NightwalkerTheOnerai's page

I fully agree with other posters who have observed that it should be possible for characters using an adjacent feature for cover, to shoot at characters "in the open" without the adjacent feature granting cover to the target. This feels like a simple flaw in the existing rules which should be addressed with a qualifier or errata.

On the subject of making cover use more dynamic during fights: we've seen several good suggestions here, such as...
1) Teridax's suggestion of making characters who Take Cover become off guard to attacks against which they don't have cover bonuses, thus encouraging attackers to move into a flanking position
2) Increase the damage on Grenades but make them explode at the start of the attacker's next turn, so that the enemy is encouraged to run away from them and break cover in the process.

To build on point #2, it would be trivial to add a qualifier about using the Ready action to "cook" a grenade, priming it on your turn but not throwing it until later in the initiative order so that the enemy has less time to react! Of course, this comes with the risk of being disarmed or disrupted, at which point it blows up at your feet...

Slight tangent:
There have been discussions elsewhere about area weapons and autofire attacks and whether they should be re-written in the form of Strikes which deal splash damage, instead of AoE effects with Reflex saves. This could still work with dynamic cover use if characters who have cover against a source of splash damage, can ignore splash damage or perhaps reduce it by the hardness of their cover. Thus, getting into cover is still a good counter to explosions and autofire, but if you get hit directly despite your increased AC then the cover can't help you.

Agree with pretty much all of Teridax's advice here.
Further, I would specify that starting any rotation with Devise A Stratagem - for free or otherwise - is probably your best bet. If you roll well enough to hit, then great, but if you don't then that's at least two actions you'd have wasted on Aiming and Striking, perhaps even three if it's a weapon you need to reload after each shot.

I would also recommend investing in a skill, tool or other technique you can use during combat in the event that DaS does deliver you advance notice of a dud attack roll. Useful tricks like demoralise or create a diversion could still help you contribute to the team, or alternatively, pack a backup weapon that doesn't require an attack roll such as explosives or an autofire weapon.

This thread is an excellent summary of the issues, both mechanical and in terms of "feel", which I have seen raised so far. I particularly found the issues with the unwieldy trait noticeable and the implementation of scatterguns disappointing, both in terms of mechanics and "feel" during play.

I especially like the suggestion of a reworked kickback trait being used as a way to balance heavy weapons, shotguns and powerful rifles. It would allow them to have a higher base damage, but with the tradeoff of requiring either high strength or a supported firing position to use effectively. This would be a good alternative to the unwieldy trait, and allow Soliders to have some Strike actions with guns that aren't automatically outclassed in effectiveness by the same weapon in the hands of an Operative.

The Starfinder 2E playtest has scatterguns implemented as area weapons, meaning that they cannot be used to make ranged Strike attacks, only as a double-action attack activity to inflict damage against all enemies in a cone. All 3 of the scattergun variants in the playtest are limited to 15ft range and have the unwieldy trait, meaning that they cannot be fired more than once in a turn and cannot be used to make reaction attacks (e.g. with Hair Trigger).

A few guesses as to why they work this way:
A cone effect of damage is an understandable thought when considering how to model buckshot and other spread-fire weaponry. I believe the intent here is to make shotgun-type weapons into an effective response to being crowded by melee-oriented enemies. It is capable of hitting multiple targets close in, and is good in the hands of the Soldier class, who is specifically oriented towards using area effect and automatic weapons. Conversely, its area-attack design is less useful to characters good at making accurate ranged strikes, such as the Operative. I am assuming that the "unwieldy" trait is in place to prevent multiple cone-area attacks being made in one round.

Criticisms of this implementation:
I respectfully disagree with this as a way to model shotgun-type weapons. The 15ft range increment might be reasonable on a weapon which could make ranged Strikes but becomes reliable at mid-range, but area weapons cannot fire beyond the first range increment, making scatterguns bafflingly incapable of hitting a target 20ft away with no cover or concealment. Additionally, the fact that area weapons take two actions to fire, limits the wielder's ability to dash forwards into an optimal firing position, further exacerbating the range issue.
In addition to the mechanical difficulties of this implementation, I also find this implementation of scatterguns to be at odds with player verisimilitude. It doesn't feel believable that shotguns are so slow and difficult to aim that they take two actions to fire, can't harm anything 20ft away, and can't be used for reactions; I would go so far as to say this is almost the opposite of how shotguns are used in actual IRL firefights. I recognise that this point is a matter of opinion, but I do think it is important to keep player expectations in mind when designing the weaponry.

Alternative implementations / fixes:
How instead should scatterguns be implemented? I would welcome some community opinions on this, as I know that in PF2's "Guns & Gears" book there were similar weapons which could make Strikes and dealt splash damage to nearby targets. Whilst this certainly had its problems (friendly fire and self-damage, in particular), I cannot help but feel that some variation on this would be both easier for players to understand and more useful to weapon-using characters in general. What do people think? How would you implement shotgun-type weapons?

I definitely agree with the OP's initial observation: the Operative appears to combine Fighter's stellar accuracy, Rogue's precision damage and Gunslinger's move/shoot/reload action compression, and ends up better than all 3 as a result.

I disagree with the suggestion that making a weaker version of Aim available to everyone as a basic action type, would fix this problem. An untrained / core-rule Aim would create a situation where the only "correct" way to do precise ranged weapon use is to Aim, and whether they're good at it will come down to how closely their other class features can emulate the Operative or otherwise synergise with Aiming. It becomes just an awkward "pretend to be an Operative" action.

I love the Operative in concept and I look forward to seeing how the team adjust it for the final release. My only advisory would be, if it is currently too strong, then the class itself is what needs correcting. A change to the core rules as a compensatory measure to reign in a single class will only cause more problems than it solves.