abellius's page

Two more bonus character pictures has been revealed for my Kickstarter backers and can be seen here.

You can also see the initial sketch for CBL's aasimar bard which had his evil mustache upgraded to a more evil-looking beard!

I applaud the lack of chainmail bikinis and the fact that the character with the least clothes on is a male monk. Way not to objectify the fairer sex :)

Stay classy.

Thanks. Even though Pathfinder/D&D is fantasy game where magic plays a part, all our female characters will be wearing realistic armor and clothes.

Here are 2 more examples of our ladies wearing suitable attire, but are still in development:

• Human Fighter
  
• Half-Elf Ranger
  

So it's not a single book? It's an ongoing subscription?

And have you considered doing 3rd party classes for your NPCs?

This time around, there will no be a subscriptions, I will be releasing books with 5 characters each and people who support my Kickstarter will get 5 books (25 characters), plus any other bonuses that are offered.

Unless there is a demand for 3rd party classes, I don't plan too.

Two bonus pictures have been added for backers that pledged at the GA Champion, CBL Champion, and CBL Creator levels. At least two more will be revealed over the course of the Kickstarter.

My CBL Kickstarter is now live!

Link

I will be launching my CBL Kickstarter at 8pm EST this coming Wednesday and I will post a link here when it goes live.

Also, the final version of the artwork for my tengu oracle character is now posted on my company's Facebook page.

My CBL project will be using the following Pathfinder classes & races:

- Classes - All. However, no mythic at this time.
- Races - All races from the Pathfinder's Advanced Race Guide is fair game. This also includes - gnolls, lizardmen, and kasatha.

Our current character lineup:

Month 1 – Adventurers I

• Human Cavalier male
  
• Dwarven Rogue male
  
• Elven Druid female
  
• Half-Elf ranger female
  
• Halfing Wizard male

Month 2 – The Wicked I

• Half-Orc Anti-Paladin male
  
• Elven Cleric female
  
• Tiefling Ninja/Assassin male
  
• Human Dragon-Blooded Sorceress female
  
• Aasimar Bard male (with evil mustache!)

Month 3 – Adventurers II

• Gnome Alchemist male
  
• Half-Orc Monk male
  
• Fetching Summoner (Shadow Caller) female
  
• Tengu Oracle male
  
• Human Fighter female

Month 4 – Outsiders I

• Ifrit Inquisitor male
  
• Undine Cleric male
  
• Onead Barbarian male
  
• Sylph Witch female
  
• Sulis Magus female

Month 5 & All stretch goal month characters

• Determined by kickstarter backers

If you can do a month of Orcs with class...not half orcs, just straight Orcs from bestiary 1, you have me as a kick-in.

Orc Wizard
Orc Alchemist
Orc Paladin
Orc Magus

Just solid non regular Orcs.

A 5 character orc release using the Advanced Race Guide can be done. If there is enough demand for it, I see no problem creating it. I can easily focus a 5 character PDF book release focused on one race, class, or alignment. Examples - Orcs I, Wizards I, Naughty People I, Outcasts I (mixture of non-typical races), etc.

If my Kickstarter is successful, I have reserved the last 5 characters as well as any bonus characters added by stretch goals to be determined by backers. Anyone who helps fund the (expensive) artwork for this project deserves to have a voice to what characters are created.

Hey guys, thread seems to have got off topic. Lets try to talk more about this fantastic idea. I personally think this will be a lot of fun.

For the NPCs you are making, are you looking to do more "generic" characters ("Guard", "Drow Fighter") or are you aiming this more towards the player side? Like "Herrick of Eastwind" and providing a background (large or small )for them?

All characters will be created (stat blocks) for NPC and PC use, so GMs and players can use them if they wish.

Now, the characters will lean towards more generic due that I cannot tailor them specifically for every commercial or home-brew campaign out there. However, they will be properly named and will have some background and role-playing ideas on how to introduce them to your games. So, to answer your question, all characters will be named and have a small background to go with them.

Here's an old obsolete version of the CBL character fluff page layout to give you an idea how the characters will be presented - obsolete example. I should have 2 new page layout examples (fancy and printer-friendly versions) to show off before this Kickstarter launches. Also, the example character fluff was reviewed by a professional editor after this example was created so any grammar mistakes have been addressed and some sentences have been rewritten.

Some of you may already be familiar with my Characters-By-Level (CBL) project that I tried to run last year, but after getting some very good advice from some friendly people here and on other forums I canceled it and went back to the drawing board. After streamlining the scope of what CBL is and getting more of my ducks in a row, I will be relaunching my Kickstarter on January 22, 2014.

My CBL's Facebook page contains all the latest details about my Kickstarter project as well as show all the character artwork that has already been completed for it. If you don't like Facebook, you can get the same information from my website or on my CBL Google+ page.

So what is Characters-By-Level?

Characters-By-Level (CBL) is a RPG gaming aid that consists of Pathfinder compatible pre-generated characters ready to be used in your Pathfinder games of any level. CBL will be released in monthly installments with each release consisting of a PDF containing 5 characters that also comes with Hero Lab portfolios and high quality character art files. For those that are only interested in our character artwork, it will be offered separately as its own product called Game Avatars (GA).

Each month’s release of CBL will contain the following:

* A 200+ page PDF book detailing 5 characters with NPC & PC stat blocks for levels 1-20
* Separate, high quality artwork files (jpegs) for all characters
* Hero Lab portfolios for all characters

We will be launching our Kickstarter campaign on January 22, 2014 to help fund our CBL project and the majority of the funds will be used to pay for the highly detailed character artwork. If our Kickstarter is successful, we will produce 5 months of CBL with stretch goals extending our monthly releases for up to a year. That means we plan to produce anywhere between 25 to 60 pre-generated characters depending on the success of our campaign.

Characters

All of our characters will include descriptions detailing their class builds, backgrounds, appearances, personalities, and ways to help you to fit them into your games. The details will tend to be more generic due to the fact that our characters are not campaign specific, but we will provide enough information so that you should be able to use them in your games with little effort. Unlike other books that provide pre-generated characters, we provide complete NPC as well as PC stat blocks for levels 1-20 for all of our characters and this will allow you to use them in any of your Pathfinder games regardless of level! Additionally, every stat block for a character beyond 1st level is based off the level immediately previous so that you can see how each character evolves.

