Theinexplicablefuzz's page

I like the idea of the wrist sheaths. I would only need quickdraw if i wanted to make a full attacks by throwing daggers.

How would "Death from Above" work with the scout archetype?

how about a net or tanglefoot bags?

Starknives qualify as knives for knifemaster, and have a 20ft range increment.

I don't think that knife master rogues automatically gain any additional proficiencies, which means that unless you take martial weapon proficiency or a level of a martial class, i'd be stuck with daggers.

the charging hurler idea is a good one though.

Theinexplicablefuzz wrote:

Eidolons built for attacks are more like rogues than fighters/rangers. they can't wear armor at all, and they get ~3/4th BAB.

...

I don't think you ever built an eidolon out if you think eidolons are like rogues.

If they do half their current damage and have -10 to their AC, than they will be like rogues in combat.

An eidolon can easily match AC with any of the full plate wearers carrying a shield. Yes if they rely on iteratives their damage would suck, but they use natural weapons, which means they use full bab for all their attacks.

That may have been slightly overstated. A well built rogue will come pretty close to the same AC, especially once magic items are taken into consideration, but what I should have said is that as you level, the relative power of the eidolon becomes less.

Also keep in mind that there is a glowing rune on your head that marks you as the one controlling the eidolon. If you are knocked unconscious, then *poof*, your eidolon is gone.

Having said that, playing a summoner is almost like playing two characters.

So, I posted on this a bit ago, but wasn't very clear as to what I was looking for. Below, I have a build for a knife master/scout.

How does this look? Is there anything that I may have overlooked? Maybe someone knows a way I can optimize.

Thank you all for your input, keep it coming please! More input is always better!

@HaraldKlak Thank you for your clarification, I was getting tripped up on if you could take multiple primary attacks per round or only one primary and multiple secondaries but I believe you have solved this issue.

@Theinexplicablefuzz I haven't actually looked into master summoner that much, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

@Elamdri I like!

I have been agonizing over the choice of base form as well. Is there any one that outshines the others? My Eidolon is set up as a pouncer right now but we can make any changes before we hit level 2. Also, is it worth a trait to get a wand at first level? I was thinking Lesser Eidolon Rejuvenation.

I think that build is up to how you want to play your eidolon. it's important to note that for a Mater summoner you will likely want to invest your EP in non-combat abilities like "Mount", or "Skilled" because when combat comes, it will likely sit in your pocket while you summon a horde of celestial dogs.

If you go standard summoner, your eidolon base form should depend on how you want it to fight. Pouncers can be built to gain lots of attacks, and can be mounts. bipeds gain more reach, good will saves, and higher starting strength. Eidolons built for attacks are more like rogues than fighters/rangers. they can't wear armor at all, and they get ~3/4th BAB.

Small size isn't bad for a summoner. Bonus to AC is good, and if you use your eidolon as a mount, you don't need to make it large first. Gnomes can make great summoners.

I still strongly suggest Master Summoner. Your eidolon can be death-on-wings, but still won't give you the versatility of casting summon monster spells.

Make a Master Summoner.
Being able to throw out an army of critters will make your GM work for his PK. You still get the eidolon, though it will be weaker, and more often than not you will be dismissing it in combat so you can field more summons. An added advantage is that Master Summoners get augment summoning as a bonus feat without needing to mee the prerequisite. If your party doesn't have a scout, the eidolon can fill this role well (link ability means ~instant communication, and darkvision is extra useful here).
look into the "aid another" action, and familiarize yourself with the "summon monster" charts and the abilities (and languages) of each. Also, be clear on the alignment templates (axiomatic, entropic, fiendish, resolute).
Focus on keeping out of combat. Don't neglect AC or HP, and if needed, summon monsters to act as meat shields and use aid another to boost your AC

So I was helping a friend (first time player) put together a rogue, and I had so much fun I wanted to make my own. We eventually decided that what he really wanted to play was probably an alchemist, and while I'm already playing an inquisitor my character will likely die soon. I'll Explain Below. First a little info on the campaign:

