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I'd like to kind of make an observation, not on the steampunk (which I feel is a wonderful idea) but on the comment that Carrion Crown is horror, with a serious story to tell. Honestly, while this adventure path has been a diverting and entertaining one, as a vehicle to tell a horror adventure, it is a failure. Horror is so much more than providing a gothic setting for an adventure, and there are so many missing elements that I hardly know where to start. From poor rule design and overused plot devices (here's looking at you, haunts), to a disjointed story, to a lack of grey morality (anytime a PC might have to make a morally 'grey' decision, the authors gave them an easy out, such as creating a 'non-evil' werewolf tribe to ally with).

I picked up this path because it reminded me a lot of the Ravenloft setting, but it falls far short of capturing that feeling of personal horror that Ravenloft conveyed so well. Make no mistake, my players and I are enjoying Carrion Crown, but only after I restructured the themes to fit a more heroic, high-fantasy feeling, because it was failing as a horror story. And that's why I think it's a perfect fit for your Steampunk setting, because a bit of humor (and story reconstruction) could go a long way into making this a better adventure path.

The party picked up another new member, Arcee, a half-savage tribal half-elf barbarian fighter, a tribal protector who's tribe was wiped out by the Whispering Way in their pursuit of their current agenda (and need to bolster their undead forces). Of a more neutral outlook, she despises arcane casters and necromancy in particular.

Current Party Makeup:
Mardenu - LE Elven Wizard 9 (Invoker)
Stix - NE Gnome Sorcerer 9 (Fey Bloodline)
Raknar - CE Orc Barbarian 9 (Scarred Rager)
Gimmelot - N Dwarf Cleric 9 (Desna; Freedom and Travel)
Lieutenant Redgrave - LG Paladin 9 (Iomedae, Oathbound: Vengeance)
Arcee - N Barbarian 2, Fighter 10 (Polearm)

The party has taken a slight shift towards good, though really they're more of a ruthless neutral than anything else. The paladin once again reigned in the more overt evil acts that Stix and Raknar are prone towards doing, Stix out of capriciousness and Raknar from sheer cruelty. I'm looking forward to seeing what will happen with this group when they reach the moral grey areas presented in the fifth installment of the AP.

So the party continues to get less and less evil. The new PC joining (replacing the fallen Aiden) is a Paladin in service to Iomedae, who's squadron of soldiers was wiped out on patrol by the Whispering Way and their undead minions (so convenient!). Oathbound to take vengeance upon them and to wipe out the cult of undead, he's willing to overlook some of the less than savory natures of his newfound party, in order to defeat the Whispering Way. Still, he's already had clashes with Raknar, though he's also done a good job at reigning in Raknar's more savage nature.

I don't think Serpentine's Natural AC would stack with Draconic/DD.

If you gain Claws by some other means, those Claws don't work to trigger DD's Bite attack, nor the Energy Damage.

I'm kind of confused as to the purpose of those sentences; as they are talking about two completely separate abilities.

The DD natural armor ability states that it stacks with existing AC.

The serpentine bite would need to be triggered separately from claws, but since it's a free action that's a non-issue.

That's true enough. Hmm, you could also get EH Serpentine to go along with Draconic for your sorcerer bloodline. That would give you an additional +3 natural armor (for +10 total) and the ability to bite with a scaling poison DC. And fort is oftentimes a caster's weakness (though immunity to poison is very easy to obtain so it might not really help all that much).

Wasum wrote:

Edit: natural weapons do less DPR than manufactured ones for these builds

True, but they come in handy if you need to go the "Antimagic Field" route. The bite is (Ex) after all and not only does 1 1/2 Str, but also adds 1d6 energy damage that would still work in the field.

I'm not sure about this. The bite is (Ex), but states that you only get the bite when manifesting claws, which I believe are (Su). If so, it would seem to me that you can't manifest the bite in an AMF...

I never understood why people think that caster's are the best anti-casters. Exactly what can a caster do to stop another caster that any other class can't if they truly wanted to?

I agree with you on this, however in the context of this thread, the OP stated he wanted to make a mage-killing caster.

I've toyed with the idea of an EH (draconic) paladin 9/sorcerer 1/dragon disciple 10 built around natural attacks (would work in both dragon form and through the claws ability). You'd need a GM that would allow Multiattack and Imp. Natural Attack, but there's a lot that such a build would have going for it. The +4 Strength, +2 Con would certainly help out the paladin's tendency to suffer from MAD.

You're right Highglander, in many of your points, however I suppose I didn't make my build clear, nor the uses to which I put the scrolls. I stated it was a sorcerer/dragon disciple, I didn't state the actual build, nor did I state that it was a full DD progression. So, since that seems to have created a great deal of misunderstanding, let me post some rudimentary stats on a level 20 build. This is not the identical one that my PC is using as we're in a dragonlance campaign, with some campaign-specific alterations (we're also currently level 18, not 20).

Again, I reiterate this build was not meant to be optimized (I don't believe a melee full caster can be optimized), but it does seem to fill the requirements of the OP. Can hold its own in melee, gets full access to 9th level spells and can definitely ruin opposing casters through disjunction+quickened dimensional anchor. Spell Turning provides protections against Greater Dispels (AoE variants of GDM aren't quite as nasty as targeted dispel). It can also function within an AMF, at least better than a full caster would, so that's an option if there are no summoned minions on the field of play.

Yes, diviners would still present a problem for this build... you've got me on that one. But diviners create lots of issues; period.

Except your NOT a full caster. No 9th level spell = NOT A FULL CASTER. Hell you don't even get 8th so your just basically a SMIDGE above the 3/4 casters...which I can guarantee can out melee you.

Being able to cast 9th level spells is overrated. Yes, they are the pinnacle of casting power, but again, I'm going to point to scrolls and UMD as an easy way of getting around the limitations of having full-casting. Any 9th level spell my PC needs is on a scroll, and he's not capable of failing the UMD check to cast it. I'm not trying to undermine the value of builds that cast 9th level spells, however there is value in going with a different build and supplementing your lack of spells with scrolls. Heck, even when I play straight casters I still drop a bundle on scrolls. I can only have so many spells memorized/known, and you can bet that any other spell I might conceivably need is going to be on a scroll. So I guess I've never really understood the mindset that just because a spell isn't on my list, I can't cast it. I guarantee you that if a spell is useful to my build, I'll find a way to cast it.