Our characters’ NPC stat blocks will be created by using 15-point ability score builds or the NPC heroic ability array while PC stat blocks will be using 20-point builds and be assigned 2 starting traits. In deciding which races, classes, feats, equipment, spells, etc. to allow in the designs of our characters, we plan to use OGL content from the following Pathfinder books: Core Rulebook, Advanced Player’s Guide, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, Advanced Race Guide, Bestiaries 1-3, and Ultimate Equipment. As you can see there is a lot of material to draw from that will allow us to create a wide variety of characters to use in your campaigns.

By providing NPC and PC stat blocks for all our characters, GMs as well as players can find our CBL gaming aid useful for their games.

Artwork

We have talented artists on board to draw high quality colored bust portraits of all our characters. Besides using our character art inside our PDFs, we plan to make the same artwork available as separate image files (jpegs) of various sizes so that they can be used in your games or gaming websites. You will also receive large wallpaper versions of all our characters for personal use though we ask that you not post them on the internet. If certain stretch goals are reached during our Kickstarter in January, some of our character portraits will be upgraded to full length and our backers will determine which ones receive this upgrade.

Here is a list of some of the character image files you will receive:

*Website avatars
*Virtual tabletop avatars with different token rings
*Wallpapers (up to 1200 pixels vertically)

All of our latest character artwork will be posted on our Facebook page.

Hero Lab Portfolios

We will include Hero Lab portfolios of all of our characters as a bonus to individuals that use that program for their Pathfinder games.

Availability of Paper Versions of CBL

CBL will only be offered as a PDF for we feel that the production cost of a physical book of character stats is too high for most people interested in purchasing our product. However, we do plan to sell POD versions later on through RPGNow.com and other websites for people that really want them.

this sounds cool, I will check it out when it comes out. The Kasatha are cool I would hope you stay with that. Also my friend and I laughed at the Aasimar Bard male (with evil mustache!) . Lastly I would not mind seeing a few mythic characters mixed in especially a villain

You cannot be an evil bard without the appropriate evil mustache! I also plan to stick with the Kasatha since I found no official OGL version of the mantis warrior out there for Pathfinder. However, just mentioning the Thri-Kreen got me into trouble with some users here.

My Facebook page will have all latest Kickstarter details and artwork about my CBL project. I plan to have the tengu oracle and human fighter artwork completed before my Kickstarter launches, and I will have 4-5 character portraits being worked on as my Kickstarter runs.

If there is enough demand from my backers, I wouldn't mind having a CBL monthly release devoted to mythic characters. Thanks for bringing that up.

Nobody's accusing you of anything except what you have done, and I've simply offered friendly advice that you shouldn't do what you have already done any more. Ever. That's all.

Again, please don't accuse me of unethical business behavior and I find your friendly advice "unfriendly". I take it you are not a licensed lawyer or have never done B2B contracts before?

Thinking of using another company's IP in your product is not a crime. I have every right to use thri-Kreens, beholders, transformers, or whatever IP I want to use in my products as long as I have permission or licensing agreements with the companies or people that own the IP I want to use. You saying to stay away from other companies' IP 100% of the time is quite silly. Companies are constantly making licensing agreements and contracts with other companies to use their IP, even in the RPG market.

abellius wrote:

Yes, I know. Thri-Kreen is WOTC's IP. I would do it as a generic Mantis Warrior character or flesh it out using the Kasatha stats & appearance listed in the Advanced Race Guide.

May advice is don't get in the habit of thinking this way. The moment you accept that it's okay to use product identity in your rough notes is the moment you're damning yourself to slipping something into your final product.

There are no thri-keen. There are no beholders, no gith-zerai, no mindflayers. They don't exist. Not in short form, not in private, not under your breath, and not in your dreams.

Good habits and professionalism will carry you far.

I know the Thri-Kreen is WOTC's IP as I stated in my response to Justin. However, maybe I should have been more clear. I was thinking of using a generic version of a "mantis warrior" (no IP issues) if available. If not, then I would use the Kasatha as a substitute for they similar to the Thri-Kreen in some ways.

If I wanted to use the Thri-Kreen in my product, then I would have to get a license from WOTC and that most likely wouldn't be cheap! Please don't accuse me that I think using other companies' IP is fine or ethical.

Since I cannot find any generic mantis warriors races for Pathfinder that I can use commercially over the last week, then I would stick with the Kasatha. Unfortunately, I cannot edit my initial post to remove the Thri-Kreen reference.

Wasn't this a kickstarter before, that was canceled?

Yes. Based on good advice from people here and other forums that I wish I knew before I pressed the launch button back in October, I decided to cancel it and use these last couple of months to streamline what I want my CBL project to be and have more of my ducks in a row to make sure my project is done correctly, even if my Kickstarter is funded or not. If my Kickstarter is successful, then I can keep my artist team for the long-haul and produce CBL content in a consistent monthly work flow instead of sporadically by releasing a month or two at a time and waiting for enough sales to produce the next month or so. The character artwork I want to use is expensive and a big majority of my Kickstarter funds would be used to fund it.

I was going to save this for my project's promo post next week, but it doesn't hurt it mention it now, Even though I canceled my Kickstarter back in October, I still have been working on it for the last 3 months. I have more character artwork completed with 6 more portraits currently in progress, I have hired a professional editor to review all CBL characters' fluff pages, I have a layout guy working with me on the project's PDF cover and other pages (which should be completed by the end of January), and I have my business paperwork prepared so I will be able to incorporate my business in January. So, I have been a little busy.

In one way I'm glad I canceled my Kickstarter back in October for it allowed me to do some things that I should have done before I launched it (based on the good advice I received), so when I relaunch it again in January backers will see more completed character artwork & content and I will be able to keep my promises with little stress to my artists as well as myself since more of my project will be completed beforehand. Running a successful Kickstarter is not as easy as Kickstarter makes it out to be. I found that out the hard way and I believe I learned from noob mistakes so I can now put a quality product out there next year and see if there is a market for it.

