Stressed_2.0's page

My DM allowed me to use Ragathiel as my deity, but with the Gnome Hooked Hammer as my weapon which I think is awesome! I’ll be able to cast, make strikes, and trip with my hands full, and I can always drop one hand to use my healing tools.

@Gortle

I brought that idea up to her the other night when we all met up to discuss characters and she’s considering it. She had originally planned on being a Swashbuckler, but decided that the class was a bit complicated for her first in the system. The archetype on a Fighter might be a good compromise for her

Ragathiel is cool too since you can take Bastard sword which allows you to go one or two handed.

That’s a great point too, I didn’t think of that. The freedom to drop a hand to heal, grapple, or trip and not grab again unless I have the room to breathe and the action to spend. It does mean that I don’t get to have reach though, so it just comes down to which I feel will be more valuable. My DM said that we can play around with our builds for the first few sessions while we get used to the system, so that’s a chance to test

You want to be melee.

Are you ok using a reach weapon?

I did make a War Priest of Gorum one time that was fairly fun. I used a greatsword and Cry of Destruction. He took some beatings because he hit real hard with a Greatsword and Emblazon Armaments followed sometimes by Cry of Destruction. One big hit, if it lands, cry of Destruction.

Then pick up spells to boost yourself up like heroism and bless can be nice at low level too. You get true strike and enlarge as a Priest of Gorum. Enlarge can be nice for setting up reach. True Strike can be nice if you pick up Channel Smite. Do really brutal channel smites because you as a cleric of a neutral deity, you can use a feat to use your extra heal slots as Harms or Heals. Start off with heals, then get the feat to also get harms. Then you have positive and negative handled for channel smite.

I can't claim it is an optimized build, but it was sure fun. When the party healer is occasionally laying down huge pain with a greatsword, it can be a blast.

Instead of using a shield, just have the shield cantrip for those times you want to some AC.

Give cry of destruction a read for why it can be real fun with a greatsword. It's the starting focus spell for the Destruction Domain.

Very fair point haha

I had been planning on using a gauntlet just to make sure I have a hand free for Battle Medicine, grapples, and trips. I could see swapping to a reach weapon realistically, but I’d have to be ok with losing an action to regrab my weapon afterwards. I think that would realistically be fine. As for the Shield spell instead of a regular shield, I think that could work too. Losing 1 AC in exchange for the better weapon sounds ok

I was looking at a similar path! Emblazon Armaments eventually going to Elemental Armament, possibly Divine Weapon (tho I think I’m fine dropping that for something like Champion’s Reaction). It sounds like a lot of fun, especially using True Strike and a free action with Divine Weapon. I was thinking of going with Ragathiel for Haste to eventually be able to True Strike -> Strike -> Cry of Destruction.

I had thought of taking Versatile Font and Channel Smite, but I wasn’t sure about spending my healing pool on dealing damage instead of keeping the others alive. Then again, it sounds fun as hell

The Sword and Board fighter would be better off picking up Champion MC. If you all make it to level 10, he can really take advantage of it with Combat Reflexes. He should take a warhammer or a flair while the crit specialization effect is still automatic. He can really control his area with hammer and shield, Champion Paladin MC, AoO, and maybe get knockdown at level 4.

The Fighter is pretty set on RPing a sort of pirate character, so she’s intent on a longsword or bastard sword. I think she might like a Champion dedication down the line and it WOULD be awesome with Combat Reflexes. She was originally going to go with a greatsword and take Knockdown, but decided that she wanted the pirate schtick.

The main reason I’m thinking Warpriest over Cloistered is honestly just to be up in melee with the Fighter and keep her buffed and topped off. You think it’s worth doing that with Divine Weapon and the Armament feats?

Stressed_2.0 wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

I don't think you'll really need healing hands. You look about right for adding some damage while healing.

Awesome! Then would you recommend I keep the Champion Dedication just for the armor and skills?

You have a fighter and swashbuckler in the group? Both melee? Champion dedication isn't a bad pick up for that. You want to not be in AoO range just in case when casting. AoOs can disrupt casting, though they are rarer than PF1.

If you can with a ancestry feat, pick up electric arc. That will be a bread and butter cantrip for those early levels.

It takes an action each round to raise a shield. So you often raise a shield and cast electric arc or another cantrip for damage as a cleric. Or if you go bow, you fire a bow or use a ranged weapon and cast a spell.

I usually build support casters with a reach or ranged weapon, then attack from farther away or go shield and cantrip damage for my offensive routine.

