I have a particular dilemma at my current table, where after weeks of playing with a new group, not a single one is interested in any sort of healing class or set of abilitites, and each spends all of their resources on murder-gear. I don't prefer to strongarm my players, but to accommodate their play style, in this case they like to roll to hit and that's about it. But... they need some sort of in-combat healing, and a couple of them have asked if the Heal Skill can be used to restore HP.
This is what I've come up with:
Triage: Successful use of the Heal skill will restore 1HD (roll) worth of Hit Points to the target being attended and uses up a heal kit. Restore an additional HD worth of Hit Points for every 5 by which you exceed the DC. The DC is (Total lost Hit Points), and is a full-round action.
I have a level 1 character with 1 rank in Knowledge: Nature as a Class skill, and I want to use the Take 10 rule to achieve a result of at least 17, with the purpose of knowing which animals of CR 2 are in a particular region. What are the ways that I can fill that 3 point gap? And how high can we get this check with the various means at level 1?
A couple of ways that I have found are:
1. The Aid Other rule allows a fellow player or an NPC to grant a +2 untyped bonus.
Though these are both common enough options, either might not be available to a particular group, and so more options should lead to a greater likelihood of obtaining that +3 total bonus.
Target or Area one spellcaster, creature, or object
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
You can use dispel magic to end one ongoing spell that has been cast on a creature or object, to temporarily suppress the magical abilities of a magic item, or to counter another spellcaster's spell. A dispelled spell ends as if its duration had expired. Some spells, as detailed in their descriptions, can't be defeated by dispel magic. Dispel magic can dispel (but not counter) spell-like effects just as it does spells. The effect of a spell with an instantaneous duration can't be dispelled, because the magical effect is already over before the dispel magic can take effect.
You choose to use dispel magic in one of two ways: a targeted dispel or a counterspell.
Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make one dispel check (1d20 + your caster level) and compare that to the spell with highest caster level (DC = 11 + the spell's caster level). If successful, that spell ends. If not, compare the same result to the spell with the next highest caster level. Repeat this process until you have dispelled one spell affecting the target, or you have failed to dispel every spell.
For example, a 7th-level caster casts dispel magic, targeting a creature affected by stoneskin (caster level 12th) and fly (caster level 6th). The caster level check results in a 19. This check is not high enough to end the stoneskin (which would have required a 23 or higher), but it is high enough to end the fly (which only required a 17). Had the dispel check resulted in a 23 or higher, the stoneskin would have been dispelled, leaving the fly intact. Had the dispel check been a 16 or less, no spells would have been affected.
You can also use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell affecting the target or one spell affecting an area (such as a wall of fire). You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way. If your caster level check is equal to or higher than the DC of that spell, it ends. No other spells or effects on the target are dispelled if your check is not high enough to end the targeted effect.
If you target an object or creature that is the effect of an ongoing spell (such as a monster summoned by summon monster), you make a dispel check to end the spell that conjured the object or creature.
If the object that you target is a magic item, you make a dispel check against the item's caster level (DC = 11 + the item's caster level). If you succeed, all the item's magical properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds, after which the item recovers its magical properties. A suppressed item becomes nonmagical for the duration of the effect. An interdimensional opening (such as a bag of holding) is temporarily closed. A magic item's physical properties are unchanged: A suppressed magic sword is still a sword (a masterwork sword, in fact). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.
You automatically succeed on your dispel check against any spell that you cast yourself.
Counterspell: When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell targets a spellcaster and is cast as a counterspell. Unlike a true counterspell, however, dispel magic may not work; you must make a dispel check to counter the other spellcaster's spell.
The General Rule for Caster Level is as follows:
PRD wrote:
Caster Level
A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.
You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.
In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).
Other entries state:
APG wrote:
Caster Level: Generally equal to the number of class levels (see below) in a spellcasting class. Some prestige classes add caster levels to an existing class.
APG wrote:
Caster Level: A spell's power often depends on caster level, which is defined as the caster's class level for the purpose of casting a particular spell. The word “level” in the short descriptions that follow always refers to caster level.
Just below is the example given in Dispel Magic.
PRD wrote:
For example, a 7th-level caster casts dispel magic, targeting a creature affected by stoneskin (caster level 12th) and fly (caster level 6th). The caster level check results in a 19. This check is not high enough to end the stoneskin (which would have required a 23 or higher), but it is high enough to end the fly (which only required a 17). Had the dispel check resulted in a 23 or higher, the stoneskin would have been dispelled, leaving the fly intact. Had the dispel check been a 16 or less, no spells would have been affected.
My reading of the example is that it implies that Stoneskin and Fly were either cast from two different sources, or for some reason the same caster chose to lower the CL when he cast Fly. Stoneskin is a 4th or 5th level spell, which means its minimum Caster Level is 7th, but by the example and based on the definition of Caster Level, a 12th level Sorc/Wizard/Druid cast it. Fly is a 3rd level spell, which means that its minimum Caster Level is 5th, by the example it was cast by a 6th level Sorc/Wizard.
Is there such thing as a minimum Caster Level? Can a 10th level Wizard intentionally cast Fireball at CL 1, doing only 1D6 damage, consequently lowering that Fireball's CL to 1st? Would it's counterspell DC via Dispel Magic then be 11 plus 1 = 12?
As for using Dispel Magic to counterspell, by my reading you must Ready an Action to counterspell against a specific target, and once that target begins to cast, you cast Dispel Magic. At this point, you add your Caster Level to a D20 result, and then compare that to 11 plus the Caster Level of the spell being cast. If you meet or beat that result, you've countered it.
School transmutation; Level druid 8, sorcerer/wizard 7
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (lodestone and iron filings)
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area up to one 10-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw none; see text; Spell Resistance no
This spell reverses gravity in an area, causing unattached objects and creatures in the area to fall upward and reach the top of the area in 1 round. If a solid object (such as a ceiling) is encountered in this fall, falling objects and creatures strike it in the same manner as they would during a normal downward fall. If an object or creature reaches the top of the area without striking anything, it remains there, oscillating slightly, until the spell ends. At the end of the spell duration, affected objects and creatures fall downward.
Provided it has something to hold onto, a creature caught in the area can attempt a Reflex save to secure itself when the spell strikes. Creatures who can fly or levitate can keep themselves from falling.
Am I reading this correctly? You have a bunch of shapeable 10' cubes. If I place one cube on top of one creature it will "fall" 10' upwards, and then reach the top of the area [of effect], where it will oscillate. If I stack 2 cubes in a column over the same creature, it "falls" 20'. If I see that the ceiling is 60', I can stack 6 cubes in a column over the same creature, causing it to "fall" 60', and since it connects with a solid surface, it will take 6D6 falling damage.