Thri-Kreen are not OGC.

Yes, I know. Thri-Kreen is WOTC's IP. I would do it as a generic Mantis Warrior character or flesh it out using the Kasatha stats & appearance listed in the Advanced Race Guide.

I do love using the NPCs from the NPC codex and other products as the basis for my own NPCs, saves a lot of time and work.

However, I could really use a bunch of pregenerated NPCs of classes found in Ultimate Magic, the Advanced Players Guide, Ultimate Combat and so on (so for example, summoners, magus, gunslinger, etc...). Especially higher level ones. Anyone know has Paizo put out a book with any non-core rulebook class NPCs? If not, has perhaps a 3rd party publisher? Or someone know of where online I could find some?

I've dug around a bit, but have had no luck so far.

If no one has done this yet... I might just have to start making a bunch myself (but I'd rather not if I can avoid it).

I plan to run a Kickstarter next month that will produce a variety of Pathfinder compatible NPCs for your campaigns. All of my NPCs will be stated out from levels 1-20 and I will be using a variety of official Pathfinder source books to create them.

Check my Facebook page out for more details and see if what I'm trying to do interests you.

My company, Rabid Hamster Workshop, will be running a Kickstarter next month for a Pathfinder compatible RPG product line called Characters-By-Level. Here's the quick blurb of what it is and you can check my Facebook page for more details:

Characters-By-Level (CBL) is a RPG gaming aid that consists of Pathfinder compatible pre-generated NPCs (along with PC stats) ready to be used in your games that will be released monthly. CBL will be released as a PDF book and it will come with Hero Lab portfolios and high quality character art files. If you don’t play Pathfinder, the character art is also offered separately as its own product called Game Avatars (GA).

My CBL Kickstarter will start off with 25 pre-made characters for Pathfinder. I have already decided what 20 of them are going to be (see below) and I am looking for suggestions from other GMs and players of what the remaining 5 should be. I want to offer a good mixture of characters from different races and classes that other gamers would find interesting as well as useful for their campaigns, so if you have any suggestions to what my last 5 characters should be or just want to see a particular character concept created, reply to this post and let me know. A simple 1-2 sentence reply telling me the race, class, and general gist of the character will suffice, but if you want to give a more in-depth reply, go for it! Please keep your suggestions to the races and classes that my CBL Kickstarter plans to use, which is listed below.

My CBL project will be using the following Pathfinder classes & races:

- Classes - All. However, no mythic at this time and gunslingers will a low priority due that some gaming groups don't like firearms in their fantasy games.
- Races (from Pathfinder's Advanced Race Guide)

• Common: Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Halflings, Humans
  
• Featured: Aasimars, Dhampirs, Drow, Fetchlings, Ifrits, Oreads, Sylphs, Tengus, Tieflings, Undines
  
• Uncommon Races: Duergar, Kitsune, Samsarans, Sulis, Vishkanyas
  
• Featured together as a theme for one month's release: Goblin, Kobold, Lizardman, Mantis Warrior (Thri-Kreen), ?
  

Current Character Lineup:

Month 1 – Adventurers I

• Human Cavalier male
  
• Dwarven Rogue male
  
• Elven Druid female
  
• Half-Elf ranger female
  
• Halfing Wizard male
  

Month 2 – The Wicked I

• Half-Orc Anti-Paladin male
  
• Elven Cleric female
  
• Tiefling Ninja/Assassin male
  
• Human Dragon-Blooded Sorceress female
  
• Aasimar Bard male (with evil mustache!)
  

Month 3 – Adventurers II

• Gnome Alchemist male
  
• Half-Orc Monk male
  
• Fetching Summoner (Shadow Caller) female
  
• Tengu Oracle male
  
• Human Fighter female
  

Month 4 – Outsiders I

• Ifrit Inquisitor male
  
• Undine Cleric male
  
• Onead Barbarian male
  
• Sylph Witch female
  
• Sulis Magus female
  

Month 5 - Adventurers III or The Wicked II - Characters TBD

Have a Merry Christmas everyone!!

Abellius, I offer my apologies for me misconstruing what you said as attacking my position on tolerance. I just now read your post. When I started typing the post, I did not see the posts. Took me about 15 minutes, as I was posting from my phone and I took the time to address the points listed, during which time you made posts you explained your reasoning in, which I did not see. With that, I respectfully now out of the discussion.

No problem. I just wanted to understand your reasoning on the "overlook" statement and you answered it in your previous response. Thank you.

You seem more concerned with fighting for tolerance and less a "veiled attacks against LGBT" type poster so it's all good.

Peace out.

Ditto!

abellius wrote:

Even though people here are being hostile towards me for what I have said, though most of them don't really understand my points or really care to, I'm trying not to be rude or hostile towards you. I made some points and I'm not going to deviate from them by answering tangents or strawman arguments.

My observation is that you are good at broadcasting, but not so flash at communicating. What you call 'tangents and strawmen' seems to consist of rebuttal and disagreement. If you aren't wishing to project as rude and hostile then perhaps you need to rethink your approach.

Until you address my original points we have nothing to discuss I guess.

Abellius, what I was saying is that basically despite not holding a particular view, I can respect other peoples' views, not run them through the mud. I advocate acceptance of those beliefs, though I will not indulge in them. Does that clarify my statement somewhat? If my wording was the source of your offense, I apologize for not being clear.

Nah, nonthingt you wrote offended me. Actually, I appreciate what you have written for I found it mature and interesting.

I just questioned one sentence you wrote where people should "overlook" the authors at Paizo about things that offend them. That grab my interest and made me ask you my original question - Why support a company that you disagree with based on this "overlook" reason? I didn't ask it for yucks. I was actually curious to see your reasoning behind it for everyone I know don't support companies that they disagree with unless they don't have a choice or the "free" factor is applied.

abellius wrote:

stuff

Okay, I was not looking to fight. I was trying to facilitate understanding. I'm generally happy when people do the same with my posts (as happened near the beginning of this thread).

