Maybryn's page

Many of the feats that benefit an alchemist seem to be feats that would also benefit many of the ranged classes ( Ranged Ranger, Archer Bard, etc. ).

Is it advisable to take Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longbow) as my human bonus feat in order to have a backup plan? Aside from the Extra Bombs and Extra Discovery feats, here's the path I'm planning at the moment:

- Point Blank Shot
-- Precise Shot
--- Focused Shot
--- Improved Precise Shot
-- Rapid Shot
- Deadly Aim

Can anyone please convince me that Martial Weapon Proficiency is a bad idea? The only other option I see here is Rapid Reload, and for some reason I'm just not a fan of using a light crossbow when a longbow is available for the same price.

By the way, elves aren't allowed in this campaign, so I can't use that instead.

No clue how this is going to work, as I'm only level 2 at the moment (Rog 2).

The campaign setting is a steampunk post-apocalyptic metropolis with a pre-Upton Sinclair mindset. Think Wild, Wild West meets Big O. We are a three-member party with a Tetori Monk, reminiscent of an early 20th century strong man; a "member of a dying breed" holy crusader seeking to manifest order and righteousness in a world where most small-town preachers are fire-and-brimstone frauds; and a freelance carpetbagging muckraker seeking to disrupt the status quo who ghostwrites the exploits of corporate corruption.

So far, the campaign is equal parts intrigue/investigation and combat, so plenty of opportunity to play the lolskillz role.

Here's my build:

Half-Elf Rogue (4d6 drop build; Lucky Rolls; GM Verified)
Str 11
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 18
Wis 13
Cha 15

Core Racial Traits (2 Favored Classes, Skill Focus {Stealth})
1st-level feat: Weapon Finesse
Traits: Magical Knack, Elven Reflexes

2nd Level Rogue Talent: Firearm Training (firearms are common in this campaign)
Potential 4th level Talent: Combat Trick or Bleeding Attack

At the moment, it looks like my end-game is going to be Rogue 4 / Bard 6 / ArT 9. Since bards don't have any spells that would qualify for SA, I'm debating whether that last level is worth it (unless that transfers to wands, in which case sign me up).

My focus (as you've noticed with the INT) is that I'm the lolskillz of the group, so I'm going 6 levels into Bard to take Versatile performance twice.

Feats I'm looking into for the future include:
Dodge -> Mobility -> Spring Attack
Arcane Strike
Combat Expertise -> Improved Feint | Improved Trip (with a whip) | Improved Disarm (with a whip)
Dazzling Display

Am I going to be the best in combat? Definitely not, considering by the time I'm high enough into ArT to stop sucking, the strong man will have muscles that can flex into the Ethereal plane to grapple ghosts, and the Paladin can brow-beat demons back to the Abyss.

Any ideas on how I can hide my iniquities in combat, or tips on what I can do to improve the build?

I'm not open to the suggestion of not going Arcane Trickster, btw. For one, it fits the story, and two, I'm trying to prove that you can make a viable build for an ArT.

Why did you not raise your Alchemist? In pathfinder the lost levels can simply be removed with a restoration spell, and raise dead is fairly cheap.

The PC specifically requested that he not be brought back, should he die. There's a big plot element that revolved around it.

You should also talk with your GM. It sounds like they were fudging the dice a bit, and not running spells as they should have been. Since when can clerics cast Fly?

Our cleric has the Travel domain, so Fly is a domain spell. Has had it ever since we picked her up in Baldur's Gate.

All right, I seriously hope I'm wrong, but if my notes are telling me anything, the creature that infected our Cleric was a vilkacis. If that's the case, the entire combat was run wrong. Possession for them acts like a barbarian's rage, so no spells, etc., and it only lasts a few hours. Further, while possessed, the creature takes on a much more bestial form, so it would have been much more noticeable.

I seriously hope I'm wrong - I don't want to get into an argument with a good GM about this.

Could you clarify what you mean here? I'm not suggesting you argue with the DM, but a lot of things just seem kind of off. <I also want to point out, I'm fully for story trumping rules, and this might have been the case.>

The malevolence from this creature is much more potent than standard malevolence on a ghost. The GM said that as such, it may act more like an enchantment [compulsion] effect rather than magic jar. I don't have the monster's entry, so I don't know the rules surrounding it.

For one, an 11th(+) level Cleric (Aasimar), with enough Wis to cast 5th level spells, shouldn't have had much of an issue with the Save vs Possession, and certainly not more than once.

No clue on this one. It was never really specified, but I don't feel like opening this can of worms. Or, to quote my GM: "Ya' don't know."

Secondly, prolonged possession should have given everyone a Sense Motive check to notice something was a little off, and any time they would have Channeled Energy in that time should have still hit the Ghost even if they where possessing.

First, if I met with the GM in private, and was asked to play a character under a compulsion effect, other characters would normally get a Sense Motive check only if they explicitly stated they suspected I was being controlled. Otherwise, the interaction skills normally don't apply between PCs. It's too difficult to abstract character knowledge from player knowledge. For this campaign, it's sufficient to say that these rules apply to the GMPC as well. In the GM's defense, we likely never caught on to hints he dropped. We're kind of dense players like that.

Second, she has Selective Channeling

As you mentioned, it is a Ghost variant that lets the Ghost cast the players spells, which is not really possible. It is, but not really.

