White Wyrm's page

Recently, I played a game of 3.5 with a group whose only experience was with 4E. We had all met during Encounters and they wanted to try something different. We rolled up characters and decided to play without a battle map or minis. It ended up being very short but very heavy roleplaying session, with there being a very clear disconnect for the new players but they adjusted. Overall, everyone had a good time.

4E definitely lends itself to a particular style of play. Maybe "modular" isn't the word, but I found that most turns involve very sequential action; you move, you attack, you roll dice. It can tremendously satisfying when a well-orchestrated set of maneuvers is executed well. Similarly, this was difficult for me to pick up on coming from 3.5 and Pathfinder. Needless to say, I made a lot of happy accidents in the beginning.

I found that it is my preferred playstyle for a casual two hour game. Most often times though, I prefer something with a little more narrative. I run a regular bi-weekly Pathfinder game that has been going on for over a year. It is very hack-n-slash and the players do a great job at describing their actions in combat. Some times though, especially for longer combats, it has a tendency to degenerate into sequential actions and begins to feel a lot like something else.

I guess after all of that I would like to know is do you have a preferred style of play? Do you like it when the players tell where exactly they're going to swing their axe? Do you prefer minis and a battle map? Have you found that you go between the two?

Thats not all though. the idea that we encourage people to be so thin skinned is getting out of control. that we coddle and encourage weakness instead of strength and not letting others get to us. Yes intentional and unintentional prejudice should be looked at but it too must not go too silly

There's definitely something to be said about having a glass jaw, and there comes a point where over-sensitivity becomes its own kind of prejudice. It comes with it the danger of condescension, quotas, and preferential treatment and no one should be treated differently from anyone else. This is certainly the case when one group is put down, as per my initial proposal of excluding small races, where I think a lot of the negative feedback is came from. I see that error in trading comments with those who thoughtfully engaged in the topic.

As per the silliness, a lot of silly things have been said on this thread.

Because when you are too touchy to handle life maybe it isn't every one else that has the problem

Your offense at non-offensiveness is astounding...

But yours is not the minority view, a lot of people have seemed to have taken it personally. The question could feel like an accusation and no one likes to think of themselves as some sort of bigot, so it's natural that people like yourself to get defensive.

I think too many people come to this thread seeing "Are Halflings Offensive?" and instead read "Halflings Are Offensive!"

Talk about overreacting and taking something out of context. There is nothing wrong with the smaller races in Pathfinder if they are not used as caricatures. Next we are going to discuss banning anything that is green because Kermit sang a song once. Present and play these races with maturity and there should be no problem.

Sure, not every question is asked in innocence and what you would have read had you been following the thread is that I actually agree with you; that these portrayals have been sadly one-dimensional in the past and before modern filmmaking they were played by actors like Dinklage. What we do is a lot different, but what I proposed was for my game and how I could possibly do things differently. Not for your game or anyone elses'.

You see, problem is that if most people with those disabilities don't find things such as halflings or gnomes offensive, why the hell would you?

I think that, even when coming from outside of gaming, when someone expresses similar kinds of feelings as Peter Dinklage did that it is something one should at least consider. I wasn't implying that he speaks for everyone, and there's a difference between having to play roles he finds demeaning and what we do. I agree with you that we shouldn't be treating anyone differently, but I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to be inclusive.

Thanks for those who have taken the time to write thoughtful responses.

I think the main point of contention is that if someone is playing a character that is 4'5" or shorter, he or she is playing something other than a human. Although I don't know anyone in my personal life with achondroplasia, I can try to see it from their perspective and understand how it could feel degrading.

I think Trinite has it right;

What would be interesting to me, perhaps, would be to build an actual human character with dwarfism in a setting that also has halflings, gnomes and dwarves, and explore the implications of people assuming that he's not a human based on his appearance.

Maybe there could be an alternate racial trait for humans to make them small?

I have played halfling and dwarf characters in the past and I did not bring this up to be the politically correct police. I hadn't given this a whole lot of thought until now and it costs nothing to try to see where other people are coming from.

Hi, this is my first post on this part of the messageboards but it has been something I have been thinking about a lot lately. I am contemplating the idea of not including the typical small player races in the campaign setting I am writing, prompted by Peter Dinklage's comments:

"I try not to read too much into it, but there's a bit of a bias, where you're thought of as a mystical creature, which is a bit absurd... I have a great sense of humor -- and a dark sense of humor -- about everything, but it is a bit narrow-minded sometimes, where if they have a dwarf character, the shoes have to curl up at the end, he has this inherent wisdom, he isn't sexual, all of that. You look at something like 'Snow White,' and each of the dwarves is just one thing -- this one sneezes, this one is angry, this one is tired. And that's sometimes still true for modern-day stories..."

