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Here is a spell that I think goes inline with the Samsaran Race.

Samsaran Incarnation
School Conjuration; Level Cleric/Oracle 5, Druid 5
Casting Time 1 Hour
Components V, S, M, DF (blood from a Samsaran, special (xp cost/loss paid by recipient))
Range touch
Target dead creature touched, see text
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none, see text; Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

This spell is similar to Reincarnate and/or Raise Dead except for as noted below.

Samsaran incarnation returns a slain humanoid creature to a new life as a Samsaran provided that its death occurred no more than 1 week before the casting of the spell and the subject's soul is free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.

Samsaran Incarnation does not return a creature to its pervious life, instead it is the creation of a new life for the target of this spell. Roll up a new first level character of the Samsaran race and as the same class as the previous life, receive 75% of the memories (experience points) from the previous life at the time of death. Note, this will most likely mean that the new Samsaran is 1 level lower than they where in their previous life, this is not a negative level so it can not be recovered via Restoration or other normal magical means. If the previous life was a multi class character choose one of the classes to base this new life upon. Level up the new Samsaran based on the experience points received and allocating at least half (round up) of the new levels to the same class as the first level class of this new life.

The new creature appears to be a Samsaran analog of their former life similar to Ancestral Regression. No new equipment or material item is granted to this new character from the casting of this spell however they can “inherit” the belongings of their previous life provided they have access to those items, though this spell does not prevent any legal or ownership disputes that may arise.

Only a small portion of the creature’s body is required for this spell but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature's body at the time of death. If no part of the creature’s body is available to use for this spell then Samsaran Incarnation can be cast directly on the creature’s spirit or soul however this spell does not help locate, get to or recover that soul though other magic could help. This spell provides no benefit beyond one week from the time of death of the creature to be targeted even if cast upon the creature’s soul, the spell simply fails.


5 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required. 2 people marked this as a favorite.

What makes a divine spell divine?

Seems to me that it’s a question of the caster of the spell and how it’s being cast rather than the spell itself. After all a cleric casting a domain spell that is “normally arcane” is still a divine spell otherwise said cleric could use their ability to cast such spells to fulfill other prerequisites such as the requirements to become a Mystic Therge for instance without needing more than a single level in an arcane spell casting class.

So if bonus cleric spells are considered divine because they can be cast as divine spells then wouldn’t that hold true for other spell casting classes as well? Wouldn’t an Elf oracle’s bonus spells also be considered divine because they are being cast by a divine spell caster? And would that still remain true even if that Elf was an Ancient Lorekeeper (Oracle, Advance Race Guide page 24)?

The problem then becomes one of the Ancient Lorekeepers abilities and that’s Elven Arcana

Quote:


Elven Arcana (Ex): At 2nd level, an ancient lorekeeper’s mastery of elven legends and philosophy has allowed her to master one spell used by elven wizards. She selects one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least one level lower than the highest-level oracle spell she can cast. The ancient lorekeeper gains this as a bonus spell known. The spell is treated as one level higher than its true level for all purposes. The ancient lorekeeper may choose an additional spell at 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 18th levels. This ability replaces the bonus spells she would normally gain at these levels from her chosen mystery.

Fallowing this logic, any spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list 8th level and lower could then be considered a divine spell in the right hands. If this is true then another entry in the Advanced Race guide becomes a bit more of an issue and that’s on page 198 for the Samsarans.

Quote:


Mystic Past Life (Su): You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class. You add a number of spells equal to 1 + your spellcasting class’s key ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, and so on). The spells must be the same type (arcane or divine) as the spellcasting class you’re adding them to. For example, you could add divine power to your druid class spell list, but not to your wizard class spell list because divine power is a divine spell. These spells do not have to be spells you can cast as a 1st-level character. The number of spells granted by this ability is set at 1st level. Changes to your ability score do not change the number of spells gained. This racial trait replaces shards of the past.

Not really a problem for divine spell casters, it’s not that far of a stretch from what Lorekeepers can do, right? But what about a Samsaran arcane spell caster? Sure divine Samsarans can open up the vast majority of arcane spells to learn as divine spell by fallowing the bonus spell/caster path, but what about the reverse? Can a Samsaran wizard learn Heal or Raise Dead? I haven’t found a path that would allow them to do so yet (that doesn’t mean it’s not there though). Is this the intent of Paizo? Should divine casters have the spell options open up and not the arcane casters?

Am I understanding this correctly?