Even if the Aasimar contracted Lycanthropy, (not possible even through a spell or whatever), A.) they should also have enough Fort to resist, and b.) they don't actually turn into a Lycanthrope until the next full moon, so about 28ish days later.

Like I said, I really don't know the rules behind this specific creature, its special brand of lycanthropy, or malevolence. We'll have to find out, but it's likely a conversion from a 3.5 splat book that may or may not have been broken as all hells.

You mentioned you tossed out a Dimensional Anchor, which means that the <Incorporeal> Ghost (who is on the Material Plane do to Possession). This should have altered the Ghost more than it seemed to.

Minor correction... I cast Dimensional Anchor on the cleric, not the ghost. No clue if or how it also affects the possessing creature. Seems that would be up to the GM's interpretation of the rules.

Well, I just had a discussion with the GM, and he's going to do some research on the lycanthropy effect that this monster yields, as well as other retcon opportunities to possibly undo this TPK. Obviously, all of us probably also need to be okay with the retcon, but we'll see what happens.

It's possible that the possession may have been subject to similar rules as compulsion effects.

I realize this is after-the-fact, but why didn't you teleport to a city, sell your loot, buy other stuff, and teleport back? At your level, the conjuror can easily have 2 teleports for a "shopping day" and can get the whole party (self + 4 others) to a large enough city to sell all the loot. Even if you hadn't ever been to one, you can pick up a scroll of scrying, put it in the book, and scry a good place to teleport to.

I blame myself mostly for not being able to do this. The only city I had a reasonable certainty of selling my goods at was Balur's Gate (It's a FR campaign), but there were spies looking to attack me on-site there, so it was not a safe haven to tarry for long.

Compounding that, we really didn't have any 'rest' time between adventures. Soon as we finished one adventure, we plunged right into the next one, usually after a night's respite at the local inn.

The day after we completed the Lord of the Scarlet tide, we had to go to the Dancing Place (which we got sidetracked by the wererats), and there was no downtime between the wererat debacle and the ghost trying to kill us. It had been going on like that since we had left Sigil (I think we were 7th level then).

Also, divination was an opposition school for me, so I wasn't that good at scrying.

That right there could be a future story hook for a restart — with all the supernatural unrest in the area, I could see certain members of the populace banding together to help the best chance they've got for survival: you guys.

You have no idea...

Before we arrived, there was a keep that had been infested by a wererat group of thugs. (likely where that ghost-thing came from. The GM said it was a group of souls, and the monster name started with a 'v', I think)

Then we ran the Lord of the Scarlet Tide adventure.

Then we found the werewolf cave.

The wyverns that had attacked were the remaining 4 of the dozen that attacked the city.

Then we died.

Actually, no, Aasimar are Native Outsiders. They can't contract Lycanthropy. (That might not be true in PF, I'll double check.)

Much as I'd like to use that as a counter-argument, ghosts normally can't access spells, spell-like, extraordinary, or supernatural abilities of their host creature, but this ghost was some kind of creature with an improved malevolence, so I don't know if its lycanthropy even adhered to the normal rules.

Part of your description has me wondering if perhaps the GM was looking for a way to end the campaign so as to try something new. (What leads me to say that is the seemingly unrelenting tide of attacks without sufficient time to recoup or even put any plans into action.)

To be fair, I'm being terribly biased, and probably being unfair to the GM. It's been a fun campaign, even if we have been frustrated by the lack of gold the villages have and frequently-escaping villains.

According to my inventory, here are some of the items we have stuffing our bags of holding, waiting to be sold:
15 +1 weapons
23 Cloaks of Resistance +1
3 Cloaks of Resistance +2
10 masterwork weapons
gems worth approx. 23k gold
Belt of Incredible Dex +2
Other miscellaneous wondrous items.

Just curious. . . Cleric doesn't have Protection from Evil?

Also, a way around this might be for the whole scene to have been either a nightmare sequence (magical visions of a ill fate to come or maybe some sort of enchantment/illusion to screw with the characters? Or maybe something miraculous happens to raise the characters to continue the fight, (anything from the Crow, to Spawn, to "it's not your time yet", to Romeo & Juliette style you where never actually dead and wake up).

From what the GM told us afterwards, the cleric had been possessed for weeks, but there was little for us to go off of. Her behavior really hadn't changed, so we had no reason to suspect her.

Even so, a protection from evil does grant a new save... if she were willing to cast it on herself. Being possessed, she'd be entitled to a will save to negate the effects. Long story short, I don't think the ghost would be willing to do it.

The GM offered us an alternative. You see, the soul a powerful necromancer was willingly riding along with the conjuror, so a "temporary resurrection" spell could have been cast by him that would have allowed us to make arrangements for a full raise dead. However, that would have meant that our cleric was a wererat (probably turned to LE), our barbarian was possessed, my greatest secret (I'm cavorting with powerful evil creatures) would have been spilled, and we were 15000 gp in the hole (not including the Restoration spell costs). Our party didn't like that idea.

Our next campaign is going to be more of a steampunk setting, a big-o-meets-bladerunner type campaign, so I think we're looking to change the pace up a bit.

My concern is that I might be overprotective of my next character, to the point of even refraining from combat to avoid him or her dying. I want to use this as a learning experience, but not so much that the rest of the party suffers from my lack of involvement.

One of the hardest hitting gaming anomalies to me, especially in a story-driven campaign, is the sudden unexpected TPK. I think it affects both the GM and the players equally: the players have suddenly come to an unsatisfying end to the story of characters they have spend months, possibly years, developing; meanwhile, the GM's plot hooks and adventure plans for the future have effectively been quashed.