Story>rules
magic=very low
PC are human only
characters have 24d6 to divide among stats, and what you roll you keep.
we aren't using traits

The character is an update from one I made for 3.5. I made it before I saw V for vendetta, but that's more or less the concept I'm going for. Theme is painful SA with daggers. after level 4 use the charge action to guarantee SA when closing. Death from above gives +5 to charging from higher ground and offensive defense boosts my AC, so jump with acrobatics during your charge. Eventually get a ring of jumping (or wand of jump) to boost jump checks (and then figure out how to fly). Hidden weapons and knife master will ensure that you always have a trick up your sleeve, and underhanded will make those tricks hit hard, especially after lvl7.

Is there anything that I may have overlooked? Maybe someone knows a way I can optimize.

edit: moved rogue to a spoiler to reduce the "wall of text" effect

Theinexplicablefuzz wrote:

for a switch hitter, quick draw only becomes useful after level 6, and for nearly every other build that doesn't revolve around a switch hitter or weapon thrower concept, quickdraw is a less than optimal choice

Yeah, it's useless, until you need to retrieve an item, open a door, or do any sort of move actiony goodness. Even if it is useless at level 1, is that a big deal? So are lots of other feats.

Well said

hustonj wrote:

So, what kind of action is an AoO.

James Jacobs (Creative Director) wrote:

Masika wrote:

Is an AoO an action? I believe no.

It's an action. It's not a free or a standard or a full-round or an immediate or a swift action, but it IS still an action. Since it's something you're doing.

This was in reference to a dazed creature being able to take no actions, thus not threatening and thus being unable to make an AoO.

Nice lookup!

here is how the Switch Hitter works.

Enemies are 100 ft away (or more). You are shooting your bow.
Enemies double move to be 40 ft out.
Keep shooting arrows into enemy with full attack. Drop your bow, draw your 2H weapon, and 5 ft. step up to put you close to the enemy than your casters.

Without Quickdraw you have to rely on drawing while moving and sometimes you need to take that 5 ft step and change weapons. The point is to put as many arrows into the enemy while they get to you. Having Quick Draw allows you to full attack that last round while they close in and then have a melee weapon out to attract AoOs the next movement they make, or to at least be prepared for melee next round and not have to rely on movement to draw.

you wouldn't need quick draw to switch to melee until level 6 because you only get 1 attack with your melee weapon. enemies close, you drop your weapon (free action), draw your sword (move action), attack (standard action)

it does give you an extra attack with your bow in the first round, but otherwise, until you get to level 6 and take manyshot, you're only gaining one extra attack at 1d8 (+0 because you probably don't have mighty yet)

for a switch hitter, quick draw only becomes useful after level 6, and for nearly every other build that doesn't revolve around a switch hitter or weapon thrower concept, quickdraw is a less than optimal choice

Edit: that attack would probably be at 1d8+2 or 1d6+4 (lvl4) because of deadly aim. that does make quickdraw much more valuable. an extra attack at the beginning of every combat. good for switch hitter. still subpar for almost everyone else (non-archery)

Quick Draw is for switch hitters mostly and those that commonly encounter mixed DR enemies such as Skeletons and Zombies in a single encounter. You can hack it up with a Slashing weapon against zombies and Quick Draw your Bludgeoning weapon after dropping/passing off/sheathing the slashing weapon.

Note: this could be over 2 rounds.

I'm currently playing a switch hitter and I can't seem to think of a reason to take "Quickdraw". I think that the feat could be spent better on something else (like "Vital Stike" for instance).

Sheathing a weapon could lend some utility to "Quickdraw". You could sheath your weapon (move action) instead of dropping it (free action) and then draw another one and attack, however that has a few disadvantages:

1) You can draw a weapon as a free action as part of a move, but would probably be at the mercy of your GM when it comes to sheathing a weapon as part of a move (so that you can draw as a free action using quickdraw).

2) If you're already engaged combat, Sheathing a weapon provokes an attack of opportunity. you're probably just better off dropping it (free action), and drawing another (move action). You won't miss out on an attack until you get your second attack action at level 6 (or 8).

hustonj wrote:

So, what kind of action is an AoO. Is it no action, or an explicit action that you take?