As for the discussion on the impact of crafting feats on a party, as a standard rule of thumb in our house games, we count Craft feats as 75% of cost when crafting for party members. They get a discount because of their friend, but it's his time and expertise and he still charges for a profit. But you're right, we certainly don't run a strict WBL campaign. When going through character creation, we do it WBL (unless you have crafting feats), but after that, it sort of goes out the window. That being said, we also don't go by CR for encounters either. Whether it's running enemies with max hp and extra actions, or simply giving them multiple lower level CR minions without affecting the CR of the encounter, fights are generally far more difficult than they would be going baseline.

You're right on that account. While the build does extremely well against casters and has some ability to block their escape, it's not going to be able to force a fully optimized high level caster from fleeing if they're set up to do so. I suggested it because the OP stated he wanted a martial full caster build that could kill mages. In that, I think the the build has merit.

As for the buffs and being item-dependent, yeah ihave a predeliction for crafting feats and UMD. My PCs generally carry around twice the usual number of items by character wealth. Anyhow, I'll be the first to admit it's not a fully optimized build, but again, I had the impression this was a thread about a niche build, not necessarily an excersize in optimization.

Except the fact that your points again don't hold water. But if you couldn't even be bothered to read in enough detail to get the class right, I'm done arguing with you on anything else. Come back when you have something useful or constructive to offer, otherwise I'm done dealing with trolls.

If you're going with a humanoid tiger, I'd suggest dropping the number of attacks down to 5, and building in the pounce ability. It would make more thematic sense (and probably be more useful in the long run).

As scythia pointed out, Improved Natural Attack.

If the DM allows custom-built magic items, a permanent ring of enlarge person is nice, which stacks the weapon size increase with Improved Natural Attack.

As a rogue, you can also get UMD and load up on gear such as a Wand of Righteous Might (better than Enlarge Person), there are also a variety of Ranger spells that buff natural attacks, wands of those would probably work well also.

Piranha Strike would help you increase the damage considerably, since you're Dex-based and using natural attacks, it's better than Power Attack

And sorry, Highglander, my sarcasm was meant more for Wassum than you. You brought up legitimate points, instead of Wassum's passive aggressive pot-shots and "Oh noes, guys, who said u get to buff before going into a fight, ur PCs, u should ALWAYS be surprised." So your ideas are welcomed, and I do appreciate the distinction on Greater Spell Immunity. But I still stand behind this build as being an effective one for someone that wants to try wizard-killing with a magic-using build.

Also as a side note that's a good point about Greater Spell Immunity, although Spell Turning still works against Greater Dispel, so it's not much of a loss there. And that would help work against that exact build you linked me. I didn't read it in depth, but being able to deflect his Dispel and stun him would pretty much destroy him right from the get-go, no?

I'm not saying this build is an optimized beat everything build. But the OP asked for ideas on how to make a magic-using mage killer, and considering I'm currently playing one to very good effect, I thought I'd chime in and share the concept at the very least. And considering that you haven't seen the build, but are just dissecting the idea without knowing any of the numbers behind it is ridiculous. I already know it works, I'm not asking for your opinion on that, I'm providing the theoretical idea for a guy that was asking for it.

And yes, the dispeller would also make a very good mage-killer. As would a counterspeller. Both builds have some limitations to them that make them vulnerable to other things that this build isn't vulnerable to. So there's pros and cons to different builds, this is only one of many routes someone could go.

Funny, AMF is one of the spells he runs, because even without buffs, he's far better than any wizard. So yeah, dropping AMF is pretty much auto-death for any high level caster. Good luck there. Massive summoning again is dispelled by either disjunction or AMF, prismatic spheres are irrelevant, so the only real obstacle you've presented are gates. And yes, gating is an issue, which is the only time he actually needs his melee buffs. But gate can't protect the caster from dying, and the summoned monsters can be dealt with after that.

And if a diviner is the only wizard build you can come up with that can present a challenge for him, then I'd say in the majority of fights, it's a fairly solid build. Again, while the dispeller is casting Greater Dispel, he's getting disjoined and one-shot. So sure, spend actions dispelling, because on a playing field without magic, the wizard is going to lose.

As for the Prayer Beads, oh no, whatever will I do, I can't cast divine spells. Oh wait, I have Use Magic Device, to emulate the class feature of casting divine magic. Oh right, those rules things are a pain to read, aren't they?

Let's also not forget the fighter has a variety of other feats at his disposal to increase his effectiveness in combat. Disruptive, Spell Breaker, Step Up and Strike, Improved Sunder, Greater Sunder, etc.

Boots of Speed are 12,000 gp, so would still be affordable under that presumption. And I'd rather have those than a +2 greatsword, to be honest. A masterwork greatsword would serve just as well, and your damage would be far higher being hasted, than the extra +1 attack/+3 damage.

But even if you went with the +2 greatsword, you still have enough left over for a +2 strength belt, which again, increases the damage. A 10th level fighter should have a strength of 24, not 20 (18 base, +2 racial, +2 level, +2 item).

I'm currently playing a melee sorcerer, so let me tell you from personal experience, it can very easily be done. Not only is it a competitive build, the only PC in the group that can outdamage him is the fighter (archer). And he contributes far more to combat than just damage, so he's easily one of the most useful PC in the group. I did go dragon disciple, so it might be more difficult as Boreal which gives you very limited melee abilities.

However, if I can advise the feat/spell progression, let me say that you'll want to focus on strength more than charisma, and having a 16 dex is relatively worthless. Arcane Strike might be more useful, but think about making a charger build. As a caster, you can have access to a lot of powerful mounts via Summoning spells (even if your DM doesn't give you access to Leadership), so Spirited Charge is great, particularly with your lack of access to a lot of melee feats (it's the least feat-intensive damage build).

With a lower Charisma than a standard sorcerer, focus on buffs, debuffs and battlefield control (such as Walls). Summoning spells are great, not just for setting up flanking, but also to summon you flying mounts as soon as possible.

If you don't go with a Charger, I would still recommend stacking damage for a single attack, due to your horrendous BAB. Vital Strike (and it's derivatives) are an absolute must. You only want one attack, and you want it to be as effective as possible. Size altering buffs are great (Enlarge Person early on, Giant Form later in the game). Consider delving into Use Magic Device and stocking up on Cleric wands and scrolls (wand of righteous might ftw).