I submit to you this story that took place recently in a Pathfinder Forgotten Realms campaign, and then ask for advice. This covers the bulk of the last two sessions:

For reference, our party consisted of:
12th level female half-orc barbarian
12th level male human alchemist (died; replaced by 11th level halfling rogue with Pass for Human or whatever it is that makes them appear like a child. We all thought he was a child.)
11th level female human conjuror
9th level male human urban ranger skirmisher (cohort of conjuror)
??th level female aasimar cleric (GMPC, 11th or 12th)

We had recently been clearing out a werewolf den responsible for attacking the Dancing Place. The head, a powerful necromancer of sorts, managed to escape with his life, so our alchemist used up the rest of his bombs for the day to collapse the cave entrance, in an effort to keep the place from posing an immediate threat to the grove. You see, our half-orc barbarian, whom I'll call a "survivor", was trying to find religion with Selune, and needed to visit the Dancing Place to finally put her soul at peace.

On our way back to the village, however, a group of bloated wyverns attacked, infested with some positive energy swarms. Out of bombs, out of healing from our cleric, no rage left, and low on spells, it was a long battle. The wyverns fell, and the swarms with fast healing kept regenerating. Eventually, they killed the alchemist. We did bring the others down, but he was dead. Back at the village, we earned our reward, and made arrangements for the alchemist's funeral.

Fast forward to the next day, a man who we hired to research the type of undead we saw in the werewolf cave has turned up dead, his former apprentice the prime suspect. We catch the rogue scouring through the suspect's house, and with his help find nothing. That night, however, while strolling alone through town after gathering some additional information about the murder, said rogue is attacked by some powerful undead creature. He escapes with his life by pure luck (he had a hide from undead potion in his backpack), but from the retinue of spells used (slay living, flame strike, etc.), it's obvious that said creature wants the rogue dead.

Being the resourceful group we are, we decide to stage an ambush for the undead the following night. We send the cleric into town to buy hide from undead potions, while I, the conjuror, prepare spells designed to combat undead (as well as I can... I've got a focus in necromancy, so fighting undead aren't really my forte).

Night time comes, and our cleric hasn't showed up. Meanwhile, the rogue gets ambushed again by the undead, forcing us to fight. I drop a dimensional anchor on the creature, hoping to keep it from running away. I then attempt to summon a monster, but it flame strikes me (failed save). It then erects a wall of stone to cut myself, the ranger and barbarian from it and the rogue, but being a conjuror, I have the dimensional steps ability to bring us to the other side... into some animated cobblestones that attack us. Come to find out, the undead is actually our cleric, possessed by some powerful ghost variant. The ghost variant has the ability to utilize all of the possessed creature's abilities, much different from the limitations of magic jar. The undead took to the sky, peppering us with powerful spells. I cast fly on the barbarian, who then takes to the sky to go after the airborn enemy. The cleric then fells me, which the rogue counteracts with a wand of CLW.

While I'm out, the cleric dispels the fly effect on the barbarian, meaning she is again out of reach. I try to cast fly defensively on the rogue (I'm prone and have an animated cobblestone next to me), and fail, so we're out of fly spells now.

Eventually, we reduce the cobblestones to rubble, and I've managed to summon some flying creatures to combat the cleric, who still manages to get some spells off to get her back to full health (including a heal spell). After she's surrounded, the ghost then leaves the cleric's body, turning her into a wererat (some kind of power the ghost has), who then casts silence to prevent further spells. The ghost, in the same action, possesses our barbarian, who fails her will save.

The rogue, in an attempt to salvage the situation, uses a wand of obscurring mist to try and obfuscate our position, but the barbarian has scent as a rage power, so it easily finds us.

Did I mention she also has blind-fight and great cleave?

Three attack rolls and 6 concealment checks later, we were all dead, save for one possessed barbarian who just wanted to set her soul at peace. She's killed what she thought was a child, a conjuror she didn't care much for, and a ranger who she had some respect for. Even worse, she's likely infected with lycanthropy, and will turn into a wererat, assuming the ghost ever gives her back her body.

So that's the story.

We don't know where it all went wrong. We were undergeared - we have been carrying around roughly 55k in gear from various dungeons that we've been unable to sell - but that never stopped us before. The GM said it was a CR 14 encounter - according to the rules, our APL was 10 (average is 11, but three party members, so subtract 1), so it was above "epic" encounter level for us.

Dejected, we decided to start a new campaign, but the investment I make in creating a new character is pretty involved. I generally like to write up a 'bio' for my characters, containing about 3 pages of information regarding personality quirks, likes, dislikes, an story. Possibly even an advancement plan.

After an abrupt end like the one above, I don't have as much motivation.

My question to you is what do you do to bounce back from a TPK to try and enjoy the new campaign?

We have an evil PC in our campaign pursuing the Agent of the Grave PrC from the Broken Moon adventure path, and wanted clarification on the Secrets of Death feature.

Here's the ability for reference:

The question is that, if a spell has multiple levels, which level would a character use for determining if they can cast the spell.

As an example, a wizard who gains this feature can select Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass for her spell list. However, the spell is listed as Cleric 8 / Witch 9, so would the character treat this spell as an 8th or 9th level spell?

Does your party have a Druid? Have him wild shape and pull the cart.

Does your party have a Barbarian? Have him be himself and pull the cart.