If it is an explicit action that you take, then you comabine one or more free action swith that action.

If it is not an action, then what are you doing dealing damage?

The rules are a nice package that work togehter. People like to make them behave differently than they ar ewritten because it is easier and simpler. That doesn't mean those interpretations are correct!

In order to NOT be able to combine a Free Action with an AoO, you have to be decalring that an AoO is NOT an action at all. How does that fit into the rule sstructue, letting people do as many as 5 or 6 damage dealing attacks in a round that aren't actions?

You say it is not an immediate action. Okay. What kind of action is it? Immediate seemed the best fit. Without a Feat to change the rules you can only do one a round, and you can interrupt other people's actions in order to take this action.

The rules don't specify.

It is not a free action, free actions can only be taken on your turn unless explicitly spelled out, and you can take as many free actions in a turn as you want (subject to GM limitation). You only get one AoO per turn (without overriding feats/abilities).
It is not a swift action, swift actions can only be taken on your turn and you only get one per turn (though it would be easy to read the combat reflexes feat as a special overriding condition there). AoO's do not prevent you from still taking a swift action on your turn though.
It is not an immediate action, immediate actions can be taken on someone else's turn, but you only get one per turn, and doing so consumes your swift action for your upcoming turn, again AoO's do not consume your swift action.
So if an AoO is an action, it is a hybrid form of an immediate and free action - but the rules don't specify. Thus the rules, currently, leave it up to GM interpretation of it being some kind of action or no action at all. For an AoO I...

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that AoO are considerd an "immediate attack action." Unless I'm mistaken, they do use up your immediate action for the turn unless you have combat reflexes or a similar feat, in which case, I would rule that combat reflexes increases the number of immediate actions you can take.

Note: "Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action." (It wasn't clear if you were talking about drawing arrows, or drawing the bow)

Quickdraw is still good for throwing, and for being able to attack in a surprise round if you didn't have your weapon already drawn.

You can also use Two-Weapon Fighting to get multiple attacks before BAB+6, including thrown and splash weapons.

I agree on this point. if you use a lot of thrown weapons like daggers and chakrams, quickdraw has a definite use... after level 6 (or 8 for 3/4ths BAB classes).

It's very popular with the switch-hitter type builds where they use different weapons for different situations. Being able to switch weapons fast can be quite useful.

However, since drawing a weapon is a move action, there's no real advantage for being able to draw faster until you can take advantage of a full attack action.

Barring a disarm manuever or an "Oh, you're really a werewolf?! I need silver!!" moment there's no reason you should need to switch weapons once engaged in melee. How often have you been swinging away with your +2 keen falchion and thought, "Hmm, I think I'm gonna drop my falchion and fight the rest of the combat with my dagger."?

Well off the bat anything with Sneak Attack benefits from it so they can get in an attack in the Surprise round. Rogue's especially use it to Quick Draw a dagger and throw it in the surprise round for sneak attack.

That's a good point. I hadn't thought about suprise rounds. being able to draw and attack while your foes are flat footed is pretty nice, but it really depends on how often you expect to be suprised.

So I've been looking through the forums and guides, and I find a lot of support for taking the quickdraw feat early.

Now it seems to me that the feat provides a very minimal bonus before level 6 (for full BAB classes)and level 8 (for 3/4 BAB classes).

Why is this? let's read the feat

Unless I missed something big, there is no benefit to this feat at all unless you get more than one iterative attack. You can draw a weapon as a move action, and then use your standard action to attack, or draw for free as part of a move, and then attack as a standard action. The only cases in which I could see this being useful before level 6 (or 8)is if a 3/4 class were able to take it at level 1 (which they can't. BAB +1 prerequisite) , or an archer with rapid shot wanted to be able to make a full attack in the first round of combat(in which case, the utility and focus of the feat is rather weak IMO).

After level 6 (or 8) this feat gets a lot more use for certain builds. Like to throw weapons? this is the feat for you! Like to fire arrows until your enemy is 5 feet away? Then this is your feat as well! From an optimization standpoint, unless you like to stand still and throw things, the feat would be better spent somewhere else.