Nah, the party is currently a sword and board Fighter, a Scoundrel Rogue, a Spell Shot Gunslinger (just changed) and me.

Ahhh I totally forgot that AoOs can disrupt! Thanks for the reminder lol as for Electric Arc, my DM has said that I can pick up a Jolt Coil relatively soon in the city we’re going to be starting in, so I’m going to be taking that and attaching it to my gauntlet.

I’m still partially considering a Cloistered Cleric with Champion dedication instead of the Warpriest and using the same attack routine you mentioned, but I’m not entirely sure. I feel like level 1 would be hell without the armor from Warpriest haha

Stressed_2.0 wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

I don't think you'll really need healing hands. You look about right for adding some damage while healing.

Awesome! Then would you recommend I keep the Champion Dedication just for the armor and skills?

Champion gets your Warpriest heavy armor training and the chance for lay on hands a Champion's Reaction, although it would also get you that if you were a cloistered cleric.

Warpriest is fine if Fortitude saves and weapon Strikes are important for your PC. For a longer campaign, cloistered cleric is better.

Oh yeah, I’m definitely aware that Cloistered is miles better as a caster. My thought is mostly that the majority of the divine list is buffs and heals that don’t require saves or attack rolls, so Warpriest can be good still!

I don't think you'll really need healing hands. You look about right for adding some damage while healing.

Awesome! Then would you recommend I keep the Champion Dedication just for the armor and skills?

I think I’ve decided on a Warpriest grabbing Domain Initiate at level 1 and Emblazon Armament at level 2. I’m not entirely sure about the build beyond that, but I have some ideas. The deities in the campaign are largely homebrew, so I’m going to ask if the one I’m leaning toward can have the Gauntlet as their weapon (so I can have a free hand for Grapple, Trip, and Battle Medicine) and the Haste spell on the granted list. I think that sounds really great for an all-rounder and leaves a lot of room for support as well as some decent opportunities for damage.

I’m planning on something like this:

1. Deadly Simplicity, Domain Initiate (Destruction)
2. Champion Dedication
4. Emblazon Armament
6. Divine Weapon
8. Emblazon Energy
10. Replenishment of War
12. Align Armament
14. Extend Armament Alignment

I’m trying to fit Healing Hands in, but it’s a really tight fit. Any suggestions?

Stressed_2.0 wrote:

@Gortle:

That’s where my mind went to immediately as well, yeah. It looks powerful support for the martials, but I feel like it could get kinda boring. Then again, it would probably be better at higher levels once there are more spell slots to throw around

@Deriven Firelion:

Ahhhh that makes a lot of sense when you put it that way! That is a lot of healing, especially at level 1. Would you recommend going along with the conventional recommendation of Cloistered Cleric, or more in line with what Arcady recommended (Warpriest with the Blessed One archetype)?

Given you're a newer group, war priest would be fine. More armor and defense with some combat ability along with the healing.

Once you get a feel for game math and play to higher levels, Cloistered Cleric becomes a better option. But both start with Trained in casting and Cloistered doesn't boost to expert until level 7. By that time you'll have a feel for how things go and can adjust accordingly.

A warpriest focused on buffing and healing keep the group going fine with a fighter and gunslinger.

That makes a lot of sense when you put it that way, yeah. Warpriest really does seem better than Cloistered up until level 7 when you really get down to it.

I think that really does put my choices down to either Warpriest or Champion

@Gortle:

That’s where my mind went to immediately as well, yeah. It looks powerful support for the martials, but I feel like it could get kinda boring. Then again, it would probably be better at higher levels once there are more spell slots to throw around

@Deriven Firelion:

Ahhhh that makes a lot of sense when you put it that way! That is a lot of healing, especially at level 1. Would you recommend going along with the conventional recommendation of Cloistered Cleric, or more in line with what Arcady recommended (Warpriest with the Blessed One archetype)?

@Ched Greyfell

I was looking at Bard, but it seems…frightfully repetitive. Any ways to make it less so?

@Deriven Firelion

That’s kinda what I thought when I looked at it, yeah. The power is evident for sure, but it seems so repetitive and cyclical.

I was thinking of a second Fighter, but I don’t want to step on our Fighter’s toes too much. What do you mean by the 2-action Heal being a mistake or bad round reset?

And as an aside, how much would a party suffer if it didn’t have a caster at all? Having never played PF2 before it’s kinda hard to judge, but stuff like Detect Magic and Read Aura look really important

Stressed_2.0 wrote:

@Arcady:

Huh I might have to look into that…is that a feat, or the Shield Ally? I was definitely looking at the shield ally because the blocking is 100% a great use of reaction if I’m not near an ally to protect.