If said creature then stood up, and walked outside of the 10' cubic area, his gravity would re-reverse, causing him to fall 60' back to the ground. If he reentered the area of effect, he'd "fall" 60' back to the ceiling. Are these the correct physics of this spell?
Title says it all. This thread is for those who like the idea of a Taunt Mechanic. I'd like to compare some rules that I'm tossing around with others, hopefully to improve up on them.
Any Critiques should be in the vein of improving a given idea; please don't post comments that this is a "bad" idea, or that it "ruins" Pathfinder :P This is a homebrew/house rule thread, it will work for the table at which its utilized.
Paulcynic's Beta Taunt Rules wrote:
Intercept: Whenever you gain an Attack of Opportunity against a moving foe, you may choose to Intercept. You engage the target in such a way that it feels unable to move further. The foe must have moved at least one square, and if your Intercept is successful it ends its move action in the square at which you intercepted.
Taunt: As a Standard Action, you may catch the attention of one target within one Move action, or 30', which ever is greater. By engaging this target in such a way that it feels unable to engage anyone else on the battlefield, you make an Intimidate check (DC 10 plus 1/2 Target's Hit Dice plus Sense Motive or Wis mod). If you succeed, the target becomes Fixated on you.
Fixate: Fixate is a Condition. Fixated creatures ignore all but a single target, directing all of its attacks against this target if able; gaining a +2 Circumstance bonus to Attacks against this target, but suffer a -2 AC penalty from other attackers. Fixated creatures will move to within 30' of the taunter, getting into a reasonable striking range. After the first round of being Fixated it may attempt to move out of line of sight, but only if cover or concealment can be found w/in 30'. Fixation is broken, and this condition ends anytime the creature is attacked by, or receives damage from any source, when the target they are fixated on is healed by an ally, or when line of sight is broken.
It allows for a Will save, but it doesn't do anything directly To the target, it instead grants the Bard a bonus to Influence it. Also, it is not actually targeting the creature, it hears the Bard's performance and the Bard then understands it better by its reaction.
Ability Text here:
Quote:
At the Heart of It All (String, Wind)
Your song pierces to the heart of a creature's identity, weakening it against you.
Effect: This haunting melody teases at the veils of understanding and drills into the bedrock of truth. Upon completing this performance, the target attempts a Will save. Failure means you understand the target's primal nature; you gain a +4 bonus on Charisma-based checks to influence the target, and the DCs of your abilities and spells that would influence the creature or its actions (including charm and compulsion effects) increase by +2. These bonuses last for 1 day.
You must have an idea of who the creature is when you begin to play the song, either through researching the creature or by observing it directly from no farther than 100 feet.
The Bard has a Masterpiece called The Quickening Pulse. Masterpieces are Supernatural effects. QP says that it quickens the target's heartbeat to dangerous levels. This suggests that its not possible due to the fact that Incorporeal creatures have no body. I'm pretty sure its not possible based on this, but if there's an argument for it working, that'd be helpful :)
Relevant Text:
Incorporeal (Ex) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source. Although it is not a magical attack, holy water affects incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature (except for channel energy).
The Quickening Pulse (Percussion, Wind)
Effect: You create a musical tempo that first mirrors your enemies' heartbeats, and then quickens them to dangerous levels. When you complete the performance, all enemies within 30 feet who can hear your performance must save or take 1d6 points of damage as their pounding heart causes them to sweat blood. Creatures that are immune to critical hits are unaffected by this ability.
Each round that you continue the performance adds another round to the bleed effect. Abilities that extend the duration of a bardic performance (such as Lingering Performance) affect this masterpiece.
Benefit: Each time you cast a summoning spell that conjures more than one creature, add one to the total number of creatures summoned.
Spell Perfection wrote:
Spell Perfection
You are unequaled at the casting of one particular spell.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 15 ranks, at least three metamagic feats.
Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.
And though currently debated, add in the Abyssal Bloodline power Added Summonings. Turn what would normally be 1 Glabrezu from the 9th level Summon Monster list into 4. Holy Mackerel ;)
A shimmering, blue and gold radiance surrounds you, enhancing arcane spells cast by your allies within its area. Any arcane spell cast by a creature within the area gains a +1 enhancement bonus to the DC of any saving throws against the spell, and can be cast as if one of the following metamagic feats was applied to it (without increasing the spell level or casting time): Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Silent Spell, or Still Spell (you choose the metamagic feat when you cast arcane concordance).
Combined with this from the FAQ:
Quote:
Do you count as your own ally?
You count as your own ally unless otherwise stated or if doing so would make no sense or be impossible. Thus, "your allies" almost always means the same as "you and your allies."
—Sean K Reynolds, 10/12/10
Changes my mind on a lot of abilities, anyone notice any other examples? Please post here for reference if you do :)
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Hey folks, this Masterpiece was dismissed as being a lesser version of Planar Ally, but I've spent some time with it and it seems that its critics are simply assuming such. The following is how I understand this ability based on RAW. There's room for correction and discussion, for sure, but it seems that Legato is extremely powerful given its perfect blend of conditions needed to obtain a magically binding agreement with said Outsider. So if you have some insights, or just feel like hammering out the RAW, please read on :)
Legato Piece on the Infernal Bargain:
Your Ultimate Summons. This Masterpiece allows for the Calling of Outsiders up to 12 HD, which can be one Outsider, or two of the same whose combined HD do not exceed 12. The outsider called need not be one associated with your deity, nor evil, and so your list of options is impressive. And you are able to Call specific individuals, which allows for a huge amount of pre-negotiation and alliances (though the GM may decide that a different individual is called in any given performance). Because these beings are Called, not summoned, they can remain as long as is needed to complete a task. Some negotiation is required, but Legato Piece grants some unique advantages, and the willingness of the summoned creature comes down to an Opposed Charisma check, which you will dominate. And by agreeing to the task, they are magically bound to both complete it, and to abide the terms of the negotiation.
Legato Piece on the Infermal Bargain takes 10 Minutes! That'll never be a practical effect, will it?
Both Planar Ally and Planar Summoning also take 10 minutes. Legato Piece provides the best of both spell-effects, making the bard's version far more powerful than its analogues.
How is it more powerful?
Because this ability mixes the mechanics of Planar Ally and Planar Binding, one need not bind and torture this outsider, nor is one required to pay it, though doing so will grant you a bonus on the opposed Charisma check. As with Planar Ally, you can Call specific individuals each time you perform Legato, which means if you have treated it well in the past, its attitude toward you might become progressively more helpful, and if not, it will be set to Indifferent by the magics of this Masterpiece.