Except a fighter would have a strength higher than 20, would likely have boots of speed, etc... So you're looking at a higher attack bonus, and significantly more damage. It's not a competitive build, on par with a PC of equivalent level. And that's fine, it's not supposed to be.

Let's look at the buffs I mentioned:

Nondetection Duration: 1 hour/level, CL 24 (24 hour duration)
Spell Turning Duration: 10 minutes/level, CL 24 (480 minutes with Extend Spell = 8 hours duration)
Spell ResistenceDuration: 1 minute/level (worth casting when danger is imminent, but not part of the daily buffs. Can be precast before combat though, because with Extend Spell, this does last over half an hour)
Protection from Energy Duration: 10 minutes/level, CL 24 (480 minutes with Extend Spell = 8 hours duration)
Greater Spell Immunity Duration: 10 minutes/level, CL 24 (480 minutes with Extend Spell = 8 hours duration)It's worth noting that this makes you immune to Greater Dispel Magic, along with a variety of other effects.
True Seeing Duration: 1 minute/level (worth casting when danger is imminent, but not part of the daily buffs. Can be precast before combat though, because with Extend Spell, this does last over half an hour)
Arcane Sight Duration: 1 minute/level (worth casting when danger is imminent, but not part of the daily buffs. Can be precast before combat though, because with Extend Spell, this does last over half an hour)

Giant Form II and Greater Heroism are combat buffs cast only when we're dealing with multiple opponents with significant melee abilities. Haste is as needed due to Boots of Speed. Spells like Arcane Sight and True Seeing are often cast as needed, True Seeing in particular is recast whenever it goes down, if he's ever out adventuring.

So tell me how, exactly, that it's unrealistic to walk around with these buffs? Let me also state that he has no offensive spells (save Enervation). Buffing and debuffing is all he does, along with lots of damage via melee combat (+5 holy keen lance, Spirited Charge on his dragon).

Yes, and that's optimally buffed for big 'showdown' fights. Show my a single encounter in an adventure path where the PCs 'don't' know that they're about to fight the BBEG. He doesn't go into all encounters with full buffs running (Giant Form II for example is rarely needed, in fact he prefers his Ring of permanent Enlarge Person for normal combats, as going Huge negates his ability to ride his cohort (a Huge silver dragon). Honestly, none of the buffs are needed to actually kill the wizard. The Mage's Disjunction/Quickened Dimensional Anchor is enough to kill any wizard. The buffs are only needed in BBEG fights because the wizard isn't alone, and you need those buffs to hold off all his minions after you kill him.

And again, many of those buffs are hour/level or 24 hour buffs; in fact, the significant anti-wizard buffs can all be pre-cast upon awakening. It's the melee buffs that require time and those are only needed if the wizard isn't going to be alone.

Except that many of those buffs last long enough to cast out of combat. The rest of them are easily cast within combat with nonactions (like Haste). At 18th level, with an Extend Rod, even minute/level duration is feasible to cast when you know combat is fairly likely. And the majority of those spells are long-lasting. As for the Greater Dispel, did you not see the Prayer Beads part? I'm more than willing to take a chance against Greater Dispel.

It's a high level campaign, if a GM can't handle massive buffs, then he shouldn't be GMing high level campaigns. If, in the case of having GM's that tried to strong-arm me away from self-buffing, well it's easy enough to start with a Quickened, Empowered Time-Stop, self-buff, then proceed to go to town as per usual.

This little guy, on a full attack, using pirana strike, can do, at +16, 3d2+1d3+48 damage; how is that not pulling his weight for a lvl 9 character? A fighter with a 20 Str, Weapon Specilization Longsword, a +2 longsword, attacking twice in a round with Power Attack, can do 2d8+30 damage.

Because no Fighter would be attacking twice a round with a longsword. They'll either be dual-wielding (which is itself sub-par), using a two-handed weapon (which ups their damage considerably), or if they're actually wielding a single, one-handed weapon, they'll be sword and boarding it, and getting Shield Bashes with free bull-rush to supplement their longsword. Either way, they'll vastly out-shadow the pseudodragon. Which, according to the original poster, is just how he wants it. Think of the pseudodragon being the equivalent to the Improved Familiar with UMD that fires off lightning bolts with a wand every round. He's not a full PC, he's just flavor and a tiny bit of extra damage.

In the current campaign I'm running (which has spanned several years and taken us from 1 to 18), I'm playing what's evolved into a high level wizard killer. He's a melee sorcerer, his build revolving around self-buff and anti-magic spells. But sorcerer/dragon disciple that wades into combat with the usual package of melee buffs (in his case, Giant Form II, Greater Heroism, Haste, Protection from Energy, True Seeing, Arcane Sight, Nondetection, Spell Turning, Spell Resistence, Greater Spell Immunity, etc... Then you pop the Mage's Disjunction and Quickened Dimensional anchor on your target spellcaster. At that point it's just mop up detail. The nice thing is that as a sorcerer, you're more than adept with Use Magic Device, which allows you to boost yourself with Prayer Beads, and other divine spells you might want to play with. It's always nice to keep pocket heals on scrolls, just in case things go badly.

No problem, Voomer. There's a lot of rules that come up so infrequently that it's hard to know if you've missed one or not. That one is definitely one of them, it came up in our game because one of the PCs spellcrafted the triggered Monster Summoning trap to see if he could figure out a way to deal with it so we had to go digging through books to figure it out.

Lord Snow - Just because the PCs dislike inbred, racist backwater country hicks doesn't mean they didn't enjoy the campaign. They just enjoyed it in a different manner than the writers of the the book intended it. The country of Ustalav is really a despicable one, looked at objectively, and the PCs (being more cosmopolitan than Ustalav, save for the orc barbarian who had reasons of his own to despise Ustalav) have reacted with the contempt that you might expect them to. They got along far better with the nobles in the Shudderwood... or for that matter, with the werewolves themselves. They really hit it off with the Prince's Wolves. I imagine however, that by the time they reach the suspicious dark cultist yokels in Adventure Path 4, they might be ready to committ wholesale slaughter. We'll see however, we're just starting that path. Not everyone needs to play archetypal heroes to have fun; we happen to prefer darker, more realistic approaches to our PC-building. That doesn't make them better or worse than shiny happy heroes, it just makes them different. Trust me I would rather GM for these guys than any other group I've ever played with.

