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So our GM is planning on starting us at Level 5, and I'm trying to plan my character but am stuck due to my difficulty understanding the contrast between what a 5th-level party of 4 would have if they'd started at 1st instead of starting at 5th. I understand that Table 10-10 gives lower Gold values than Table 10-8 because the party would have spent gold instead of hoarding it, and that Consumables aren't listed in 10-10 because a lot of the ones in 10-9 would have been used along the way, and if a player wants some Consumables they can simply buy some with the gold listed in the Currency entry for their level, but the difference between Permanent items is quite stark.

For example, for a Level 5 Party of 4, according to Table 10-9 they have these Permanent Items spread through Party:
6th: 2, 5th: 4, 4th: 4, 3rd: 4, 2nd: 4, 1st: 2

Which means they average out to these Permanent Items per Party member:
6th: 0.5, 5th: 1, 4th: 1, 3rd: 1, 2nd: 1, 1st: 0.5

While 10-10 allots these Permanent Items per Party member:
4th: 1, 3rd: 2, 2nd: 1, 1st: 2

Which works out to these Permanent Items spread through Party:
4th: 4, 3rd: 8, 2nd: 4, 1st: 8

With the effect that a 5th-level start nets the party double the 3rd-level items and *quadruple* the 1st-level items, at the loss of all 5th- and 6th-level items. Is this a case of implicit GM interpretation, where the GM should rationalise the values given by Table 10-10 to more closely resemble 10-9's values when it's the whole party starting at a higher level, instead of a new hire? Or did the devs consider starting at a higher level as a party an inherent advantage, necessitating less gear, or something?

Should my character be planned around 10-9's largess, or 10-10's limitations?

Hey, I've been looking at Magical Tattoos, and I've got a few questions about them.

So since Shadow Piercings exist, also act as an extra slot in a location, and have a 1.5x multiplier, rather than a 2x, I'm going to run it past my GM that we houserule in that the tattoos have the same multiplier. Shadow Piercings are from a book from 2014, while Magical Tattoos are from a book from 2011, so I think it's reasonable to say the dev team changed their minds about how to price (slot+1) as opposed to slotless.

But I've been wondering about tattoo's ability to be destroyed. If they're too easy to destroy when you are captured, that's a pain, since you can always raid the armoury for your items back, but once a tattoo is destroyed, it's gone forever. But if they're too hard to destroy, then they're a magical item that virtually can't be taken from you, and that's powerful, probably too powerful for a 1.5x multiplier.

What I was thinking of running past my GM was keep all the current rules, but change it so the acid/fire destruction method doesn't actually destroy the item, so much as semi-permanently suppress it. The scarring from the acid or the fire disrupts the ink that guides the magic, but the magic is still there. I was thinking of suggesting that a Restoration, Greater Restoration, Heal, Regeneration, or similar (not Lesser Restoration) could remove the scar and fix the disruption, and that the tattoo would reappear once the scar was gone?

Alternatively, the scar must be healed, and then the tattoo must be re-inked, for maybe 5% of the cost of the original tattoo, as the magic is still there, it just needs to be guided into the right channels again?

What do you guys think?

So I was looking at all the Item Creation Feats, reading the ones I didn't know, and I was on Craft Shadow Piercing. It's for evil characters, but I noticed something odd in it. It says:

"Since shadow piercings don’t interfere with other magic items in the same slot, but can only have one piercing per slot, the base price is multiplied by 1.5 instead of doubled as if they had no space limitation."

But Magical Tattoos, which also don't interfere with items in the same slot and also limit you to one tattoo per slot, have their prices doubled, as if they were slotless.

Shadow Piercings don't have anything that limits them from doing everything a Wondrous Item - or a Magical Tattoo - can, if I'm not reading this incorrectly, so they have the same capabilities.

The Shadow Piercing rules are from Champions of Corruption, a 2014 book, while the Magical Tattoo rules are from Inner Sea Magic, a 2011 book, so I would assume the rulesmiths have thought more on the value of one extra slot. I looked around, and couldn't find an FAQ or errata on this topic. Is there one, and I'm not finding it? If not, would you apply the standards of the later book, and knock the tattoo costs down to a 1.5 multiplier?

Hi, my group is using the Alternate Crafting Rules from here. And our craftercaster is planning ahead, and looking at Inscribe Magical Tattoo as a feat for later. The Alternate Crafting Rules don't have listed DCs for tattoos, would it be akin to jewelry (DC20), or clocks (DC25)? Higher? Lower? This is assuming it's not just a crudely scrawled child's drawing-equivalent, that it's something that a professional tattoo artist would put out (as shown in the Craft level requirement of 5).

Also, am I to understand that a tattoo can replicate any Wondrous Item effect, as well as making your own? But it's the normal crafting cost, x2 for Slotless? That's going to be EXPENSIVE, and take a LONG time, for even one big item. But assuming we ended up with the time, would you be able to, for instance, inscribe the effect that Juggernaut Pauldrons usually give, on a fighter? Or a Belt of Physical Perfection, or something?

