Marzena

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My wife and I have a friend who is deaf and we're thinking about inviting her to our game. While my wife can sign pretty well, my signing skills are pretty rudimentary and the other players at the table don't sign at all. My question is, has anyone here had deaf players at the table in a situation like this, and if so, what did you do to help the hearing and deaf players communicate with one another and how did you help everyone feel included? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.


In order to avoid repeating myself, I think the best place to start is here. Once you're finished reading, follow the link I include in the top of my blog post, or just click the following link.

Once you're done reading, please let me know what you think. In particular, I'd like to know if there's anything that you think seems broken. If you'd like to post sample spells crafted using this system, that would be really cool too.


I just posted a new class to my blog. I'd like to get some feedback on it. The link is provided below. Let me know what you think. Thanks.

Shadow-Tattoo Artist


So while I'm technically DMing a 4E game for one group, I'm now playing a character in another campaign, and in many respects it seems like playing a character is a totally different beast, and right now I'm struggling to understand how you're supposed to calculate damage.

For example, let's say I'm playing a 14th level character with a 22 Wis, and I have a power that says it deals 1[W] + Wis modifier damage. However, on my character sheet, I have two Wisdom modifiers. I have my base modifier (+6), and I have my level modifier (+13).

I looked under the rules for modifiers in the first chapter of the PHB, and it seems to suggest I should use the latter. However, the group I'm playing with thinks it should be the former. Which one is it?


My wife and I both got a good chuckle. :-)


I find it a little surprising that people who complain about point buy often say that it allows players to min/max their characters. It surprises me because our group actually started using point buy in order to prevent players from min/maxing. For example, we noticed that DMs rarely expected players to keep their ability scores if they rolled poorly, because it put them at a disadvantage compared to players who rolled well. We also noticed that DMs never expected players to roll again when they rolled exceptionally high on their ability scores. Because of this, we noticed players in our games often wound up with characters that had ability scores far higher than anything they would have had if they had used point buy.

I'm curious to know what sorts of experiences people have had with point buy. Have you noticed that it results in min/maxed characters, or have you noticed the opposite? Let me know.


Nevermind. Found it.


I guess some people didn't want to post on my thread because they didn't want to mess up its organization. Here's a thread you can use to comment.


I figure people can use this thread to post pics of their Dwarven Forge reconstructions of the Age of Worms Adventure Path

Battle Temple of Hextor

Module: Three Faces of Evil (Dungeon #125)

Sets used:
-Narrow Passages Set.
-Rooms & Passages Set.
-Rooms Set.
-4X4 floor piece from Caverns & Passages Set.

Overhead Shot
Front Shot
Theldrick's Throne
Weapons Rack
Overhead Shot of Second Floor Foundation

The room is about 20 feet (4 squares) shorter than the one from the module. I'm sure you can guess that this is entirely because I started to run out of pieces.


One of the players in my group is playing a wizard, and she asked me if her character could have a pet squirrel. I thought it was a cool idea, and wanting to make the game enjoyable for her, I told her yes. I then put together a stat block for the creature, based on the rules for creating companion characters from the DMG2 (see below). I told her that for right now, the squirrel is just a pet, and that if she wants to use it to attack other creatures, or the like, she'll need to use Handle Animal to teach it tricks.

Of course, now that I sent this out to her, I'm worried that it might be a little much. I'm also worried about what happens if the rest of the party starts asking for pets. This is particularly a concern since I'm running Age of Worms in 4E, and the party hasn't found the baby owlbear yet.

I've thought about maybe adding in additional rules (like maybe she needs to make a Nature skill check to get it to perform a trick it knows). However, given that I've never even run a 4E game before, I'm not certain if that's necessary, or if it would just be better to let her run it the way it is.

What has been your experience with giving players pets in 4E? Does it unbalance the game? Let me know.

Squirrel (Level 1 Striker)
Tiny natural beast
Initiative +8 Senses Perception +5
HP 13; Bloodied 6; Healing Surges 7
AC 15; Fortitude 16; Reflex 14; Will 14
Speed 6 , Climb 6

Bite (standard; at-will)
+6 vs AC; 1d6 + 3 damage

Agile
A squirrel can take 10 on any Acrobatics skill check, even when threatened or distracted.

