Thalaine's page

Ok so I think it is important to start by taking a step back and asking what is the underlying purpose of this class. For me it feels like Kineticist is the inverse of Magus. Where Magus takes a spellcaster and gives them the single target ability of a martial character, the Kineticist takes the idea that many martial characters never run out resources and applies it to what is essentially spellcasting.

What this means is that ultimately we want a character who can keep doing the same thing over and over again and not run out of resources.

If this is the case then the way the class is currently structured gives the wrong impression. Currently as you read the class the first character defining feature you get is Elemental Blast however I don't think that is where the power of the class should be as then it just becomes another single target martial character.

Suggestion 1) Give the class a base short range AOE with power similar to electric arc including CON to damage.

Suggestion 2) Things that would usually be 2 action spells (like the above) should be 1 action casts for Kineticists as they need to Gather Elements.

Suggestion 3) Reward players for having a elemental gathered when they end their turn. This might be in the form of a reaction, a buff that activates when the end their turn etc. etc.

The combination of these three suggestions means that a Kineticist can do 1.5 times the damage of a caster who only cast cantrips if they go all out and don't have to move (1 turn gather AOE gather then AOE gather AOE). Or alternatively they can AOE once and then spend the 3rd action moving or Elemental Blasting. But either way they have options.

Suggestion 4) Change gathering elements into essentially monk stances. So while you have X element gathered you can make the following strikes. Then gathering an element can provoke but if you do get stuck in melee you can attack without provoking further.

Suggestion 5) Give a small status bonus to these strikes (say half CON round up or just a straight +2 like Thaumaturge gets)

These two mean that you are ok at single target attacks but not great due to not having an 18 stat and only getting a small bonus to damage on essentially 1 handed weapon damage. It also opens up the possibility of gaining different strikes through feats which seems like an elegant way to do it.

Suggestion 6) Just accept that this character casts spells even though they don't have spell slots. Make them trained in Primal spell DC's have their "spells" go up in power based on spell level etc. etc. People are used to this system and it isn't worth the extra work to avoid just using it.

Suggestion 7) I think that the downside of being a Kineticist is that elemental power wants to achieve equilibrium and that once you use an overflow power that affects anything other than yourself or your immediate surroundings it quickly dissipates. So self buffs and aura's last as usual but debuffs and party buffs and the like only last at most to the start of your next turn. This gives a clear separation between what spells can do and what Kineticists can do.

Curious what other people think.

So, for me the big problem with Psychic is that a significant number of the cantrips it gets access to use Spell Attack Rolls. Unfortunately, this is an area where the PF2 rule system has some serious flaws.

Here is the traditional attack progression for most martial classes

Trained -> Expert at 5 -> Master at 13

Here is the Spell attack progression for primary casters

Trained -> Expert at 7 -> Master at 15 -> Legendary at 19

So already we have 4 levels when martial characters are better and 2 where casters are better. However we also have item bonuses.

Martial

Non magic -> +1 at 2 -> +2 at 10 -> +3 at 16

Caster
No bonuses -> Shadow Signet (https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1073) at 10

The ring doesn't work with Amped cantrips (because it is a metamagic free action).

If we ignore the ring then the Martial is ahead by the following

Equal -> +1 at 2 -> +3 at 5 -> +1 at 7 -> +2 at 10 -> +4 at 13 -> +2 at 15 -> +3 at 16 -> +1 at 19

Now these are not completely comparable since cantrips take 2 actions but also do scaling damage etc. etc. But there isn't a good reason in my opinion as to why it should work like this especially since Psychic has a focus on Spell Attack Rolls.

Solutions
* As much as I would like a more unified progression for all classes that seems highly unlike to happen in PF2E.
* You could also make all spell attack rolls target Reflex. We already have abilities that do things like this (Intimidate for example) so it isn't unreasonable. Shadow Signet would even still be useful (changing it to target fort instead).
* Spell attack rolls could do half damage on a miss. This would make it in line with save spells and would balance the less chance of hitting with more reliable damage.
* Create a new item that just gave an item bonus to spell attacks. Don't let it affect spell DC's or damage and put it at the same level as weapon runes (plus remove Shadow Signet).

What are people's thoughts?

From what I can see it is impossible for say a skeleton to get advanced undead benefits. So, despite all skeleton monsters having darkvision you can't have a PC skeleton with darkvision without using a hybrid heritage. Am I missing anything?

What do people think is a reasonable solution? Skeleton seems like a reasonably strong Ancestry (apart from the RP problems in some games) so I am not sure just giving them advanced undead benefits is the answer considering that it takes undead archetypes two generally subpar feats to get that. But equally not letting them get advanced undead benefits seems unreasonable. I was thinking that they get it once they have selected two skeleton ancestry feats is probably reasonable, but I would be interested to hear people's opinion.