Hanshar's page

Paul...I agree with your Superman/Batman example but only because of how they are written in the comics. If Superman suddenly decided he was tired of being a good-guy, I'm guessing he could be extremly intimidating. The Colossus/Wolverine example is harder. Both would be extremely intimidating to face.

Your comments about class versus cross-class skills do make sense to me though. In the end, Intimidate is a skill and if you want a fighter to be intimidating,putting points in it is probably more important than the ability modifier associated with the skill.

Another game system called Harnmaster had an interesting approach to skills. Each skill was based on an average of three ability scores slots. A heavy weapon skill might be based on (STR STR DEX) while a bow skill was based on (DEX DEX EYE). If I were going to add the Intimidate skill to that system, it would be something like (STR WIL AURA)...Aura being somewhat similar to Charisma. That doesn't help with this game system though ;-)

After all the views that have been posted regarding intimidate, I went back the the PHB to do some searching. I noticed that only three classes were given intimidate as a class skill and none of them are particularly charismatic... er, that is not if they are created in the typical format. The three classes are Barbarian, Fighter and Rogue. Three of the most charismatic classes were not given the skill: Bard, Paladin and Sorcerer. What was the original intent for the skill then? I know that a player can build a fighter, barbarian, or rogue with high charisma but I'm betting that most people who play these classes use it as a dump stat. Charisma is certainly not listed as an important stat for these classes either. Does anyone have an opinion on this? These classes are three of the most physical violent; intimidation seems natural for them...except for the fact that it is charisma based.

Now read Intimidate "frighten an opponent with verbal threats and displays of prowess."

A mage can do this just as well as a warrior. he just does it differently. Thats why STR or Cha would work with the intimidate skill. Its true that some of the previous examples could be construed to be a use of the bluff skill. Consider this though, if a weedy mage makes a threat of harm...is it really bluff if he can back it up?. In the case of a brute, I don't think the use of the words, "Hulk Smash" is Cha based. His threatening words are effective because of his size and strength. The small rogue with the dagger is effective because you believe he might cut your throat while you sleep...more likely Cha based.

I do see a thin line between Intimidate and Bluff though.

I'll say again that using STR or Cha (players choice) is a good idea. A fighter or a barbarian are not typically charismatic. A sorceror usually is. It seems ludicrous that a 6'2 215 lb. platform of brute strength has less chance of intimidating someone than a 5'8" 160 lb. sorceror. Thats not to say that the sorceror can't intimidate someone...he just does it through force of will and perhaps a display of arcane might. His victim can sense that the sorceror is very capable and willing to do him harm.

The warrior, on the other hand, is just physically intimidating with his size and nasty-looking weapons. He doesn't have to really exert his will to get his point across.

I realize that my comments can be disected and counter-points given but I think having a choice of stats (without use of a feat) is the best option.

A DM can easily police abuse of rules in a home campaign. He can limit the number of base classes and prestige classes if he so desires. If home games were all there were, no real changes would need to be made to the rules. The real problems arise in things like Living Campaigns. You are giving standards with which to create your character but no DMs have any say in what you do. If you want to abuse Munchkining, you can. This is why something needs to be improved in the rules set. After playing for almost three years in a Living Greyhawk campaign, I saw some 'afflictomatic' characters that were only possible because of base class and prestige class hopping. Hopefully something can be done to fix this.

I think the ability modifier associated with the Intimidate skill should be STR or Cha chosen by the player...no feat necessary.

One issue I have with the Arcane Armor Training and Arcane Armor Mastery feats is the requirement of a swift action to use. I would think that these feats are passive in that they grant their benefits all the time. This is just my opinion of course.