I still think you're misunderstanding the post you originally responded to, but I don't think I'll be able to convince you of that, as you seem to have made up your mind in that matter.

Have yourself a good evening.

I read what was written and quoted it. There is no doubt what the words say. Now, if the poster meant something different from what he wrote, then he needs to change it.

You have a good evening yourself.

Abellius, truth be told it is somewhat naive to say that if one disagrees with one thing a company does, then you should essentially boycott it. Perfect example: if you are opposed to slavery, which you should be, boycott your phone or computer, whichever you post from, because the parts are made and put together by workers who are slaves in everything but name. You see my point?

The point I was trying to make was derailed by unrelated questions posed, but I feel it necessary to address the question asked of me and offer some exposition on my point.

I totally disagree. People boycott businesses all the time for numerous reasons. You saying that it is naive may show your naivety. One of my fellow gay gamers has told me repeatably which stores he will never shop at due to their anti-gay positions, so please don't tell me you can't boycott businesses.

You are right about boycotting computer components for there isn't many alternatives at this point in time, but it's easy to boycott certain computer manufacturers. It's not hard to boycott restaurants, books, movies, RPG books, computer games, etc, and people do it all the time.

I responded to a particular sentence you said and I got my answer. You have no problems spending money on a company's products that you disagree with, but I don't agree with your original reason ("overlook"). Now, if you new position is that there is no other choices or the alternatives are worse, then that is different reason from what you originally said.

Okay. Just saying that several people have said, in this thread and elsewhere, that if you don't like what Paizo is doing, don't buy their stuff.

Again, my initial points was to a statement that was made regardless what you think the consensus of this thread is. Ok?

Okay. Usually, when one posts in a thread on a discussion board like this one, one expects that other people will join in on whatever conversation you're having. Sometimes people will attempt to alleviate possible misunderstanding as well, which was my intent.

If you don't want anyone else to get involved in your discussion with Silver Prince, maybe it'd be better to take that conversation over to PM?

I agree with you that you can join in my conversation with Silver Prince since this is a public thread and I have no problems with it, but he is doing fine explaining his position to me and I'm replying back based on what he specifically said. It is coming across that you are putting words in his mouth to defend him where you don't need to.

Even though people here are being hostile towards me for what I have said, though most of them don't really understand my points or really care to, I'm trying not to be rude or hostile towards you. I made some points and I'm not going to deviate from them by answering tangents or strawman arguments.

Like you said, Paizo as a company can do whatever they want with the design and sale of their products. If you don't like that, then don't buy them. Not a big deal. However, that wasn't my original points to two different people.

abellius wrote:

And your point is to my original post?

I would have thought it was pretty self explanatory really, perhaps you might need to consider your original post and then consider how mine might apply.

Maybe you should first and we can work from there.

For the record; I don't want to silence the bigoted folks. I like for them to speak out loud and proud. Makes it easier for the rest of us to identify them and bring them out into the light.

We may criticize and show derision towards their mindset; but I don't think anyone has tried to silence them.

Free speech is one thing; delegitimizing someone for being unlike what you consider the norm is another. 10 years ago, we tended to look the other way. Some of us have chosen another path recently.

Do what you got to do. Fine by me. However, don't make yourself become as bad or worse than the people you are criticizing by labeling them anti-equality or anti-X and-or mention that you expect them to keep their opinions to themselves.

My original post was to a specific statement that was said, which I found hypocritical and not good if that person is supposedly for equal rights.

abellius wrote:

Btw, I'm a Voltaire free speech kind of guy and it irks me when people try to silence opposing views with attack responses in public forum threads like this one.

Silenced? You mean 'asked to back their argument' in a put up/shut up kinda way?

Freedom of speech =/= freedom from consequence.

And your point is to my original post? It seems you are going off on a tangent.

abellius wrote:

Again, do you spend your money on companies that you strongly disagree with? Yes or no? If you do, that's silly.

Read through the thread. The consensus seems to be, if you disagree with what Paizo is doing, and you feel strongly about it, you do not need to purchase their products.

abellius wrote:

Besides you going off on a tangent that has nothing to do with my initial point to you, all I see in your response to me is justifying that what Paizo is doing is acceptable to you and is worth your money. Nothing more.

He's reiterating his original post, which is on-topic for this thread, and serves as a response to the original poster.

It appears you totally missed my initial points so maybe you need to read through the thread again! Also, please don't tell me what you think this thread's consensus is for it will be biased to what you want it to be. I was responding to two specific statements made in this thread and I will keep my focus on them and my original points.

Also, please stop telling me to read through the thread and don't interpret what my conversation with Silver Prince is suppose to be according to you. I think he can handle responding to me just fine on his own.

3 replies of stuff

My stance on gay marriage or what sexual behavior Paizo puts in its APs is irrelevant to the points I originally made.

Anyone that goes around in a public forum and mentions that they expect anyone with an opposing view that they consider offense, bad, bigoted, etc to keep them to themselves and labels that person as an anti-equality or anti-whatever is being a jerk and a intolerant person.

Yes, I did read the whole thread. All I see is a lot of intolerance, ignorance, and bigotry responses from people who should know better. I also see from a few responses that Paizo may be wearing their politics on their sleeve and it may be impacting some of their customer base when it comes to sales.

Btw, I'm a Voltaire free speech kind of guy and it irks me when people try to silence opposing views with attack responses in public forum threads like this one.

Abellius, simply because it is a small facet which, if personally offensive enough, can be changed or glossed over. That Paizo may hold opinions contrary to mine is something which pales in comparison to the general quality of their products and the fact that it is their own decision which is not detrimental to me. How can one look at Reign of Winter and say it is not a masterpiece of an AP, just because of the FF and FT relationships, not to mention the whole possibility of unknowingly romancing a polymorphed winter wolf? Like I said before, the author's preferences and personal reasons for making non-traditional characters is irrelevant to me, because if it bothers me I will change it. The quality of the material is what matters to me. People's opinions and preferences are their own and if they hurt no one in holding them, why should I bother taking offense? Besides, human psychology is such that the more you try to dissuade people from a course of action, the tighter they cling to it, so if your goal is to dissuade these things, isn't actively trying to do so counterproductive to your goals anyway.

