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Well, she isn't in Exchange though. Thought about it, but she'd have to change faction later on due to her alignment (she isn't greedy enough for exchange) and thus I started her in grand lodge right away. Thanks anyway for the advice. ^^ Yes mechanically the point at merchant might be redundant for the most part. I'll still keep it. I'd even have loved to have one more point for such a useless thing like Perform (Sing) ... but c'est la vie. :D
Given that she's from Absalom I think Knw (local) is more appropriate. Thx :D Q concerning the always prepared ant haul... how much would that cost? Is it maybe cheaper than a mule? Concerning Appraise: just looked into it: I do not even have a skillpoint in Appraise. ^^ So no point to move, except maybe disable device or linguistics? With disable device the better candidate?
Thx ekibus that is helpful advice. Main reasons for the mule right now is a) a mwk backpack is to expensive and b) as a merchant she needs a way to transport large weights anway. Handy haversack is clearly #1 on the shopping list. ;) Most of her equipment is assumed to be replaced rather soon, so I didn't go for the best option in most choices, but one that will do a good enough job till I bought something better.
You do realize that you are building a strawman? Nobody ever talked about no combat, except for you. If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail. Seems for you the ONE solution is combat... which it isn't for me. So thank you for your advice, I do fully understand that you've got a hammer ... while my char has a pletoria of tools to deal with a pletoria of problems. With a (small) hammer being one of them. Thank you, and bye.
Thank you, seems I missed some class skills. If it wasn't this specific char I could switch Cha and Str. But she is cute/beautyful and her "nerdyness" doesn't explain THAT much loss of charisma. :D Eirian Avenstar
Changes: added the class skills, made the distinction between skills with or without buckler, and added the keen senses perception bonus What I need now is a nice fitting fencing merchant outfit costing less than 10 gp and weighing less than 5.5 lbs. Also I need to redo the pathfinders kit into something more appropriate ideally weighing not more than 25 lbs. Thus I'd have 5 lbs allowance to move from the mule to my inventory, and could still carry everything I own while staying below 53 lbs. PS: Is there a list with separate entries for single pieces of clothing?
20 gp Chargen shopping list:
-8 gp mule
Yes, I'm at 51 lbs so 2 lbs below max if I carry everything myself. Once I drop the stuff (which is usually carried by the mule), I'm below 26 lbs, so fine. Don't need a sack, a backpack is part of the pathfinders kit. Main problem for now is the explorers outfit. I'd like to be a bit more specific on that, so that I have some leeway to frex carry the silk rope aside the clothes, armor , weapons and buckler. I'll probably also gonna go through the pathfinders kit to integrate the dagger and stuff. MageHunter, where do you think I forgot the class skill bonuses? For now it's only swashbuckler, I'll get the investigator class skills at lvl 2.
Thx Ryzoken. My character as will be used for Bid for Alabastrine (7-22) looks like this: Eirian Avenstar
Does that look like it could work as base for the investigator? I'm not completely done with the equipment though... Haven't found a list with separate clothing prices and weight. Any ideas?
Concerning CHA: thank you, THAT is an argument that is indeed helpfull. I was having quite some trouble justifying to myself having Cha 10... but given your argument the equation is simple: her looks and charms would put her at significantly above 10, with her lack of insight into the basic drives (like sex, booze or football) bring her back down to 10. Concerning your statement about 99.9% being between 10 and 11... FLATLY wrong. Take a look at http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores, Pathfinder obviously uses only as VERY narrow part f the gaussian normal distribution. Genius level for example has a minimum IQ of 125 (Feynmann) with more usual examples being IQ 145 to 160. <IQ 125 is roughly 95%, <IQ 145 is roughly 99.9% and <IQ 160 is roughly 1 out of 30,000 people. Going by Pathfinder "genius level" being 18-19... then your 99.9% are better placed as 17 or lower... Also: 99.9% is a rather common occurence. That's 300,000 people in the USA alone. Genius level using IQ 160? The 10,000 smartest people of the USA. So please, before you start throwing around with "normality" ... get a bit info on median, standard distribution and the like. It's easy to understand, if you didn't waste all your points on useless stats.
Thank you for explaining RP to me... somehow I seem to have done it wrong for 25+ years... And most of my playpartners seem to have done it ALL wrong as well. Or maybe you just explained roll-playing to me? Or tried to "win an argument"? Whatever it is... it seems we have incompatible ideas of what my hobby entails. So apparently the advice you can give me ... will lead towards your hobby, a hobby I do not share. Playing a round of Steve Jacksons Munchkin is fine and well ... but not while roleplaying. I wish you well, have fun with your hobby, while I have with mine. PS: KingOfAnything, Helikon and several others, thx for your advice. I'll heed it, and adapted my char with the advice of some other people as well. Mithril is on my list, running fast is there as well. Telling me how to make my char playable instead of telling me what char I should play is really what I was looking for, and you as well as several others did so.