Unlike Planar Ally, payment is not required; instead Legato uses the Planar Binding rules to resolve the negotiation. If payment is offered (as defined in Planar Ally), if the Outsider has a Helpful attitude, and if the task matches the Outsider's racial ethos, then you will receive a bonus from +0 to +6 to your Opposed Charisma check. Your GM may choose to apply a penalty to this check if the opposites are true (though this is purely GM fiat, the rules do not call for negatives), and if this is the case, one should strive to offset such negatives.
Because you are given a full minute to negotiate, using At the Heart of it All takes 30 seconds, and will grant you an Untyped +4 bonus to your Opposed Charisma check, Good Hope will grant you another +2 Moral bonus, and you should also be wearing a Circlet of Persuasion, which grants an additional +3 Competence bonus. Keep in mind that this negotiation is a magical effect, and so it can be nullified via Spell Resistance, but the agreement to serve is magically binding.
To sum it all up: You can call a specific Outsider whose attitude is Indifferent, which can then be improved to Helpful via Diplomacy, who will agree to perform a task that is not Impossible or Obviously Suicidal (such as asking a Glabrezu to become a good aligned creature, or asking a lone Archon to travel to the deepest pits of hell and slay the old gods with a spork). Your GM may set a low bar for these two conditions, and so be prepared to think creatively during the negotiation ;) If you win the Opposed Charisma check, the outsider is magically bound to complete the task, after which it will inform you of completion and immediately return to its native plane.
Why would an Evil Outsider aid you and not betray you?
First and foremost, the outsider is magically bound. Bardic Performances, and thus Masterpies are Supernatural effects. It may also find personal pleasure in the task, it may like the reward, and most importantly because it likes you. Put this ability in the context that a Bard is using it. Bards are supernaturally charming, this is not a roleplaying cop out, it is a fact of this specific ability as written and of the Bard's abilities in general. Think of Tim Curry's portrayal of the Prince of Darkness in the movie Legend, he loved this mortal woman and struggled against his nature to please her. Ultimately his wicked nature won out; but we wont be employing these evil beings for any great length of time, nor all that often.
What sort of Outsiders can I Call, and how should I use them?
Consider these circumstances:
You're facing an enemy that summons, or that employs lots of decently tough cohorts.
Solution: Summon some muscle.
You're facing an enemy that does lots of AoE.
Solution: Summon an outsider which can grant protection against elemental types, and/or one that can heal.
You're facing a powerful spell-caster.
Solution: Summon an outsider who can cast Dispel Magic, or which has Spell Resistance.
Cool, I'm working on a series of guides, and this one is the first to reach a presentable state. Critiques, Contributions, and Corrections are all very welcome.
The GoogleDoc can be found Here. Read the intro to get an idea of what this skill really has to offer :)
Intro:
Quote:
Handle Animal is one of those skills that nobody wants to deal with. The rules seem overly convoluted, muddy, and tedious. This is not a false perception, however the rules do actually make sense, and work, and this is one of the most powerful skills in the game, rivaling many class-abilities. The only thing it requires from you is time and gold. And GM approval ;)
The purpose of this guide is to walk you through the steps of obtaining and training a combat animal through the use of Handle Animal. Combat Animals are different than a Druid’s Animal Companion, having slightly different requirements to obtain, train, keep, and employ.
The Steps needed to obtain and prepare your combat animal are explained below, and summarized here:
1. Rear or Purchase your animal(s)
2. Train your animal(s) for a specific purpose. Most likely they will be customized.
3. Understand the mechanics of Handle Animal when employing your combat animal.
4. Pick, Add to, or Replace your combat animals from the comprehensive list.
5. Keeping and Feeding your animals.
We will need a base line reference character for this guide. Assume any class with a Charisma of 16, Handle Animal as a class skill...
This isn't a world shattering issue of course :P But I was hoping to build a list based on what was in print to make it easier while working through some unclear rules with the Animal Speaker archetype. To understand my conundrum, it stems from this passage:
Animal Friend: An animal speaker selects a particular kind of animal, such as apes, badgers, bears, boars, cats, snakes, and so on. The bard gains a +4 bonus on Handle Animal checks to influence animals of his chosen kind. Animals of this kind have a starting attitude of at least “indifferent” toward the bard and never attack him unless he attacks them first.
I believe this is the only ability in the game which requires one to pick a Kind of animal where that kind is not then explicitly defined within the same ability. See Animal Aspect as an example of clearly defined kinds.
Their examples list both broad applicable groups, but also very specific animals as "Kinds." For Example:
Apes. This includes Chimps and Gorillas, and I believe that they also have stats for Orangs.
Cats. All cats including tiny pet cats, Tigers, Leopards, Panthers, Cheetahs, etc.
Boars. Pigs and Boars.
Bears. Only Bears, though there are other types of Ursine in print.
Badgers. There's really only one type of badger. However 'Badgers' isn't a "kind" if we are using the broad definitions like those used with Cats and Apes. Badgers are Mustilids, which includes Weasles and Ferrets, which have stat blocks as well :P
This is clearly meant to be dealt with by the GM, but I was hoping for a printed list, if any :) Thanks!
Sorcerer: Does a sorcerer with the sage bloodline (page 72) use her Int or Cha to determine uses per day of arcane bolt?
The sage sorcerer uses her Int to determine the number of daily uses of her bloodline powers, including arcane bolt. Therefore, whether arcane bolt lists Int or Cha, the sage sorcerer still uses her Int.
The bloodline power lists Cha because that's the standard terminology for sorcerer bloodlines (because all other sorcerers use Cha), and because there may be a way for a non-sorcerer to gain access to that bloodline power, in which case it should be based on Cha (like other sorcerer bloodline powers) instead of Int.
The bolded part seems to clearly say that non-Sorcers may take features from Sorcerer Archetypes.
Is Eldritch Heritage a strong enough candidate to do exactly that?
Advice seems like its distinct enough, go there to get some feedback on your character's build, or how to GM a specific Module, etc. Yet, that also falls clearly into Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew.
Questions on the Item Creation Rules are clearly Rules Questions, but mine was recently moved to the Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew section, I'm guessing because everyone was offering their house rules as the means to calculate cost. But my very clearly stated question was: Did I Build and Price This Item Correctly by the printed rules? That's a Rules Question, not a House Rules question. :P
The distinctions between these categories is very muddy, and having my thread moved might confuse people into believing that it was deleted (because its not where they expect it to be).
Not sure what I'm achieving here, but perhaps it can be done better or more clearly?
I'm building a 20th level Bard and I'm finding that his WBL is large enough to experiment with some custom magical gear.
I want to optimize his action economy, and so I was thinking of making a Violin of Exquisite Accompaniment (Use Activated). The price should be (3x7x2000) 42,000g, and its activation should be a Free Action because the ability is subsumed in the items use (I use the violin in my Bardic Performance).