Voomer - The rules for summoned monsters is right before the spells section, where they give details about the various subschools of magic. So you won't find it written into the spell description, but the school description itself. I'd give you page numbers and quotes but I'm at work right now, so don't have access to my books.

Actually, both the Erinyes and the Air Elemental were Summoned Monsters. Which means they were only there for an extremely limited duration and couldn't move out of the area of effect of the summoning. So really, any players with the ability to realize that could just have outweighted them, so long as they had a GM that knew the rules.

I do share your opinions on much of Schloss Caromarc though, particularly that there were some things out of place that just didn't make sense to be there, like the flesh golem hound. As far as the trial itself and the Beast goes however, the group I'm running for had little interest in either. While they enjoyed investigating it (particularly V&G), the PCs didn't really like the Beast very much, and were more than contemptuous of the townsfolk. They forced the Summoner to do all the talking during the Trial, and towards the end were just trying to incite a riot because they wanted an excuse to slaughter the ignorant, inbred hicks (their words). Now granted, a lot of that is due to me trying to GM for an evil, judgemental party but it was certainly a different take on the trial. Our orc barbarian actually wanted to kill the Beast immediately. At first it was because the Beast was a challenge worthy of him, and then after the Beast's forlorn nature came out, it was because he had all that strength but was so pathetic and did nothing with it. Once he found out the Beast let himself be captured, he pronounced that the Beast deserved its fate and should burn. That being said, the lure of money and the pursuit of the Whispering Way was enough for him (and the rest) to end up saving the Beast. The party did enjoy grabbing the flayed skins of the townsfolk found at V&G and wearing them at the trial to further enrage the townsfolk. Let's just say that they're not really going to be welcomed back to Lepidstadt. Not that they have any real reason to want to go back there; I think the feeling in the party was that the Whispering Tyrant might have had the right idea in slaughtering the people there and turning them into zombies.

@Tinalles: Sadly that now seems less likely as the player of Mina is going to miss sessions until the new year because of her new job. So she's going to be temporarily written out of the story until her player can come back full time. But on to the updates.

Name:Aiden
Race: Human
Classes/levels: Fighter (Archer) 8
Adventure: Broken Moon
Location: Feldgrau Tower
Catalyst: Auren Vrood
The Gory Details: Nothing fancy here, he just happened to roll a one on his save vs. Circle of Death. Cinematically, he shoved Raknar out of the way of the death magic, taking the full force of its power and dropping lifelessly to the ground as the combat begun.

Have to say I'm not a fan of your vision of gaming, the restrictions on alignment are diametrically opposite to the game I like to run. Not to mention, 20 point buy makes for very average, boring PCs. I've always felt that DMs that like low-power games do so because they are intimidated at the thought of dealing with competant PCs. That being said, there are a thousand different visions of the game, and none of them are wrong (okay a few are :) ), even if some of them clash.

That being said, here are a few rules I've picked up over they years.

1) Do away with enhancement bonuses being able to bypass damage reduction. If a monster has DR 10/silver, you should require a silver weapon to bypass it, not just a +3 weapon.

2) Make weapon finesse baseline into the game. It is nonsensical that Dexterity doesn't apply to light weapons already and forcing PCs to spend a feat on something that is common sense (how many bodybuilders would be able to stab with a rapier using their strength)was a mistake that Paizo should have fixed with Pathfinder, not allowed to linger.

3) Remove the LG alignment restriction from Paladins. IT's only archaic thinking that this Knights of the Round Table-inspired class hasn't had it's alignment spectrum broadened. Paladins should take power and tenets from their gods, not from their alignment. They should be Divine Champions; inspirations of everything it is to be holy warriors and beacons of their faith. I would limit them to only good or evil, but allow them to be of all spectrums on the law-chaos axis, developing ethose based around their deity. Obviously evil Divine Champions would use the Antipaladin class, which is just terribly named in any case.

4)Pinning doesn't stop thought-based magic. Sorry, if a spell has no verbal, somatic or material component, pinning a mage on the ground doesn't stop him from thinking.

You're definitely going the right route with natural attacks over weapons; weapons are far too pricey to synthesize into your build when it comes to spending your evolution points. Build towards additional limb and claw attacks; don't neglect a bite attack, and getting energy damage on your natural attacks is a thing of beauty as well (though I don't know if you can get that at 1st level). As you go up in levels, always remember that you have evolution surge as a spell to increase your power when fused. Personally, I don't think increases to armor are worth it with the build, I would go heavily into Constitution for increased hp, since you have a lot of tricks to play by being able to shift damage around from your eidolon to you. If your DM lets you take monster feats, Multiattack is the way to go.

Because you're going bipedal, you won't get pounce, which does hurt your build a bit, but you can make up for it by focusing on reach.

At 9th level, getting a monk airborne is always possible and practical. I don't understand how you feel wasting an action on giving a PC mediocre ranged fighting abilities is worthwhile, instead of wasting an action on allowing a melee combatant to fight to the fullest extent of his abilities. A flying mount with a fast movement speed would easily fix both of those issues however. But as a sidenote, if your monk with his increased movement and (presumably) 30' speed increase via haste (please tell me by 9th level your melee PC's are hasted), is unable to close with a flying opponent, then the issue is his ability to play and not necessarily a mechanical issue.

As a sidenote, even that can be corrected, via a well-timed wall of force to seriously inhibit a flying creature's ability to use Flyby Attack. Not that you can do anything about it as a cleric, but your arcane caster certainly could ready an action to cast Wall of Force at a creature using Flyby Attack. The results are generally spectacularly hilarious. For that matter, tactics can do wonders. Once airborne, the monk can delay his action, allow the caster to dimension door him to the target, whereupon he can grapple them after the dimension door. Sure it doesn't work on dragons, but there are a number of flying opponents with which this can wreak havoc.

Winged Boots are one of many low-cost methods of flying. As has already been stated Air Walk should be available to you by now. Since he's not a Sohei or Zen Archer, he's really not going to be good with ranged weapons, so he's better off finding ways to close to melee range, instead of finding a ranged weapon.

Also, you're at 9th level. He can always take the Leadership feat and grab a flying cohort to act as a mount.

