Allustan

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Goblin Squad Member. Organized Play Member. 21 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.




So in a new campaign, we have a player at our table who is building a 6th level character with 5 levels in Brawler, and a 1 level dip in the Master of Many Styles monk archetype. He was interested in using the Unchained Monk as the base for the archetype - a move which we thought was perfectly legal in the RAW since the archetype doesn't replace any class features which the Unchained Monk does not have (although Flurry has been simplified). We have since found the bit in the Advanced Class Guide that explicitly says that the Unchained Monk is not allowed to be used with any previously published archetypes (unlike other Unchained classes).

From what we can tell, it's not an unreasonable house rule to allow the use of the MoMS with the UC Monk in this build. If the character were to be strictly progressing as a MoMS, the offensive bonuses of the UC Monk might be too much to allow. As it stands, the player is only taking a 1 level dip at 3rd level (in order to take Dragon Style as the 3rd level feat and Dragon Ferocity as the MoMS bonus feat), and the only trade-off is that the character will have significantly weaker saves, and would keep the BaB progression that they would otherwise have as a 6th level Brawler. The BaB progression of the character is obviously important since the character will qualify for more combat feats at lower levels (especially relevant because of Martial Flexibility). While that's a lot more attractive than being at a slightly lower BaB and significantly higher saves, it doesn't seem broken or unreasonable to us.

TL;DR - The RAW are against mixing MoMS and UC Monk, but as a 1 lvl dip in a Brawler build it seems reasonable. Is there any compelling reason why it's broken/ought not be allowed?


I'm working on a Brawler build, and for several reasons, I'm taking a 1 level dip into the Master of Many Styles Monk Archetype. I've got it all figured out except where the AC bonus and Unarmed Damage are concerned. The AC bonus of the Brawler and Monk are identical, save for the fact that the Monk also adds her Wisdom to her AC, and the Brawler may still wear light armor. The class features have the same name, and are both modified in the same way by a Monk's Robe wondrous item. It's the same story with the Unarmed Damage.

My question is this: would the AC bonus from each class "stack" as separate class features with the same name, or is it reasonable to combine them like sneak attack damage from levels of both rogue and ninja? What would "stacking" the unarmed damage from 4 levels of Brawler and 4 levels of Monk even look like?

It seems that if you wanted your monk levels to count toward the AC bonus total (and retain your wisdom bonus to AC), you would have to refrain from wearing armor in spite of also being a brawler. With unarmed damage it especially seems like monk levels ought to be treated as brawler levels (and vice versa) for the purposes of advancing this ability. In other words a Character with 4 Brawler and 4 Monk levels seems like it should have an unarmed damage of 1d10 instead of 1d8 (or *shudder* 2d8). I'd also think that a character that has 3 Brawler and 1 Monk level ought to be at a +1 AC bonus.

It's definitely not in the RAW, but seeing as this is a new class I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that this is what the RAI might look like. If anyone has anything from Paizo staff on this issue, I'd deeply appreciate it.


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Wandering Sword

Wandering swords are often Samurai who have learned the way of the sword through an apprenticeship rather than from a larger organization. Rather than devoting themselves to the protection of a single state or settlement, they travel across the land searching for a worthy cause - whether it is gold, glory, or vengeance.

The Wandering Sword is an archetype for the Samurai alternate class.

Armor and Shield proficiency

Wandering swords tend to travel light and walk a fine line between honed warrior and ascetic. They are not proficient with any armor or shields.

Flexible Allegiance (Ex)

This functions as the Samurai class ability Order except in the following ways: a Wandering Sword must select Ronin/Knight Errant as his order. Beginning at 4th level, if a Wandering Sword is working with another character with the Order class feature towards a common goal (GM's discretion), he may expend one of his uses of the Challenge ability in order to gain the order abilities of their ally. This replaces the Wandering Sword's own order abilities. This change lasts until the Wandering Sword rests and regains the daily uses of his Challenge ability (at which time he may once again expend one use to change his abilities as long as he is still working on a common goal with his ally).

This ability modifies the Samurai's Order ability.

Weapon Expertise (Ex)

A Wandering Sword must select a melee weapon (the Katana, Naginata, or Wakizashi) for the bonuses of this class ability.
This modifies the Weapon Expertise Samurai class ability.

AC Bonus (Ex)

This ability functions the same way as the Monk class ability of the same name. A Wandering Sword also loses this AC bonus for 24 hours if he breaks one of his order's edicts, including those from an order which he is borrowing abilities from.

Beginning at 10th level, a Wandering Sword becomes proficient with light armor, but the max dex penalty applies against this AC bonus as well as his dexterity bonus (tthe total of both bonuses added together).
Ability replaces the Samurai's Mount ability.

Exploit Weakness (Ex)

At 4th level, a Wandering Sword uses his keen senses to strike with precision as well as to avoid being touched by dangerous foes. This ability functions as the Martial Artist (Monk) archetype ability.
This replaces the Mounted Archer Samurai ability.

Advanced Swordplay (Ex)

at 5th level, whenever he gains a feat or bonus feat, a Wandering Sword may select the Deflect Arrows, Crane Style, Crane Wing, or Crane Riposte feat, even if he does not qualify for them (but he must slect Crane Style before Crane Wing, and Crane Wing before Crane Riposte). He may only gain the benefits of these feats when he is weilding the weapon he selected for Weapon Expertise (although he need not have an empty hand as described in Deflect Arrows or Crane Wing so long as he is only weilding his selected weapon).
This ability replaces the Banner class ability.