This allows me to Spend only 1 round of Bardic Performance for all of my BP specific abilities (that's what the spell does), and so long as I put in the time required to activate it, the violin will then maintain it without my having to spend additional rounds of BP.
I was then thinking, why not also add Virtuoso Performance under the same Use Activated premise, which will allow me to start a second performance for 2 rounds of BP. That should cost me an additional (4x10x2000x0.75) 60,000g.
So now I have these two Free Action, use activated powers on my violin which will basically let me maintain 2 simultaneous performances indefinitely (as in, until I stop maintaining them).
And then I thought, what if I made the Violin bow a Rod of Metamagic Quicken (Normal). It would be appropriately 2', the strings wouldn't be magical, but the rod could be shaped in such a way that I could thread new strings when ever I needed to. And so its just one rod with a specific, but solid shape.
And so now my hands are occupied, one with the Violin, and the other with the Rod (which is the bow required to play the Violin). Now I no longer need to cast Exquisite Accompaniment and Virtuoso Performance, freeing up an s-ton of casting options in the first and second rounds of combat, but I can also quicken my spells as well.
I also contemplated making these properties Continuous, making the Exquisite Accompaniment (3x7x2000x4)168,000g, and Virtuoso Performance (4x10x2000x4x0.75) 240,000g. But honestly 408,000g is nearly half my WBL and if the items activation is a free action anyhow... why bother?
Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong, or how to do this better? :)
Looking over the Songhealer Archetype, I could grant my Bard two potent heal-type spells, Heal and Resurrection, which I could use Shadowbard to complete at no BP nor Material cost to myself. This would increase my utility within the group, and make the Bard the best go-to Resurrector in the game because he can do it for free. Even better, i could produce 3 Heal spells via a Swift Cast Exquisite Accompaniment+Virtuoso Performance+Shadowbard. Not as good as Mass Heal, but not at all bad healing for a 3/4 caster.
Here is the Archetype:
Songhealer (Archetype):
Words can harm, but they also heal. The songhealer brings peace and surcease of pain, calming wild emotions and providing a balm for the wounded body.
Enhance Healing (Su): A number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier, a songhealer can cause any healing effect from a spell completion or spell trigger item to function at a caster level equal to his class level. This ability replaces versatile performance.
Bardic Performance: A songhealer gains the following type of bardic performance.
Healing Performance (Su): A bard of 14th level or higher can use his performance to create an effect equivalent to heal on a living target (or harm on an undead target), using the bard's level as the caster level. Using this ability requires 5 rounds of continuous performance, and the target must be able to see and hear the bard throughout the performance. The healing performance relies on audible and visual components. This ability replaces frightening tune.
Funereal Ballad (Su): A bard of 20th level or higher can use his performance to create an effect equivalent to resurrection on a dead creature, using the bard's level as the caster level. Using this ability requires 20 rounds of continuous performance, and the target must be within 10 feet of the bard for the entire performance. Funereal ballad relies on audible and visual components. This ability replaces deadly performance.
I would be giving up Frightening Tune and Deadly Performance.
Frightening Tune:
Frightening Tune (Sp): A bard of 14th level or higher can use his performance to cause fear in his enemies. To be affected, an enemy must be able to hear the bard perform and be within 30 feet. Each enemy within range receives a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the bard's level + the bard's Cha modifier) to negate the effect. If the save succeeds, the creature is immune to this ability for 24 hours. If the save fails, the target becomes frightened and flees for as long as the target can hear the bard's performance. Frightening tune relies on audible components.
Frightening Tune seems easy to give up, as a great many things will have either immunity to, or huge save bonuses versus Fear.
Deadly Performance though, seems like a really nice ability. By level 20, I can easily get the Save DC up to 30. However about half of the monster types out there are Immune to Mind-affecting:
And Death Ward is a lower-level Cleric, Druid, Paladin spell which grants a +4 v magical Death effects. On top of that, it requires my target to See and Hear me, so a Zone of Silence, or a physical barrier (wall of Ice, Wall of Fire), or just a Darkness or Obscuring Mist would thwart me. It seems too conditional to get within 30', play for a full round (during which I can be interrupted), and hope that my target doesn't move away or kill me outright.
Maybe I've just answered my own question, lul :P? Any thoughts on why I should keep Deadly Performance over some powerful healing utility?
:) I have been posting several rules questions lately as I am working on a "How To" guide, and want that guide to stand the test of time. In order for that guide to be sound, the abilities need to work as I claim they do :P And so here is a question fundamental to all of us:
Do rules (such as Feats) modify an ability or action Exclusive of what any other modifying rules might do to that same ability? Or do they work Synergistically, taking each other into account?
Here are two examples:
On the Matter of Superior Summoning+Added Summonings(From a Previous Thread):
Arguing For Synergistic Modifiers:
Paulcynic wrote:
"When ever you cast a summon spell, that conjures more than one creature, add one to the summons." I see this to mean Ends Up Conjuring more than one creature.
The Logic:
1. I cast a summon spell.
2. Because I am a 15th level Abyssal Sorc, I add one to the number of Demons or Fiendish Template creature's summoned.
3. My summon spell conjures 2 Demons or Fiendish Template creatures.
4. That's more than 1.
5. Superior Summoning adds one more Demon.
While the counter position to this logic is Exclusivity:
Seriphim84 wrote:
I don't think there is any reason to say the feat cares if there is other modifiers. It only look at the spell.
My position would be true if modifying rules took each other into consideration. The counter position would be true if they ignored each other. If my position in this example is true, then it MUST be true in ALL cases.
Please don't take this as pushing the rules in a particular direction. I'm trying to understand something fundamental to the way these game mechanics are meant (by the Devs) to be utilized. By getting this down, almost all of my questions about how the various rules work will be self-explanatory. And if my position is wrong, or if there cannot/is not meant to be a fundamental logic to multiple modifiers, that's ok too. Please share your thoughts, and please definitely show some examples ;)
What's Not Clear: That +1 Body, can I argue as a player that it's a 2nd Greater Elemental? As a GM (avoiding Fiat and relying on the RAW), can I argue that it cannot be another Greater Elemental?
What might be implied: Every 10 minutes a new batch of Elementals arrive. Does each batch gain the +1? So 2D4+1 Large, 1D4+1 Huge, and 1+1 Greater.
Hey folks, I'd really appreciate your input on this :) No opinion or idea is necessarily wrong. This might actually be a bad idea entirely, or there might be a useful nugget that can be developed into something solid.
Premise: There already exists a set of Social Skills which are meant to allow Charismatic characters the means to manipulate the perceptions and feelings of other Characters in the game. So far, we've only ever used them to convince NPCs to act in our favor. But when two players had different opinions on how an event should be handled, and they absolutely couldn't agree, I was both happy that they were emotionally invested in the story and this particular outcome, but also not sure how to resolve it. Both players felt that their character absolutely wouldn't 'do it that way,' but these players also really wanted this particular story arch to come to a very specific end. And so we took a break, went out for pizza and tossed around some means of compromise.