Again, do you spend your money on companies that you strongly disagree with? Yes or no? If you do, that's silly.

Besides you going off on a tangent that has nothing to do with my initial point to you, all I see in your response to me is justifying that what Paizo is doing is acceptable to you and is worth your money. Nothing more. That's fine with me. However, telling people that do have a problem with a company's actions or products to overlook it so they "don't discourage authors from crafting masterful stories simply because you disagree with the inclusion of personally uncomfortable subject matter" is again silly. Why would someone support a company with their money that do things that they strongly oppose?

abellius wrote:

Anti-equality? What the hell does that mean?

It means what they say it means in the bracketed part of their post, the same bracketed part that you reposted. You did read the part in brackets right?

"You're not my equal, and don't deserve the same rights and privileges as I do"

Again, in regards to what? Everything or some things? Are we dealing with behavior, wealth, morals, laws, or whatever?

Why did I click on a thread with politics on the label lol?

I feel the need to add 2 copper pieces to this.

I am not a homosexual person, I'm a hypersexualixed heterosexual. I personally would not engage in homosexual acts, both because of personal preference and my chosen religious doctrine. HOWEVER, whether other people do so is not really an issue for me, unless they infringe on my rights in a certain way by doing so. If others want to stand up and shout their sexual preference all day long, it matters little to me, as I have made my choice on the matter and everyone else has to make theirs. This viewpoint has brought me some criticism, as I live in the Deep South U.S. and holding an accepting view of these subjects brings me much criticism from some people.

Simply put, I do not see the problem with including such characters. They are not, in my opinion, the focus of adventures anymore than heterosexual characters, perhaps even less so in some cases. If homosexuals/transsexuals in an AP offend you, simply change the nature of their relationship, as the APs are designed as semi-flexible, linked modules, not as set-in-stone monuments of how the games have to be run. I usually find out what a particular group's boundaries are sexually, morally, ect., and make the change before the game even begins. My home group does not particularly care about sexuality distinctions, as that's just what they are, distinctions, no more political or controversial than hair or eye color, race, ect.

What I'm saying is this: if it offends you then gloss over it, ignore it, or change it. Don't discourage authors from crafting masterful stories simply because you disagree with the inclusion of personally uncomfortable subject matter. To counter the inevitable reply of 'it's the way they're included', I'll simply state that they are shown less often than their 'traditional' counterparts in the same story capacity and any claims of them given 'pet positions' are somewhat illogical.

I apologize to anyone I have offended,...

Why would you or anyone want to support a company with their money if they do things that you strongly disagree with?

This applies to anything in life, not just sexual relationships.

My personal opinion:

I would expect anyone with anti-equality views (by which I mean the "You're not my equal, and don't deserve the same rights and privileges as I do" type) to keep them to themselves. That's about the only requirement I would expect.

Anti-equality? What the hell does that mean? Does everything need to be equal between different people or just what YOU think needs to be equal?

Anyway, your opinion sounds very condescending imo. A stance like that comes across as - "Since you are not for equality for everyone you are a mean-spirited, bigoted, homophobic, racist jerk! Oh, and keep your mouth shut too since your opinion doesn't agree with mine!" Wow! So much for free speech and demonizing people who disagree with you in this thread by using the word ANTI-equality.

You telling people with opposing views to keep their opinions to themselves while telling them what your opinion is in a public forum is just....wow!

Lessee. 28 days to go. It might be close to the end, but I'm pretty sure I can get in before it expires, I'll be in touch! And thanks :) (and expect to get a similar proposal from me if and when mine goes ahead!)

Thanks and keep me posted of your KS. I'm interested to see how to handle the "rendered" look in your 3D pictures.

I don't want to ruin some surprises for my KS, but I do have 2-3 bonus art pieces for backers that I plan to introduce around the midway point so I keep some momentum going for my project. But, I got to do some serious promoting going before then!!

For people that managed to read all the conversations between Matt and I and are interested in my Kickstarter project, I am willing to give you a bonus as well if you make a pledge on my Kickstarter. The bonus will depend on your pledge level of course for I do have some different options to offer backers for free. Send me a message when you make your pledge so I can track of you.

Matt, I will still make sure you get a better bonus since you didn't ask for one.

abellius wrote:

Matt,

If you have all these concerns about my Kickstarter, then don't pledge to it. Not a big deal. I prefer to have your support, but I won't be offended if I do not.

There has been great Kickstarters and horrible Kickstarters just like everything...

To be honest, if I had the cash available right now, I probably would (I really am *that* strapped for cash right for the next few weeks due to some nasty big purchases I really shouldn't have made, and juggling bills for the next week or so while I deal with the fallout). I guess I'm hoping that as all I really have to give right now is advice that doing that is at least something that helps :)

And yes, there have been some really horrible Kickstarters, and some really great ones, and I hope yours gets to be one of the latter :) You've certainly got the enthusiasm there as well as the talented team working on it, if the previews are anything to go by.

Mostly, I'm just going over all the things I've been looking into myself over the past two to three months for the Kickstarter I'm hoping to launch closer to the end of the year (which itself is a bad time, I'm realizing, and may delay it a few more months until everyone's recovered from Christmas), so please don't feel I'm targetting you specifically. These are all reasons I've been weighing up myself, so I've just been passing on how I feel about each of them and the advice I've been given by others. I felt the $10k I was looking at was far too much to be asking, and have done my best to reduce the costs down to almost a fifth of that now (which is the reason for me being flat broke at the moment, if I'm honest, as I just ploughed pretty much everything I had into 3D assets for it), as well as constantly working on the product in the background so there'll at least be half of it ready to give to the backers at the time of the Kickstarter itself.

If nothing else, I'll be watching your KS with interest in the hope it does well, as that can only be a good sign for...

No problem and it is appreciated.

What I'm learning now that I should have done before my launch is that I didn't do any pre-hype work for my Kickstarter. I'll remember this next time!!

