W Canepa's page

Can't really post images anymore on the forums, but here's the link to Battle Wizard Magic Game. I hope you'll check it out - would love to hear your thoughts! Lots of images of the game and the various bits.

www.indiegogo.com/projects/battle-wizard-magic-game

It's a miniatures-agnostic rules lite tactical skirmish game about wizards battling (or working together in cooperative mode!).

Wizards each have 6 stats (WAK, INT, ZAP, AIM, RES, DEF).

Wizards each have 4 slots to equip with useful items called Swag.

A new wizard will roll 2 Powers and pick one of them, giving them a unique special power that might give them an edge in the game.

Wizards can take 3 actions each turn chosen from a list of 5 actions (Move, Attack, Guard, Invoke, and Cast). Wizards can take the same action more than once, but some actions have diminishing returns (for example, each additional attack rolls 2 less dice, and each additional spell must both cost less energy to cast than any cast before it and also be a different spell from any cast before it that turn by that wizard).

Wizards all have access to 6 spells (Heal, Nuke, Push, Trap, Wall, Ward) as well as the ability to Counter spells when it isn't their turn if they have the available energy. Some spells have different effects depending on what energy was spent to cast them!

The 5 energy types are Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Chaos. Wizards each have 5 draw piles of 10 of each energy type (50 cards total), and have a magic pool of 10 energy cards. They begin play with 2 of each of the 5 energy cards, but this composition can change throughout the game (this is a core part of the strategies in the game).

Movement and spell ranges are all determined by standard playing cards (2.5" x 3.5"), the same size as the energy cards. Distances are measured in 1 Long or Short side of a card (1L or 1S), as well as 1 Foot (1F). 2L + 2S = 1F!

Most spells are cast by 'Zapping' energy cards (think 'tapping' in MtG, and you have the idea), turning the card sideways to indicate that energy card has been used until the wizard's next turn — but some cards can be used directly in play...

Energy cards are also used for spell effects on the battlefield! Nuke spells are much like fireballs, but their effects are based on their energy type, however their are of effect is determined by the area of a single playing card! Wall spells require 2 same-type energy cards be removed from a wizard's energy pool and be placed back-to-back horizontally into a card clip or pawn stand to form a wall segment — as long as a wizard has at least 2 energy cards of the same type per wall segment, they may cast a large contiguous wall if their ZAP stat is high enough! The Ward and Trap spells require a wizard to place a card onto the battlefield, either face-down and directly under the wizard for a Ward or face-up for Traps. Traps can have more than 1 of the same type of card cast this way at the same time, so long as each card contiguously touches at least 1 other card from that Trap!

When wizards use the Invoke action, they may either draw 1 card from any of their 5 draw piles into their magic pool, or they may exchange up to 2 cards from their magic pool for any 2 cards from their draw piles. Drawing this way can temporarily increase the number of cards in a wizard's magic pool above 10, but they will discard back to their limit at the start of their next turn. Casting Walls, Traps, and Wards is also a way to store excess energy in play, as some of those cards can be drawn back into the wizard's energy pool later! (For example, a wizard might cast a 2-segment wall and a 1-card Trap on a turn, then on the next turn Invoke twice to draw 2 cards, dismiss the Walls and Trap to regain the cards, and then cast a spell as their third action with all the additional energy cards they now have available!)

Terrain impacts play, but has easy-to-remember rules. For example, blocking terrain provides Cover, and Cover reduces any damage the wizard takes by half. Hindering terrain forces movement to end as soon as a wizard enters it, and requires them to move 1S per move instead of 1L when they start in it.

There are a number of different scenarios included in the rules, and there are also cooperative and solo modes! There are rules for fielding small warbands of minions to aid your wizard, as well. Many of the scenarios can be combined for further replayability.

There is also a free 3rd party creator license so that other game designers can create compatible content and use the BWMG compatibility logo on their creations!

While you can play with any miniatures, components, and cards you like, there are official 3D-printable battle wizard meeples and 2D pawns, as well as other game bits like card stands and tokens. The crowdfunding is to pay for the costs of card art for the 5 different spell cards, as well as a few other additional print-and-play components so that all of those can release at the same time!