What we came up with: Players make decisions for Characters, these characters exist within the logic of the game, therefor characters are subject to the results of a Social Skill check. Charismatic characters are masters of social manipulation, and so it makes sense that he or she would occasionally use Diplomacy and/or Intimidation to cajole his comrades into agreeance. We see this sort of narrative tension in great story telling all of the time, where intense arguing happens and ultimately one gives into the other. Take the Cyclops v Wolverine dynamic as a clear example :)
The Conflict: The player himself still doesn't want to 'do it that way,' even though his character has been convinced. I want my players to be happy, but as many of us have learned by now, not every "No" is easy to get over.
And so I'm curious, is it better to leave the outcome of this sort of conflict to the cold and hard results of the game mechanics? How easy is it to abuse this sort of thing barring lots and lots of GM Fiat? I mean, if a mechanic demands a GM to constantly egg it, its not much of a mechanic.
The following is more of a mental exercise than an attempt to challenge convention. I appreciate those who feel that this *shouldn't* be allowed, and that is valid considering the T1 status of the Wizard. However, that is not what this thread is about, its about the Rules as Written. All input welcome just the same :)
It is interesting to note that the Bard can cast the Cure X Wounds spells, and is the only Arcane caster who can do so by Spell List (bard 1, cleric 1, druid 1, paladin 1, ranger 2). Although we assume that these spells are Divine, there's nothing that I have found (so far) which says that healing-type spells are Divine-only. The Bard being an Arcane Caster proves that arcane caster's can perform this sort of healing magic.
I know this idea runs against Canon :P but please read the following:
Quote:
Independent Research: A wizard can also research a spell independently, duplicating an existing spell or creating an entirely new one. The cost to research a new spell, and the time required, are left up to GM discretion, but it should probably take at least 1 week and cost at least 1,000 gp per level of the spell to be researched. This should also require a number of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) checks.
I am not suggesting that the Wizard learn this spell off of a scroll as was tackled by this thread.
Which leaves the possibility open to GM tolerance. It seems that Technically speaking, spells are Divine or Arcane solely based on who is casting them. There aren't any spells inherently one or the other. Someone pointed out that a Cleric casting Dispel Magic would make that casting a Divine Spell. While a Wizard doing the same would make it Arcane.
So, is there anything in the rules stopping a Wizard from independently researching Cure X Wounds, or any spell found solely within Divine Caster lists?
Your ability to command fire and bardic music has created a strange blend of both magics.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 5 ranks, ability to cast bard spells, ability to cast an arcane fire spell from some other spellcasting class.
Benefit: When you cast a bard spell that deals damage, you may replace the spell's normal damage with fire damage or split the spell's damage so that half of it is the normal damage type and half is fire damage.
If you cast a summon monster spell as a bard spell, you may choose to give the summoned creature a fiery appearance, which gives it fire resistance 5 and adds +1 fire damage to all of its natural attacks. The creature sheds dim light in a 5-foot radius. This aspect of the feat has no effect if the creature already has the fire subtype.
When you use this feat, the affected spell gains the fire descriptor.
My issue is with the specific Requirement: ability to cast an arcane fire spell from some other spellcasting class
There are a couple of ways to achieve this:
1) Have a spell in your list which is also found on another spell list, such as Pyrotechnics (Bard 2, Sorc/Wiz 2). It is a fire spell (note that the requirements do not specify that the spell must deal fire energy damage, just that it deals with fire), and which is an Arcane spell that is from some other spellcasting class (is also found on their spell list).
2) Shadow Evocation. This allows you to cast a quasi-real, illusory version of a sorcerer or wizard evocation spell of 4th level or lower. Which is the ability to cast an arcane fire spell from some other spellcasting class.
3. Take a level of Wiz/Sorc etc.
I'm curious about consensus on these three possibilities, and I am NOT married to any one of them. This is just for the sake of clarity :)
The other bit about this spell which isn't entirely clear is can the Bard's Animal Speaker archetype benefit from this Feat. For example, the Rat Packs are summoned, do they gain the fire damage. Also, it grants the Bard Summon Nature's Ally I-VI, would those summons gain the benefit as well.
The reason that I am not sure is because the synopsis reads:
"Replace bard spell damage with fire damage, summoned monsters gain fire attacks." Which speaks of the designer's intentions. Did he not think about the Animal Speaker archetype when he submitted this? Would this apply to the summons granted by this archetype as well :)?
This is for a Kingmaker Campaign, no homebrew allowed. Character has Elite Array Stats, and a WBL of 64,000gp. Only official Pathfinder books, errata checked as best I could. This Bard concept took a while to finish, and after auditing it several times, it seems Imba for both regular and arena play.
Character Strengths: Knowledges, Social, BBEG level SoS/D, Battlefield Control, Single and Mass DPR. He's basically good at everything except being a 15th+ level Wizard, or a tank.
Weaknesses: Health and AC are acceptable, but he's not by any stretch invincible. His combat style is your typical caster's: SoS/D the BBEG, DPR fast and hard on the minions, finish off BBEG.
Note: I will include my thought process, as well as try and source how I am applying the rules if it is not obvious (this is where I may have made real mistakes). I have omitted some Class Features, as they are not relevant to the DPR section of this thread.
Main Guy, Spoony's Character Sheet:
STATS:
Elite Array: Str 8, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 15
Stats after Modifications: Str 8, Dex 10, Con 14 (+2Enhancement [Belt of Might Con]), Int 14 (+1 level), Wis 14, Cha 24 (+2 Racial, +1 level, +6 Headband of Alluring Charisma)
HP 82 (7D8 +11Favored +22Constitution)
*AC 19 (+6 Armor, +3 Barkskin)
*Low AC isn't that big of a problem considering that he has 3-4 permanent bodyguards. All of his Saves are high as well, so spells and aoe SoD effects aren't that troublesome.
Fort +8 (+3Class, +2Con, +1Luck [Racial], +2Moral [from Good Hope]), Reflex +10 (+7Class, +1Luck, +2Moral), Will +12 (+7Class, +2Wis, +2Moral)
FEATS and Similar:
Racial Feat (Spell Focus, Conjuration): +1 to Save DCs
Feat (Augment Summoning): +4 Enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution to Summons
Feat (Superior Summons): +1 Critter/summon, if more than 1 can be summoned
Feat (Skill Focus, Knowledge Arcana): +6 Skill bonus
Feat (Eldritch Heritage, Arcane): Gain 1st level Bloodline power
Feat (Improved Familiar): Mephit, Ooze
*Feat (Leadership, 7+2Base-2Familiar+2Armor+1Kind): Cohort 7th
*(Kingmaker Campaign, we have our own Base of Operations by now, GM approved Leadership Score)
BARD Specific Abilities:
Bardic Performance (Move Action): 31/___ Rounds
Masterpiece (1st level spell, Triple Time): +10 Enhancement bonus to Speed, 1 Ally/lvl, Lasts 1 hour. Already factored into Spoony, Anna, Tellah, Rodchester, and the Glabrezu, not applied to Cheetahs or Dire Bats.