I tried to reduce my Kickstarter costs to the bare minimum I feel comfortable with. My goal amounts includes no wages for me, so I'm technically working for free and hoping that website sales will make my project worth all the effort and initial investment I put into it. That's assuming my Kickstarter is successful btw. The only way for me to lower my costs is to lower the quality of the art, which is something I will not do. As a FYI, almost all of my stretch goals amounts deal with paying for the additional art, nothing more.

Matt, I would like to make a deal with you. If by chance you do pledge to my Kickstarter at the 6 or 12 month levels, I'll make sure you get an extra bonus for your pledge! Just make sure you message me on Kickstarter when you do.

Ugh, anyway, more positive post time!

As I mentioned above, the great thing here is that there's really not that much that can go wrong, compared to something producing a physical product with moving or electronic parts, and nobody ought to be doubting the fact they'll get their product because of a budget shortfall.

Personally, I'd have preferred to go with a single product rather than the entire year's worth, and reduced the target figure to closer to 2k, but as far as backers are concerned you've given them the option to do that so that's good too.

The artwork really is *very nice* (i.e. at the level I'd expect to see in a printed book from one of the big name publishers), and compared to the page art from someone like <picks at random> Chaosium, it's amazing. (To be fair, Chaosium products sell on their written content and not the artwork, and I love what they do, but some of the line art they use is just plain tacky and around the level I'd expect from a 3pp using stock filler art... in other words, what I'd use myself :) )

Same here.

The main reason I'm going with the subscription route is to keep all the artists on board for the whole project. If I go by month-by-month whenever I may need them, I have a good chance to lose them to other contracts and jobs. They have their bills they need to pay.

Assuming my Kickstarter is successful, I do plan to sell the character artwork as a separate product for people that just want the artwork AND I do plan to sell each month's release as its own product down the road for people that only care about specific months or characters. I want to make my characters to people as much as possible.

I don't want to state what I pay my artists for their work, but it's not cheap. Just go to Angela-T's (website) to get an idea how much these portraits can cost. And, I consider those prices on the cheap side for commercial work.

I want to keep the art top-notched to make my product stick out over others similar to it, so I have to ask for the goal amounts on my page. Like I said, good artwork is not cheap. I wish it was!

It's actually a bit of a legal mess what Kickstarter *is*.

Kickstarter themselves don't guarantee that backers will get what they hoped for.

By the time it hits the time it's overdue, it's past the point that a credit card company or Paypal can intervene on the backer's behalf, and that's what the majority of people rely on.

There has been some success from backers suing the project owner
themselves directly, but most people aren't going to be willing to do that.

In the event of an limited company going under because the project falls through, nobody is liable for the money any more as the entity no longer exists. Individuals can go bankrupt over the amount of money concerned, and again no longer be liable.

Therefore to all intents and purposes it really is a donation, because if you don't deliver they're unlikely to be able to get their money back.

The main issue is, however, that unless the buyer can prove in court they really did preorder a product (and while it's been done, as Kickstarter isn't a sales site it's impossible to say per-project if it qualifies or not) they don't have a leg to stand on. There just isn't the same contract of sale that exists if you preorder something from a company yourself, so the majority of backers that understand the system assume they're making a donation, or investment, and cross their fingers and hope they'll get something back.

Finally, as LMPjr has said above, what you're doing is *very* ambitious for a new 3PP, and is why the majority start off with smaller, cheaper products to build their audience up before doing something of this scale :)
I applaud your ambition here, but would say to be prepared for a plan B if you don't hit the backing target.

Matt,

If you have all these concerns about my Kickstarter, then don't pledge to it. Not a big deal. I prefer to have your support, but I won't be offended if I do not.

There has been great Kickstarters and horrible Kickstarters just like everything else in life. We can debate all day about crowd-sourcing websites and the legalities behind them, but I'll save that for another time.

You and others can say my project is ambitious, but I know exactly what I want to produce and I want the high quality art to back it up. Yes, I could have gone with lesser art to dramatically reduce costs, but then that lowers the quality of my product as well. That goes against what I want to present to other gamers, so I'm going to stay with what I originally plan to do - produce a quality product at a low cost and hope that I get enough backers to keep that cost low. Either you can join me in my endeavor or not.

Hi abellius. I wanted to introduce myself, I am Louis Porter Jr. of LPJ Design.

I saw your kickstarter when it started and I was impressed with the artist names I saw on your list. All of them are very professional and of a high level. I think on the artwork side of things, this should be a successful project. What worried me was the actual execution of doing this type of project for a first time 3PP. I am not sure of your background in the publishing industry but I know for a fact how easy it is to have project cost double due to all kinds of issues and mistakes. The first attempt of Razor Coast showed that even with well known freelancers attached to it. From one 3PP to another that goal of $13K seem like a lot of money (which it is) for a first time 3PP to ask for a fist project.

Also I think it would have been better if you took some time before the kickstarter started to tell people about what you were planning to do. That would have helped draw interest for it. The more people that are interest means the more people will donate. Look at Dragon Kings her talked it up a month before it was up at...

Hey Louis.

I appreciate the warning about budgets. However, being a former quality engineer for 3 different manufacturing plants over the years that were only concerned about cost-per-widget and scrap rates, I crunch the numbers for my project numerous time so I feel comfortable and have no doubts about my goal amounts, even if I have to replace an artist. I have also done my research on how I want to distribute my products and how to create my PDFs efficiently.

I totally agree with you that I should have spent a month or two before my Kickstarter launch to get some hype built up for it and have my website's forums ready on day one. I spent so much time getting my agreements ready and Kickstarter pages in order that I should have spent some more time on my pre-launch promotion. Oh well, no one is perfect. I'll make sure next time that I do this. Engineers were never known to be great PR people!

I think a less pointed way of expressing what other people have said is that even with years of gaming experience, you are starting a business in a very turbulent and capricious industry.

If everyone thought like that, why does anyone start a business nowadays?

Also, you are correct, Kickstarter is not Paypal, but it isn't a donation website either!

To understand ShadowcatX's "handout" statement a bit better, it's important to understand what Kickstarter is and isn't.