The rulebook and the 3D-printable components are all finished.

Only 1 week and some change left to get in on the game early to help suppor the card art getting done sooner. I really am excited to hear what you all think. If you cannot support or it isn't your jam, I hope you'll share on social media to give it a signal boost!

I just launched a new RPG zine called Dungeon Plumbers. It focuses on adding dieselpunk elements to your games, as well as providing content that is compatible with most d20-based systems.

Inspired by Super Mario Bros, The Rocketeer, Fullmetal Alchemist, Tank Girl, Hellboy, City of Lost Children, Final Fantasy VII (FF7), and many others, Dungeon Plumbers will be an ongoing zine that delved into zome weird corners of sci-fantasy.

Pathfinder already provides the Alchemist and Gunslinger, which fit perfectly in the dieselpunk fantasy genre, and many of their adventure paths feature early 20th century analogues! I can totally see my zine providing value to people using Pathfinder, as well as other games!

-Wayne

www.kickstarter.com/projects/waynerobert/dungeon-plumbers-vol-1

Link formatting won't work, sorry. :P

www.kickstarter.com/projects/waynerobert/dungeon-plumbers-vol-1

Only 40 more backers at the $25 tier needed to reach funding!

My buddy, who is a professional escape artist (!) and I are super stoked to try and fund artwork for a kickstarter campaign setting and adventure. It will have a rules light system compatible with OSR/5th edition/and 3rd edition style system. Give it a look!

Any publicity helps; we're halfway there with organic word of mouth so far.

KICKSTARTER LINK HERE

It's moot now; we ended up going a different route.

I'm okay with that if players choose to go that route. It would be in fitting with the setting. Very little magic is still known or used, and what is known and used is pretty familiar.

If it becomes a problem, I can add the feats Magic Initiate and Ritual Caster back to the mix, or even allow learning a spell of X level in relation to what a character can already cast in place of a Feat or something.

I am really not too worried about it. It is a low-magic, high fantasy setting. Mages are rare, and their differences are their paths and how they decide to interact with the world.

I feel that the variety of mages will be similar to the variety of fighters.

I really just want to know how people think these rules hold up. Did I leave any gaping, broken combos out there? Did I make spellcasters unplayable? Are the spellblights and defiling magic too harsh or easily prone to abuse? Etc.

If you click on the Spells by School and Level spoiler bar above, you will see that all spells that I am keeping from 5E from all classes are now divided into 5 schools of magic.

The role differentiation is now a mixture of which Path the mage chooses and which spells they choose to know.

Much like fighters are differentiated by their paths, feats, equipment, etc.

Yeah, you would know the answer to that if you had read what I posted. But thanks for attempting to engage through Socratic dialogue.

Hi GM Rednal!

In this homebrew universe, divine magic no longer exists, and all spellcasters are essentially arcane sorcerers that approach how they learned and developed their sorcery in different ways.

There are no pacts with outsiders, therefore no warlocks. There is no connection to the gods of other planes, hence no cleric or paladin. Using energy from nature actually defiles the land, a la Dark Sun, so Druid-types are just sorcerers that are protectors of nature. Wizards are sorcerers that have supplemented their learning with spellbooks and other wizardly ways. And the different paths I have created are essentially, mechanically the same as a sorcerer's origin or any other class' subclass features.

There is only one spell list, and any mage can access all the spells I listed, but they are still limited by the normal rules of learning new spells. Spells now have different schools, and some spells have changed level or no longer exist (I also added 2 Pathfinder spells to the Necromancy school: decompose corpse and restore corpse, as I felt they filled a niche not covered by existing spells, and the Necromancy school was a little light on spells).

I am not sure what you mean, but would love any feedback or criticism you have regarding balance and playability!

I have created a Dropbox link to the Mage class PDF to avoid formatting issues.

Mage Class 5E Dropbox File

Hey all, looooonnnggg time since I've been on here.

