River Shadow-hand's page

Great suggestions! What are some of the best Save or Suck spells or Bad Touch spells that should be taken? I'd like to grab a few for Oracular Spellstrike or just plain shutting someone down at range.

Curious on which ones are worth claiming a spell known slot since I don't want to waste precious spell slots and I'll need to spend some spell slots on the spells you guys suggested earlier.

Blessing of Fervor for one thing - but what sort of oracle are you playing? A battle oracle, a nature oracle summoner, a heavens oracle abusing color spray, a lunar oracle with a lethal pet, or what?

I'm playing a Bad Touch Oracle, with some Battle/Buffing to keep myself out of danger.

Ascetic Oracle w/ Dual-Curse archetype.

Hello all,

I'm not used to playing a Spontaneous caster and I'm a bit used to playing Clerics that have access to all spells known and being able to switch spells in and out daily.

I'm aware that some races FCB allows them to add more spells known but what are some of those really important spells that Oracles should most definitely take?

I completely forgot that Apsu has the domain Travel and one of his favored weapons is bite. Going Crusader Cleric and picking up Heavy Armor Proficiency, I'll have to stick with the Katana but that's probably best since I'd be selling it anyways and having to buy a new weapon. No curse, bite at full BAB, free channels in case someone is dying and bleeding out, and free +10 move speed without having to spend another feat on it like the Oracle.

Oh right, Wolfscarred. Normally extra attacks are great, but a secondary bite if and only if you full attack - and you have to worry that 1/5 castings fail... I wouldn't do it myself. Haunted isn't bad unless you're going to be digging around in a pack during combat; "stored" items shouldn't include things in your belt or your weapon or anything.

I'm thinking that Haunted will cause some issues with my scrolls that I keep stored for dire use. The alternative I was considering besides Wolfscarred would be the Tongues curse (maybe Celestial speech). You think that option would be better than the Wolfscarred curse?

Nodachi is an odd one... it's pretty obvious that whoever wrote that entry had it confused with another weapon (it's also a brace polearm, apparently). While it's a +1 damage upgrade and has the brace property, it does require two hands to use.

What else I like about it is that a Nodachi can either do Piercing or Slashing damage whereas my old Katana was stuck with Slashing only. Hopefully Fate's Favored will make up for the 1 point of BAB lost. I do have to worry about 20% spell failure chance with CLW, Obscuring Mist, Divine Favor, or Orisons (stabilize for example), but it's either take Wolfscarred for the 1d4 bite attack or take the Tongues curse (which could either be a blessing or a curse).

So, after pondering multiple options I've decided to go Metal Oracle to pickup the Martial Weapon and Heavy Armor proficiency revelation and to later pickup a "lesser ring of revelations" for the +10 movespeed revelation to offset the O-yoroi armor I'm wearing.

I'm able to upgrade to a Nodachi since it's classified as a Martial weapon (Why it's not an exotic weapon and Wakazashi and Katana are baffles me...but whatever). Plus I can take the Wolfscarred curse to gain a full BAB 1d4 bite attack (albeit suffering a 20% spell failure chance).

I gain two 1st level spells known. Any ideas on what spells to take? I'm considering Divine Favor since I have Fate's Favored trait (+2atk/+2dmg buff for 1min). If I take that spell then what other 1st level Divine spell would be best?

BadBird wrote:

I'm not sure what 'better' means in this context; will saves are a different issue. You can easily get +2 to all Will saves with Iron Will if you're concerned about it.

If the core concern is that Spring Attack becomes irrelevant once something mean is in your face, and so you want to do what you can to improve your 'stand and fight it out' AC, then heavy armor offers a lot more than medium armor. Note that once you have medium armor heavy armor is one feat away, so multiclassing into something with medium armor doesn't mean you have to stick with medium. Personally I like dipping Barbarian or Bloodrager, because along with +10 movement it offers a potent combat option. You can respond to being 'cornered' - losing your ability to spring because something rushes you - by turning on the Rage, dishing out a +4STR full attack, and then either delivering another raging ki-strike or just vanishing. That's me though... I really like dipping Rage. Must be the northern roots.

Well, you almost had me with Bloodrager but I think I like the Cleric side a little better (I'm normally drawn to the Cleric class). I'm not sure if I really need the Agile Feet ability though. Ninja's Light Steps lets me ignore difficult terrain as a full action double move. Sounds like Light Steps only works on natural difficult terrain also.

Not sure if Blind-Fight or a +2will save vs Mind Effects is typically a stronger option? Also, Mithral Medium Armor would allow me to Tumble with Mobility (+4AC) with +10movespeed or I could go with Heavy Armor for the constant +2AC, but no ability to Tumble. I'm just not sure about either of these. Domain bonus and armor choice both seem good, maybe someone has more experience that can suggest one as generally better than the other? Maybe I just need someone to sway me one way or the other a little. ;)

Any suggestions on which path to take here?