Strength-focused Fighter? Summoner w/ strength-focused eidolon? Ditto.

Have them pick up the Endurance feat so they get tired out less and use Muleback Cords or Ant Haul to increase their carrying (in this case pulling) capacity. There you go! You have something to pull your cart that levels up with you and can defend itself. And no more need to buy horses.

Or you could invest in a construct to be your beast of burden.

I think I'll just work with the GM on creating a self-propelled cart as a Wondrous item. The pieces are there... flying carpets, floating disks, etc.

We'll just see how hard it is to transmute non-moving cart into moving cart.

Also if no one in your party has done so yet, craft wondrous items feat is very helpful and you can make a haversack for a small amount of money for each party member. Alternately just find a town with a crafting wizard and commission a few of them to be made. You will have to hang out for a week or so, but if you are unable to make them or find them normally that will work.

I do have CWI, so I might have to invest some time and money into it. The biggest problem is that the GM rushes us from one adventure to the next, so we hardly have any time to catch our breath, game-wise, between adventures. I also want to establish a base of operations (there's a frickin' abandoned mages tower not a day's journey north of here that we personally cleared out), but the rest of the party complains that we move around too much for it to be of any use.

TBH if I was running an ambush the opponents would attempt to kill the humanoids etc so they could steal ALL YOUR gear while it WAS STILL IN THE WAGON....discuss this idea with your GM as I think he's using the horse deaths as his 'sick little jollies'. If he is still unreasonable, discuss options away from the table without GM knowledge with the other players. Options could include:

I hope you get this resolved, but like i said, MY bandits attacking MY players wouldn't go for the horses...;D

It's generally not the sentient humanoids attacking the horses, but rather predators or evil, animated plants with little to no intelligence. They just see a tasty or vulnerable target, and attack it. Since they aren't thinking tactics or using the horses to carry loot, it's not as easy as a GM's grudge.

I'm actually surprised that there is some pushback against the classics.

f you absolutely must have mundane means of pulling a cart, then consider having a couple PCs take the leadership feat for cohorts that would be more survivable but still able to pull a wagon. Talk to your dm about possibly having something like trained Rhinoceri for cohorts (or wooly rhinos) that can pull the wagons. These would be considerably more survivable (and even an asset in combat) then typical pack animals.

I thought of perhaps using a hardier beast of burden, or even perhaps a conjured one, but it seems as though there are no rules for a Mount or other spell to act as a beast of burden, only as a literal mount. You might be onto something about getting a trained creature. Nothing in the rules say that it has to be a cohort (especially since I already have a cohort, and it really doesn't fit the other characters to take the leadership feat).

Use the Mount spell, more powerful draft creatures (griffons, maybe?), accept that you're going to go through a *lot* of horses, or use magic solutions (bags of holding, handy haversacks, portable holes, teleport, overland flight) as they become available.

Teleport's out, since there are two limitations: 1) we generally don't know where we're heading, and 2) there are more of us than the spell's allowance. The same goes with the mount spell and overland flight: too many users for it to be feasible.

Right now, bag space is at a premium as well. At 10th level, we have a single bag of holding (Type I) and a handy haversack. Bad rolls and low gold have made it difficult to find any more.

As far as more powerful draft creatures, that was something I was considering... like a pachyderm, or perhaps another creature with a tougher hide than the standard horse.

This brings to mind another question: where are the rules on purchasing extraplanar horses, such as Fiendish horses or Resolute horses?

According to the search query, there are about 21k entries for the word 'horse' in the forums.

This question simply revolves around increasing the survival rate of horses in combat.

Here's the setup: We have a party of 3 PCs, a GMPC, a PC's cohort and 2 hirelings. To carry around all our stuff (trying to stay realistic to some degree), we have a wagon that has our goods and other stuff. After all, it doesn't make sense to have thousands of gold on our persons, right? The wagon, itself, is drawn by two light, combat-trained horses.

So what does the enemy do whenever they ambush us on the road?

This is little more than an annoyance and slight drain on the cleric's resources for now, but when the horses start dying because of the massive damage the increasingly difficult monsters inflict, it's going to leave us stranded for periods of time whenever one of these neigh-sayers fall.

I've thought of a couple of ways around it:

• Barding
  
• Investing in heavy horses
  
• Preparing animate dead
  

However, it seems that none of these would be a long-term solution. Barding is not very useful at 10th level, since a horse in breastplate has an AC of 17; if you can't hit an AC 17 at 10th level, go back to your bad guy lair and get laughed at by your kobold underlings until you die of shame. A heavy horse is a similar bandaid, only slightly extending the time until they can be one-shotted beyond repair. Finally, the whole 'having undead horses pulling our cart' is a bit unsavory for the rest of the party on moral grounds; personally, my character has appearances to keep up, so animating horses seems like a big loser all around.

We're looking for ideas of how to transport so many people and gear from town to town, despite the fact that the areas are particularly dangerous of late.

I'm willing to examine any and all available ideas, but I'd like to rely on magic as little as possible.

At level 9 you should be able to cast "greater invisibility" which is a great spell for staying out of trouble.

Actually, given the spells I generally cast are monster summoning / buff / battlefield control, Vanish and Invisibility work just fine in most scenarios... except for the battles when the stupid wizard uses Glitterdust on me.