Played lots of games and campaigns (even finished Emerald Spire start to finish over a 2 year span) in the interim. Recently started playing 5e last year, and have decided to try my hand running a game with that system this fall/winter for my group. (Been running D&D/Pathfinder for over 15 years now.)

One of my goals was to go back to my homebrew roots, and only use prepublished materials in small doses when the setting, region, or narrative could call for it.

Another is that the setting is high fantasy, but relatively low-magic-at-large. Individual spellcasters not already running kingdoms, aligned with some Guild, or the like are few and far between.

Also, magic is wild, potentially dangerous to the world, and the setting calls for conjuration magic and divine magic to no longer exist.

Lots of bits.

Regardless, I have some house rules for magic and spellcasting, and have rolled all the 5e spellcasters into one Mage class with different Magical Paths. Further, there are 5 schools of magic. Some spells no longer exist, others switched schools, etc. My list is comprehensive for my game in terms of known and available magic. Further, while 7th to 9th level spells exist and are known, they are not automatic class features, and must be quested for, essentially.

I will post what I have, and feedback is welcomed! I still have a few months before I plan to run this game.

The only other house rules are disallowing the Paladin and spellcasting/magical archetypes from Barbarian, Rogue, and Fighter, and modifying the Ranger to me magic-free, as well as having some different racial and cultural traits for the races to fit the setting. I MIGHT use a simplified carrying capacity system, but might not. Otherwise, I like 5e.

I will post the Mage class in a minute.

Order 4374424 is still pending. Please advise.

3/5 items say they ship in 1-7 business days. 1 item says it ships in 7-10 business days and the other 6-18 business days.

August 2nd is 18 business days after the order was placed on July 7th, so assuming the entire shipment is waiting on the last item, I'll check back then.

Thanks for pointing me to the estimated shipping time.

How long between placing an order and it being shipped, typically? Thanks!

Abraham: That was well-written. Those are precisely the circumstances that are under contention. I FAQ'd your post.

And honestly, as for the winter witch specifically? It only says they must choose their familiar from a smaller list than normally available. It doesn't alter any of its function, really. Then, SWD outright replaces the familiar (limited or not) with the fetish mask.

Abraham: Yes, that's how I interpret it, too.

Bverji is correct about the Winter Witch/Scarred Witch Doctor. They are compatible, and they have shown ample evidence to support their assertion. Your game, your table, feel free to interpret the rules differently. Bverji even has FAQ on their side.

I get that it's not a popular interpretation, but it holds water.

The *only* argument against it, and hasn't been addressed, is this:

"Alternate Class Features
Most of the options presented on the following pages include a host of alternate class features. When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here. Each alternate class feature replaces a specific class feature from its parent class. For example, the elemental fist class feature of the monk of the four winds replaces the stunning fist class feature of the monk. When an archetype includes multiple class features, a character must take all of them—often blocking the character from ever gaining certain familiar class features, but replacing them with equally powerful options. All of the other class features found in the core class and not mentioned among the alternate class features remain unchanged and are acquired normally when the character reaches the appropriate level (unless noted otherwise). A character who takes an alternate class feature does not count as having the class feature that was replaced when meeting any requirements or prerequisites.

A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the core class as another alternate class feature. For example, a paladin could not be both a hospitaler and an undead scourge since they both modify the smite evil class feature and both replace the aura of justice class feature. A paladin could, however, be both an undead scourge and a warrior of the holy light, since none of their new class features replace the same core class feature."

Thing is, bverji's interpretation of "or" is sound, English major here. Aside from that, bverji's other evidence holds up. However, if you want to argue against their case, the *only* way to to that, as written, is to argue semantics based on the first bit of "EACH alternate class feature REPLACES a specific class feature from its parent class." As such, you could argue that since the winter witch archetype lists Familiar as a feature, that even though it only alters it, it also simultaneously REPLACES it.

That's a case of rules as intended. And that, it seems, bverji's evidence from the FAQ supports his assertions, like it or not.

So, I am a player in a group that decided to dig down to the next level, spending tons of time excavating, to root out any evil below. I've run RotRL in the past,

Yeah. About that.

I know this is a realllyyy old thread, but there are some problems here.

