Taudis's page

Do Alter Self and Infuse Self allow for alternate racial traits?

Could you use Alter Self to polymorph into a Half-Orc that has Toothy instead of Orc Ferocity to gain a Bite attack?

Could you use Infuse Self to polymorph into a Tiefling that has Maw or Claw instead of their spell-like ability to gain 2 Claw attacks?

What about using Infuse Self to turn into an Aasimar with the Deathless Spirit racial trait to gain Negative Energy Resistance 5 and a +2 bonus on saving throws against death effects, energy drain, negative energy, and spells or spell-like abilities of the necromancy school?

I can't find anything that specifically disallows this but "not allowed" isn't always the same thing as "allowed" in Pathfinder.

I wrote a guide to fighting with a reach weapon and summoning as an Alchemist:

Preserves and Pointy Sticks

I've always found other guides to be a huge help both as a DM and a player, so I decided to finally contribute to the selection by writing a mini-guide dedicated to my favorite way of playing an Alchemist. Or what I thought was going to be a mini-guide - Pathfinder has so many options that even the shortlist is incredibly long.

I had a lot of fun figuring this out, though, and plan to write another when I figure out what to cover next. I'd appreciate any feedback folks have to offer so that I can make improve this guide and any future guide I write.

I'd also like to thank other guide writers for their hard work (I had no idea just how much work these things were!), specifically those whose guides I referenced in writing my own - so Zenith, N. Jolly, Brewer, and Hubaris.

This is two questions.

First question is if things like the Leanan Sidhe's Cha damage touch attack and the Muse's ranged sound strikes count as natural attacks? I don't think they should count but without something in the statblock listing them as extraordinary or supernatural, my understanding is that they do count as natural attacks. Is there information that contradicts my interpretation? Does this need a FAQ?

Second question isn't specific to Fey Form since other polymorph spells have creatures that bring it up. How do you handle natural attacks that are part of an Ex or Su part of the statblock? The more well known example is the Green Man's vines but now we have the Rusalka's tresses. Polymorph gives you any natural attacks of the base creature, so does it include these natural attacks? I've seen people saying polymorph spells don't grant Ex or Su attacks but the only rules quote I can find of that is from 3.5. Does anyone have a link to that being written out as part of Pathfinder's rules?

FWIW, I'm currently allowing a player in my home game to use the Rusalka's tresses and it doesn't really come across as significantly more powerful than any other ball of natural attacks the Polymorph spells offer. I really like that it gives a reason to pick a form other than the flying form with the most natural attacks (looking at you, Monstrous Gargoyle Physique). I'll probably continue allowing it for this player but I'd love to know if there is an actual ruling here.

I was looking up how the spell Full Pouch works and came across several threads stating that an Alchemist can't use it because it has "Target: Object Touched" and extracts function like spells they duplicate except that they "affect only the drinking alchemist". I checked my APG to see if it had more clarifying text and noticed that a few extracts in the Alchemist's APG formulae list don't have a target of the "drinking alchemist".

Absorbing Touch also has "target: object touched", Arcane Eye creates a sensor, Nightmare and Sending don't really work with "affect only the drinking alchemist" and there are few spells in the vein of Identify or Dragon's Breath - AoEs with the caster as the emanation point rather than the target affected. Outside of the APG, there are a few other examples like Disable Construct (ACG) and Touch of Slime (UM) being offensive touch spells that you definitely don't want to "affect only the drinking alchemist".

My instinct is to say that the line "extracts exactly duplicate the spell on which its formula is based except that the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist" is intended to be read as a limitation on spells like Haste that normally affect more than one target rather than as a limitation on what extracts can affect in general.

So, I'd like to know if I'm wrong on that interpretation and also if Full Pouch works or doesn't work as an extract and I guess if the Alchemist also has a whole bunch of other extracts that might not work?

I'm hoping that some kind folks in the paizo forums can help me clear up how Boro Beads and Preserving Flasks interact with an Admixture Vial created extract. I'm new to the forums, so if I'm posting this in the wrong area please let me know.

Let’s start with what I think is clear:
The way each item is worded, each item creates or functions with an extract. Admixture Vial creates “one usable extract”. Boro Bead recharges “any one extract mixed and then consumed that day”. Preserving Flask causes “an extract” to remain potent until it is consumed or otherwise removed from the flask.

Past that, everything gets a little muddier. Boro Bead and Preserving Flask are each fairly clear on how they work and the fact that they only work on a specific level of extract.

Admixture Vial, however, is somewhat unclear on how it functions and what level of extract it creates. While I am interested in exactly how an Admixture Vial works, I don't want to distract from my main question of how it works in conjunction with Preserving Flasks and Boro Beads. In interest of determining that, I've written out different possibilities for how the Admixture Vial works ad then put forth ideas on how that interpretation in conjunction with the other two items and I'd like input on if my interpretations are correct or incorrect.

Possibility a) Admixture Vial combines two extracts. The new extract is an extract equal to the highest level extract used in the process. I think you put this in a Preserving Flask of the appropriate level, since Preserving Flask just asks that you use an extract.
I don think you can recharge the combined extract OR the individual extracts combined to make the Admixtured extract with a Boro Bead. I don’t think combining counts as having “mixed” that day. My interpretation is that “mixed” broken down in game terms is “having prepared into a slot”. I also think the combined extract is technically a new extract, meaning its components were never “consumed” that day. My interpretation is that "consumed" broken down in game terms is “having imbibed to ‘cast’” and not “used as something resembling a material component for this new extract” even if that new extract that will then be "consumed" with all the effects of the extracts "mixed". You can’t use the Boro Bead’s sister item Pearl of Power to recharge a spell expended for something like Divine Interference - the spell explicitly has to be cast. I believe that similarly if you have not “cast” that specific extract, it does not qualify for Boro Bead recharging.

Possibility b) Admixture Vial combines two extracts. The new extract is an extract with a level to the highest level extract used plus two (intuited from the reference to Combine Extracts in the Admixture vial text). Functionally the same as possibility a), will need a higher level Preserving Flask.

Possibility c) Admixture Vial functions exactly as the Combine Extracts discovery and actually combines formulae rather than the extracts mentioned in its text. This creates a clearly defined level of extract and works with both Boro Beads and Preserving Flask, no question.

Possibility d) Admixture Vial functions similarly to the Combine Extracts discovery but uses extracts in the place of formulae (level 1 extract plus level 1 extract prepares a level 3 extract into a level 3 slot). This works with Preserving Flask due to the clearly defined level. It should work with a Boro Bead for the Admixtured extract, since it has been prepared into a slot but not for the component extracts due to the reasons outlined in possibility a)

Possibility e) Admixture Vial creates an extract that that is considered to simultaneously be each extract level of its component extracts. The Admixtured extract can be used with a Preserving Flask if both extracts are the same level and can’t be used with a Boro Bead for the reasons outlined in possibility a). This seems pretty unlikely but I'm trying to be thorough.

You might have also noticed that each possibility allows Admixtured extracts to work with a Preserving Flask. If you have a good reason why that isn't the case, I really want to read it.

I'd like answers on if the possibilities outlined follow the rules and opinions on which possibility is the most likely to be correct. Or answers on if any of them are definitely incorrect - I tried to cover all the possibilities of how Admixture Vial *could* work but if any of them don't mesh with the rules, less variance on a relatively commonly recommended item's function is good.