OK, I'm going to actually offer some direct advice here instead of the general directional advice I originally offered. Of course that just makes it much more likely that I'll be accused of trying to beat you with a stick if you don't listen to me, but whatever. You can do what you like, this is just random advice from a stranger on the internet, and I assume you and everyone else knows what that is generally worth.

Look hard at your battle tactics and your utilization of existing spells and abilities. I've played wizards, sorcerers and other vulnerable spellcasters in combat and in my opinion (let me repeat that since it doesn't seem to always be understood that what I am doing is, in fact, offering my opinion, not some diabolical divine imperative that you must follow or else...) in my opinion a wizard who is failing reflex saves should be looking more at why he is having to make reflex saves than at how to improve his chances to be successful with...

I certainly agree that we need to look hard at the battle tactics as well. I don't want to make reflex saves any more than necessary. I think my biggest challenge is finding out ways to cast battle-altering spells without becoming the most viable target, which seems to be my downfall. In the situations where I've died, it was because of my attempts to position others on the battlefield. This was like when I tried to save the alchemist from BBEG, or when I used my teleport ability to get my urban ranger closer for melee combat.

I know more than anyone else on this board that I will not make it to 11th level if I don't make some significant changes to my battle tactics.

You can also just plain summon lillends and succubi w/ summon monster 6. Lillend is far and away my favorite summon as a conjurer. :)

I wish I could greentext so I could do the following:

Just want to point that by the time you are 11th level and reach your "pay off", if you had been a wizard you could be binding lillends, succubi, efreeti, and even rakshasa to be your party face, all of which I am sure would have skill modifiers significantly higher than your wiz 9/rogue 2, and sounds more in line with a conjurer, anyway.

ps: Why isnt your wizard under greater invisibility and teleporting away from any hazards? Reflex saves... pshaw!

I think you misunderstood: I'm going full wizard, making magic items to suit my devious needs and taking Cosmopolitan as my 11th level feat.

My GM is rather evil, and my IRL Wisdom is pretty low (another player once called me the "dumbest smart person" he knew), so I'm afraid of using Planar Binding of any sort with regard to the backlash I would receive from him. Better to rely on my character's wits and the dice rolls than my own.

This is one of those situations if I was the GM I would want to have a detailed discussion with the player about what problem the player was trying to solve. Taking a level in a different class for a full caster is a pretty drastic decision, essentially delaying their access to higher level spells by a full level for the rest of their career. This gets more and more impactful the higher level you go.

Between bard and rogue, I would say bard seems to be more consistent with your background and motivations as you've presented them here.

The two problems I'm trying to solve are my vulnerability to reflex-based spells and my need for moar skillz. The latter I believe I can resolve with the Cosmopolitan feat, and it looks like I'd be better off solving the former with magic items (belt of dexterity, hand of glory, ring of evasion) rather than with class levels.

I think my path is now clear. Assuming I live to 11th level, I might actually be a diplomatic force to be reckoned with.

I hadn't seen that.

That makes taking CWI all the more important :D

CWI is already on my feats, along with CMA&A. :)

Please note that I never said you had not given advice, I simply disagreed with your advice and said why. This is also advice to the OP, because I had strong feelings on it. You don't have to agree with it (obviously you wont), but saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is not giving advice or is somehow attacking you personally is not a way to debate (despite all the BS going on in D.C. trying to prove the contrary).

Quite the contrary for me, actually. I'm looking at all of the aspects of this, and both yours and brassbabboon's inputs are relevant to my question.

brassbabboon:

We can certainly investigate my character's background as well, if you've the time:

The first death was actually my previous character, a Transmuter (more specifically, the Enhancement archetype). It was a combat with a wizard, his druid companion, some shadows, and a mob of fanatic commoners. It went horribly awry on all facets: shadows ganged up on the cleric, who was brought prone, the alchemist went into melee with BBEG and was knocked unconscious (then grabbed by the flying BBEG), I used telekinesis to grab the alchemist, but a Will'o'wisp attacked me, caused me to lose concentration, and drop the alchemist 60' to his death atop a peasant under control of the BBEG. The BBEG, enraged at the death of the alchemist, fired a near-point-blank cone of cold on me and the Will'o'wisp. I failed my reflex save and died. Only one who made it out alive was the barbarian. BBEG raised the alchemist later (don't ask why, the character was willing for some reason).

For reasons I'll not disclose, I decided it was time to move onto a new character, who is a LE noble in exile because her aunt used subterfuge to steal her father's right to succession from him. She's journeying to build her own network of allies to confront her aunt, and happened across the barbarian in hiding because she was searching for the alchemist. Revenge is her primary motivation, so she's willing to go to any lengths to gain enough power to overcome her aunt's growing network of spies and assassins.

However, we did not have a proper healer in the three combat sessions that followed. In the first combat, I was hit by a cone of cold and a fireball in back-to-back rounds. I failed my reflex save on both, which brought me to -20 hp (my character has 65 hit points and 14 CON). The GM called a mulligan on this one and said I was at -13 and stable.

The second combat session took a few hits out of me, but I was still doing fine thanks to some summoned monsters and a well-timed Enervation.

In the next combat, a swarm, however, found me rather tasty. Two times, it moved towards me, and both times caused me to get nauseated. It wasn't the swarm that killed me, however... it was the falling damage when it brought me into dying while I was 40 feet up.

As such, I've only lost 10k gp, which happened when my butler/urban ranger hawked one of my magic items - without the party's consent - to get me raised and restored.