Bolas DO use your Dex on ranged trip attempts. Weapon Finesse IS applied to trip/disarm attempts with weapons affected by Weapon Finesse.

This does NOT affect Agile Maneuvers, as that feat allows you to apply your Dex modifier to ALL CMB checks, not just weapons listen in the Weapon Finesse feat.

The reason I'm even on this thread, is I'm trying to find out why there is a damage listing for bolas.

When you make your ranged trip attempt, do you deal damage if you're successful? Do you have to choose whether to just deal damage with an attack OR to trip with a combat maneuver? Do you have to make a ranged attack roll, and then attempt a trip maneuver as a free action afterward (I think what the OP was asking)?

A *much* delayed response on my end, if it even matters at this point... :)

Missing comma in the Warloghe's Role section (needs a comma after the first 'Warloghes'):
Warloghes often known as oath-breakers, are shunned or hunted by civilized cultures...

-Agreed on the first comma

Abuse of commas in the Role section here (I don't think there should be either of them around 'as necromancers', and it's missing one after 'spritiualists'):
A small number of warloghes are surprisingly civilized, blending in with the lowest dregs of society, as necromancers, or as charlatans and spiritualists preying on the grief of those who have lost loved ones.

Perhaps this would be smoother:
A small number of warloghes are surprisingly civilized, blending in with the lowest dregs of society as necromancers, charlatans, or spiritualists, preying on the grief of those who have lost loved ones.

The terms "lowest dregs of society" and "necromancers" were meant to be separate categories, as some cultures may exalt necromancers. I also meant that 'charlatans and spiritualists prey upon the grief of those who have lost people,' and not that the necromancers and lowest dregs of society did. You misread my intent (no worries!), and I feel my commas were correct with my train of thought. I could have used slightly different punctuation, such as, "A small number of warloghes are surprisingly civilized; they blend in as members of the lowest dregs of society, as necromancers, and as charlatan spiritualists who prey on the grief of those who have lost loved ones." (With, "who prey on the grief of those who have lost loved ones" being optional in this case.)

Grasp of the dead doesn't explain what it takes to escape the grapple of the skeletal arms. Or is the intent that they they are grappled just for 1 round if they fail the Reflex save? Also, what is the calculation for the Reflex DC? I might have just missed a blanket statement that specified it, but I am not seeing it.

The last line of...

-All the taboos have a formula, much like a witch's hexes, that determine their DCs. The effect lasts one round, unless the warloghe spends an essence point to extend the duration (at which point creatures within the area receive a new save). At least, that is the text from the last iteration that I have available to me. Things are subject to change after we authors submit it. :)

The party, as predicted, remained peaceful but skeptical with Slaagh and the troglodytes. The barbarian thought the pink slime was delicious, and The party insisted on meeting Kaargh and the southern tribe, too. Surprisingly, there were no hostilities when the party entered the room with the Godbox and lost a few items to the magnetism, though it was readily apparent half the party had shiny greed in their eyes, coveting all the expensive items stuck to the Godbox.

The party descended down to level 5, where Jorqual (Jerk-wad, as the PCs now refer to him), was studying the Spire, as written, and arrogantly told them to leave. The paladin drew his sword, initiative was rolled, and there were 2 rounds of combat.

Jorqual cast Haste and moved into the watery hallway for cover, the eidolon nearly dropped the alchemist (after evading her bomb), and the mephit summoned another mephit, which got off an acid arrow on the paladin. Then the barbarian barreled through (getting enlarged by the wizard) getting knocked with 3 AoOs, and smashed Jorqual with his greataxe. Jorqual, with around 3 HP and adjacent to a raging barbarian tried and failed to cast daze monster defensively in order to retreat the next round safely, and was murdered with an AoO (which banished the eidolon too). Then the paladin charged the mephit and crit'd.

The party, assuming this was a predominantly aquatic dungeon (despite the map being covered except the first room), decided it was a good time to head back to Splinterden, and then to Thornkeep to sell off their goods and divide up their spoils more evenly.

Next week: Shopping, Hastenfar, and likely avoiding being robbed in town (again).

