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Dracorage wrote:

Rysky wrote:

A worker and a Hireling are two different things.

Earn Income in the beginning of the Skills section would be closer to the standard worker, which for a level 0 aka a Commoner, would be 5cp a day.

Okay, now I get your point. Although I don't see what an unskilled hireling would do different than the worker. And/or why he gets double the money.

Either way, the income of 5 cp a day only means that four (instead of two) months of work are equivalent to a longsword. Still missing the proportion. I think, Paizo forgot to change the income numbers. Just my two coppers. :)

1) the double part is if you drag someone along on a adventure, which brings with it a high rate of mortality.

2) An unskilled hireling would be “hey kid, wanna earn some coin real quick? Can you take this package to this location?” You ordering pizza from a pizzeria does not make the pizza makers Hirelings.

3) what does longswords have to do with anything?

1) No, I mean, why does an unskilled hireling (1 sp/day) would earn twice as much as a worker (5 cp/day).

2) I know what hiring means. I just don't see what makes the income double just by being hired. Unskilled people mostly will be hired, else they will earn nothing.

3) Making clear the missing proportion by example. Either Paizo wanted to change the system from gold to silver standard. Then they should not only reduce the price of a standard valuable item (the longsword) but also the middle income of everyday people. Or they wanted to dump prices of valuable items so that the longsword is no more equivalent to 150 days of unskilled work but equivalent to 10 (or 20) days of unskilled work.

A worker and a Hireling are two different things.

Earn Income in the beginning of the Skills section would be closer to the standard worker, which for a level 0 aka a Commoner, would be 5cp a day.

Okay, now I get your point. Although I don't see what an unskilled hireling would do different than the worker. And/or why he gets double the money.

Either way, the income of 5 cp a day only means that four (instead of two) months of work are equivalent to a longsword. Still missing the proportion. I think, Paizo forgot to change the income numbers. Just my two coppers. :)

Talking about realism: Sure it seems to be a bit more towards that, but Paizo missed to change a central point - the income of unskilled and skilled workers. An unskilled hireling still earns 1 sp a day. So ten days of (unskilled!) work is worth a longsword, two months a chain mail. I know the worker couldn't buy these because of his costs, but that's not the point. A skilled one earns still 15 gp a month. After a year of comfortable living (minus 4 gp) he's a rich man.

Viewed from the base point of income the new money system is broken.

I have to say the reason I avoided arcane casters in PF1 was in part- once you are out of spell slots, you are a bad crossbowman (or woman, etc.) Between "cantrips scale respectably" and you can rely on your focus powers 1-3 times per fight, I don't mind that spell slots are individually weaker.

And this brings us back to my original post.

I think you can say yes to my question part B. On his superb spells of 1e the wizard got nerfed. But he received good substitutes, meaningful cantrips (which are perhaps a misnomer now) and more versatility with focus spells and arcane thesis.

I hope, I can convince my player. :)

The fundamental framing of that question is really bizarre.

That aside, PF2 wizards are more fun unless your primary source of enjoyment is just winning.

Framing was not intended, just asking a question. And what's bizarre with that? No offense meant, I am not a native speaker and maybe I an missing a (semantic?) point here.

So all in all: As a player playing a mid-level wizard, why should I bother switching from 1e to 2e?

My BFC spells get (heavily) nerfed. What's in for me? The best things in 2e (in general opinion), the 3-action-system and the versatility in character advancement, are they any good in the light of the nerf? Isn't the new action system more a benefit for the fighting classes? And my character advancement was already fine because of the nice BFC spells I could aquire.