Have I missed something? Are there good uses for quickdraw that I have overlooked?

Cass_Ponderovian wrote:

Precise shot is important to overcome cover from allies. You should probably take it somewhere.

A switch hitter does not need precise shot because when he fights with a two handed weapon in melee. The whole Idea is you are a melee combatant who can also fight at range when needed.

That is a good point. i suppose i'll focus less on the archery side of things and more on the melee side any more ideas?

I'm playing a human ranger in my new campaign, and I need some help deciding what order to take my feats in.

Please format according to the list below.
If you recommend a different combat style feat than one listed, please explain.

Feats by level
o Human Bonus:
o Level 1:
o Combat Style 1: Rapid Shot
o Level 3:
o Level 5:
o Combat Style 2: Manyshot
o Level 7:
o Level 9:
o Combat Style 3: Improved Precise Shot
o Level 11:
o Level 13:
o Combat Style 4:
o Level 15:
o Level 17:
o Combat Style 5:
o Level 19:

Thanks in advance!

I'm inclined to agree with Hector

Cleave is probably your best choice for level three. for one feat, you will double your damage output when facing multiple enemies

Deadly Aim is a great choice for level 5. it makes sure that opponents will either close the distance, or eat 3d8+24 damage (with a Mighty Composite longbow (+4), and 18 strength.) this will increase at level 6 if you take manyshot for your second ranger ability.

Boon companion is most useful at level 7 because that's when most pets get their advancement (usually a size increase and major stat boost). without the feat, you have to wait until level 10.

Theinexplicablefuzz wrote:

... and by raw, beast master gets the animal companion ability at level 1 (instead of level 4) so if i take boon companion, i can get a companion at level 1

I think it is debateable whether the beastmaster actually gets it at lvl 1 or at lvl 4. You are correct that the class feature does not specify which level you get it. While that ccould be interpreted as lvl 1, it might also be reasonable to assume that it is meant to be lvl 4, due to the facts that A) it replaced hunters bond, and B) it doesn't have any effect in itself before lvl 4.

For a low level mount (or just backup creature), I would suggest a camel. The spit is a decent-enough debuff, and being a touch attack ensures that it is usable at later levels.

It would seem to me that, while the ability replaces the ranger hunter's bond ability, it is modeled after the Druid animal companion. while i suppose that it is possible that the ability is worded incorrectly, by raw it implies that the ability is as natural as wearing medium armor or counting acrobatics as a class skill.

For a low level mount (or just backup creature), I would suggest a camel. The spit is a decent-enough debuff, and being a touch attack ensures that it is usable at later levels.

do you suggest this as an animal companion, or would it be more worthwhile to simply buy a camel and train it? also, as a beastmaster has access to the full druid list, are there any other options that would be effective for a switchhitter ranger?

So i finally settled on a ranger for my current campaign. It fits in well with the party (healer cleric, stealthy rogue, Talky bard, casty sorc). my DM has mentioned that the campaign will start at level 1. I was thinking of taking the beastmaster archetype and the boon companion feat (at level 1) to start with a horse. level two i would add a raven or other bird to help scout, and then either level the horse companion, or invest in a big cat until i level to the point where i can get a large (ridable) megaloceros, roc, or allosaurus.

the build i had in mind would focus on mounted archery where possible (for full attacks), and if forced to close, switch to a falchion, or scimitar and quickdraw shield. if the first enemy runs or drops, then i switch to chakrams and five foot steps until i pick up my bow or enter another melee.

Any thoughts on how this might work out? is it a waste to invest in beastmaster as a switch hitter? if i can use a roc i could rain arrows all day (provided there's space), the improved empathic link could help me scout with the raven, and by raw, beast master gets the animal companion ability at level 1 (instead of level 4) so if i take boon companion, i can get a companion at level 1

thanks in advance

How well does the Beastmaster archetype go with the Switch hitter Ranger? And what's the best animal companion to go along with that? I'd be looking to get one full level animal companion rather than take multiple ones. Is there another Archetype that would go well with Beastmaster?