Thanks for the help!

Hi, I was taking a look through a friend's Weapon Master's Handbook, mostly for Feats, and I found myself looking at the creating your own weapon section.

Maybe it's just because it's late here, but I ran across something I want to clarify.

The Improved Damage Quality says:

But I can't find anything that says why exotic one-handed weapons would have max damage one step higher. Earlier, the book states that ALL created weapons start out at 1d3, and all Exotic does is give you an extra DP for creation. I looked for 'Exotic' all through this section, and couldn't find anything that said why the damage ceiling was higher.

Am I missing something painfully obvious, or is there an error? Are all Exotic weapons supposed to start at the 1d4 damage step? No, that wouldn't increase the ceiling. Or Are Exotic Weapons ceilings one higher, or they can take the quality once more than their handedness, and they can take full advantage of the extra time the weapon can take Improved Damage over the Medium-sized limits, in which case can an Exotic Light go to 1d8, and would an Exotic Two-Handed still cap at d12/2d6, as then it would be the only one not using all of its allotment? And what does taking it that fifth time give you, if you're larger than medium? 2d8, which seems to be the next level from the table Tiny and Large Weapon Damage?

Just wondering, seemed weird.

Thanks for sating my curiosity.

I'm a Fighter thinking about magic items, and there's a spell I saw that I'd LOVE on my primary weapon, but that there's no existing enchantment for. Is there any rule of thumb written down for determining whether it will use one of the limited +# enchantment slots, of which you only have 5 if you want your weapon to be +5, or whether it will be one of the ones that only costs money, time, and spell slots?

A LOT of armor enchantments seem to be the latter, but there's not a whole lot of weapon enchantments that are.

If there's no rule of thumb, maybe I can just get an opinion. I'm thinking of Versatile Weapon, to overcome Damage Reduction on enemies. If it was an activateable ability where you could choose any one of the listed types, would it be a +#, or one of the 'free' ones? If it was a +#, how big would the # be? +1, +2, +3? I can't imagine it being any bigger than +3, considering the stuff that's sitting at +4 & 5, but I could MAYBE see it as a +3, although I'd be more prone to calling it a +2 - or even a +1, I just don't want to go up to my DM and be greedy, so that'll depend on what you guys think.

Thanks for the help!

Hi again. So this is still my first character in any D&D-derived system more modern than a heavily customised version of AD&D. It's also my first character that is not at least a secondary caster, or a hacker in that one sci-fi game we played. I'm pretty sure I've picked all the feats I want, I would just like help ordering them, please. I have a tentative build order, but it lease a lot of stuff very late that I'd prefer to have earlier, so any help shuffling stuff around so the more useful stuff goes as early as possible, given prereqs, would be greatly appreciated.

The character is a Dwarven Fighter with stats of:
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 8

the Traits:
Defender of the Society(Combat)
Glory of Old(Regional)

and the alternate Racial Benefits:
Fey Thoughts(Fly, Acrobatics)
Craftsman
Rock Stepper

Tentative Build Order:
Lvl1: Power attack, Combat Reflexes.
Lvl2: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Longaxe)
Lvl3: Steel soul
Lvl4: Barroom Brawler
Lvl5: AWT: Warrior Spirit, Weapon Training: Axes
Lvl6: FAWT: Abundant Tactics
Lvl7: Improved Initiative, Armor Training
Lvl8: FAAT: Armoured Juggernaut
Lvl9: Cunning, AWT: Armed Bravery
Lvl10: Cut From the Air
Lvl11: Additional Traits(Militant Merchant, Eldritch Smith), Armor Training
Lvl12: Furious Focus
Lvl13: Improved Critical, AWT: Weapon Specialist(Axes)
Lvl14: Greater Weapon Focus
Lvl15: Weapon Specialization, Armor Training
Lvl16: Greater Weapon Specialization
Lvl17: Run, AWT: Versatile Training(Axes[Climb, Survival])
Lvl18: Smash From the Air
Lvl19: Sprightly Armor
Lvl20: Secured Armor

The main problem with the build order, as I see it, is leaving so much good stuff 'til after Lv11. I'd really like to pick up stuff like Furious Focus and Improved Critical sooner. His main weapon is a Dwarven Longaxe, but he will be picking up at least one backup axe, which is why Weapon Specialist will be useful - plus, I'm planning on getting my Longaxe enchanted with Transformative Greater to be able to turn it into a Greataxe for close-in work, a Pickaxe if something has S-based DR but no P-based, and a Dwarven Waraxe if I only have one hand free. With Weapon Specialist, all the weapon-specific Feats, like Weapon Specialisation and Greater and Improved Critical, will work on all of those.

Thanks for the help!