I'm not sure what 'better' means in this context; will saves are a different issue. You can easily get +2 to all Will saves with Iron Will if you're concerned about it.

If the core concern is that Spring Attack becomes irrelevant once something mean is in your face, and so you want to do what you can to improve your 'stand and fight it out' AC, then heavy armor offers a lot more than medium armor. Note that once you have medium armor heavy armor is one feat away, so multiclassing into something with medium armor doesn't mean you have to stick with medium. Personally I like dipping Barbarian or Bloodrager, because along with +10 movement it offers a potent combat option. You can respond to being 'cornered' - losing your ability to spring because something rushes you - by turning on the Rage, dishing out a +4STR full attack, and then either delivering another raging ki-strike or just vanishing. That's me though... I really like dipping Rage. Must be the northern roots.

Well, you almost had me with Bloodrager but I think I like the Cleric side a little better (I'm normally drawn to the Cleric class). I'm not sure if I really need the Agile Feet ability though. Ninja's Light Steps lets me ignore difficult terrain as a full action double move. Sounds like Light Steps only works on natural difficult terrain also.

Not sure if Blind-Fight or a +2will save vs Mind Effects is typically a stronger option? Also, Mithral Medium Armor would allow me to Tumble with Mobility (+4AC) with +10movespeed or I could go with Heavy Armor for the constant +2AC, but no ability to Tumble. I'm just not sure about either of these. Domain bonus and armor choice both seem good, maybe someone has more experience that can suggest one as generally better than the other? Maybe I just need someone to sway me one way or the other a little. ;)

1 level dip of vanilla Cleric with Mithral Medium Armor and domains Travel and Darkness seem decent? Darkness domain would gain me the Blind-Fight feat.

I could take Separatist without any real penalty and take Void for the Guarded Mind ability (+2 saving throw vs Mind Effects.)

Either of these sound better than Heavy Armor Proficiency? At level 7 I'd be at a +7 will save.

I've been thinking about it for a bit and I'm thinking that maybe a 1 level dip in Cleric (Crusader Archetype) to pickup the Heavy Armor Proficiency. Deity would be Ng so I could variant positive channel Secrets and also take the Exploration subdomain (+10 movespeed & 3/day Door Sight, plus Expeditious Retreat is a domain spell so I could buy and use a wand of that at the beginning of each battle. At the cost of my 1st turn that'd give me 60ft movespeed in Heavy Armor for Spring Attacks.

I'm losing 1atk by going Cleric but I'd be using Furious Focus anyways....I also only have 10wis so I guess I could only "cast" orisons unless I bought a +2wis headband (which I'm not thinking is worth it entirely just for a few 1st level spells.)

Going Fighter's Eldritch Guardian I'd have +1atk and a familiar (+2 will save and Emissary's ability, or just standard familiar's Alertness feat.) Cleric gives +2fort and +2will saves, so it's the same bonuses as going Fighter. Thinking the +40mspeed, 5 channels, and 3/day Door Sight to look into rooms before opening them would work out better.

What do you think? I also looked at some Oracle options but didn't see anything that really caught my eye, except for the Battle Oracle which can always roll initiative twice. But that doesn't really "help" me get back to 30mspeed or more, like the Cleric can.

Offensive Defense is very good. I like Hunter's Surprise even if it's only 1/day since it lets you break the rules in such a useful way when you really need it - like when your Invisible Blade power fails you.

The feats you mentioned are all useful, as is Extra Ki. Actually, another that comes to mind is Cornugon Smash - it's a really great automatic debuff that's perfectly themed for a shadow warrior. It's not a difficult intimidate check if you've got the skill and charisma (and your racial bonus), and there's at least one item that helps.

Actually, a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier with a Dead Man's Headband attached worn over a Headband of Charisma +2 would be a pretty great 13,000gp stack of headgear to aim for while taking Cornugon Smash. You'd get +3 to indimidate, +1Ki, 1/day critical hit protection, +1AC and -2 enemy ab from intimidate.

I really like the Jingasa, Dead Man's, and Headband suggestion you mentioned. Also thinking that Cornugon Smash would fit in perfectly. Thanks for your suggestions. :)

Well, going with the 1 level Fighter dip route I'm currently thinking of this.