Okay, so the party is holed up in Splinterden with the few stragglers they made allies of.

As such, it's been about a week since they destroyed Gorloth and all the spiders.

The module says Klarkosh renews his hold over Gorloth once per week...

Either Gorloth didn't show up, or Klarkosh came up to find a destroyed minion. Either way, he's not going to be too happy, and will be taking active steps to further impede interlopers.

Logical suggestions?

I've been running the Emerald Spire, and the party just finished Splinterden.

We started with 5 players, and now have 6-7 depending on the week.

I'm going to gloss over a lot of the role-play stuff, and stuff and give some highlights.

The party had zero interest in being based out of Fort Inevitable, and have made Thornkeep their base of operations. Goblin Bazaar shenanigans and connections were made.

End of Chapter 9:
"Special Abilities
A number of classes and creatures gain the use of special abilities, many of which function like spells.
...
Extraordinary Abilities: These abilities cannot be disrupted in combat, as spells can, and they generally do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Effects or areas that negate or disrupt magic have no effect on extraordinary abilities. They are not subject to dispelling, and they function normally in an antimagic field. Indeed, extraordinary abilities do not qualify as magical, though they may break the laws of physics.

Natural Abilities: This category includes abilities a creature has because of its physical nature. Natural abilities are those not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like."

Since you cannot be bothered to read the things I post.

Further, while I did not "recant" my statement, I did amend it with an expansion. Go read further back. You keep ignoring me and fixating on a single sentence I made. I'm done talking with you if you're going to keep nerd raging. I'm having an adamant discussion/argument about rules interpretation, and you're fixating on a single point you cannot let go of, that no longer has the relevance you think it does.

Had I remembered that, I'd have included it early on to nip this nonsense in the bud. d20 is an exception based rules system. There's the exception, spelled out.

I'm not repeating myself a 3rd or 4th time. You're intentionally ignoring what I'm saying, apparently.

The archon's gestalt ability is governed by bing a supernatural ability.

Furthermore, it appears we have both overlooked the very last section of the Magic section on Special Abilities:

Specifically the Extraordinary and Natural Abilities section. that acts as a catch-all for creature abilities that need to reference this chapter. So you can drop your breath weapon hissy fit.

I'd like to know examples of such effects that are not spells, spell-likes, or supernaturals.

For instance, the troglodyte's stench aura (Ex) does not use these rules at all, instead using the rules for measuring distance in the stench description, under Universal Monster Rules.

Are there any (Ex) breath weapons?

It's a boat. It should only be something you can activate on water. It's too inexpensive to be that versatile, in other words. If there's not enough room for it to form (as might be the case if creatures are in the way) it won't activate.

James Jacobs, thank you. I will play all my games in the future with that intent in mind.

I should probably start a new thread about magic items, their auras (and how they are determined), and whether an aura of a magic item somehow makes all of its functions an effect of that school of magic. Especially since that is where the discussion and contention has gone.

Gauss- Again, it's mimicking the function of spells, so it doesn't matter. Magic items that create unique effects that are not spells, spell-like, or supernatural abilities and do not have any rules drawing from a spell's parameter (target, range, effect, whatever), merely have effects that happen based on their descriptions. They don't somehow miraculously become pseudo-spell effects.

That's weird then. For example, the Rod of Splendor makes sense having an aura with 2 schools, since the 2 highest spells are tied for level. The Rod of Lordly Might shouldn't have that many auras.

Holy ignoring what I said, Batman!

You do not need the cone or line templates from the Magic section to create a cone or line. They're just a handy reference to more quickly do what you otherwise would have been able to do by reading the Breath Weapon description in the Bestiary's Universal Monster Rules section.

No inconsistency.

Further, IF a breath weapon must draw from chapter 9 to create a line or cone, it's still mimicking a spell effect (in this case a spell area effect), but not a spell outright. So, if that's what you're hung up on, feel free to expand my previous statement to include that.

Gauss, I've been skimming through the Core Rulebook's Magic Item section, and am not finding any instances of multiple auras, or an aura not matching the highest level prerequisite spell. Are you aware of any in the Core Rulebook? If not, do you think it's possible that in future products this was simply overlooked or ignored?