Something to remember about the enhancement bonuses. On top of a 10% increase in your chance to hit (surely not needed with your primary attack, but your secondary and tertiary certainly benefit) and the +1 to damage, enhancement bonuses also affect other critical things. Each enhancement bonus adds to the weapons ability to bypass DR (starting at +3, weapons start being able to bypass DR, and at +5 they bypass any form of DR). Additionally, the enhancement bonus increases your weapons' hardness and hit points, making it that much more difficult to sunder. Yet more reasons, beyond the increase in accuracy and damage, to stick to increasing your enhancement bonus over anything else.

statistically speaking the only ability on a weapon worth taking (if you don't have Improved Critical) is keen. So keep getting enhancement bonuses until you get to +5. After that, you can look at other things such as wounding or holy, which also have value, just not nearly as good as the enhancement bonus. Speed is the most worthless enhancement you can get on a weapon. Not only is it horrifically overcosted(+3), but you can get Boots of Speed for a mere 10000 gp.

The bonuses Chernobyl mentioned are not enhancement bonuses (except for Greater Magic Weapon), and furthermore rely on having a party member to buff you, which isn't always the case. Certainly if you have a pocket caster, you can ignore the enhancement bonuses, but I wouldn't bet on it. Plus you're very vulnerable to a Greater Dispel Magic. Gloves of Dueling though, are a must for a fighter. There are some decent +gold enhancements you can get for weapons though, which don't cause your weapon to scale, and those are worth looking into.

Nevermind,I found it myself. I agree that in the RAW, it doesn't look like it would work. I still believe that the intent of the Titan Mauler class was to get around the RAW, but it never states that it allows the Titan Mauler to use weapons beyond what's allowed. Otherwise, it's not a Titan Mauler, it's an Ogre mauler...which really is kind of worthless. I'll have to keep it as a house-ruled ability then, because I refuse to allow a thematically fun class to become terrible through the devolopers inability to write.

There's also one more solution. Have your wizard take his life in the most disgusting way possible and re-roll a sorcerer. No spellbook, no components (save expensive ones which you shouldn't have too many of at level 9), no problem. Plus sorcerers are cooler anyhow, so it's really a win-win situation.

Where does it say you can't use oversized weapons? I mean, in the class description itself, it says directly that the titan mauler specializes in using weapons looted from their foes. Why scale the actual Titan Mauler ability to the point that you could use colossal weapons without penalty, if you never can actually wield colossal weapons? To me it seems quite clear that the designer's intent was to allow the barbarian to do just that.

Pendagast, yes it's an actual PF rule, as Voomer quoted the actual rule above. And you're right, it's a dumb rule. If you're not using it in your campaign already, there's no need to start.

Quick write up to follow up on the Titan Mauler. Incomplete, but I think I got most of the offensive abilities. Additional Rage powers could include Superstition, Rolling Dodge, or possibly Unexpected Strike (to set up future use of Snap Shot and Imp Snap Shot). You could also go Disruptive and Spellbreaker for the Snap Shot chain.

Goblin Barbarian 12 (Titan Mauler)
(25 point buy system)

Bse Enh Rage
Str 16 16 22
Dex 18 28 28
Con 10 10 16
Int 10 10 10
Wis 12 12 12
Cha 7 5 5

Init +9
BAB +12
CMB +16
CMD +25

Attacks: +27/+27/+27(2)/+22/+17
Attack Bonuses: BAB(+12), Dex(+9), Tiny (+2), Enh(+4), Haste(+1), RA(+4), BGH(+1), DA (-4), RS (-2)= +25
Damage (3d6+21) (+9str, +4weap, +8DA)

Large Composite Longbow (Gravity Bow) +4 (3d6)
Belt: +4 Str/Dex
Ring of Permanent Reduce Person
Boots of Haste

FEATS/ABILITIES
1) Big Game Hunter(+1 AR, +1 dodge vs larger enemies), Point Blank Shot, rage
2) Jotungrip, rage power (Reckless Abandon)
3) Precise Shot, Massive Weapons (-4 AR penalty reduced for using oversized weapons)
4) Rage power
5) Rapid Shot, Evade Reach
6) Rage power
7) Deadly Aim
8) Rage power
9) Manyshot
10) Rage power
11) Improved Precise Shot, greater rage
12) Rage power

What I like about this build (aside from the uniqueness) is the ability to customize your defenses through Rage Powers. Every build could differ depending on the rage power choices, which gives added flexibility not found in the fighter or ranger variants.

I'm not sure the specific rules on the + before it starts ignoring DR, but no, no one currently has a +3 weapon in Broken Moon. However I was speaking as a general rule within the campaigns I run, not just limited to Carrion Crown. In fact, our entire group has embraced the idea (we work on a rotating GM basis; two games always running concurrently, and we switch off games week to week), and we have all decided not to let magical + bypass DR.

There's a lot of good advice already on this thread, but I'll point out a few things I find essential:

1) Practice doing it right: You can practice the wrong thing a thousand times, but that won't make you any better at doing things properly. Figure out the rules ahead of time; if you're using a Sunderer in the next session, look up the rules for sundering. Familiarize yourself with terms and statblocks, when using spellcasters, make sure you are familiar with the spells they're using. GMs have far more to balance than players in a single session, so go in prepped ahead of time and do your homework.

2) Connect with your players: Wanting to play a high fantasy heroic game does nothing for your players if they're set on playing Watchmen-esque anti-heroes. A high society urban campaign won't appeal to the player base that wants to kill dragons and end undead hordes (unless the dragon is disguised as the Baron and is working to destablize the region for the latest cult of undeadedness [We're raising the dead and they're voting Republican!])Talk with your players before you begin the campaign, before you even decide what the campaign is going to be. Ask them what kind of PC's they want to play, what kind of game they want to be involved in, and plan around that.

3) High Drama > Dice Rolling: I've seen so many threads about how to balance campaign endings. Let me let you in on a little secret, the keystone of my entire GMing existence. The bad guys don't die until you're ready for them to die. It doesn't matter the hit points on the sheet, the numbers on the dice, any of that. If they haven't been challenged enough, he doesn't die. If you want to make it a Simulacrum and have the wizard step out from behind the curtain, then go for it. If you want reinforcements to pop out of nowhere, then go for it. The players don't know what's on your stat cards, so don't feel like you're committed to killing him off, just because they just reduced him to -10 hp on the stat card. If he hasn't made them sweat, it's not time for him to die. It's not over until the music stops.