Yeah shield ally.

On druid. My druid is animal, so I get my tactics with my animal companion at the cost of losing one of my actions to give my wolf 2. The wolf has the hitpoints of a flanker (like a rogue more or less). So I can't tank with it, but with a 40 speed I can run around and help the others set up flanking.

Back to Champion - kopesh for tripping would be very potent. Tripping people makes them easy to hit AND they lose actions standing back up AND they have a penalty to attacking you while prone AND they move slower while prone... so... it's a very powerful move to be good at trips and knockdowns.

The guy who lost his PC last session in our game is coming back with a summoner who's plant eodilon will specialize in tripping. Being knocked prone is what got his character so... it's basically turn-about on tactics,

Ahh yeah, that makes sense. Shield Ally looks phenomenal

Oooh that’s a good strategy, I had been looking at Bear for a companion if I did that but a mobile Wolf does sound really nice to help out with flanks

That’s what I thought, yeah. Using the khopesh to trip sounds like it would be fun to throw into the rotation; move in->trip-> move out could deny up to two actions from an enemy if there’s no one else within their reach

Ahhhh I actually love that he’s taking what killed him as his new main strat! That’s really fitting lol

@Arcady:

Really fair point on the wild shape Druid, it does sorta open other avenues of play up in a sense.

I know that this campaign isn’t going to have a very heavy leaning on undead, but might include quite a bit of demons and devils along with other outsiders.

That point about the Champion is exactly what I mean! They suddenly become absolutely crazy as healers which my DM seems ok with. The focus point change is a weird one because it does change a lot of balance, but it’s undeniably a huge buff to Psychics and Champions which I’m all for!

I hadn’t thought about Assurance on Medicine at all, but it makes sense for sure! I might have to do that as well. I can see the point about Champions being kinda boring because of how reactive they can be which can definitely be a concern. Then again, like you said, being in melee inherently gives more options; I would be using a Khopesh for the option to trip.

Huh I might have to look into that…is that a feat, or the Shield Ally? I was definitely looking at the shield ally because the blocking is 100% a great use of reaction if I’m not near an ally to protect.

After looking over the Bard class, I decided that it’s the best option for the group but the least fun option for me. It would help them a lot, but I’m not gonna stick myself with something that I think is gonna be really constraining. It’s unfortunate that it’s the strongest option, but fun > power for sure!

At this point I’m between a Thaumaturge, a Sun Domain Cloistered Cleric, or a Champion taking Deity’s Domain for Sun Domain. The Champion sounds a lot more powerful since we got the errata that says it grants a focus point, and my DM is using the announced rule revision that anyone can regain more than one focus point using the same refocus activity…meaning I would have around the same number of Lay on Hands available each fight that a Cleric would have Heal spells from Healing Font for the whole day. I think any of the three could be powerful and fun, realistically

@Arcady:

I definitely see where you're coming from as far as the differences and strengths between the three casters go. Definitely agree as far as the perception of the Warpriest. While they have more interesting options in combat than the Cloistered Cleric does early on (no real good damaging Divine cantrips) I would agree with the popular opinion that they're probably too weak compared to the Cloistered due to the need for multiple ability scores (Str, Con, Wis, and Cha vs Cloistered only needing Dex, Wis, and Cha). Hopefully the Revision gives them more than just Master proficiency in their weapon at level 19...
As for the Gunslinger, I definitely want to support him and help him get as many crits as possible. I'm mostly concerned about Bard because of the amount of Charisma users in the party, as well as the repetitive action loop (composition cantrip, rinse, repeat). It seems like most of the interesting actions in PF2 are attributed to the martial classes to the exclusion of the casters.

@The Raven Black:

The same that I said to Arcady applies here; I'm a bit concerned about the repetitive nature of the Bard (and casters in general).

@Sanityfaerie:

I would definitely prefer a martial with some sort of support and healing ability, but I'm open to trying something else if it's going to help everyone have fun! Tryna be a team player :)

I love the design of the Thaumaturge...Esoteric Lore with Diverse Lore is so cool, and the Implements all seem fun. I am a little disenchanted with the Chalice at low levels just because of the low amount of THP and healing it grants, but it does get steadily better which is nice. Regalia and Mirror have to be my favorites by far though! I had been putting together a Mirror Thaumaturge with the Champion archetype when we were originally going to have a Cleric, but he swapped to the Gunslinger which made it a bit harder to justify haha

Sorry I haven’t responded today, I’ve been busy taking care of some things, and actually met with the group! A few people asked if we’re running a premade adventure or homebrew…we are gonna be playing a homebrew campaign, but the DM may or may not pull from published adventures.

