advarial's page

Ok so here is an idea I had but need clarification on the rules.

Monk's flurry of blows states it is a fullround action using unarmed strikes or monk weapons

Throw anything says you can throw what ever you have this would include monk weapons

Quick draw says drawing a weapon is a free action

and

Rapid shot says when making a ranged attack as a full round action I may take one additional ranged shot with a penalty to all attacks

so as a monk if i were to have the following feats could i use flurry and rapid shot together

flurry of blows
throw anything
quick draw
point blank
rapid shot

Thus the following would occur with a human monk
monk- flurry of blows
Human - point blank
1st level quick draw
monk bonus - throw anything
2nd level monk bonus - any (doesn't apply to this situation)
3rd point blank
4th none
5th rapid shot

thus flurry of blows would be as follows if throwing monk weapons
+3/+3 normal -- rapid shot penalties +1/+1/+1 -- +point blank +2/+2/+2

Is this correct according to the rules?

Most of the complete guides to series by goodman games (not sure about ogl though) As stated previous as well the spells from the spell compendium and most of the magic item compendium

If you want to throw things you should really look at the Alchemist!!!

You also can't make potions or oils out of Personal Range Spells. This is located at the end of the Magic items chapter after the Tables with all the formulas under Creating Potions.

--Detroit Vrock City

thank you for the info. I was able to find the specific page for that info due to what you told me. Just for a btw here is the page in the core rule book 1 ...pg. 551

rules wrote:

Activation: Drinking a potion or applying an oil requires
no special skill. The user merely removes the stopper and
swallows the potion or smears on the oil.

Drinking a potion or using an oil is a standard action.

Just hitting a guy with the oil isn't enough to make it work, the rules say that you have to smear it over the user. That's why smearing an oil over an inconscious creature is a full round action, and not an attack (standard) action.

Oils were designed to be used with items (spells like greater magic weapon, etc..) If you want to attack with potions and make it a viable option you have to do some houseruling. I would try in the houserules subforum.

There isn't any potion or oil with personal range that can be crafted, the rules for potion crafting are the same rules used for oil crafting as both are part of the same group of magic items (potions).

That makes sense. I would still like the specific page in the core rules that states no personal ranged spell can be made into a potion. Can some one please provide the specific page #?

I think you're misreading.

Spells with the "personal" range cant be oils or potions. neither can lightning bolt.

what it means by "any spell of 3rd level or lower that can be cast on a creature or object can be made into a potion or oil" is any spell with "target:creature/object touched" can be made into potions/oils. so no fireball oil. Its the reason their arent already potions of shield, or glibness (+30 bluff anyone?).

Maybe your right but I couldn't find any rule stating that spells with personal range couldn't be made into potions. Please give me a reference page for your supposition so that I may verify it from the actual texts.

advarial wrote:

Drinking or applying a potion typically is a standard action when the target is not unconscious.

Assuming the target is the one doing to drinking/applying, yes. I posit that forcing a potion down someone's throat or dousing them with oil (enough to cause an effect) is impossible against an unwilling or non-helpless target, based on the difficulty of doing it to a helpless target.

I wouldn't make it impossible. I think that I would make the thrower make a regular ranged attack instead of a ranged touch attack to hit. I might also make them role a d4+stregnth mod and have to do atleast 2 hp to the vial or it would land unbroken. (potion vials have 1 hardness + 1 hp per the book)

Not sure where to post errata but here is what i have found that needs some correction.:

bardic music has been changed to bardic performance under bard class however in the prestige classes specifically the pathfinder chronicler it is called bardic music. and states on page 390 "at 3rd level a pathfinder chronicler gains this ability which functions like the bard class feature of the same name."

Problem is that there is no longer a bardic music class feature.

advarial wrote:

so when holding the charge then and making touch attacks every round...does the spell deal its damage every round or is it discharged on the initial touch. Example

cast Inflict light wounds --hold charge--then make touch attacks for the next x number of rounds each doing the inflict wound damage of 1d8+1.

Just once.

Pretty much every attack spell is like that. You cast, it goes off, then it's done. Sure, a few spells specifically say otherwise, in which case, the instructions are in the spell description. Without explicit instructions letting you use the attack multiple times, you can't.

Thats what I thought but the wording is a bit foggy so i had to ask.

so when holding the charge then and making touch attacks every round...does the spell deal its damage every round or is it discharged on the initial touch. Example
cast Inflict light wounds --hold charge--then make touch attacks for the next x number of rounds each doing the inflict wound damage of 1d8+1.

advarial wrote:

So...what you stated above doesn't appear to apply atleast from my understanding of the rules.

I am willing to be wrong though

Last sentence on the potion page.

ok so i stand corrected on the application of an oil to an unconscious creature. thanks for that clarification.