Masterpiece (4th level Spell, Legato Piece on the Infernal Bargain): As Planar Ally, with specific
negotiation rules (see book). Begins "Indifferent" toward Spoony. An Opposed Cha check (My D20+*11 vs His D20+5) to determine, pre-combat if he will Assist.
*+11 = +7Charisma, +2Compentence [from Armor], +2Moral [Good Hope, which expires before combat and will be recast]
Bardic Knowledge
*Inspire Courage: All allies w/in 30' gain +3 Moral bonus to save v. Charm/Fear and +3 Competence bonus to Attack and Damage.
*Will be using this with the spell with Virtuoso Performance to reduce BP costs.
Inspire Greatness: One ally within 30' gains 2HD (2D10+Con in health, +2 Attack bonus, and +1 Fort save)
Animal Friend (Vermin, Cats, Primates): +4 Handle Animal, Attitude is at least Indifferent. Can Speak w/these Animals.
*Bardic Performance (Attract Rats): Summon 2D3+1 Rat Swarms w/ Advanced Template, at the cost of 1 BP per round sustained.
*Will be using this with the spell Exquisite Accompaniment to reduce BP costs. Chose this ability because Rat Swarms cause Nausea (May only perform a Move Action for each round Nauseated) to those they damage. Potentially there will be 3 to 7 packs running around harassing my foes.
SPELLS Known:
LEVEL 1 (5+1 Known, Save DC 18)
Summon Nature's Ally I
Charm Person
Saving Finale: Close, Immediate Action, Instantaneous
Hideous Laughter: Close, 1 round/lvl
Expeditious Retreat: Personal, 1 min/lvl
Lock Gaze: Close, 1 round/lvl
LEVEL 2 (5+1 Known, Save DC 19)
Summon Nature's Ally II
Cacophonous Call: Close, 1 round/lvl
Hold Person: Medium, 1 round/lvl
Reckless Infatuation: Close, 1 day/lvl
Ghostbane Dirge: Close, 1 round/lvl
Blindness/Deafness: Medium, Permanent
LEVEL 3 (4+1 Known, Save DC 20)
Summon Nature's Ally III: Casting Time 1 Round
Haste: Close, 1 creature/lvl, 1 round/lvl
Exquisite Accompaniment: Personal, 1 round/lvl
Displacement: Personal, 1 round/lvl
Good Hope: Medium, 1 creature/lvl, 1 min /lvl
LEVEL 4 (2+1 Known, Save DC 21)
Summon Nature's Ally IV
Virtuoso Performance: Personal, 1 round/lvl
Dominate Person: Close, 1 day/lvl
EQUIPMENT
WBL: 64,000g
Headband +6 Cha -36,000g
Chain Shirt +2 Command -24,500g
Belt of Mighty Con +2, -4000g
Remaining GP = 0
*Chain Shirt (Breastplate) of Command +2: This +2 breastplate bestows a commanding aura upon its wearer. The wearer gains a +2 Competence bonus on all Charisma checks, including Charisma-based skill checks. The wearer also gains a +2 Competence bonus to his Leadership score.
*GM approved the armor type switch, however, we aren't familiar with the item creation rules, so this may be against the rules.
Anna's Character Sheet (Cohort, in Wildshape Form):
15-point Spread: Str 16, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 7
Stats After Modifications: Str 24 (+2Racial, +2Enhancement [BoGS], +4Size [Wildshape]), Dex 12 (-2Size [Wildshape]), Con 18 (+1Level, +4Size [Wildshape]), Int 8, Wis 14 (+1Level), Cha 7
HP 66 (7D8 +7Favored +28Con)
AC 22 (5Armor (4Hide, 1Bracers of Armor), 2Shield, +1Dex, -1Size, +1Dodge (from Haste), +3Natural[from Barkskin], +1Deflection [from Ring of Protection])
Fort +12, Reflex +5, Will +9
FEATS and Similar:
Racial Feat (Spell Focus, Conjuration): +1 Spell DC
Feat (Augment Summoning): +4 Strength and Constitution
Feat (Superior Summons): +1 Critter/summon, if > 1 can be.
Feat (Natural Spell): Complete Verbal/Somatic components
DRUID Specific Abilities
Wildshape (As Beastshape II): 2x/day
In Dire Tiger form: Low-light Vision, Scent
Nature Bond (Tellah), Spontaneous Casting, Woodland Stride
Trackless Step, Resist Nature's Lure, Nature Sense
SPELLS Known:
LEVEL 1 (4 Memorized, Save DC 13)
Obscuring Mist
Cure Light Wounds
Faerie Fire x2
LEVEL 2 (4 Memorized, Save DC 14)
Barkskin x4
LEVEL 3 (2 Memorized, Save DC 15)
Greater Magic Fang x2
LEVEL 4 (1 Memorized, Save DC 16)
Summon Nature's Ally IV x1
EQUIPMENT
WBL = 6000g
Ring of Protection +1 -2000g
Belt of Giant's Strength +2 -2000g
Bracers of Armor +1 -2000g
Tellah, Anna's Animal Companion:
Str 22, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10
HP 52 (7D8 +21Con)
AC: 25, Touch: 12, Flat-Footed: 22 (+2 Dex, +1 Dodge, +7 Natural Armor, -1 Size)
Fort 11, Reflex 11, Will 7
OFFENSIVE
Pounce, Grab, Rake (2 Claws 1D6+13 each, Not factored into DPR)
*2 Bite +17 (1D8+13 Grab) 2 Claw +17 (1D8+13 Grab)
*Buffed with Haste, Inspire Courage, Good Hope, Greater Magic Fang
CMB: +12 (+16 Grapple), CMD: 24
FEATS and Similar:
Feat (Armor Proficiency, Light): No Penalty
Feat (Armor Proficiency, Medium): No Penalty
Feat (Eldritch Claws): Natural Attacks as Magic and Silver
Evasion: No damage on Reflex Save
Share Spells: Cast a Personal spell on your Companion
Devotion: +4 Will save vs Enchantments
Low-light Vision, Scent
Intimidate (+8), Perception (+6)
Glabrezu, Called via Legato Piece on the Infernal Bargain:
*Stock Glabrezu, not buffed by my spells.