4) Give them the pickle!: Listen to your players around the table, you'll pick up a lot about what they want, how they want their PCs to progress, and what sort of things they're currently interested in. Not that you have to cater to their every whim and desire, but incorporating some of those things into the campaign can make it far more rewarding than passing out 'x random magic treasures'. Pick up on key points: if an encounter with the local sheriff resonates with the PCs and makes them incredibly suspicious of the sheriff, to the point that they start obsessing over it, then perhaps he can play a larger role in the plot, even if you originally had the plot revolving around the banker's wife. Find a way to incorporate elements the PCs pick up on, into your gaming. A hot dog is boring without the condiments.

Anyone considered making a Barbarian Archer, using the Titan Mauler archetype? There's something to be said for wielding a colossal bow in combat (for that matter, would Gravity Bow still increase the damage beyond colossal?)I know going Barbarian makes you light on feats, but you can still get the essential ones, and 7 attacks a round with a colossal weapon and the power of barbarian rage behind it has to make up for quite a bit. For that matter, some of the rage powers are significant as well. Reckless Abandon seems far less Reckless when you're raging at the back of the party, peppering them with arrows.

Meh, I've never seen any trapper build worth it's salt; it's basically a novelty gimmick with no real in-game applications. At least not if you want someone able to trap effectively in combat. The best 'trap' I can think of is an alchemist with various bomb discoveries. I believe that there's one that has delayed blast bombs, which could make for some fairly potent traps. Add in the variety of additional effects that can be added to bombs, and that's way more efficient than any 'trapper' build I've seen.

Depending on the level of the game, you could also have fun with Symbol spells and Glyphs of Warding.

You're 9th level, there's no reason for you not to have a Handy Haversack with all your important gear in it. Additionally, I would look at increasing your Perception (Eyes of the Eagle ftw). Finally, if you want to be punitive, you could always start coating things in massive amounts of whatever contact poison happens to be the most vicious. Minor Creation is perhaps one of the most broken spells ever created, including the ability to create several cubic feet worth of whatever poison suits your need.

For that matter, if you're running low on gold, you can always use spells like Minor Creation and Mount to create things to sell to merchants. Just make sure to skip town before they vanish. And use various illusion/transmutation spells to change your appearance when you're doing the selling. If the world is going to rip you off, then you might as well get in on the action.

Going on with the minor creation thread, if there's so many thieves around, you can spread some wealth around town, make everyone know you've got the bling, then cover your entire room and all your 'fake' possessions in poison and laugh when the thieves come to rob you. Preferably from another room. Incorporating Grease and Web into the trap just makes for more lulz; particularly when you dump several cubic feet more poison onto the greased and webbed thieves. Also, Create Pit does this nicely. Alarm and Magic Mouth are good for alerting you when the thieves are near.

Taken in that context it seems a little better than the way it was originally presented. And honestly, if the PCs weren't smart enough to bypass the content using fly spells (or even utilizing Spider Climb to climb the cliffside on their own and make it to the final tower on the far cliff), then yes I suppose it would be encumbant on you, the DM to throw them a bone.

Getting back on topic, unless you, as a GM, plan on GMPCing an entire adventuring party aside from your wife, then Carrion Crown will likely be a bit too difficult for her. Might I suggest you think about allowing her to play a gestalt character? If you're not familiar with gestalt, the bare bones of it is that you allow her to play two classes simultaneously; so she could be an inquisitor/cleric, for example, leveling up both classes simultaneously, and taking the best of both classes (i.e., best save, best BAB, etc) while getting class features and spellcasting from both classes. That won't make up for missing a party, but it does help quite a bit.

I like that idea of silversheen. Having just finished the last werewolf encounter in Book 3, I can say that the PCs regret not having invested more in silversheen or silver weapons. They were just rolling past most of the werewolf encounters, but the last one with Adimarus Ionescu nearly killed 2/3 of the party, and it would have been a lot smoother if they had been able to bypass his DR.

Of course, I do have to point out that in the game I run, we don't allow magic weapons to bypass DR based on the amount of + it has. A +1-+5 enhancement to a blade is already statistically better than any other enhancement, excluding keen, there's no way I feel comfortable allowing it to bypass DR as well.

Actually, there were quite specific rules for what happens with the waterfall. Rules for falling, and damage dealt were all there in the adventure path. There's no real rules for scattering their equipment, that's left up to the DM. While not entirely realistic, because there's no rules for dropping items when falling, PC's do not drop their items. So I certainly don't blame the players for being upset when you made all their gear basically disappear. That's a major unwritten rule of DMing, be very careful how you mess with PC equipment.

Additionally, as far as the goblin encounter goes, it seems a little bit unnecessary for where it took place within the campaign. The PCs were in the middle of braving Schloss Caromarc, and you took them away from that and spent a considerable amount of time tracking down 'lost' equipment, detracting from the immediate story. Don't forget as well that there's a time limit on the Schloss Caromarc part because of the enraged mob rushing towards Schlosss Caromarc. Adding a random encounter is one thing, sidetracking the culmination of the adventure path is something else entirely. Personally, I feel there should be no random encounters once the PCs reach Schloss Caromarc... even if they fall into the water. This is the end of the adventure path, the culmination of everything they've been doing for the last several adventures. Now is not the time to sidetrack them with wacky randomness.

Thanks Yossarin; I like what your party has done as well, nothing like making the laws of the land work for the party instead of against them for once. If you're interested, I started a campaign journal of my PC's party, since they seem to be one of the few evil-aligned parties doing Carrion Crown. Although the evil has been slowly shifting towards good recently. Anyhow, here's the link, if you want to amuse yourself.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2oxey?Evil-Party-in-Carrion-Crown

For many months, I have been seeking (desperately) to try to advance my numerically smaller party to the appropriate level. But it seems as though at every turn, they have prevented me from giving them the requisite experience necessary to tackle each new chapter of Shackled City.

This problem began in Life's Bazaar, when they did not explore Jzadirune and the Malachite Fortress (instead focusing only on rescuing the kids). Instead they diplomatically had the City Watch take care of cleaning out the remaining areas. I tried to push their buttons by having the Stormblades enter the picture and brag about all the treasure they found underneath, but it didn't work. They felt so good about rescuing the children, they really didn't care who took the credit (real good people...URG!). So, I had to find a few side roleplaying excursions to get them ready for Flood Festival...which worked...at least for a while.