It fits the character's personality to be paranoid (sense motive) and overbearing (intimidate), so that's the primary purpose of looking into gaining these skills. Upon retrospect, I see that a bard is superior to a rogue because of this. Traits won't work because I've already got faith and social traits, but Cosmopolitan matches it perfectly. Also, given that her father and brother both are in the Harpers (it was in my background well before this revelation of "crap I need intimidate and sense motive"), a dip into bard isn't terribly far-fetched.

What, exactly, are you looking for advice on Maybryn? Are you looking for advice on how to be an effective party face? Or how to make more skills class skills/get higher skill bonuses? Or are you looking on how to have higher reflex saves? Or are you just looking for people to tell you that taking levels of rogue sounds like an awesome idea?

I'm just looking for a different set of eyes on this.

There are, from the responses, a number of ways to gain access to skill bonuses without having to rely explicitly on taking levels of rogue. Many of these options also mitigate my fear of reflex saves.

These are my two goals: improve reflex saves, and gain access to skills that help optimize my role as the face of the party (Sense Motive and Intimidate, primarily).

I've already taken Leadership, and I have an Urban Ranger cohort (who acts as a trapfinder and provides potshots and cover fire).

I agree I think you would get more out of a dip in bard than rogue. Not to mention Bards get will and ref as good saves.

Bard was going to be my second option, but what archetype would I take? Demagogue or Magician seem like the two obvious choices for me.

Take Additional Traits to get the class skills you desire.

Or, take Craft Wondrous Item to make items that give you boosts to your social skills. An item that gives +10 to a skill costs 5000 gp to make. One that gives +10 to two skills is 12500 gp. That really isn't much at your level, and you can use CWI to do other cool stuff and make your money go double.

Like I said before, our characters are rather undergeared. My current wealth at 9th level stands at about 20k, including gear.

Alright well I've got a few suggestions to make. A level or two of rogue isn't a horrible thing but as everyone else has mentioned you've got other options when it comes to grabbing some skill points. The feat Cosmopolitan is also good for grabbing class skills.

** spoiler omitted **

Lightning Reflexes is an option for boosting your reflex saving throw and couples well with a ring of evasion which you should be getting around the level to start affording depending on how your GM does wealth.

If you've got some time, using regular Restoration instead of the greater version will save you 3k on those negative levels. Your also getting to the point where you really should have a clone made for you. It runs about 2700 and takes 2d4 months to grow of course, but it's a good investment if you tend to die often.

I had totally forgotten about the Cosmopolitan feat. We're playing in Forgotten Realms, and my character is from Waterdeep, so that would fit.

Due to some party decisions in the past, as well as some mistakes on the GM's side, however, our gear has been relatively underpowered. I'd like a ring of evasion, but unless I get a Hand of Glory first, my options are quite limited from a story perspective (my two current rings are of great importance to me).

I am playing a wizard you took 1 level in rogue and I DO NOT REGRET IT!

The skills are lovely and really help the wizard to know things not just use magic. I evev used the sneak attack once which really suprised the brigand who felt he didn't need to worry about the silly guy in robes flanking him. Admittedly that was a lucky roll, but fun. I say go for it. You moght want to consider only one level though unless you really want evasion which is a very nice benefit. Mind you if you go two levels you also get a rogue talent many of which work well with wizards. If youi do go 2 levels though try to talk any other primary casters in the party to dip into something as well. That way the relative power levels within the party stay stable. If fact it would be funny if you all took a level in something else. A kind of vacation.

Short version. Taking levels in anything other than your...

That's another interesting point. I know it's not optimal to multiclass, but it does help flesh out a character beyond the normal boundaries.

I'm not talking about the point where I want to go full Arcane Trickster, either.

Also, I am hearing about the option of using traits to make up for it. I've already used my Faith and Social traits up, so I'd be hard pressed to find a Sense Motive or Intimidate trait. Enchantment is an opposition school, so any social interaction skills would likely be done manually anyways.

If you're just looking to boost your skills, I'd highly suggest using feats to do that, not class levels. Addition Traits should net you two skills as class skills if you select wisely, with an additional +1, for a net of +4 on those two skills. There's always Skill focus and the various +2/+2 feats, as well.

Use all those spells you never use for things that boost your skills, Owl's Wisdom, Eagle's Splendor, etc. Buy various masterwork tools for each of your skills to give them an extra +2.

Heck, you're a conjurer. In a few levels you could just summon someone to do your talking for you, or invest in a cohort. Lots of ideas are better than taking a level in rogue

Don't wanna sound like I'm discounting everything people say, because I appreciate the input on this. I just want to thoroughly explore the good, bad, and ugly.

As such, I'll add a new piece of information to this equation: I've died 3 times in the past 3 sessions. Two of them were due to failed reflex saves. Given the cost of greater restoration and raise dead, that's cost the party 10,000 gp a pop.

Magical Knack only helps with variables dependant on caster level, but does nothing for spell progression. FYI

I'm well aware of that. Magical knack helps me keep up with beating SR and effects only. At the same time, I haven't run into a situation where I end up using all of my spells in a single day anyways. I'm dubious on how much 2 lost levels would really set me back.

As far as whether or not to worry about achieving your capstone ability as a conjurer, how likely is the campaign to last to 20th level and how long are you likely to play at that level? If you think they will ultimately not be factors in play, then don't consider them as arguments against multiclassing.

We may go into epic levels, if Paizo has published rules for it at that time. The campaign is expected to end around the mid-20s or so, so I may get the capstone ability yet.