Glabrezu (Called, Demon); Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Stats: Str 31, Dex 11, Con 31, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 20
Base Atk +12; CMB +24; CMD 34 *SPEED: 50 (+10Enhancement [from Triple Time])
Feats: Power Attack, Vital Strike
Skills: Intimidate +22, Perception +26, Sense Motive +18, Stealth +7, Use Magic Device +17
HP 186/___
AC 28, Touch 8, Flat-footed 28 (+20 natural, –2 size)
Fort +18, Ref +4, Will +11
DR 10/good Immune: Electricity, Poison; Resist acid, cold, fire 10; SR 24
Spell-Like Abilities:
Constant (CL 14): True seeing
At will (CL 14): Chaos Hammer (DC 19), Confusion (DC 19), Dispel Magic, Mirror Image, Reverse Gravity (DC 22), Unholy Blight
1/day (CL 14): Power Word Stun
Rodchester, Ooze Mephit Familiar:
Chosen as a Class Feature as extra protection in case something comes at me in Melee. Has a nasty breath attack, and Spell-like abilities. He will remain adjacent to Spoony, ready to use his Breath Weapon and spell-like abilities. He has a 25% chance of summoning a Stock Ooze mephit, which he will summon if something comes into melee.
Str 13, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 14
Darkvision 60', Fast Healing 2 (In Wet or Muddy terrain)
Speed 30, fly 40 (average), Swim 30
Improved Evasion: Half damage on failed Reflex save.
HP 41 (1/2 Spoony's Health)
AC 25, touch 14, ff 22 (+2 Dex +1 dodge/size +11 natural)
DR 5/magic
Effectively 9HD
Fort 3, Reflex 9, Will 7
3 Claws +17 (1D3+6)
Spell-like Abilities:
1x/day, 25% chance to summon 1 Mephit of same type
1x/hour, Acid Arrow: Range Touch, 2D4 Acid for 4 rounds
1x/day, Stinking Cloud (Fort DC 15, poison): Nauseated while in cloud, and for 1D4+1 rounds after leaving.
Breath Attack (15' Cone, Reflex DC 16): 1D4 Acid and Sickened for 3 Rounds. Save for half Damage and Negate Sickened. Cooldown: 4 Rounds
Summoned Augmented Cheetahs:
Augmented Cheetah
N Medium animal
Stats assume buffed with: Inspire Courage (+3 Attack/Damage), Haste (+1 additional Attack, +1 Attack bonus, +1 Dodge AC and Reflex save), Good Hope (+2 Attack/Damage, +2 Saves, +2 Skill/Stat Checks), and Augment Summons (+4 Strength/Constitution)
Senses: Low-light Vision, Scent; Perception +5
Defense
HP 25 (3d8+12)
AC 16, Touch 15, Flat-footed 11 (+4 Dex, +1 Dodge, +1 natural)
Fort +9, Ref +10, Will +4
Special Abilities
Sprint (Ex) Once per hour, a cheetah can move at 10 times its normal speed (500 feet) when it makes a charge.
Summoned Augmented Dire Bats, only summoned if Enemy is airborne:
Augmented Dire Bats
N Large animal
Stats assume buffed with: Haste (+1 additional Attack, +1 Attack bonus, +1 Dodge AC and Reflex save), Good Hope (+2 Attack/Damage, +2 Saves, +2 Skill/Stat Checks), and Augment Summons (+4 Strength/Constitution)
Senses: Blindsense 40'; Perception +12
Defense
AC 15, touch 12, flat-footed 12 (+2 Dex, +3 natural, –1 size, +1 Dodge)
HP 30 (4d8+12)
Fort +9, Ref +9, Will +5
Offense
Init +2; Speed 20 ft., fly 40 ft. (good)
Melee: 2 Bites +1 (1d8+9)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Statistics
Str 21, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6
Base Atk +3; CMB +9; CMD 21
Feats Alertness, Stealthy
Skills Fly +9, Perception +12, Stealth +4; Racial Modifiers +4 Perception when using Blindsense
Things that need to go Each Round:
1. Spoony
2. Rodchester
3. Anna
4. Tellah
5. Glabrezu
6. Rat Swarms
7. Cheetahs or Bats
DPR of Each Critter versus AC 26:
1. Spoony - None (Or all since his minions are his damage mechanic)
2. Rodchester - 15.2 DPR from Melee
3. Anna - 55.97 Melee
4. Tellah - 49.14 Melee
5. Glabrezu - 64.03 Melee (He has powerful SoS/D spells as well, and will launch those before engaging in melee)
6. Rat Swarms - Not Significant, Main function is to cause enemies to become Nauseated.
7. Cheetahs - 24.11 Melee per Cheetah. Will typically have from 6 to 12 on the field. And so 144.66 to 289.32 DPR
9. Dire Bats - 8.5 Melee per Bat. From 6, up to 12 bats = 51.03 to 102 DPR.
GRAND TOTAL: 329 - 473.66 or Less if using Dire Bats.
DPR calculations assume vanilla situations, and do not account for Other Game Mechanics, such as targets being Flanked, Tripped, Paralyzed, Grappled, Stunned, Nauseated, or any other type of non-damage effect which can cause the total DPR to be significantly higher or lower. And so playing out various contingencies isn't entirely useful because there are as many that will be in my favor, as there will be against. Maybe I'm missing something critical though.
My Planned Strategy:
:
Pre-Combat
SPOONY: Cast Good Hope (5/6 3rd lvl spells left) to bump my Cha Check. Call Glabrezu (21/31 Bardic Performance left). Make Infernal Bargain and then opposed Cha check (My D20+11 vs His D20+5). Tripple Time (20/31 BP left).
ANNA: Cast Bark Skin on Spoony, Anna, Tellah, and Rodchester (0/4 2nd lvl spells left). Cast Greater Magic Fang on Anna and Tellah (0/2 3rd lvl spells left).
Round 0
SPOONY: If exactly location of Enemy is unknown, Use Attract Rats (2D3+1)(19/31 BP left), Exquisite Accompaniment (4/6 3rd lvl spells left). Send to scour area, screech when enemy found.
ANNA: Defend Spoony until he commands otherwise.
TELLAH: Defend Spoony (Ready Action to Pounce tough looking baddy when they're w/in 30')
RODCHESTER: Fly out and Cast Stinking Cloud on Enemy, then return.
Glabrezu: Defend Spoony (Ready Action to cast PW: Stun on toughest baddie)
RAT SWARMS: Keep 1-2 near Spoony (Ready action to Attack enemies w/in 30'), and the rest will harry the enemy, keeping them Nauseated or at least on the move and maybe burn some limited resources.
