NukeHavoc's page

The Blackrazor Guild encountered the Shoosuva lair within Kerzit's Fane last night, and lo, there was much ranting and raving about the power of these monsters relative to their Challenge Rating. There were two major areas of complaint:

1. Hit Dice relative to CR: The monsters have 18 HD and a CR of 8; I think their initial shock was based on the assumption that HD = CR, but looking at the d20 SRD rules for improving monsters, it looks like undead hit dice are pegged at 4 HD = 1 CR, which would give them a base CR (just based on hit dice) of 4.5. Their subtype is extraplaner, but again, looking at the Improve Monster rules I don't think that makes them outsiders, becuase their type remains undead. That could explain a good chunk of their confusion.

Does that math sound right?

I think most of their shock came when their super-undead-destroying cleric tried -- and failed -- to turn them using a near-perfect roll ... and failed (the monsters counting as HD 22 because of extra turning, and he only affecting creatures of up to HD 21).

2. Creaping Paralysis: This particularly nasty supernatural bite attack seemed overly powerful for a CR 8 creature; it's a fairly unique ability so I'm not sure how it stacks up with other abilities. The ability only ended up affecting one character (everyone else made their saves) so I think their fears were somewhat exaggerated.

Having run the combat, and going from a gut-instinct level, these monsters feel like a CR 10 creature to me, what with their DR, fine assortment of feats, and high hit die. I'm curious to hear what others think.

Ken

I just finished reading through "Salvage Operation", and I'm intending to run it on Friday in my game; it just so happens to fit with where my party is. I am, however, very disappointed with the over-powered, heavy handed, and downright-broken uber-box that holds the treasure that the PCs seek.

The description of the box is as follows:

"The special box is made of a rare form of magically enhanced iron. Resistant to rust and weapon blows, it is also *arcane locked* at caster level 14; anyone who speaks the password ... can open it without difficulty. It still contains the cloak of resistance +5 and three figurines of wonderous power (a bronze griffon, an ebony fly and a marble elephant)...

This box irks me. It's clearly been designed to keep the PCs from opening it, and its done so in such a way that smacks of a DM decree: "You can't open this box because I don't want you to."

Simply having a box with a high hardness rating and the arcane lock would have been sufficient for this (though enterprising PCs would undoubtedly have gotten it open) but instead the writer goes above and beyond normal game mechanics to introduce a near-indestructable box who's mere description would probably have most unscruploulous PCs salivating.

What bugs me most really, is the fact that the design of the box ignores all D&D rules, not even trying to give us actual game stats for it. I know that this sort of thing happens in home campaigns -- heck, I've done it myself -- but I expect more from Dungeon.

In figuring out how to handle this, I'm thinking of statting out the box with a high hardness, and perhaps adding some additional magic protection to it -- perhaps a glyph of warding (or in keeping with the high-level *arcane lock*, maybe a *greater glphy of warding* with a high-level summoning spell) combined with a stern warning *not* to open the box.

To compensate for the increased chance that the PCs will open the box, I'll reduce the treasure in side to something a little more down to earth; maybe a cloak of resistance +3 and one figurine.