Thankfully they systematically went through the Lucky Monkey and killed everyone to a man. However, once they entered the Kopru ruins, they began with the "realistic portrayal" of their charcters once again. Right now, they have killed 3/4 of the mooks + Triel and have 3 wands in their possession. Thankfully I had Jenya tell them that she needed a minumum of 4 from them to do anything substantial, so they are at least debating on leaving not doing so outright. Most of the party wants to leave and get the City Watch to clean the rest of the place out (now that they have confirmed its location with hard evidence). This would be DISASTEROUS for Zenith's Trajectory as they are only 6th level right now. I'm ready to pull my hair out at this point.

I can empathize with their perspective: they were to confirm the location of the wands and retrive as many as they could. Right now they are depleted of resources and need help to retrieve the remainder. They are not typical adventurers and so are not enthralled by the idea of gold/XP as a motivator. All of them are deeply involved in the conspiracy of Cauldron and the politics surrounding the recent changes in the city. I hope they stick around and expore some more of the Kopru Ruins, but I get this sickly feeling that they are going to "get out of Dodge" as quickly as possible now.

The situation is this (as of now): They took the Northern-most entrance into the complex and swept through (killing everything in their path) to Triel's bedroom. She was slaughtered, but not before the general alert was sounded. Two mooks got away to warn Skaven and Tarkilar about the situation. I figure Tarkilar won't care at all; whereas Skaven would probably go to the "spider room." I'm sending the remaining mooks to ambush anyone who tries to take the cage out of the complex (as it is the only way out of here).

Can anyone suggest a motivator to keep them going temporarily, or otherwise? Or even a way to get them to come back? Or perhaps a sidequest to give them the experience they will need...

Background: So, right now we are in [u]Flood Season[/u] and the party has just finished the Lucky Monkey portion of the adventure. The PCs have brought back Delasharn's body to the Church and have begun to investigate the disappearance of the wands. With a divination from Jenya, they were able to decipher that the path to the wands began with a cook at the "Tipped Tankard." Thinking that they had the jump on things, they traveled to the Tavern almost immediately after solving the riddle (they are pretty smart people) and confronted the cook with the information. Artus, IMC, already knew from Jil that the group was coming and was told by her to steer them towards Triel (a member of the Extortion Division of the Last Laugh) in the hopes of humiliating her in the eyes of the Last Laugh Jesters. Because of the way this interaction went, the party has become extremely suspicious of the entire adventure. There have been proposals that Jenya is at the heart of a conspiracy to trap the PCs! I'm really not sure how to run with this as I think I have colored the entire campaign by playing Artus the way I did. Basically, this is what happened:

PCs go to the TT and ask for Artus to come out. He comes out ahd immediately sits down in the chair across from the PCs and basically asks what they want (bear in mind, he was threatened by Jil to make sure he steered the PCs towards Triel). The party wants information on Triel, so he lays the "Note" (the one that is in the adventure) right on the table and leaves. At this point the party goes apes**t. "How could he have written that note so fast unless we knew we were coming?"...etc. I wanted it to seem suspicious but I didn't know they would jump on the conspiracy so fast. Essentially at this point, it took all my RPing power to convince them that there was city in peril and that they were the only ones who could help. I think eventually they will go after the wands, but I'm not sure that I can even move the story forward after this. I wanted to set up Jil as a longterm villian they could feel good about killing, but how the hell are they going to take the [u]Zenith Trajectory[/u] hook after this?

What do I do at this point? I mean I wanted Jil to send them a taunting "Thank You" note after they killed Triel and her crew, but now I'm not sure what to do anymore. I really like this adventure and don't want to see hours and hours of hard work go to waste...

My party seems to be falling behind the recommended level advancement. They are a group of 4 and unfortunately had some close calls in both Jzadirune and the Malachite Hold to the point that they did not even complete either complex fully. I tried to give out some more XP for roleplaying during the Feast before the actual Flood Season adventure began, but they are all only around 4th level (I am not running Drakar's Way as I do not have the SCAP Hardcover book and began Flood Season before it came out anyway).

I think the team might be in big trouble at the Lucky Monkey. A well prepared party of five 4th level characters would have a rough go at it...I think I might have set them up for disaster. Any ideas on how to avert disaster at the Lucky Monkey and get this party where they need to be?

Shensen's gift (Boots of Striding and Springing) will definately help them at the Kopru ruins, but does anyone think that I need to give them a little more support before they go fight the Ebon Triad? Perhaps a gift from the Jenya as thanks for bringing Sarcem back?

While Saburo’s adjustment to the surrounding climate was a shock [his native homeland was generally covered in snow], the culture was what baffled him the most [prior to the start of this game, this character had lived in Rokugan, a quasi-Japanese setting]. His first encounter was actually with Alexis Tercival [I had to change the NPC’s gender!], a religious warrior who seemed to be escorting a very important member of her faith out of Cauldron in the dead of night [this is Sarcem Delasharn on his way to Sasserine to collect the Wands for the Flood Festival]. The encounter was brief and civil. Alexis recommended the Drunken Morkoth Inn as a place to spend the night and when Saburo made it clear that he had no money of any kind, she donated 3 of her own gold pieces to help him get established.

Saburo never made it to the Inn, as he stumbled into Ruphus getting assaulted by three members of the Last Laugh. The thugs told him to “bugger off,” but he would have none of it. In an effort to save the dying priest, Saburo fired an Energy Ray into the air to both intimidate them and warn the City Watch [this was really a brilliant ploy that worked wonderfully…Saburo put so much emphasis on the wonder of his power that the 3 men didn’t stop to consider the distance a “ray of fire” can be seen at night]. Two of the thugs lunged at him, but Saburo met them head on with steel. He was able to injure one of them and hold off the other long enough for the Watch to arrive. The men fled and Jil gave her speech before doing the same. The guard that arrived first on the scene introduced himself as Skylar Krewis and took their deposition before letting them go.