Just buy a royal outfit or even a hat of disguise if you want to be a fop.

Absolutely no reason to go and shoot yourself in the foot by loosing levels in wizard and permanently delaying your spell progression.

There is an additional trait called "Magical Knack" that keeps my caster level at the top notch.

Another benefit to dipping into rogue would be evasion, if I took two levels. The bane of every wizard's existence is a Reflex save, and the high bonus with this ability almost negates any danger with that.

We've been playing through a Pathfinder campaign for some time in the Forgotten Realms setting. Our group consists of a glass cannon Alchemist, a half-orc barbarian, a cleric NPC, myself (conjuror), and my cohort (an urban ranger).

My stats are as follows:
Str 6
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 20 (22)
Wis 14
Cha 12

My opposition schools are divination and enchantment, and my arcane bond is a cat familiar.

I've taken the traits Ease of Faith and Fast Talker to give a boost to Diplomacy and Bluff skills, but our party is still lacking in the fop of the group, as it were. Because I'm the only one with high ranks in Diplomacy, I've more or less taken on that role for us, but I could be better at it.

I'm about to hit 10th level, and wanted to weigh the benefits and drawbacks of dipping a level or two into Rogue for the skills. The problem is, I don't care about sneak attacks; if the barbarian does her job right, I'm never close enough to deal them. To be honest, I don't care about trapfinding, either. My urban ranger takes care of traps just fine.

There are no builds of rogue that forgo the sneak attacks for some other ability, but trapfinding replacements are in abundance.

Near as I can tell, there are a couple drawbacks to this: For one, I won't reach my capstone ability in Conjuror, and I'll forgo a wizard feat at 20th level. Also, I would be giving up spellcasting prowess (both caster level and spells) at a time when our party might need it in combat.

Benefits, however, are in abundance: several skills I've pumped ranks into suddenly become class skills, including Sense Motive, Perception, and Stealth, and I gain an additional 5 skill points over what a wizard would gain instead (accounting for the favored class thingy).

tl;dr What would you do if your group had no fop, and you were the only one willing to make a power sacrifice to pick up that role?

d20pfsrd wrote:

Magic Item Creation

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

Blueluck, could you post the rule. As I read them the craft rules are

1- You Must have any Craft item feats
2- You Must have the spell if it is a spell-trigger or spell-completion item
3- You Must have appropriate materials or gp

All other "prerequisites" "cost" a +5 to the spellcraft roll if they are missing. That's how I interpret it. Is there another section/Errata/FAQ that expands on this?

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

That's what I thought. Thanks for backing me up.

For the craft rod feat, must the caster have access to the appropriate metamagic feat to create a metamagic rod?

I'm currently interpreting the rules to say that a wizard can create a rod for a metamagic feat to which he does not have access, but the DC is increased by 5 because he is missing one of the prerequisites. Am I interpreting that correctly?

My group of adventurers (4 5th-level adventurers) have been arrested regarding the death of a small gang. While authorities attempt to sort out the circumstances leading to the death of the gang, our adventurers have been put to a special "Trial By Steel."

I decided to use a random dungeon creator online, and came back with an impressive dungeon that suits my needs perfectly, with a little modification. Inside of this dungeon is five rooms and three encounters.

Interestingly enough, the random dungeon generator suggested a young adult blue dragon (CR 12) for a group of level 5 adventurers. In another room down the hall, a group of 16 orc warriors populate what I've determined to be the room guarding the waystone out of the Trial by Steel. The orcs aren't aware of the dragon's presence, but the dragon may be aware of the orcs.

Naturally, I don't expect the group of level 5 adventurers to take down a CR 12 monster, no matter how generous I've been with gear and loot. However, I'm thinking that it would be possible to lure the orcs away from the spot they're guarding toward the dragon's lair. With a group of 16 unwitting orcs fighting alongside our adventurers, trading blows with a dragon, the adventurers may survive the encounter. Naturally, the orcs will want to take out the adventurers afterwards, and after a battle with a dragon can seriously drain a party's daily resources. The orcs may still be a challenge.

Has anyone else had experience with three-way encounters before? How did they turn out? How did your players react?

In a quick reading of the rules, yes, BUT, to PUSH a hobgoblin more than 5 feet, you have to move with him... (and, in my interpetation of the rules, you HAVE to move with him even if the distance its 5' only, it seems that you are reading bullrush like "awesome blow", and its more "pushing" than "bating" your enemies with your shield :P)

Not so with shield slam feat: "You may choose to move with your target if you are able to take a 5-foot step or to spend an action to move this turn." (emphasis mine)

However, he is kind of a one-trick pony. He wouldn't fare well against a number of spread-out weak creatures, creatures with touch attacks, creatures immune to bull rushes (incorporeal undead, for one), areas of magical darkness, spellcasters with concealment spells, Will saves, Reflex saves (actually, he'd be about half-and-half on those), mounted combat, social situations, anyone up in a tree... from the DM's perspective, I would love to see this exploit in action, but don't expect me to bend my campaigns to make him useful every encounter any more than I would throw nothing but evil guys into the path of a Paladin. Suggestions for beyond 11th level: Cleave & Great Cleave (if you really feel the need to hog initiative), ranged attack feats (you've got the Dex for it... use it) and Combat Reflexes.