W. Canepa,

The auras do not always match the spells in the magic item.

Take the Scholar's Ring. The spells used are Comprehend Languages and Legend Lore. Both are divination spells and yet the ring has a Conjuration aura.

This is not necessarily indicative of mistakes on the part of the creators.

Then the very first part of the Magic Items section needs to be errata'd to reflect this. That section says that this cannot be so; it should have a divination aura, as designed.

Again, as written: "When detect magic identifies a magic item's school of magic, this information refers to the school of the spell ... prerequisite given for the item. The description of each item provides its aura strength and the school to which it belongs.

If more than one spell is given as a prerequisite, use the highest-level spell. "

Swan boats are not intended to be things you drop on folks or expand inside of things or otherwise use to do damage. That is reflected in their pricing. Note that an item that specifically DOES allow you to damage folks with its sudden creation, an instant fortress, costs 54,650 or so gp more than the swan boat does.

Of course, feel free to let PCs use swan boats to do damage to targets... but if you don't increase the cost from 450 gp to something a lot more... they suddenly become the most cost-efficent damage-dealing magic item in the game. Which is not what they are supposed to be.

Thank you. Developer feedback on intent will be taken any day of the week.

I still wish that the rules were spelled out more clearly, as intent or not, without you telling me that, there is no formula or mechanic detailing that.

Can the swan boat be activated on land or in air? If so, what happens in either case? Do creatures occupying the spaces the boat would form into prevent the boat from coming into being, or do they get shunted to the side harmlessly, since they cannot be damaged?

W. Canepa, you specifically stated that it applies only to spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that mimic spells.

In effect, you stated that it does not apply to supernatural effects that do not mimic spells. Breath Weapons are one such effect.

The section on Cones and Lines are specifically in the "Spell Areas" section. Breath Weapons are not spells and do not mimic spells.

You are being inconsistent. You are applying a rule that, according to your own statement, does not apply to non-spells and effects that do not replicate spells to a non-spell effect.
But, you refuse to apply a similar rule to magic items.
Do you see the inconsistency?

Under the Universal Monster Rules section, under Breath Weapon, it says:

"Breath Weapon (Su) Some creatures can exhale a cone, line, or cloud of energy or other magical effects. A breath weapon attack usually deals damage and is often based on some type of energy. Breath weapons allow a Reflex save for half damage (DC 10 + 1/2 breathing creature's racial HD + breathing creature's Con modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature's descriptive text). A creature is immune to its own breath weapon unless otherwise noted. Some breath weapons allow a Fortitude save or a Will save instead of a Reflex save. Each breath weapon also includes notes on how often it can be used, even if this number is limited in times per day.

Format: breath weapon (60-ft. cone, 8d6 fire damage, Reflex DC 20 for half, usable every 1d4 rounds); Location: Special Attacks; if the breath is more complicated than damage, it also appears under Special Abilities with its own entry."

So... while you can use the visual templates for lines and cones in the Magic section so you don't have to do the work yourself, it is not necessary. I am not being inconsistent. Anyone can count squares and derive a cone or line based on the breath weapon description. But, making them more uniform would be easier to just look at the Magic section's templates.

Further, MAGIC ITEMS ARE NOT SUPERNATURAL ABILITIES. Look, if we're arguing semantics (which in some cases I am) we need to be on the same page. Your last post in no way dismisses what I'm saying because you thought (but didn't) find some sort of internal inconsistency in my interpretation of the rules.

Actually, I am quite certain that the Ring of Grit Mastery is written incorrectly, as the spells used are a 2nd level abjuration spell (bullet shield) and a 1st level divination spell (anticipate peril).

Ultimate Equipment page 171: Ring of Grit Mastery. Aura: "faint abjuration and evocation"

A magic item can have more than one aura.

Sure, if it's specifically spelled out. I wonder if this was intentional, or like so many other errors in various rulebooks, this was an oversight regarding an (apparently) often-overlooked few sentences at the beginning of the Magic Items section?