I'm interested in hearing about this as well. any thoughts on a switch hitter beastmaster?

If you're going to optimize for social/scouting, I see you sinking a lot of EP into Skilled to get that +8 racial bonus.

that's what i was thinking too.

What kinds of feats would work best for that kind of eidolon?

thanks! i looked everywhere for that.

I'm looking at purchasing a quickdraw shield for my current character, but i'm not sure how the armor check penalty works.

If I have my shield unequipped and on my back, do I still suffer the penalty?

Theinexplicablefuzz wrote:

I'm in the process of building a tinker gnome Master Summoner with a focus on Magic item crafting and the binding of outsiders.

While the Summoner fits the flavour, you'll be lacking a lot of the (potentially) required spells to make items. Might I suggest a Wizard instead, perhaps aiming for the Genie Binder PrC? A Razmiran Sorcerer could work quite nicely too, though that'll limit your roleplaying options.

Quote:

Since the master summoner's eidolon isn't as optimal for combat, i was planning on optimizing it for a social role and dismissing it before combat. Think shriveled old man (MS) and his lovely assistant/shopkeep (eidolon).

Said lovely assistant can still pack a mean punch, especially with the old man around.

I'm not too worried about spell selection. If i don't have the required spell, i can just "fake it" by raising the spellcraft DC by 5, and most of the items that i really want to craft are summon related. I'm not familiar with genie binder or razmiran sorceror, but i'll look into them.

As far as the eidolon, she can still pack a punch, but isn't going to be as strong or as versatile as my summon monster SLA. additionally, i can only have one summon monster spell active while my eidolon is out, so rather than focus the eidolon on combat, i could increase my out of combat utility more efficiently by optimizing it for a social or scouting role.

any thoughts?

I'm in the process of building a tinker gnome Master Summoner with a focus on Magic item crafting and the binding of outsiders. Since the master summoner's eidolon isn't as optimal for combat, i was planning on optimizing it for a social role and dismissing it before combat. Think shriveled old man (MS) and his lovely assistant/shopkeep (eidolon).

Rp wise, i would travel from town to town in a wagon (maybe a +3 armored wagon of bandit slaying) selling my wares to whoever has the coin to pay my exorbitant prices. maybe occasionally getting run out of town for selling a sword of continual flame as a flaming weapon, or casting light on a dagger and saying "orcs must be nearby! Since you may need it soon, I'll sell you this +4 orc bane dagger for 20% of what i usually charge."

any ideas for how to stat my Summoner and eidolon?
any feat or skill suggestions?

Edit: deleted an unfinished thought.

Since the "limbs (legs)" evolution increases speed, ant the synthesist gains access to all of the eidolon's evolutions, wouldnt this mean that a biped synthesist would have 4 legs and a base speed of 40ft, and a quadraped synthesist would have 6 legs and a base speed of 50ft?

Damage Reduction (Su)

An eidolon’s body becomes resistant to harm, granting it damage reduction. Choose one alignment: chaotic, evil, good, or lawful. The eidolon gains DR 5 that can be bypassed by weapons that possess the chosen alignment. The alignment must be opposite to one of the alignments possessed by the eidolon. At 12th level, this protection can be increased to DR 10 by spending 2 additional evolution points. The summoner must be at least 9th level before selecting this evolution. Source: Advanced Player's Guide

An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it

i'm putting together a neutral summoner for an upcoming game, and i was curious how a neutral summoner would use this evolution. since i have no opposed alignments, can i choose any of the above? would my eidolon's DR become untyped(ha!)?

i'm putting together a lvl 5 oracle of lore, and i can't seem to decide on how best to maximize it's crafting capabilities.

so far, what i'm building around is the focused trance ability, which gives +20 on one intelligence based skill. Essentially this would allow me to craft just about any item without having ranks in craft.

the problem i'm running into, is how to optimize feats. i was thinking of multi-classing to wizard to take advantage of the 'arcanamirium crafter' universal specialization, and the arcane builder arcane discovery.

at higher levels i may want to dabble in binding outsiders as well.

any thoughts?