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So, my group violently refuse to play healers, which has forced me to look at this playtest in a certain way (i just need a short rest mechanic), but i dont actually hate the resonance idea. having a mechanic to govern item uses/day is pretty neato, but i think just tying it to level is enough.

I know a lot of people dont think cha/int should be dump stats, but lets be real. You cant max every stat, regardless of stat generation method, and most spellcasters can safely dump strength, since it really does not matter much for a spellcaster.
Since heavy armor unlike 5th ed require you to have at least a positive dex (I actually liked this in 4th and 5th ed dnd, cuts down on MAD), martials need all three physical stats, so having a dump stat somewhere in the mental area is pretty much a must, and i'd rather it did not screw me over. I personally dont like to dump either cha or int because i feel it hinders my rp, but it should be okay to dump them. As long as the game has enough strong charisma using classes, someone will want be the party face anyways, and good rp can come even with a low mod.


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So, first let me get this out of the way, i wont be playtesting the system, because reasons. Paizo has produced a lot of products i've liked over the years, starting with 3.5 era dragon, so i do still follow this playtesting project.

The specific problem with the playtest materials will be discussed later (the nature of the classes)

So to to get this out of the way: Very few people like playing healers, at all. Fundamentally it is because it is a reactive playstyle, you blow per day resources, often out of combat (because healing has historically not been effective in combat, or at all, more on that later) meaning you usually have to save resources that could be used having fun at the table, and in the cases healing is effective, it is still reactive and rather boring, unless it comes with interesting rider effects. I played a cleric once when i was new to roleplaying in 3,5, hated every second of it, then we discovered how effective wands were, and i had fun again.

The second issue is the old "sacred cow" in DnD that good healing has to come from a divine source (and druids count as divine). Most of the players in most of the groups I've played with have been atheists, and a lot refuse to play divine characters at all (As a christian myself, you could say their religion forbids it :P). This is not tied to any game mechanics, but it is an issue.

The most fun I, or anyone else in my main group has had with healers was in 4th edition dnd, where healing was effective, tied to surges, and came with interesting riders all used as bonus actions in combat.
We left 4th ed because of the gamist and boring skill system (the playtest is doing this too, please stop), and tracking the amount of rider effects and conditional bonuses got exhausting, but everyone agrees that was the most fun they had as a healer.

Suggestions: either go with the stamina/hp system used in starfinder, and make healing in combat interesting, or tie effective out of combat healing to the medicine skill. In d&d 5e, the most effective healing resource is interestingly enough the bandage feat.

The cleric class in the playtest is really, really good (probably top-tier) but people might not play it, mostly atheists but also people tied to abrahamic religions, because worshipping another god in game is too much for some people as well, it does not matter how good you make a specific class, people might still not want to play it, and it also prohibits class diversity and limits design space for new classes.

I was going to talk about wands of clw and the like as well, and how they are frustrating from a dm perspective, but were absolutely necessary in 3,5 and pathfinder, but that might be another thread.


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Sometimes style matters more than substance. Way back when the original pathfinder (1e) playtest rolled around, the general feeling you got when comparing pf to 3.5 was something like....

Awesome! All classes get these extra bonuses on top of what they had before! We get more feats per level! Favored class actually does something now! Races give more perks!

I got sucked into that playtest, and have been using pf as my dnd-clone of choice for several years now, and i have played a LOT of systems. Over time, since the 3.pf chassis is almost 20 years old now, you notice more and more cracks in the system, and last time i dm:d pathfinder i used something like 8 pages of houserules to make it palatable.

Last year Paizo released starfinder. I found that while not perfect, it showed that the Paizo team had learnt from some of the bigger flaws in the 3.pf engine, so when i heard about the pf2e playtest, i was pretty hyped.

And then we got....this. Even if the system is solid, it is just...boring?
All the perks of leveling up seems to upgrade you sideways or boringways, you get very few flavor or utility packed abilities, and the promised legendary skill feats (something i hoped would make martials catch up to casters) does very little, the backgrounds seem more limiting than fun, and the ancestries seem to just be a mishmash of clutter for your character sheet, rather than meaningful options.

In the end, i will skip this playtest, since my hype is dead. If there are some major revisions coming at a later date, i will look it over again and see if i can get a playtest group rolling, but with the material as it stands, i dont see where it fits in the market.

Combat focused? Dnd 4e
Rules light dnd? Dnd 5e (which also has brand recognition)
Grimdark? Shadows of the demon lord
Old school? DCC

I dont see how pf2e is going to be better than any of these systems, there would have been a place for a higher magic, more gonzo system, especially if martials had been given meaningful high level abilities, which was what i thought you were going for, considering the last few years class additions (kineticist is my favorite class in pf1e, and i love all the caster hybrid classes).


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as title


Just started pathfinder, and i have a question. in 3.5 all characters recieved lower skill ranks for being below intelligence 10. I was wondering whether this still applies in particular to animal companions and eidolons, who start with below 10 int, i am not particularly sure that it is so, especially based on the wording, buti'd still like it clarified.