Kickstarter is a place where you ask for money to help you fund a project you can't afford to do, and can offer rewards in return.

What it isn't a preordering platform, although it's easy to forget that given the amount of people that appear to use it (often successfully) as such. There's no actual sale of goods, or contract to supply them, just the word of the person launching the Kickstarter that the funds will be used for what they have stated. There's no comeback via Paypal, Kickstarter, or Credit Card companies (as far as I know, as I don't pretend to be a legal expert on these matters) because there wasn't a product ordered or expected other than "if we manage to succeed in this project." People are, in fact, making donations to you in the hope that you'll succeed and they'll get something in return.

Indeed, there have been cases of people being unable to deliver the promised rewards, and saying they've already used all the money on the project but discovered too late it would be too expensive to complete.

That's why, for many, it's important to know the people behind the project and that they're not just Joe Smith writing a Kickstarter page from his computer in the basement and intending to live off the money for the next six months and produce nothing in return - and also why a dollar breakdown of how the requested funds will be dispersed is a good idea, so they can see if it's actually going to be spent or just pocketed. While that doesn't mean you shouldn't include payment to yourself in there, it does mean some people will be looking for capital expenditure that you couldn't otherwise afford (such as Reaper using the money to buy new machinery.), or for materials, or at least seeing what kind of money is being used to employ artists, etc.

Anyway, I hope you understand I'm not posting this to be difficult, only to help understand why some people may seem...

I understand you are not being difficult, but..

Actually, you are incorrect about Kickstarter. I am obliged to supply my backers based on what I promised them as per Kickstarter's rules. You pledge money to my project, and if successful, I create my project and send you the product(s) that your pledge requires me to do so. You are not giving me donations. If they were donations, I am not required to send any of my backers anything. Also, all Kickstarters are pre-orders of products that people want to create. If the product is already created and being sold, why would you use Kickstarter? Kickstarter is suppose to help people who need funds for their projects and to gauge interest.

If you really think Kickstarter is a donation website, is Reaper Miniatures' new Kickstarter a donation project for them to create new minis as well?? Also, did they give you a dollar breakdown of all the expenses of their Kickstarter so you can make sure they are not pocketing anything per say? Furthermore, what percentage of Kickstarters give you their dollar-to-dollar breakdown of their projects?

I understand what you are saying, but Kickstarter isn't a donation website and I'm required to give you what I said I would if successful. You are correct that there isn't any easy way to go after people who lie in their Kickstarters, but you know that risk going in by pledging on any crowd-sourcing project. Btw, you can sue people for not fulfilling their Kickstarter promises. It may not be cost effective, but you can.

Just like numerous other Kickstarter projects, my Kickstarter is my first attempt to break something interesting to the market that you may find useful or enjoyable. If I wanted to hood-winked people, I wouldn't have already invested $2k into the art samples and PDF layout. I do, however, want to bring something I think gamers may want to use in their Pathfinder games and it is up to you if you want to support me or not. That is all I can ask.

@abellius,

I looked again and there is no link in your original post. That is why I asked for one.

Hmmm...link works for me still and I'm using Firefox. I'm not sure what to tell ya.

If you have any questions about my project, let me know.

You may well be right on the 3D art side, I've never actually had to pay anyone for it so I may well be underestimating the cost, I can only go from the amount of time it takes me to produce an image (which makes me wonder if I should look into producing 3D art instead of writing, heh.)

The other issue is that 3D rendered art *looks* rendered, and I find most people don't really appreciate that as an artform as much as something that's been hand-painted (at least, not until you get into full scenes with incredible landscapes that have been hand-touched and edited for hours after rendering.) That's the other reason I felt it's likely cheaper to get hold of.

The overstretching... I just look at the total amount of money you're looking to get via KS and scratch my head. It seems most 3PPs work around things like a $500-1000 maximum budget (often less) for the very first piece of work they put out (with a cost of $0 for the author's own time so it's really all in art, software, editing, and layout), safe in the knowledge that if it doesn't sell they're not going to be too much out of pocket.

High quality artwork isn't cheap as seen from my initial goal. You can easily pay $150+ for bust portraits and go over $300+ for full body ones without any backgrounds. The reason most 3pp production cost $500-$1000 is due that their artwork is minimal, usually B&W, and the art quality is not that great. I also assume that they are not hiring a professional layout artist to create their books as well.

You want excellent quality artwork in your product, you have to pay for it. And, when I'm offering anywhere from 48-72 portraits a year, the cost goes up significantly! However, if I can get enough people to support my project, I can offer high quality artwork at a cheap price just like any other 3pp company. Just because my artwork cost is expensive, if I have enough people supporting it, I can keep the price low and still offer something of excellent quality.

You are correct that most 3D art looks rendered and it take some work in Photoshop or whatever to lessen that rendered look. I do like 3D art as much as 2D, but almost all commercial RPG gaming art is 2D and I don't see any price reductions hiring 3D artists over 2D ones. Making custom 3D models of people, equipment, and terrain is not going to be any cheaper than hiring someone to draw me the same things in Photoshop or Gimp.

I wish you luck on your 3D endeavors!

Who said I was taking a handout? You help me fund my project and you get something in return. Do you think Kickstarter projects are handouts? If that is the case, then I guess you think Kobold Press, Monte Cook, and Reaper Miniatures were asking for handouts for their products too when they ran their Kickstarters.

If you actually wanted to know the artists involved in project, just read my Kickstarter page. Takes about a minute to find out all the details about my Kickstarter.

Shadowcat, it seems from your response that no matter what I say to you is going to satisfy what you want out of me and it appears you want to be negative & confrontational about it as well. If you don't want to support my Kickstarter, that's fine. However, I'm not here to play 100 questions with you, especially when you seem to want to start an argument with me.

My Kickstarter offers samplers if you have concerns about what I'm offering as a new player in the industry. If you feel $4 or $6 is too much of a risk, then don't pledge.

I'm tempted to say that for your first project you may be overstretching yourself (although I do wish you well and hope I'm wrong!) There's a reason most 3PPs go cheap on the art, and that's because they're not expecting to sell enough copies to cover it until they've built up a name and reputation, and mostly players want to get the text as cheap as possible.