I don’t know, seams that this rule can be cleaned up/polished a bit. Seames that either a note excluding bonus spells granted from the possible choices or opening up the choices for arcane casters would be preferable. We can take some que’s from Wish and Miracle on how to handle this, something like,

“You may choose any spell 2 levels or lower than the maximum spell level for your class to add to your spell list for that class, these spells do not have to be spells you can cast as a 1st level character, however the choice must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed once made.”

Note, this would mean that a wizard or cleric could choose up to 7th level non class spells to use for their class while paladins and rangers would be limited to 2nd level non class spells for theirs. Again it keeps in line with the established precedence established from spells like Wish and Miracle.

Something along these lines also helps plug a nasty little loophole created by the spell Paragon Surge, but that’s a different topic and one that could be solved by specifying in the spell “any one combat feat”. I haven’t heard of anyone trying to use that spell to get around item creation feats, but I suppose that’s only a matter of time and again a different topic.

So any ideas, thoughts or comments about what makes a divine spell divine and its interaction/impactions in regards to Samsarans?


5 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

In the Advanced Race guide under the Samsarans is a cool archetype called Reincarnated Oracle. To take this archetype there are 2 revelations that you must also take at given levels.

The first is Location Memories, one of the benefits is it grants you low-light vision. The question is, Samsarans already have low-light vision, if you need to be this race to take this archetype and you have to take this revelation as part of the archetype, why does it grant the same ability that you already have from your race? Shouldn't the vision bonus granted from Location Memories be dark vision instead?

The second is Spirit Memories, it starts off by saying once per day then finishes by saying you can use this ability equal to 3+ your charisma modifier. Which is it? Once or 3+Cha?

I hope these make it into the errata.


Say I have a 3rd level universal wizard with an intelligence of 16 then I would be able to cast 3x (2+1 bonus) 1st level spells per day and 2x (1+1 bonus) 2nd level spell per day. This wizard also has the silent spell feat.

So could this wizard prepare and cast 2 silent magic missiles per day or would they be limited to 1 because the silent spell feat doesn’t actually change a spells level?

This question arises because of a new rule added in the past 24 hours and I am trying to understand the extent of it.

From the FAQ

Quote:


Can I use bonus spells from a high ability score (page 17) even if my spellcasting class level isn't high enough to give me access to those spell levels?
No. You only get the bonus spells if your class level grants you access to those spell levels. You can't even use them for lower-level spells. See page 16, Abilities and Spellcasters section: "In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level. "

I understand that the same wizard is no longer able to prepare and cast regular 5 magic missiles per day with this new rule, but could they still cast 4? Or has the rule on page 218 of the CRB also been changed?

Core rule book page 218

Quote:


Spell Slots: The various character class tables show
how many spells of each level a character can cast per day.
These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A
spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell
slot with a lower-level spell.


Please disregard that fallowing as it has been settled by a developer from Piazo. The answer is no, you don’t get bonus spell slots for a given level until you are of high enough level to cast spells from that level. Thank you to Sean K Reynolds (developer) and Concerro (member) for clearing this up.

Original Post fallows.

Core rule book page 218
Spell Slots: The various character class tables show
how many spells of each level a character can cast per day.
These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A
spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell
slot with a lower-level spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high
enough ability score to cast spells that would otherwise be
his due still gets the slots but must fill them with spells of
lower levels.

Core rule book page 220
Spell Slots: The character class tables show how many
spells of each level each can cast per day. These openings
for daily spells are called spell slots. A spellcaster always has
the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level
spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score
to cast spells that would otherwise be her due still gets the
slots but must fill them with spells of lower levels.

Core rule book page 17
A wizard gains bonus spells based on his Intelligence
score. The minimum Intelligence score needed to cast a
wizard spell is 10 + the spell’s level.

Core rule book page 78
A wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each
spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on
Table 3–16. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he
has a high Intelligence score (see Table 1–3).

I have looked around and have seen several posts and threads stating a low level spell caster cannot use their higher level bonus spells per day to prepare low level spells (either by themselves or) with metamagic feats.

Example 1:
A 1st level wizard with an intelligence of 20 would have a 5th level bonus spell slots per table 1-3 (page 17) so could he use Quicken Spell to cast a magic missile as a swift action?

Example 2:
A 1st level wizard with an intelligence of 14 would have a 2th level bonus spell slots per table 1-3 (page 17) so could he use that spell slot to prepare an additional 1st level spell?

The general consensus here on the forums is “no, a spell caster cannot use a spell slot of a level that they cannot cast” however this idea seems to conflict with other rules within the core rule book. Can anyone point me to the rule stating one way or the other that clarifies this or can a Piazo representative give an official ruling one way or the other?

Thank you for your time.