It is not my intention to get people angry, hurt, or offended. I have a lot of respect for the Paizo community and its fans. I just want to hear peoples' opinions on this.

I'm not going to change things in my current campaign, but I'm becomming unenamored of how iterative attacks seem to be dominating tactics. I would much prefer that the PCs and monsters use mobility and positioning to their advantages rather than standing still so that they can get in their four attacks per round. The multiple attacks are really bogging down the pace of my game-- especially since in every big fight, the wizard casts haste!

I'd like to set things so that on a full attack, anyone could hit a bit harder than normal, or do something else that's cool, but no longer make multiple strikes per round. (Unless you had feats like Whirlwind Attack, or Cleave, or something like that.)

At the same time, I don't want to take away too much from the martial classes.

I was thinking along the lines of the following...

When a character makes a Full Attack action, for every +5 of his or her BAB, he takes an additional +2 to hit and damage, and all hits do double the damage dice. (e.g. a greatsword would do 4d6 damage).

Of course, this mostly duplicates Vital Strike. However, it greatly increases the liklihood that PCs would take feats that do allow extra attacks, like TWF, Cleave, Whirlwind Attack, etc.

Thoughts? Has anyone else come up with something along the same lines that is working for you?

Hey Haladir, I didn't try quite what you were suggesting but I did attempted something similar in my game a while back. Instead of iterative attacks, I used the following rules making it easier to score critical hits:

Base Attack Bonus: This is added as normal, but a character doesn't benefit from additional attacks, unless he or she has an alternate mode of attack (such as a bite attack) or a class feature or feat that allows the character to do so (such as the Two-Weapon Fighting feat or Flurry of Blows).

Rolling a Natural 20: The attack is a critical hit any time a player rolls a natural 20 on an attack roll.

Threatening a Critical Hit: A player that threatens a critical hit with a die roll lower than a natural 20, such as a wielding a rapier or having the Improved Critical feat, must still roll high enough to hit the target. If the attack hits, it's a critical hit.

While this did have the effect of speeding up the round, it made encounters last way too long. I don't think what you are suggesting will necessarily break the game and if you try it out, I would be interested to hear how it pans out.

It looks good, did you do any play testing?

Thanks Arkady. Unfortunately, it has not been through a playtest.

Admittedly, there are a lot of brawler, wrestler, and unarmed archetypes floating around out there. I wanted to see a western version of the monk, given a similar treatment that Ultimate Combat presented us with the samurai and ninja. I really liked the sort of scoring mechanic of the gunslinger and felt it appropriately mimicked the feel of someone who gets by on a combination of toughness, skill and luck.

Hit Dice: 1d8
Alignment: Any nonlawful

Skill Points per Level: 4 + Int

Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str).

Base Attack Bonus: 3/4 class level
Saves: Good Fortitude, Good Reflex, Good Will
Monk Ability Progression: Unarmed Strike, Fast Movement

Class Abilities
1. Exploits, grit, ki strike +1, unarmed strike, Toughness
2. Evasion
3. Exploits, fast movement, maneuver training
4. Ki strike +2 (magic)
5. Fearless
6. Unrelenting +1
7. Exploits, ki strike (cold iron/silver)
8. Ki strike +2
9. Improved evasion
10. Ki strike (chaotic), unrelenting +2
11. Exploits, unrelenting +3
12. Ki strike +3
13. Damage reduction 1/—
14. Unrelenting +4
15. Exploits
16. Damage reduction 2/—, ki strike (adamantine)
17. Ki strike +4
18. Unrelenting +5
19. Damage reduction 3/—, exploits
20. Ferocious grit, unrelenting +6

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Bruisers are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the garrote, handaxe, kukri, sap, spiked armor, short sword, throwing axe, and close weapons. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields. When medium or heavy wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a bruiser loses fast movement, ki strikes, and unrelenting abilities.

Grit (Ex): Bruisers possess remarkable reserves of willpower and grit. Grit is a fluctuating measure of a bruiser’s ability to perform amazing actions in combat. At the start of each day, a bruiser gains a number of grit points equal to his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). His grit goes up or down throughout the day, but usually cannot go higher than his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), though some feats and magic items may affect this maximum. A bruiser spends grit to accomplish exploits (see below), and regains grit in the following ways.