I was thinking about improving on Dex with the stat increase, and yes, Mithril based light armor. I'm not totally averse to lowering Int... but I'm not gonna go into a completely different char concept as suggested by basically becoming a Dex build (with a bit of Int). Maybe I should try asking those two questions: Q: can attributes be raised past 20 with stat increases? if yes... then I'd use my stat increases on Int. If no, then I'd probably lower her Int at start, and raise it with the 4th and maybe even 8th level stat increase back to 20. Q2: how expensive is changing faction and/or alignment? Some background for that q: Eirian goes adventuring as she is expected to take over the aquisition part of her mothers business. Which is a "all things magical" shop. So she needs to get out, make contacts all over the world, dealing for the wares sold in said shop. Fencing was part of her education to allow her to stand her ground in case the bodyguards got swarmed. She starts out in the society to learn her ropes on aquisition of magical items, and to gain contacts within the society. Of course, this might/will probably change over time, but at the start she is in it for opportunistic reasons. That's also the reason why I had her as CG to TN... actually it would be more precise to consider her TN to CG as that's exactly the alignment switch I assume her to take. From a teenager doing what's opportune and expected from her by her family, towards a strong willed personality following her own path. Same about faction, if changing faction wouldn't cost something, I'd have her start in the exchange, and switch allegiance to grand lodge later on.
Sorry Ekibus if you consider my answer impolite. I'm just getting a tad tired of being thrown off course by suggestions leading to a completely different concept. My char IS done, and will not change... I'm only trying to work out the mechanics. I'm open to suggestions that help get the mechanics done. But posts telling me that I MUST play a completely different concept... do not help.
Thank you, that info about retroactive skill gain helps. :D Being competent with a rapier is an optional part of the concept... given the suggestions by Ekibus it would become the central part of the concept. Eirian goes adventuring as she is expected to take over the aquisition part of her mothers business. Which is a "all things magical" shop. So Eirian needs to get out, make contacts all over the world, dealing for the wares sold in said shop. Fencing was part of her education to allow her to stand her ground in case the bodyguards got swarmed. She starts out in the society to learn her ropes on that part, and to gain contacts within the society. Of course, this might/will probably change over time, but at the start she is in it for opportunistic reasons. If changing faction wouldn't cost something, I'd even have her start in the exchange, and switch allegiance to grand lodge later on, as that is exactly the path I see her going.
Wait guys... remember I'm NOT playing a swashbuckler. I DIP into swashbuckling. I do NOT play a true fighter, EVER. Skirmisher is the max I'm into. What you suggest Ekibus is a WHOLE different character. All swashbuckling is intended to do, is buff the investigator a bit. If that can't be done... then forget about it. Also Dex isn't my main attribute, Int is, with Dex the secondary attribute... honestly I'd rather drop the whole swashbuckler thing than crippling my char that much. An answer like "you gain a lot" isn't helping either. I don't care if I'm not a wizard, my char is a merchant, a scholar, not a fighter. Thus I need facts that I'm not looking at, not some vague assumptions. Facts that I can base a decision on. Facts that would truly benefit my character, not twist it into some munchkiny caricature of itself.
OK, out of curiosity, because I was told SO often that I should reduce Int: What would I sacrifice, and what do I gain by dropping Int by 1 or 2 points? Sacrifices: permanent 4/8 skill ranks (1 each lvl without Int 20)
Gains: permanent up to 5 additional attribute points (lost 2, gained up to 7) ... in attributes I consider less important
What else? What other sacrifices or gains do I not take into account, and why are they so important that everyone keeps telling me: lower Int. ^^
Thanks for the feedback. Looking a bit more into the wizard, I think I'll pass on that (for this char). I have an idea now for another char, which might be a gnomish buffer bard, as well as a third one, which probably will be a wizard. But this first char stands as empiricist investigator with one lvl of spirited blade swashbuckler at the side. Thank you all for your patience.
One thing thats bothering me about bard, is that I'd have to take Cha. I don't want Charisma. First, it's difficult enough to get by with the points already. Also... my char is not intended to be Charisma based. Yes, she is attractive in a cute way. Yes she is well enough mannered. But she also got a brain that is so powerfull, that her thoughts are very different from most people. She can get by with people that hardly understand her... but she does so with her mind, not her charms. Music, acting, dancing... all those are a mere hobby to her, not her way to influence the world. Her mind, her arguments is her tool. And even an orator bard is using her charisma to make people do what she wants... not logic.
Please... the more you guys insist on "you have to take bard" the more you are basically saying: "this system is so f... broken, that if you take anything else than the Tier 1 or 2 classes, you will not have any fun". If that's the case, please state it outright, instead of insisting for me to play a class of which I said several times that I do not feel comfortable with playing with THIS character. Which basically tells me that I shouldn't play PFS at ALL. So is the system as broken, that you can't successfully play a char that is NOT a wiz or something like that, or overly pimped?