Grond carries a strong point, but let's assume I've purchased a blank, 100-page spellbook from the market back when I was still just a rogue. I'm a self-study, but the roleplaying XP from getting official (albeit brief) training from a witch was enough to tip me to 3rd level. If we want to follow the RAW, it should take me 1 hour for each first level spell and 30 minutes for the cantrips. With a 20 Intelligence, that's 8 first level spells, or 8 hours, plus 8 hours for 16 cantrips (Illusion and Necromancy are prohibited schools, so I don't automatically have those cantrips). Assuming I spend 16 hours writing the spells, I should be able to do so for free (italic emphasis added):

Materials and costs: The cost for writing a new spell into a spellbook depends on the level of the spell, as noted on the following table. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for spells he gains for free at each new level.

Upon transcribing that, I noticed that I don't even have to take the time to scribe the spells, so I guess it was just part of my training. Awesome.

So was the first familiar I summoned also "part of the training"? I would rather use Fergie's suggestion and make it story-driven, rather than a forgotten footnote.

There is an Order of the Stick strip that addresses this topic very well.

Found it: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0126.html

So it's really up to the DM to determine how the items (spellbook, familiar, and spells) were acquired, so long as the players have effectively roleplayed the scenario.

The rogue in our group had been reading arcane books and introductory manuals since day one of the campaign, and finally received formal training at the hands of a hedge witch outside the Friendly Arm Inn. So it would seem that this "formal training" probably involved summoning a familiar and writing spells into a spellbook. Is that a reasonable assumption?

So let's say you have a mischevious rogue in your group who decides to dabble a bit in the arcane arts on the path to become an arcane trickster. Said rogue is 2nd level. At 3rd level, rogue becomes Rogue 2 / Transmuter 1. The rules are fairly clear on class features: Scribe Scroll, cantrips, spells per day, saves, (crappy) BAB, etc. RAW does not seem to address, however, two items of note: the arcane bond and the spellbook.

I'll grant you, said roguemuter would have the option to form an arcane bond to either an item or a familiar, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she instantly has a familiar, or must pay the costs for a new familiar ritual.

Of more pressing issue is this: would a multiclass rogue / wizard's spellbook have all cantrips and 3 + INT modifier 1st level spells at no cost? RAW doesn't seem to specify either way...

Clarification or consensus would be appreciated.

Thanks, feel free to yoink it. I'd add that, for poisons, as you have it above, that you can make up to 10 doses at a time with no increase in DC, only an increase in cost of materials (just as easy to make a flask of poison as it is a vial, if you have enough components).

That makes sense. I'll put it into consideration.

I certainly can agree with that for non-alchemical items.

Poisons are just an odd duck when it comes to creation, however. Even in the real world, crafting poisons never takes more than a couple of weeks, because they are made of proteins that can break down over time, and therefore lose potency. On top of that, a crafter should never have to focus on a single dose of poison at a time. In reality, drow poison and tears of death would take about the same amount of time to create, although the level of knowledge needed to craft the former pales in comparison to the latter.

Poisons: Poisons are concocted from various proteins in a delicate balance, and must be crafted in haste to preserve their potency. When crafting poisons, automatically add 10 to the DC to craft the poison. Acquiring the ingredients for poisons is both expensive and time-consuming, and requires a minimum of one week (or tenday in my campaign) to gather the ingredients. The process of brewing a poison then takes one additional week, regardless of the price of the poison. At the end of the week, make a single Craft (Alchemy) check at a DC equal to the poison's Fortitude save + 10. Success yields one dose of the poison. Failure means the materials are ruined, and the crafter must purchase new ingredients. If the crafter rolls a natural 1, the crafter accidentally exposes himself to the poison and must save normally. The crafter may concurrently work on additonal doses of poison equal to his intelligence bonus, if positive.

Nice work on the rare ingredient items, by the way. I like it better than my idea.

A friend came up with a REAL issue. Try using your rules and making a simple item, let's say a Buckler. See how it goes.

I did see that. Normal Craft time is 13 days. RAW expedited crafting is (1500 cp / (21 * 21)) = 4 days (plus 16 days for masterwork). Using the above exception, assuming 20 ranks in Craft (Armor), taking 10, and expediting as per RAW, the craft time would be (1500 cp / (21 * 30 * 20)) = 58 minutes (assuming an 8-hour work day). Meaning he could crank out 8 bucklers in a day. Not only is that unrealistic, it does indeed break the game. If we only use the first rule, the same character could make a single buckler in 2 days. Masterwork component still takes 16 days.

I guess there needs to be a minimum threshold for which to apply to these circumstances. Minimum construction time 1 day.

I still think 42 days is a lot of time for a freakin' poison. I bet Snape would've had it ready in a couple days...

If anyone wants a project....

Looking through the bestiary (Which absolutely rocks!) I came across something that doesn't fit with my myth view.

The Genie, Djinn is CR5!. I know it gives a little blurb for noble Djinn but I don't think it is expansive enough.

I can accept the CR5 for the lowest Djinn.

I'd love to see stats and improvements on 2 or more Djinn.

sort of:

CR5 - Djinn in Service
Cr8 - Djinn Captains
Cr12-15 - Djinn Nobles.

It's not earth shaking, but it would be appreciated.

Sigurd

Since we're on the topic of homebrew mosnters, just consider making a progression table for noble djinns a la Savage Species. Put the highest level powers and stat boosts at the highest levels. From there, you can pretty much create a Djinn at any level. Just be sure to playtest them before PC encounters.