be they old-school table-toppers or new wavers-by-default like myself. Thanks for the prompt reply, James. It's just another example of why I love your company so much. Doug
One of the things I like best about most all of Paizo's past, present, & future productions (aside from the consistently above-standard writing and production quality) is their accessibility for application in an on-line gaming format. I myself use FantasyGrounds to overcome the hump of being an busy guy and living a considerable distance from my players, and PDF-formatted materials allow me to use all of these top-notch visual aids and maps with the tap of a mouse key. I must ask, is there any possibility that you might provide PDF-versions of your Item Cards and GameMastery Maps? I would be more than willing to purchase the "hard copy" version of these items if (as with your modules), I was also granted access to an electronic version of the product for use in my format of gaming. Additionally, map packs designed specifically for your published Pathfinder and GameMastery modules would be fantastic! Paizo - You have wisely identified and filled a niche that I know I am not alone in saying has been a long time coming. "The world's most popular role-playing game" will only be the better for it. Keep up your level of responsiveness to your customers and we will support you to the bitter end! Oh yeah, and how about some token packs? I love collecting and painting your minis, but hey, the're really hard to jam into a USB port. Thanks for letting me bend your ears, Doug |