W. Canepa,

Ok, then what shape and template does a Dragon's breath weapon take? Breath Weapon's do not mimic a spell. Please cite a rule that is not in the Magic chapter.

Short answer, you cannot cite one because the Magic chapter holds the only example of how Lines and Cones work.

Even though the Devs put the "Spell Areas" in the "Aiming a Spell" section it is still the only rule that covers how a Dragon's Breath weapon shape works.

The same applies for the "School (Subschool)" section.

In any case, you are not willing to listen to anyone so continued debate with you is pointless. The rules are clear here. You cannot create or transport a creature or object unless it is in an open space and on a supported surface.

A dragon's breath weapon is a SUPERNATURAL ABILITY.

Breath weapons are either cones or lines, and since cones and lines are detailed in the Magic chapter, this makes sense. Supernatural ability. Magic. Bam.

The rules are not, at all clear to me.

If the intent is to have the aura of a magic item dictate its function, then it needs to be clear. This also alters how magic items with multiple spells cast as part of the creation process work, as ONLY THE HIGHEST LEVEL SPELL is going to show up via detect magic and dictate the item's aura.

W Canepa wrote:

For example, if a magic item were to summon skeletal warriors into existence just after producing a fiery burst, and an evocation, necromancy, and conjuration spell were all used in the item's creation, the item would only have an aura of the same school as the highest level spell used to create the magic item.

Citation ? I've often encountered items with multiple school auras, often in varying strengths (such as weak illusion and strong conjuration).

LINK

Relevant text: "Magic Items and Detect Magic
When detect magic identifies a magic item's school of magic, this information refers to the school of the spell placed within the potion, scroll, or wand, or the prerequisite given for the item. The description of each item provides its aura strength and the school to which it belongs.

If more than one spell is given as a prerequisite, use the highest-level spell. If no spells are included in the prerequisites, use the following default guidelines."

Emphasis mine, in all three cases.

Magical items reproduce spell effects. The rules for spell effects are listed in the magic section.

Quote:

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. Rule Link

If you can provide an example for when this is not the case, please do so to support your assertion.

"conjuration spell"

Which would also apply to spell-like and supernatural abilities that mimic a conjuration spell.

Magic items that use a conjuration spell in its creation, in my current belief, are not conjuration spells or effects just because they have a conjuration aura.

For example, if a magic item were to summon skeletal warriors into existence just after producing a fiery burst, and an evocation, necromancy, and conjuration spell were all used in the item's creation, the item would only have an aura of the same school as the highest level spell used to create the magic item. Regardless of the effects produced, as magic items are not all based on spells and magic schools.

Is it your position that the rules in CRB Chapter 9 ONLY apply to spells?

To spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that mimic spells, correct.

Again, a magic item's magical aura is only the same as the strongest spell cast during the creation process. Therefore, and magic item producing any effect that has more than one school of magic, by your interpretation, would follow all the rules for a spell (or "effect") of that school, but not for the other schools of magic from the lower-level spells. Is that your position?

And the swan boat feather token is *not* a conjuration spell. It is a magic item that uses a conjuration spell in its creation process (and thus has a conjuration aura).

By your logic, the whip feather token, which has the same spell used in its creation, cannot be activated, as the whip wields itself as a weapon with the dancing property, flitting about. (It also looks like the fan feather token floats and flaps to create wind.)

Other unconventional tactics could include activating an immovable rod inside a creature that swallowed you whole, then cutting your way free, running, and peppering it with ranged attacks from afar since it cannot move more than 5 feet per round now.

Taking medium-sized, 8 gp donkeys into dungeons with you to set off traps, provide cover, eat in a pinch, barter with monsters, take attacks from monsters that would otherwise attack your party, etc.

I get that dropping a boat on someone, or even just crushing them with it, seems outlandish. It is. And it's really neat. Hell, imagine a pirate-themed spellcaster (magus?). He swaggers about, casting spells and swashbuckling, then takes to the skies and plucks a fancy feather from his hat and drops a boat on an enemy vessel before they can board.

Or, using an anchor feather token on a moving ship to instantly halt it, likely causing damage to the ship from the sudden loss of momentum.