So as my other topic attests to, I was thinking of playing a Foehammer. But having thought about it, a normal Fighter works better for me. To that end, I've started a new topic, since the old one has a now-misleading title.

Now I'm looking to make a Cleave-build Fighter, using the Dwarven Cleaving stuff as well as their Hatred tree to let me Cleave better. I'm thinking of using a Double Waraxe for the +1 and double-handing it for extra damage. I would Power Attack with Furious Focus when there was only one enemy, and the rest of the time I would Cleave. We're using Stamina and Combat Tricks, so even if the Mage is not around I can spend a stamina to count as Large.

Dwarven Cleave stuff only works with normal Cleave and Greater Cleave to my understanding, is it worth investing in Cleaving Finish and Improved? When would I start training out of Cleave, as most of the discussion I've seen says?

Possible Stats (20-point buy)
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 14+2 (16)
WIS 12+2 (14)
INT 12
CHA 7-2 (5)

Traits
Defender of the Society(Combat)
Glory of Old(Racial)

First-level Feats
Power Attack
Steel Soul

Equipment (175gc to start)
Fighter's Kit - 9
Chalk = 1
Explorer's Outfit - FREE
Chain Shirt - 100
Dwarven Double Waraxe - 60

With that Charisma, is it worth putting more than one rank in Intimidate, or should I leave it alone?

Later Standard and Combat Feats are the Dwarven Hatred tree, Goblin Cleaver and Orc Hewer, Cunning, Cosmopolitan(Acrobatics, Perception), One Eye Open, maybe Master Craftsman

AWT, AAT, and Item Mastery Feats someone on the old thread had great advice for, which I'll quote here:

Good AAT options are: Armor Specialization (extra AC is great for a melee fighter), Armored Juggernaut (save for adamantine full plate and eventually you'll get to DR11/-), Armored Master (Sprightly Armor Armor Mastery).

Good AWT options are: Armed Bravery (extra insurance against the bane of all fighter types: will saves), Defensive Weapon Training (so you are fighting with a 2 handed hammer? Well you may still want a little shield bonus anyway), Fighter’s Reflexes (not a priority like having good will saves but good reflexes help you against some nasty stuff), Trained Initiative (this, gloves of duelling, Sprightly Armor, Improved initiative and you'll have excellent initiative despite your low dex score), Warrior Spirit (the most powerful AWT option of them all, do not miss out on this, it really is a game changer for the fighter).

Also, to stay relevant in higher level play you will probably need Item Mastery feats: Flight Mastery is a must have, but also keep in mind Vision Mastery for see invisibility, Teleportation Mastery for even more mobility, Resistance Mastery for cheap energy resistance and Ability Mastery for better...

Would investing in the Gauntlet Style Feats that eventually give me a gauntlet that is a shield be worth it? If so, would that stack with Defensive Weapon Training?

Any advice on order of feats, as well as other good feats to take, would be very welcome, as well as anything else I've got here.

Thanks!

Hi, so a friend of mine is starting up a new group, and we're going to be playing Pathfinder. I'd like to make a Dwarven Fighter, and I saw that they have a racial Archetype. This is my first time playing any d20 system more modern than a heavily customised version of AD&D, so I went on d20PFSRD, looked at all those Feats and... I'm lost. Paralysed by choice.

We're starting in two days, and basically all I know is that I want to make a Foehammer - the description looks fun. That means giving up all Armour Training and all Weapon Training past the first, mandatory Hammer one. So no Advanced Armor or Weapon Training, and no Armor or Weapon Mastery Feats for anything except Hammers unless I get Armor or Weapon Focuses.

I obviously want to take advantage of some of the class features I gain by giving those up, instead of just making an inferior generic Fighter, but I'm seeing all this advice saying Bull Rush and Trip are useless. If that's the case, is a Foehammer even worth it? If anyone could give me some help here, I'd really appreciate it.

The only decisions I've made to this point are a tentative stat spread, picking my optional Racial traits, my two normal Traits, and my first-level Feats. But any changes you guys suggest to them to improve will be taken into consideration. I'd /kinda/ like to make an Intimidate monster, but I also want Skill points, so...

Possible Stats (20-point buy)
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 12+2 (14)
WIS 12+2 (14)
INT 12
CHA 9-2 (7)

Racial Trait Options
Fey Thoughts(Perception, ?Fly?) (Not sure about the Fly choice, but there's no point in choosing Acrobatics without Armour Training, is there?)
Relentless

Traits
Defender of the Society(Combat)
Glory of Old(Racial)

First-level Feats
Power Attack
Steel Soul

Equipment (175gc to start)
Fighter's Kit - 9
Chalk = 1
Explorer's Outfit - FREE
Leather Lamellar - 60
Dwarven Longhammer - 70
Spiked Gauntlet - 5
Dwarven Boulder Helmet - 20
10 left

Thanks, any help you guys can give will be appreciated. I'm completely lost at this point.