1) Ninja 1: Bab +0 | RETRAINED: Power Attack (lvl 1), +1hp
2) Ninja 2: Bab +1 | RETRAINED: Ninja Trick: Weapon Training (Weapon Focus: Katana), +1hp
3) Ninja 3: Bab +2 | Dodge (lvl 3), +1hp
4) Ninja 4: Bab +3 | Ninja Trick: Vanishing Trick, +1 Str, +1hp
5) Ninja 5: Bab +3 | Mobility (5), +1/6
6) Ninja 6: Bab +4 | Ninja Trick: Combat Trick Spring Attack, +2/6
7) Fighter (Eldritch Guardian) 1: Bab +5 | Furious Focus (lvl 7), Familiar
8) Ninja 7: Bab +6/+1 | +1 Str, +3/6
9) Ninja 8: Bab +7/+2 | FREE FEAT (lvl 9), Ninja Trick: Offensive Defense, +4/6
10) Ninja 9: Bab +7/+2 | +5/6
11) Ninja 10: Bab +8/+3 | Extra Rogue Talent: Hunter’s Surprise (lvl 11), Ninja Trick: Invisible Blade, +6/6 favored class bonus

Grabbing Offensive Defense as it gives me +4AC vs target of my Sneak Attack for that round, good AC booster I'm thinking.

11th Level picking up Hunter's Surprise, seems that this allows me to add sneak attack to something that is normally immune to sneak attack also except that it's a 1/day ability. Seems good to burst down a Boss or to really dish out extra damage in a tight spot. Maybe not the best pick though? I was going to go for Evasion but it won't work while wearing Heavy Armor.

I have a free feat at 9th level that undecided. Should I pickup Improved Initiative? Toughness? Iron Will? For the 1 level Fighter dip I'm going to take Eldritch Guardian for the familiar. Familiar archetype will be Emissary which should help improve my low Will save. I lose out on the Alertness feat but I'm thinking the tradeoff is worth it?

Anything missing? Am I missing a really useful feat at 9th level? Or a Ninja Trick or Advanced Ninja Trick (or Rogue Talent) that I overlooked? Suggestions?

I must say though, I'm liking the direction that this is taking my character even though it delays Advanced Ninja Tricks by 1 level and voids me being able to use Evasion. Being more tanky will probably keep me up and running a lot longer.

Eldritch Guardian looks like a good option for a 1 level dip. Should I go with a +4 initiative familiar or a +2 will save familiar? Currently my Initiative is +2 and Will Save is +5. Thinking that I want to keep Spring Attack, but I could retrain "Skill Focus: Stealth" and "Ninja Trick Wall Climber" to pickup Weapon Focus: Katana and Shadow Clone.

I like the O-yoroi route with 1 level dip of fighter, it'll delay getting my 2 Advanced Ninja Tricks but should the 1 level dip should help shore of my weaknesses.

What feats should I aim for? Thinking Power Attack is not a good choice since I want my attacks to land and Spring Attack + Ambusher means free Sneak Attack which will boost my AC further with Offensive Defense rogue talent. Can't think of any good feats to pickup except maybe Improved Initiative or Toughness?

Does medium or heavy armor stop you from tumbling or using acrobatics? Assuming either a MW Agile-Breastplate or a Mithral Agile Breastplate is my best option?

If taking a level of Martial what would be my best bet (while picking up Medium & Heavy Armor Training)? Guessing Longstrider could offset my speed penalty of medium or heavy armor but it'd probably be better to have 40ft movement speed?

Isn't there a rule that you can't use tumble in medium or heavy armor? I could go with a +1 or +2 O-yoroi (Mithral would be too expensive though) or maybe a +1 mithral Agile-Breastplate? The -10 movespeed of the O-yoroi is probably killer on my Spring Attack. I should probably pickup a wand of Longstrider though.... Not sure why I haven't already.

I know "Offensive Defense" will boost my AC by +4, at 7th level, every round I get Sneak Attack off. When tumbling Mobility boosts me up an additional +4 and Dodge is giving me +1. I may actually be able to play the "AC Game" and stay ahead of the curve if I upgrade my armor to one of the above.

I'd rather not take a Martial Class level because it slows me down from picking up Evasion and Invisible Blade at 10th level (Getting Evasion via 6 levels of FCB and 10th level unlocks Advanced Rogue Talents for selection). Crane Style is a no go, the Ninja Trick states I can get a style that I qualify for and I don't have Improved Unarmed Strike. It'd be too much of an investment, plus the attack penalty would reduce my chances of landing SA and thus hurt my AC by Offensive Defense not working.

Maybe I should retrain a feat to "Medium Armor Training" and take a Mithral Agile Breastplate? Suggestions?

For survival purposes, picking up Shadow Clone to cast min/level Mirror Image based on your Ninja Level - and Extra Ki to fuel both that and more Vanishing Trick - would go a long way. Technically Mirror Image has no effect while you're invisible, but that just means that it's just waiting there to protect you when you're not.

Quite true, my only problem with that is if I'm relying on both of them then I'm screwed versus anything that has True Seeing or can see through Invisibility & Mirror Image. I could spend more money to increase my AC but I'm not rolling around in Gold and the rest of my gear is lagging behind also.