Yes I'm short on HP, but I'll get d8 hit dice on the later levels, right? The main question here is if I want to play to strengths or weaknesses. And honestly, 1 skill point is worth more to me than 1 HP I hope. Concerning attributes... I considered droping Int, but ... no, I do not feel comfortable doing it. Same about dropping Cha below 0... while I do not need the skill, she is neither ugly nor overly boring. Honestly I'm gonna play her as cute and attractive, but also slightly to intelligent for most people. So while I would have to increase her Cha for her appearance, I'd have to lower it for the eerie vibe most very intelligent people seem to give of to "normal" people. Stamina is of course a concern ... no points left for that. I could drop Str even further, and either go for Dex 15 (with a higher AC soon) or Con 12 ... I'd rather go for nimbleness, as she truly isn't very massiv. What do you think? Concerning your combat suggestions... those are for higher levels right? I'm not sure how I'll fare there feat wise, so can't judge it yet.
OK, let's get at the numbers: I'll start with the inspired blade swashbuckler, to get it done with. Str 8, Dex 14, Int 20, rest 10 AC 10 + 2 (dex)
Fort 0
BAB +1
Ini 2 (dex) + 2 (reactive) Feats: Weapon Finesse (Rapier, archetype), Weapon Focus (Rapier, archetype), Skill Focus (Perception, racial), ???(bonus) Traits: Elf Blood (racial), Keen Senses (racial), Low-Light-Vision(racial), Student of Philosophy (social), Pragmatic Activator (magic), Reactionary (combat), Low-Self-Esteem/Vain (drawback) Class Abilities: Inspired Panache (6), Deeds, Inspired Finesse (2 good feats) Skills (4 + 5 (int) +1 (FCB)): Acrobatics, Appraise, Craft (Alchemy), Diplomacy, Disable Device, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Perception, Sense Motive, UMD Lanuages: common, elven, halfling, dwarvish, gnome, azlanti, draconic Did I forget something? Does it make sense? Oh, and what should I use for a bonus feat? Something not too cheesy.
Thank you, that info does help me. I don't need super buffs. I looked into bards which have them, but I honestly I got a feel of overly min maxing. So great buffs are good enough for me. I don't need to be the best with the rapier... just enough to skirmish with the mooks, so that the heavy hitters can finish off the mains. But I need a char with the numbers to support my social play. No sense in speaking in golden tongues, if your numbers turn out Will Wheaton level.
Finlander, I can easily do a roleplay char myself. But the rules here are proving to be a real hurdle to that. As are the continuous: "you can't do that" from some people. The empiricist investigator (with a dip into inspired swashbuckler) looks like a solid concept... except for the insistance that she can't buff. Honestly, I get really into questioning, if this whole play system isn't totally out of whack mechanic wise. Reading on "tier 1" chars, that apparently are better at everything than a char specialized at it, makes me question the sense in playing a well thought up specialized char. To say it again: I'm not gonna play a munchkin char. I'm not gonna play a char I have no connection to. And if that's the only way to play at PFS, I wont play PFS at all.
The main reason for me seeming to jump around on what I want to do, is that I get told I can't do what i want to do. I wanted to do a crafter... which i was told is not allowed. I wanted to do a social char and buffer. Which I was told, will not get into groups nor survive. I added fencing... and promptly was told that I wouldn't be able to buff... I'm NOT interested in being a bowoman. I don't want to play a bard, nor a summoner... Neither do I want to be a fighter with some buffing only. If it's impossible to play a dedicated social char, with buffing as her major contribution to the fight. And decent at the rapier to kill of the mooks once buffing is done... If that's impossible please just say so that I can delete my PFS account. EDIT: Sorry if I sound angry and frustrated. Because at the moment I am... From all your suggestions I get the impression, that PF has NOTHING to do with roleplay, but is merely a cheap excuse of a tabletop combat simulation. And honestly: I can't and wont play a dumbed down Diablo 3 caricature of a RP character. I'm in it for the RP, not for some cheap computer action MMORPG rip off.
Gal, not guy. ^^ Also I do not want to have the form of her head to be the defining element. In combat I see her first job in buffing, her second job in skirmishing. I'd prefer her to be a ranged combat crowd controller/skirmisher, but given that this seems to be very troublesome feature wise, she'll probably be a rapier skirmisher. Keeping the mooks under controll/dead, while the tank goes for the big baddy.
Elongated head yes I would do it for myself in RL, but not sure how it would be looked by GMs. On the one hand, I consider it min/maxing which I dislike. On the other hand ... PFS is SO combat centric, that I'm afraid my char wont even make it into any games if she isn't min/maxed in her fields of strength. What do you guys think? Swashbuckler Yeah, I was thinking about the swashbuckler as well. When did you go with it? Swashbuckler first, and starting empiricist after that? My basic idea for the moment is taking that 1 lvl of inspired swashbuckler, then go full for social butterfly/team buffer with rapier as my "combat skill" as concession on the combat aspect. Not sure if that's even possible to pull of, or if it's to broad? So yeah, she'd probably rather similar to what you describe, though with a stronger (int based) social aspect.
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