The common reply was that the classes the rest of the group chose are all difficult and relatively advanced. The Summoner saw how difficult the class would be to run and swapped to Rogue, the Swashbuckler actually looked at Fighter and decided to swap to that (after seeing some of the math that was thrown around in here!), and the Gunslinger decided that he wanted to stick with it lol

With that new party comp in mind, I’m still undecided but leaning toward either Cleric, Druid, or Bard to add some healing and utility. I’ve heard some really negative things about the Warpriest’s spellcasting ability, but is it really that bad? And do you think Bard, Cleric, or Druid would be a better fit?

First, if you can talk to them, I would advise you try talking the person who thinks Swashbuckler is neat out of choosing that Class, it is extremely RNG dependent and also essentially requires the group to always run near optimum tactical coordination for them to be able to pull off Precise Strikes even once per combat... it is something of an "advanced" Martial Class that, for newbies, is essentially a giant trap unless they're all really on board with tactical coordination to ensure they can shine. I suggest a Fighter, Rogue, or Ranger instead.

As for YOUR Class, I second the suggestion to take Bard. Literally, any time someone asks "What should I play?" and they list what the other players are if they don't already have a Bard then Bard is almost certainly going to be the best choice 99 out of 100 times, it is easy to learn, fun to play, and arguably the best all-around Spellcaster in the system despite it being in the Core Rulebook.

Also, one thing to keep in mind during all this, if you don't have a Divine or Primal Spellcaster, even if you do choose Bard, you'll want to be sure SOMEBODY is well trained in Medicine and maybe even looks into grabbing the Battle Medicine Skill Feat for supplemental in and out of Combat healing, otherwise you may end up feeling a bit harried after two, or even one encounter and feel pressured to rest for the day which is not such a great first impression of things, esp at early levels.

Huh I hadn't heard of it being RNG-heavy, but that makes sense now that I think of it since it's all based on skill checks...that's definitely something to keep in mind

I was kinda thinking that, but I do want to play some sort of martial class with support capabilities if possible. Is there a way to make a decently serviceable melee Bard? Anything I build will likely run with the Battle Medicine feat just because it seems so useful lol

I was considering Cleric, but the spell preparation system kinda messes with my head...needing to prepare each individual spell slot feels like way too much to think of at the beginning of the day!

One dedicated character doing buffing/debuffing is a hard task. Same with healing. It is often better to spread that role around to the entire party. That is where the teamwork and synergy comes into play. Gunslinger could pick up and use Cover Fire or Fake Out for example. And Swashbuckler could use One for All, Antagonize (coupled with the Swashbuckler's high speed), or Guardian's Deflection.

Pretty much every class has something that they can use to support the team.

That's a fair point...I was kinda trying to think how one person would be able to take that role on by themselves lol we're meeting up some time soon to build our characters together and try to work some synergies in, so I'll bring that up for sure!

What would you recommend I look for in a class if the other three stick with Swashbuckler, Summoner, and Gunslinger?

So I'm a long-time player of DnD 5e who started off with Pathfinder 1e, and who is now giving PF2e a shot. My group and I are all newbies to the system, but we love how open-ended it seems as far as character creation is concerned. We're more than a little lost as far as party composition goes.

I've done some research and it seems like party optimization is more important than character optimization, as in it's more important to choose actions and classes that mesh rather than building up numbers like in 5e. That's the point where we seem to be drawing a bit of a blank. Like I said, we come from 5e where being a little selfish with your build and actions is pretty standard, but it seems like that might not be the best way to go in this edition.

My group seems to be pretty interested in running with a Swashbuckler, a Summoner, and a Gunslinger. I think the Summoner might be a little iffy just because of how intricate the class is, but the Gunslinger is 100% set. I was leaning toward Thaumaturge because I love the base class, but I'm not fully invested at this point just yet. I also like the idea of some sort of gish-like class that relies on buffing myself and my allies, but I haven't seen anything like that in this edition.

It seems like having a caster and some method of buffing/debuffing is really important in this game, and we don't have anyone for that role at this point. What do you guys think about that party comp? Is there something I should look into playing that might provide a bit of a buffer/debuffer?