Critical Hit with a Close Weapon or Unarmed Strike: Each time the bruiser confirms a critical hit with a close weapon or unarmed attack while in the heat of combat, he regains 1 grit point. Confirming a critical hit on a helpless or unaware creature or on a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the bruiser’s character level does not restore grit.

Killing Blow with a Close Weapon or Unarmed Strike: When the bruiser reduces a creature to 0 or fewer hit points with a close weapon or unarmed attack while in the heat of combat, he regains 1 grit point. Destroying an unattended object, reducing a helpless or unaware creature to 0 or fewer hit points, or reducing a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the bruiser’s character level to 0 or fewer hit points does not restore any grit.

Exploits: Bruisers spend grit points to accomplish exploits. Most exploits grant the bruiser some momentary bonus or effect, but there are some that provide longer-lasting effects. Some exploits stay in effect as long as the bruiser has at least 1 grit point. The following is the list of base bruiser exploits. A bruiser can only perform exploits of his level or lower. Unless otherwise noted, an exploit can be performed multiple successive times, as long as the appropriate amount of grit is spent to perform the exploit.

Flurry of Blows (Ex): At 1st level, a bruiser can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of close weapons or unarmed attacks as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the bruiser does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the bruiser's base attack bonus from his bruiser class levels is equal to his bruiser level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the bruiser uses his normal base attack bonus.

A bruiser applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A bruiser may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A bruiser cannot use any weapon other than a close weapon or unarmed strike as part of a flurry of blows. A bruiser with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks. Performing this exploit costs 1 grit point.

Improvised Weapons: Broken bottles, chairs, a sack of potatoes—all are more than suitable weapons for a bruiser. At 1st level, a bruiser can wield improvised weapons as if using the Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything feats. Regardless of the object’s shape and size, a bruiser deals 1d6 damage with an improvised weapon. This damage is bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing depending on the object. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals triple damage on a critical hit. An improvised weapon is destroyed and becomes useless on a natural roll of 1. The bruiser must have at least 1 grit point to perform this exploit.

Shrug Off (Ex): At 1st level, a bruiser gains incredible toughness and is able to forestall the effects of taking damage. A bruiser can ignore points of damage equal to his bruiser level + his Constitution modifier until the end of his next turn. This ability does not delay any other effects of an attack other than damage, such as poison or stunned. Performing this exploit costs 1 grit point.

Clear Headed (Ex): At 3rd level, the bruiser can spend 1 grit point to remove daze, staggered, or stunned conditions.

Knockdown (Ex): At 3rd level, after hitting with a close weapon or unarmed attack, the bruiser can send opponents off their feet. A bruiser using this exploit gains the trip special attack. He can trip creatures his own size or one size category larger. The bruiser must have at least 1 grit point to perform this exploit. Alternatively, if the bruiser spends 1 grit point to perform this exploit, he can use this ability against larger creatures.

Smashing Blow (Ex): At 3rd level, a bruiser ignores 1 point of hardness when striking an item or object. A bruiser can ignore additional points of hardness equal to half his bruiser level (maximum 10 points at 20th level). Performing this exploit costs 1 grit point.

Bone Breaker (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action, the bruiser can make a single attack with a close weapon or unarmed attack and choose part of the body to target. He gains the following effects depending on the part of the body targeted. If a creature does not have one of the listed body locations, that part cannot be targeted. This exploit costs 1 grit point to perform no matter which part of the creature he targets. Creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are immune to these effects.
Arms: On a hit, the target takes no damage from the hit but drops one carried item of the bruiser’s choice, even if the item is wielded with two hands. Items held in a locked gauntlet are not dropped on a hit.
Head: On a hit, the target is damaged normally, and is also confused for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Legs: On a hit, the target is damaged normally and knocked prone. Creatures that have four or more legs or that are immune to trip attacks are immune to this effect.
Torso: Targeting the torso threatens a critical on a 19–20.
Wings: On a hit, the target is damaged normally, and must make a DC 20 Fly check or fall 20 ft.

Sure Grip (Ex): At 7th level, the bruiser gains the grab special attack when using unarmed strikes, and can use this ability against creatures his own size or smaller by spending 1 grit point, or against larger creatures by spending 2 grit points.

Wholeness of Body (Ex): At 7th level, a bruiser can spend 1 grit point to heal his own wounds as a standard action. He can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to his bruiser level.