Options.

Claxon: My idea of fun is strategically planning and acting, and avoiding death for my character or my party. If I have an item intended for one thing, but can be used as another in a pinch (and a single-use item, too, it's not like this can be done all day long), then it's not a "win button." The game rewards system mastery and clever optimization. As does the real world. As such, if I'm playing a a character in a fantasy world with a personality inclined toward exploiting situations to his favor, I'm going to do just that. I do not at all see this as cheating. And, if you or any GM has a plausible in-game reason for NPCs to mimic the same tactic in combat, then more power to you. That's the nature of innovation. The better options and choices get repeatedly chosen and used, and the suboptimal ones eventually fall by the wayside.

EvilMinion: I agree that the aura is relevant for identifying the object. And only for that. As it is based off of the highest spell level used in the creation process. If an item were to have, say, a conjuration (creation) spell, a necromancy spell, and an evocation spell all cast as part of the creation process, and the necromancy spell were the highest level spell, the item does not somehow magically become a necromancy effect/spell. The aura is used to identify, not to govern. That is my belief based on the rules.

Claxon: Assuming it is brought into being on water, it clearly displaces the water, and thus was brought into existence in empty space.

If the boat is brought into existence on land, the same holds, but less displacement due to the ground being a solid.

Also, if I or an NPC decided to use an item unconventionally, and it was successful, I'd expect the tactic to be repeated and eventually become common practice in a game world. Successful tricks and gimmicks are successful. Just because it ruffles a few peoples' feathers in regard to their perceived Right Way of Creating Verisimilitude and Logic in a World with Dragons and Wizards, doesn't mean it isn't a valid tactic. It's innovation.

Gauss: The swan boat feather token does not create a spell effect. If it did, it would function as a spell. The swan boat feather token simply brings a giant boat into existence for 24 hours.

Again, even if the swan boat is limited by the conjuration school's limits, it can still be activated on land (arguably even precariously balanced on a ledge or steep slope, so that gravity will take effect after it is summoned onto a surface that did in fact support it for a moment). If it is activated on land with creatures present (those squishy bodies, like mud or water, are capable of supporting the created boat...), it should follow that those creatures take damage (likely Reflex for half). With an object that size, it would make sense that it be somewhere between 10d6 and 20d6. Thoughts?

Neither is a boulder dropped off a ledge. Or an improvised weapon. Or a cow loaded into a catapult. But they're all going to kill or maim somebody.

The aura of the magic item determines what magic was used to create it. It doesn't dictate that the magic item is a spell of of that school.

The first bit in the Magic Items section of the rules state,

"When detect magic identifies a magic item's school of magic, this information refers to the school of the spell placed within the potion, scroll, or wand, or the prerequisite given for the item. The description of each item provides its aura strength and the school to which it belongs.

If more than one spell is given as a prerequisite, use the highest-level spell. If no spells are included in the prerequisites, use the following default guidelines."

EvilMinion, the text of the item says "A token that forms a swan-like boat capable of moving on water at a speed of 60 feet. It can carry eight horses and gear, 32 Medium characters, or any equivalent combination. The boat lasts for 1 day."

Forms, not summons.

If you are arguing from the stance that the spell major creation is used in the item's creation, and that spell is a conjuration spell, then I can at least follow your reasoning. Note, though, that major creation is a conjuration (creation) spell, not a conjuration (summoning) spell. Also, the spell only creates 1 cubic foot per caster level, and the duration is much less than the swan boat, and the casting time is much longer. Ergo, the magic item does inot act like the spell used to create it.

Under the conjuration school section, it says, "A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."

Okay, this applies to spells. Agreed. I do not agree that it applies to magic items, though.

Further, if this is the case, summoning a ship onto land where enemies are present should still damage them for massive crushing damage, and would still create a ship that persists for 24 hours, yes?

I can agree on the using it inside a stomach not working. Makes sense. I just like being unconventional.

As for the activation, a standard action activation at the beginning of your turn, while a couple hundred feet above a horde of enemies would still produce a falling swan boat before your turn ends, correct?