One thing I would have suggested is to offer non-artwork options to see how many people would rather have the text-only product and not pay for the art at all, to see whether it's worth getting it done at all, or just in a simpler line-art format. A full-color drawing for a character is nice and all, but I'm not 100% convinced it's all that important to the average player.

You may also find that (unless you've found artists that will do custom color artwork really cheaply for you) having 3D artist produce a rendered image is cheaper than you think - I'm actually planning on doing my own to save on paying for artwork, seeing as I have the software and models from other things I was doing a couple of years ago, and the time to assemble and pose the model, and then get the lighting right is inevitably cheaper (for now at least, while I have spare time to burn on it) than paying someone else to draw what I want - maybe 1-2 hours at most for a full-color closeup on the head.

Anyway, good luck!

EDIT: Just to finish on a non-negative note, it *does* look fantastic!

Thanks.

I may be overstretching on my product, but all it takes is about 200 yearlong subscribers to fund my KS project at the cost of buying a hardcover book on Paizo's webs store. To be honest, that's not a lot of money over a year's time frame.

Trust me. Doing excellent 3D art is not cheap or is done quickly. If it was as cheap as you say it is, then why doesn't Paizo or other gaming companies use it in their products? Also, how long do you think it takes to make the custom models to use in your 3D art? I'm not saying this to be negative, but I think 3D artists are no cheaper than 2D artists if you want something of excellent quality.

Ok basic information time:

Have you (or your team) ever published anything before? Have you ever done anything for Pathfinder before? What made you decide you would be able to open a publishing company? Why should we have faith in your company?

Every company starts from nothing, Paizo included. Every product you buy has a risk that it doesn't meet up to your expectations. The risk is very low for reputable companies, but there is always a risk.

With that said, I am tossing my hat into the ring of RPG publishing and see if my RPG products is worth your money and to be used in your RPG games. Being a gamer myself, I plan to offer products that I think other gamers may find useful and produce them at an affordable price with high quality art. This may be my corporate quality engineer side speaking, but even gamers want decent quality products that don't cost them an arm & leg to purchase.

As to your questions --

No, my company hasn't published anything before since this is our first attempt to make something official. However, all the artists on our team have work for Paizo or other gaming companies in the past. Also, being a former quality engineer and database programmer, I have written numerous quality procedures and documentation for my previous employers over the years, so I do have a decent understanding when it comes to writing and publishing. Taking the jump from writing quality documents to creating a gaming book isn't that much of a leap, especially when I enjoy playing RPGs.

No, we haven't written anything for Pathfinder before since this is our first product. All companies have to start from something. I do want to mention that all the artists on our team are experienced and have worked gaming companies in the past. Also, the lead designer, which is me, has been playing Pathfinder since the beta and has been involved in RPG games since 1st ed. AD&D that was released many years ago. Saying that makes me feel older than I am!

Why did I decide to try to start a 3pp gaming company? Mainly due that I'm a RPG gamer at heart and I want to pursue something that I enjoy doing instead of being an engineer & IT tech working in a typical big corporate environment.

Since my company doesn't have a track record as of yet, it's hard for me to say honestly that we are the next best company to come on the scene and you should have complete faith in us. However, to show that our first product is something worthwhile for you to look into, our Kickstarter offer samplers to try our first product out and the cost for them is no more than eating out at a fast food restaurant for dinner.

I hope that answers your questions.

This is a cool project idea and the artwork is great in the sample shots, so I'm sure this will be successful. I understand the financial reasoning of doing this subscription style, but I'd love to see this eventually be marketed so that you have a catalog of characters with maybe a small picture and brief description so a purchaser could pick out the individual characters they want to buy on an as-needed basis. Also, like I said the artwork is very good, but if I was going to nitpick I'd prefer (speaking more about ones like the gnome and elven cleric specifically) a little bit more added detailed skinning/texturing when it comes to things like the skin/clothing so it looks a little less monotextural/monochromatic to give more realism and depth. Maybe not this extreme as that would be incredibly time consuming and expensive, but just a little more. Good luck on your project! /bump

If this Kickstarter is successful, I plan to sell the characters separately by month, and maybe individuality if feasible. Obviously, if you subscribe, then the cost of CBL per month or by character goes down significantly. If price is a concern, my Kickstarter offers a month sampler that costs as much as buying lunch at a fast food restaurant.

Artwork for my project is very expensive and is the majority of the cost of my product. If I went cheap on the art like most 3pp products, I could easily drop my Kickstarter goal to 1/3 or even 1/4 the amount of what it is. If you want good quality art in a product, you have to pay for it! Also, it takes time for the artists to draw high quality art, so that is the main reason I went the subscription route.

Now, the picture you link to is a 2D/3D mixture character. I bet to create one of those types of pictures would take longer to produce and cost way more than what I even paying now for my art. Due to cost, I will not look into commissioning that style of art until I see Paizo, WOTC, and other major gaming publishers start using them in their works. There is 2 reasons you don't see those types of pictures in RPG gaming products - cost and long production time.

Firefox does not recognize the link.

Link should work in the title in my original post, but here's the link again -

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/danbrink/cbl-characters-by-level-for-pa thfinder-rpg

CBL: Characters-By-Level for Pathfinder RPG Kickstarter

CBL is a Pathfinder compatible gaming aid that consists of pre-generated NPCs that come with Hero Lab portfolios and high quality character art files. All the NPCs come with stat blocks for levels 1-20 so they can be used in any Pathfinder campaign regardless of level.

If you just want the character art files, they are offered as its own package called GA: Game Avatars. Examples of the character art can be seen on the Kickstarter page.

This is our first project that we hope you find useful for your games.

Dan Brink and the rest of the Rabid Hamster Workshop team thank you in advance for your support!

How did you guys get Anry Nemo to do artwork for your cover? He hasn't been producing art since 2004 I believe. Also, the cover art you are using is a picture that Anry drew back in 1999 and the shaman has normal white skin instead of blue.

I would like to know this as well.