Round 2
SPOONY: SNA IV 1D3+1 Cheetahs (full round, 1/3 4th lvl spells left)
Round 3
SOONY: SNA IV 1D3+1 Cheetahs (full round, 0/3 4th lvl spells left)
ANNA: SNA IV 1D3+1 Cheetahs (full round, 0/1 4th lvl spells left)
RODCHESTER: Ready action to Acid Dart, or fly over and Breath Attack enemy within 30'
Round 4
SPOONY: Haste (11 allies, Self, Rodchester, Anna, Tellah, then 7 Cheetahs), Move group toward enemy, ~60 feet/10 squares wroth)
EVERYONE ELSE: Stay w/in 30' of Spoony as reasonably as possible, unless there's an aoe blaster. Roam/Swarm over the battlefield ravaging as we go.
Round 5
Are they still alive?
SPOONY: If Significant Enemies are Nauseated: Good Hope (11 allies, Self, Rodchester, Anna, Tellah, then 7 cheetahs), Move group toward more enemies.
If Not, Hold Person or Blindness/Deafness (Save DC 21, 5/6 2nd lvl spells left).
If Enemies pose serious personal direct target threat to Spoony, Displacement (50% miss chance, 3/6 3rd lvl spells left)
Round 6
Still going?
SPOONY: Initial Exquisite Accompaniment has probably dropped. Let it go along with Rats, keep up Inspire Courage (Free Action, 16/31 BP left). SoS/D remaining baddies as we roam the battle field.
If you don't already have the same intense headache from reading this, as I now have after writing this :P I think it would be helpful for myself to discuss what I've done well, what I've done wrong, and maybe run this character through other scenarios, combat or social.
It just seems like he can do anything short of 7-9th level game shattering spells, and do it superbly. And so I wonder, are Bard's really the 5th wheel? Or are they one of the strongest classes? Discussion welcome :)
Below is an attempt at creating a Necromancer Base Class that isn't inherently evil, and isn't some chopped up version of a Wizard or Cleric.
I want to preface by saying that my table is happy with this class as is. However, because I am posting this in a public forum, I am happy to shape this class to be more in line with the Pfr Community's expectations.
What I would appreciate as feed back: 1) What, if anything, do you like about my approach to the concept. 2) Are the abilities interesting enough to justify playing this class. 3) Are the abilities balanced. 4) Suggestions to improve any/all of the above.
What I would not like to see as feed back: 1) Pathfinder doesn't need this. 2) Necromancers must be evil.. etc. 3) This tramples on the toes of class x, and so shouldn't be allowed.. etc.
We can all accept the idea of 'role' overlap. I feel that this class provides a unique play-style, unique abilities, and fills a unique niche in a combat situation.
This iteration of the Necromancer is a support class, who has some offensive abilities, some crowd control, is a 'touch-attacker', and has a great set of escape/mobility options.
This class has been played up to level 8 in a Standard, 20-point Pathfinder Campaign. Our table has seen this class use his abilities to turn potentially disastrous encounters into successes, but in no way does this class dominate the group. It is pretty much a T3 class, perhaps on the high end.
Combined with the Monk Archetype, Monk of the Empty Hand, and Improvised Weapon Mastery, this allows a 6th level monk using any staff-like item to Flurry of Blows, dealing 1D8 plus Full Strength bonus per strike and treats all targets as Flat-footed. He would also be able to enchant this weapon with +'d bonuses, Fiery, Holy, etc, potentially dealing even more damage.
Which melee classes would be most susceptible to this combo? I know that the Rogue and Barbarian are basically immune due to Uncanny Dodge, but how would the others fare?
Reading JaronK's Tier System, and several threads which compare the power level of spell casters to the Martial classes, where each finds the disparity quite egregious. I wonder if there is a simple fix in making the 'cost' of casting a spell self-deterring.
For example, Haste is a go-to spell, and is quite wonderful, but would the arcanist be so quick to let it fly if it cost him 5,000gp? If the encounter were significant, absolutely; I'm sure the party would assume part of the cost. If it were a random grid encounter from traveling unexplored regions? Very likely not, they'd rather let the Martials do the brunt of the work, and save their precious resources for when they are really needed. This pumps the need for martials from 'meh' to 'vital', and also forces the casters to rely more on their inherent non-spell abilities, such as Domain or Specialty abilities. This happens because material resources are limited, and so spell economy would be very, very conservative. I think bloodline-like powers would be less theme and more exciting as well.
By the way, 'cost' is an abstraction, mostly referring to consumed material components worth X amount :) Just clarifying.
Should this be a static cost based on the level of the spell? Or should you simply hack a cost into those spells which seem to break the game?
For example:
Cantrips/Orisons and Level 1 spells cost nothing.
Level 2 Spells: 10g
Level 3 Spells: 100g
level 4 Spells: 1000g
Level 5 Spells: 5000g
Level 6 Spells: 10000g
Level 7 Spells: 25000g
Level 8 Spells: 50000g
Level 9 Spells: 100000g (they break the game after all :P )
Or is it more correct to append a cost to the overly used, game changing spells which are typically used in arguments about how X caster is always better than X martials; like haste? Or in cases where a spell allows a caster to be better at martialing than a martial; such as Divine Favor, Mage Armor, etc. I think this would depend on how interdependent you want the group, where the goal is heavy leaning teamwork.
For example: Cure spells would cost nothing, as would direct damage spells, but SoS and SoD spells would have a hefty fee, as would the summon monster spells.
I think this approach allows the group to better target problematic spells, and curb power-disparity based on the group make up. And I think the over all advantage of this approach is that the most powerful spells are absolutely still there to be used, but now they must be used wisely.
Potential issues:
1. Wizard Specialists, such as Conjurers and Transmuters might bear and unfair tax load.
2. What do we do with hybrid casters, such as the Ranger and Paladin whose spell lists are good compliments and not at all game-breaking?
3. Some classes might have inferior non-spell abilities, such as the Bloodline powers (when compared to Mysteries, Eidolon or Druid Pet, Domains, etc), which fail to deliver enough utility and fun when the encounter isn't worth the cost of using their big guns.
Play tested, works well, a decent but not huge improvement to DPR that places him within +/-5 DPR of a 2H-Fighter Archetype, and a perfect correction to his AC problem. Simply add this as a level 1 class feature for all starting Monks.
Quote:
MARTIAL ARTS:
Add your Wisdom to your CMB and CMD. Use your CMB as your Melee Attack modifier. Use CMD as your AC. When making unarmed strikes, treat your target as flat-footed unless it has Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, or Improved Unarmed Strike.
The gist is that you fight in an unconventional way, you're not blocking with a weapon, more so you're moving inside their reach, wrist locking, stealing their inertia, etc. You don't wear armor, you don't fight with weapons... you shouldn't be using the conventional AC and BaB modifiers because everything you do is some sort of Combat Maneuver; even your way of dealing damage. So this is thematically appropriate as well as balanced.