I think staying ranged would be a better option for survival but I'd have to retrain 2 of my feats (not sure which) and I could pickup Shot on the Run next level maybe. I've died once and dying any more is going to really put this character behind the curve.

Are you turning ninja-invisible at the end of combat rounds to reduce the damage you take, and to give you sneak damage on your next attack?

Yes, but I only have 5 Ki so it's used sparingly to either use Vanishing Trick or to get an additional attack during a full round when I'm flanking.

My stats and feats are:

Str: 17
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

AC: 18, Touch: 13, Flat-footed: 15

Fort: 7
Reflex: 10
Will: 5

Ki Pool: 5

Feats: Skill Focus: Stealth, Ninja Trick: Wall Climber, Dodge, Ninja Trick: Vanishing Trick, Mobility, Combat Trick: Spring Attack.

Items: +1 Katana, +1 Mithral Chain Shirt, +1 Cloak of Resistance, Boots of the Cat, MW Composite Shortbow, MW Silver Katana, MW Cold-iron Katana, CLW Wand, Truestrike Wand.

Skills: 13 acrobatics, 10 bluff, 17 climb (wall climber), 8 diplomacy, 11 disable device, 8 disguise, 6 escape artist, 6 knowledge local, 4 knowledge nobility, 4 linguistics, 9 perception, 4 sense motive, 8 sleight of hand, 14 stealth, 7 swim, 11 use magic device.

If I picked up Hellcat Stealth, using it is a -10 penalty to Stealth so I'd be rolling at a +4 stealth in broad daylight. Not sure that it's that strong at the moment unless I save up for a Ring of Chameleon, unless there's a wand that'd help negate the penalty.

I've dyed once but other than that my gold has went towards the gear I have currently. I played over the weekend and that's why I have some free gold available.

Before, I was planning on picking up the following feats later on.
7) Hellcat Stealth, 8) Rogue Talent: Offensive Defense, 9) Dampen Presence, 10) Advanced Ninja Trick: Invisible Blade, Advanced Ninja Trick: Evasion (via 6 FCB's saved up by 10th), and 11) Extra Advanced Rogue Talent: Opportunist.

River Shadow-hand wrote:

*Bump*

It is frowned upon to bump threads around here, you should wait at least 24 hours.

My apologies, I will wait 24 hours for a response. Thanks.

@Paulicus - I have full ranks in stealth and Skill Focus: Stealth. I could pick up Hellcat Stealth next.

1) Any more thoughts / suggestions?
3) What Gear should I go for? Just upgrade my Composite Shortbow to +2 first? I currently have +1 Katana, +1 Cloak of Resistance, Boots of the Cat, MW Composite Shortbow.
4) Any way to make retraining cost less? I could probably use retraining on 4 skills, Ninja Trick: Wall Climber, Dodge, Mobility, and Combat Trick: Spring Attack.
2) What archery feats should I go for if using a bow and typically shooting once due to Skirmisher?

Hello all,

I have a Half-Orc that's level 6 Ninja / Scout combined archetype in PFS (Yes, this is 100% legal). I'm currently level 6 with base 17 Str and 14 Dex and just picked up Spring Attack. I've been trying to decide where exactly to take this character and most recently I've been thinking that going Archery may be a better choice.

I currently don't have a belt of any kind so I could easily be at 17str and 16dex right now if I decided to get a +2dex belt. Or I could grab a +2 Composite Bow and I believe I'd be looking at +9atk, 1d6+6 dmg and +3d6 sneak attack. Normally sneak attack is not really an option for an archer but once I hit 8th level I get sneak attack on a shot after moving 10ft....so I'm limited TYPICALLY to 1 shot but get SA with it. For moments where I can hit an enemy flat-footed I'm able to get more attacks with SA, all while staying out of melee range. Once I hit level 10 I have improved invisibility via Ninja Trick which would make ranged Full-Attacks quite lethal.

I have enough prestige to retrain 2 feats which would get me PBS and Precise Shot for now, and at level 7 pickup another archery feat.

I'm currently at 49hp and 18AC (yeah, my AC is horrible) with no Evasion and no Uncanny Dodge (gave both up to be Ninja / Scout). I'm finding that being in the frontline is pretty dangerous for me and doubting that Spring Attack is going to be the "Answer" to all my problems.

Ranged Tactics Toolbox has an Assassin's Scope that you can set to do SA from 30-60 range or 60-90 range...or I could save up for Sniper Goggles which would let me get SA from further distances after moving at least 10ft. Taking archery feats would also make Flurry of Stars worth grabbing which I'd easily do 1d2+5 (more if deadly aimed) per shuriken, or more with sneak attack.

So What are your thoughts with this? I've got 12k gold and 12prestige and could easily turn my MW Composite Shortbow into +2 and retrain 2 feats (still giving me some gold left to help cover for getting rezzed if I died). With no Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and horrible AC I'm leaning more towards ranged.