Ruphus thanked Saburo profusely all the way back to the Church and asked if he would join him inside so that the head of his Order could do the same. Having nothing better to do, he accepted and listened to Jenya intently. She explained that there had been numerous kidnappings, the most recent of which had claimed four children at the local orphanage. Because the Church had publicly announced its intentions of finding the lost children, there had been added pressure on High Priestess Urikas to complete this task quickly. She offered Saburo an advance on the 2,500 GP reward and two potions of healing if he would accept the task of returning the children to the orphanage. Needless to say that the money was very enticing, but Saburo accepted because he believed this to be part of his destiny. It was only then that Jenya divulged the riddle she had received from the Star of Justice. Ruphus was to act as a link between the Church and the foreigner [Jenya believed that the less people knew about Saburo’s investigation, the higher his chances of success].

With cash in hand, Saburo set out to solve this puzzle…but not before getting his drink on! He spent the next few days and nights touring the various establishments that offered booze to see if anyone was interested in his own blend of alcohol. He spent a particularly long time speaking with Brottor Dagnal [Meerthan Eliothlorn] about Dwarven Spirits and the proper paperwork necessary to build a business from the ground up. It was not that Saburo was callous or greedy; it was that he wanted to be sure that everyone thought he didn’t give a lick about what was going on. Ruphus was tasked by Saburo, during this time, to do specific research on the kidnappings. With all the facts in play, it didn’t take the strange foreigner to deduce that Ghelve was somehow involved.

The pair of investigators confronted him not long afterwards. Saburo remained outside the house during the questioning, so as to engage anyone whom he thought might be shadowing them. He sent his psicrystal in with Ruphus to make sure he could react quickly if there was trouble. Inevitably, he was signaled from inside that a conflict was brewing and so he entered the fastest way he could: through the window. Bursting onto the scene, he saw Ruphus locked in combat with a wounded Skulk and a wimpering Ghelve in the corner of the room. The Skulk, sensing that its time had drawn near, attempted to flee but was quickly brought down by both men. Saburo used the flat of his blade during the fight to ensure that the creature would survive for questioning.

Once the Skulk was bound and gagged, the men set to questioning Ghelve about all that had transpired over the past 2 months. He gave up everything and even told them about an old map he had of Jzadirune. Both Saburo and Ruphus were disgusted with him and gleefully handed him over to the City Watch along with the Skulk. Of course, their strange story did raise a few eyebrows, but the body of the Skulk was all the soldiers needed for confirmation. Ghelve’s Locks was quickly quarantined with a small regimen of soldiers and the entrance to Jzadirune heavily guarded. Saburo and Ruphus told the Sergeant on duty, a dwarf by the name of Arduun, that they would press onward to avoid any further delay. They also requested any men Sgt. Arduun could spare. The dwarf told them that he couldn’t spare soldiers at this time, but would look the other way if anyone wanted to “head home early” for the day. Skylar Krewis was the only man to volunteer.

That is where we ended.

RANDOM THOUGHTS:
-Roleplaying the HUGE differences in Eastern and Western culture was fun, but took an awfully long time
-My dice SUCKED all night: I couldn't hit squat with anything
-Saburo's PC was ultra-paranoid about the Last Laugh and thought the town guard was part of some huge conspiracy. I was rather miffed that he didn't participate in the collection of information, but it was kind of nice to roleplay out all the drunken situations he got himself into
-None of the challenges were particularily tough for 2 PCs at this stage in the game because of their high levels...this isn't the case later on, which is why I had Krewis volunteer to help despite the fact that I KNEW he needed to be alive later

Hey all.

I have finally begun the Shackled City adventure path after many months of delay. As it turns out, one of my players is extremely paranoid and has a conspiracy theory about everything (most of them fairly accurate). One of his goals is to gain membership into the Last Laugh, so he can "get to the bottom of everything." Has anyone ever encountered a scenario like this in their own campaign? If so, how did you deal with it? To me it seems like getting your foot in the door of a well established organization like this might be hard, but then again I don't see why they wouldn't be interested in new membership...

Please let me know if anyone has any ideas on how membership is aquired in Cauldron's Last Laugh. Thanks!

I was just curious if anyone else was planning or did run side treks between the various chapters of Shackled City. I for one am going to run "Mad God's Key" after "Life's Bazaar" and "Three Days to Kill" after "Flood Season."

With "Mad God's Key" I had to alter a few key components as the adventurers would have already had exposure to a master-key situation with Ghelve. Also, the priesthood of Boccob isn't even in the city and the Green Daggers have to have some sort of dynamic with the Last Laugh (this town isn't big enough for TWO guilds!). So here is what I did:

1. Replace the "universal key" magical item with a magical mediallion with the specific prophecy of "opening that which cannot be opened" (translation: something which is magically barred and/or warded). Tygot will be in possession of this rare item but because it has no magical aura surrounding it, he really never discovered its full capabilities.

2. The Green Daggers can stay as is, but really must be nothing more than a gang that has to pay the Last Laugh off to run their petty jobs in the city.

3. Boccob is replaced by Wee Jas. So, in fact, what gets stolen is one of Ike Iverson's personal treasures: a Tome on powerful new theories of Undead Creation.

4. The staging ground for the final chapter will occur in the Haunted Village near Cauldron.

These elements really flush out the rich culture Cauldron has to offer by introducing very important characters early and exposing the party to elements of History: such as what exactly is an abandoned shrine of Wee Jas doing in the middle of this ghost town? I think there is a sidebar somewhere in "Demonskar Legacy" that gives hints on why this village is abandoned and more importantly what the Church of Wee Jas had to do with it (maybe there isn't but I just made that connection). For my campaign, I had the church play a pivotal role in defending the land during the Demon War by raising the dead of enemies/allies to replenish their reserves...it worked up until the creations turned on their masters and seized control of the town. Since then it has been a haven for the walking dead. A cult of Vecna has capitalized on the anonymity this place affords to convert the very shrine that created the undead creatures all those years ago. The showdown should expose the darker side of both religions (Wee Jas and Vecna) as well as provide a great launching point for Ike Iverson as key NPC. Recall also that Skaven (a member of the Ebon Triad) is a worshiper of Vecna...now if only I could figure out a clever way to introduce him as a reoccuring villian or even some sort of link to the next adventure I would be set!:)

After "Flood Season," I wanted to continue with the above by having a tenuous alliance struck between the remaining Alleybashers and the now fragmented cell of Vecna priests (maybe Skaven is part of it if he survived) in order to ensure survival for both groups. Ike Iverson, already angered by the theft of his book could hire the PCs to take care of this problem...sick, I know:) You could even push the envelope by up'ing the reward if they kill the priests of Vecna.