Knock-Out (Ex): At 11th level, whenever the bruiser makes an attack roll that threatens a critical hit with a close weapon or unarmed attack, he can spend 1 grit point to potentially knock an opponent unconscious. Rather than rolling to confirm a critical hit, he rolls 1d6 per bruiser level and if the result is equal to or greater than creature’s current hit points, the opponent becomes unconscious. If the result is lower than the creature’s current hit points, then the attack is treated as a normal hit. Creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are also immune to this ability.

Stand Your Ground (Ex): At 11th level, an opponent attempting to bull rush, overrun, reposition or trip a bruiser must roll twice. The bruiser must have at least 1 grit point to perform this exploit.

Improved Flurry of Blows (Ex): At 11th level, the bruiser can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the bruiser does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). Performing this exploit costs 1 grit point.

Defensive Roll (Ex): At 15th level, when the bruiser has at least 1 grit point, the bruiser can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than he otherwise would. Once per day, when he would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the bruiser can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, the bruiser must attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt). If the save succeeds, he takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, he takes full damage. He must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute his defensive roll—if he is denied his Dexterity bonus to AC, he can't use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, the bruiser's evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll.

Greater Flurry of Blows (Ex): At 15th level, the bruiser can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the bruiser does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). Performing this exploit costs 1 grit point.

Crushing Grip (Ex): At 15th level, the bruiser can use the constrict special attack, inflicting his unarmed strike damage on any successful grapple check. The bruiser must have at least 1 grit point to perform this exploit.

Cheat Death (Ex): At 19th level, whenever the bruiser is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points, he can spend all of his remaining grit points (minimum 1) to instead be reduced to 1 hit point.

Deadly Blow (Ex): At 19th level, when the bruiser scores a critical hit with a close weapon or unarmed attack, he can spend 1 grit point to deal normal damage, and the target must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the bruiser’s level + the bruiser’s Wisdom modifier. On a failed saving throw, the target dies. This is a death attack. Performing this exploit does not allow the bruiser to regain grit from confirming a critical hit or making a killing blow.

Deadly Grip (Ex): At 19th level, if a bruiser maintains a pin for more than 3 rounds, he can spend 2 grit points and chooses one of the following three effects: the target can be put to sleep for 1d4 hours, paralyzed for 2d6 rounds, or slain. Regardless of the effect chosen, the target receives a Fortitude save to negate the additional effect. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the bruiser's level + the bruiser's Strength modifier. Once a creature has been the targeted by this ability, regardless of whether or not the save is made, that creature is immune for 24 hours. Creatures that are immune to sneak attack damage are also immune to this ability.

Ki Strike (Su): A bruiser’s unarmed attacks are empowered with ki energy. At 1st level, a bruiser gains a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls with close weapons and unarmed attacks. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels.
At 4th level, his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 10th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as cold iron and silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 16th level, his unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and bypassing hardness. A bruiser loses all these benefits while wearing medium armor or using a shield.

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a bruiser gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A bruiser’s attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a bruiser may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a bruiser striking unarmed. A bruiser may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.

Usually a bruiser’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A bruiser’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

A bruiser also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown above on Table: bruiser. The unarmed damage values listed on Table: monk is for Medium bruisers. A Small bruiser deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large bruiser deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large bruiser Unarmed Damage.

Toughness: At 1st level, a bruiser gains Toughness as a bonus feat.

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level or higher, a bruiser can avoid damage from many area-effect attacks. If a bruiser makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a bruiser is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless bruiser does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a bruiser gains an enhancement bonus to his land speed, as shown on Table: bruiser. A bruiser in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.

Maneuver Training (Ex): At 3rd level, a bruiser uses his bruiser level in place of his base attack bonus when calculating his Combat Maneuver Bonus. Base attack bonuses granted from other classes are unaffected and are added normally.

Unrelenting (Ex): At 3rd level, a bruiser gains a +1 bonus to his Armor Class while charging and against rolls to confirm critical hits. This bonus increases to +2 when the bruiser reaches 6th level, to +3 when he reaches 9th level, to +4 when he reaches 12th level, to +5 at 15th, and to +6 at 18th level.

Fearless (Ex): At 5th level, a bruiser becomes immune to fear effects.

Damage Reduction (Ex): At 7th level, a bruiser gains damage reduction. Subtract 1 from the damage the bruiser takes each time she is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 10th level, and every three bruiser levels thereafter (13th, 16th, and 19th level), this damage reduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.

Improved Evasion: At 9th level, a bruiser's evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless bruiser does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Ferocious Grit (Ex): At 20th level, after a bruiser spends a grit point his next attack with a close weapon or unarmed attack deals the maximum amount of damage.