Fatal Mistake (Ex)

At 15th level, a Wandering Sword who successfully uses Exploit Weakness on an opponent to bypass their DR may ready an action to attack the next creature who makes a melee attack roll against him. For the purposes of this attack, the Wandering Sword's weapon is treated as having the Vorpal magic weapon quality. This also applies to attacks of opportunity made with the Crane Riposte feat as long as the Wandering Sword made a successful Exploit Weakness attempt against that opponent on his last turn. If his weapon already has the Vorpal quality, he instead gains a +4 bonus to confirm the critical.

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So, interesting? Balanced? Easily broken? Unclear? What do you guys think?

My inspiration comes from 7 Samurai, Samurai Jack, Jin from Samurai Champloo, and a bit of real Kendo techniques.


So I have a question involving how to resolve using certain combat maneuvers as readied action.

Let's say we have Brainy the Magus vs Brawny the Barbarian. Brainy sees Brawny within walking distance. He knows Brawny has it out for him, and he's all pumped up and ragey. A scuffle is imminent. Brainy is also all out of spells, and has few options. So, Brainy readies an action so that if Brawny attacks him he is going to instead try to disarm Brawny. Of course, Brawny does the sensible Barbarian thing and charges the heck out of Brainy's face.

My question is this: Brawny reaches Brainy and tries to cleave him in twain. That triggers Brainy's prepared action to instead swing his sword at Brawny's big ol' axe in an attempt to disarm him.

Brainy doesn't have improved disarm, so a disarm attempt (even a readied one) normally provokes an AoO. However, the action that triggered his disarm is an attack, meaning that he is trying to disarm Brawny while he is already attacking.

If Brawny DOES get an AoO (which is the strictest as-written interpretation of the rules), that means that what he's effectively doing is attacking, and since Brainy is trying to whack his weapon, he gets to use that weapon to whack Brainy BEFORE the attack he was initially trying to make. He is attacking before he's attacking, which is some messed-up quantum jibba-jabba. Furthermore, since Brainy's attack is readied against an attack, the attack of opportunity itself would seem to trigger the readied action, causing an infinite regress. Even if we want to say that the readied action happens before the attack of the charge, it still doesn't quite seem quite right that Brawny can take an Attack of Opportunity mid-charge (or run in, stop, make an oppotunistic attack, then finish the attack he was making to begin with).

Does it seem more fair to resolve such situations as Brawny getting two attacks on a charge (his normal one, and the AoO), or does it make sense that given the nature of the readied action and the triggering conditions that the AoO that would otherwise be there is ignored? Is there maybe a third option that would better fit the situation?


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What if Aroden DID usher in a new golden age for humanity?

What if he PURPOSEFULLY defied Pharasma's prophecy in order to free the world (and mankind) from fate?

What if he sacrificed himself and his godhood in order to give mankind that which they had never been given since the time they were ruled by the aboleths - the power to forge their own destiny?

Goblin Squad Member

I think this is something that came up in the wishlist thread. There's a concern that like in WoW, when someone begins moving stealthily, they pretty much go invisible. This is, of course, not such a big problem in PvE (after all, a semitransparent avatar merely represents that this character is being sneaky), however, the issue is quite different in PvP situations, and especially in a world where there are actual invisibility spells. Can sneaking out in the open and being "invisible" to other players be justified? Is there a way around this?

I think it's entirely possible to make a stealth system that is still reasonably effective, and makes invisibility spells still meaningful. It all revolves around using opposed stealth and perception skills/checks.

First things first: let's remember that in tabletop RPGs, there's a difference between character knowledge and player knowledge. If we apply this same principle to an online game, we might reasonably be able to see why an opposing player or mob who is clearly in the field of view displayed on the computer screen might be left "invisible". Just because it is actually there, since your in-game character is not aware of its presence, it is not visually represented to you. Then again, just because someone is moving stealthily in an open, well-lit area that your character is clearly looking at, does not mean they should still be "invisible". We need a means of reasonably determining character knowledge, and this is where perception comes in. Instead of merely being used for detecting and finding traps and trap mechanisms, a character's perception skill might be used to determine whether or not they can detect stealthed entities.

The other side of the coin is just how sneaky a character can be under different circumstances. Lighting should definitely play a major role, as well as cover, proximity, and distractions. But how do you manage all of these factors? I think the answer again lies in the tabletop game - circumstance bonuses and penalties. Pitch darkness might provide a healthy circumstance bonus to stealth checks, while bright light might provide such a harsh circumstance penalty that it makes it impossible to walk in front of someone without them noticing. Large commotions (such as nearby combat) would certainly make you more able to pass without being noticed.

Then that still leaves the question of how often perception should be rolled, and what bonuses should apply. I suggest the perception field of any character or creature be broken down as such: A 30 degree cone in front of the creature counts as its "center of attention" that always recieves a roll of 10 or above, every second. A wider 90 degree cone of visual perception makes visual perception rolls between 1 and 20 every six seconds (one round in tabletop). The creature is able to hear anything in a complete radius around themselves, but this roll is always between 1 and 20 as well, and is not affected by things like bright light, and is more harshly affected by noisy distractions.

What do you guys think?