Combat Section on Differently Sized Creatures wrote:

Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures: Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. 25 Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can't reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent's square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also can't flank an enemy.

Emphasis mine.

So creatures with natural reach of 0 feet have to enter other squares to attack. So they are an exception to the rule of "only enter an opponent's square if they are helpless".

Also, it notes that they can "be attacked normally". From this I would extrapolate that they can be flanked. How they can be flanked sort of requires some sort of quasi-facing rules. Namely indicating which portion of a square a smaller-than-small creature is currently in. This is probably best indicated by which side of the square the creature entered.

THis is how I understand it as well and would adjudicate it as a DM.

I think because administering an oil to an unconscious (and thus helpless) creature is a full-round action that making an attack with an oil is downright impossible.

Not that its not a neat idea.

PG 478 states "A character can carefully administer a potion to an unconscious creature as a full round action, trickling the liquid down the creatures throat." but an oil is applied externally therefore it shouldn't matter much whether the creature/target was conscious or not. Also a little further up on the same page it states ""drinking a potion or applying an oil is a standard action."

So...what you stated above doesn't appear to apply atleast from my understanding of the rules.

I am willing to be wrong though

I saw three posts on this topic but i still dont know what is the right rule.

Someone says that to pinpoint a creature that is invisible and not moving is DC 60, someone DC 40 and i dont understand the table in the book or on PRD page.

Can someone answer this thing???

Thanks

pg 563 in core rule book 1 states the following:

so the base for a moving/active invisible creature is DC 20 then apply all appropriate modifiers from the table on page 563.

Example

Fred is invisible and walking. George must role a perception DC 20 to "gain a hunch
something is there" but can't actually see it (core rules 1 pg 563) (in this case can't see Fred)

now to continue this example

Invisible Fred is talking to his buddy. Basic DC 20 (see above) -20 from it as per table (563) making the dc a 0. This only allows the George to know which square Fred is in. It does not negate any of the advantages of invisibility in combat other than the 50% miss chance of targeting the correct square.

Thats how I understand it. Hope it helps

Potion/oils under magic items in the book states " Oils are similar to potions , except that oils are applied eternally rather than imbibed...It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and effects one or more creatures.(core rules 1 pg 477)" So.. if we assume that oils and potions only differ in their means of delivery (imbibed/applied) then "Potions (oils?) are like spells cast upon the imbiber(target of the oil).... "The drinker of the potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect(though the potion indicates caster level, the drinker still control the effect.) (core rule 1 pg.477)"

Then would the "drinker" or target of the oil if you will be the effective target?

If so can spells such as mirror image(core rules 1 pg. 314) with range personal be used as an oil?

IF so then the target would be whoever was "hit" by the oil if it were thrown?

Can oils be used as thrown weapons?

Would oils be considered splash weapons which "require no weapon proficiency so you don't take the -4 nonproficiency penalty? (core rules 1 pg 202)

How would splash be handled for oils of spells that are rays? example ray of frost (core rules 1 pg 330)

For those that produce cones? example color spray (core rules pg 256)

Most splash weapons (at least that I have seen) do a 1d6 damage on a direct hit. Would oils do that as well? Or maybe a 1d4 for being smaller (vials)?

If say a cure light wounds was used as an oil and thrown say against the party's paladin would he take damage from being hit before he was healed?

Would spells like produce flame (core 1 pg 326) burn for the length of their duration where the oil broke?

Am I missing anything else that I should have gotten?

I have an idea for a character that could be fun. Instead of using potions use what most people over look...OILS. They work just like potions with one exception..they are applied externally. So I want to do a character that is all thrown weapons and use oils. so here are a couple of questions:

1.) Any suggestions on adjudicating uses of oils like mirror image when thrown against an opponent. The spell says personal but when reading under the potions part of the magic items it says that any spell of 3rd level or lower that can be cast on a creature or object can be made into a potion or oil. It also says that the whomever drinks the potion is considered the target...thus to whomever the oil was applied becomes the target?

2.) with spells like stone to mud how would others figure the "damage" caused by the oil? I was thinking that it would only effect a 5 foot square but possibly make it effect a deeper area over time.

3.) splash weapons do d6 on direct hit usually and then their effect with a collateral damage of 1 to each adjacent square. So would oils then be considered splash weapons and if so then how would something like a lightning bolt deliver splash damage?

4.) splash weapons take no proficiency and are ranged touch attacks unless targeted on a square intersection. would this still apply to oils or would it be fair to require a feat like throw anything?

5.) If the throw anything feat was used then on spells that can be made into oils but are normally a ray, would the feat allow the thrower of the oil to determine the direction of the "ray"? I was thinking that strategically it might make more sense to have to have the vial of oil hit a wall or something and thus direct the "splash ray>"

I have a few other questions as well but lets start here.
Please give specifics with the feed back I am trying to get an idea how some of this would play out according to game rules.