Alignment Unaligned Languages
Skills Acrobatics +11, Stealth +11
Str 10 (+0) Dex 23 (+6) Wis 10 (+0)
Con 12 (+1) Int 2 (–4) Cha 6 (–2)


Campaign Hook:

"In the Age of Worms Adventure Path, all of the players begin play as residents of Diamond Lake who share one common goal—escaping to a better life once certain financial obligations have been met."

This is the background for players as presented in the Age of Worms Adventure Path. The assumption is that players will want to explore the Whispering Cairn and use the treasure they find there to leave Diamond Lake. This sounds like a pretty good adventure hook, as it provides incentive and gives players some great ideas for character creation. However, after playing through the Age of Worms campaign three times, I have to say, it doesn't always work out as well as you'd think.

In the first two games I played, the DM used this adventure hook exactly as written, and the players all created characters with a burning desire to leave Diamond Lake. In both games, everything proceeded just fine until the PCs traveled to the Land Family Graveyard and discovered that someone had taken all of the Land Family bodies to Diamond Lake.

At this point, both games ground to a halt."You mean we have to go back to the town?" The players whined. "You realize I wrote into my background that my character doesn't ever want to go back there, right?" The players then debated over whether it was worth it to continue exploring the Whispering Cairn, or if they should just take the lanterns they found in the Hall of Honor, and sell them in Free City.

This is, of course, when the DM chimed in. "The adventure assumes that you guys will remain in Diamond Lake for several adventures. If you travel to Free City now, you're basically blowing the whole adventure."

The players grumbled amongst themselves, a few of them even saying that their characters would just stay behind and wait for the rest of the party to come back. However, after some careful coaxing from the DM, who went on to explain that the whole second module also takes place in Diamond Lake, the players reluctantly decide to play along.

In both of these campaigns, the games eventually fell apart somewhere around the second module. The third time I played, however, the DM decided to ignore the adventure hook listed in the module, and instead, created a wizard NPC, named Olaus. In this adventure hook, Olaus is a mutual friend of the PCs who lives just outside of Diamond Lake. Olaus sends a letter to each member of the party to come visit him for a dinner party. The players agree to go and are greeted by Olaus's servant, Jiles, who escorts them into the dining room. There, they are ambushed by a band of rogues. Eventually, the players learn that Olaus has been killed by the rogues, and that Jiles is actually a doppelganger member of their gang in disguise. They also discover papers in Olaus's office that talk about the Whispering Cairn.

Now there were some big plot holes in this introduction. First and foremost, what are the rogues doing there? If they're there to steal Olaus's stuff, why didn't they just kill him, take his stuff, and leave? It also seemed a little contrived that Olaus just happened to get attacked by bandits some time between sending the letters and the PCs' arrival, and that the bandits just happened to have a doppelganger in their party who could disguise himself as Olaus's servant, Jiles. That said, it was interesting enough that I decided to go with the basic premise of this introduction, with a few minor changes.

In my campaign, I decided to make Olaus an expert on the study of the Wind Dukes of Aaqa. Through research, he stumbles across a reference to the Age of Worms prophecy and belaboring to understand the role that the Wind Dukes’ played in it, he traveled to Free City in order to conduct further research. There, while poring over ancient records of the city’s Great Library, Olaus ran afoul of the Ebon Triad. Barely escaping from the city with his life, Olaus returned home, where he immediately penned a letter to the PCs.

Sadly, Sharlin, a doppelganger assassin, accompanied by several Ebon Triad Cultists, got to Olaus first. There, Sharlin killed all of Olaus’s servants, and for several days interrogated the old wizard under torture. During the interrogation, Sharlin learned of the letter Olaus wrote to the PCs. Now, disguised as Olaus, Sharlin waits for the PCs to arrive.

I like this introduction because it ties everything together quite neatly; even going so far as to introduce the doppelgangers from Free City, who don't come in for several adventures. I also like that it gives the PCs an opportunity to meet Allustan, who played a big part in our games, but who, for the life of me, I can't remember how we met.

Running the Game:

I decided to divide this introduction into two encounters. The first encounter occurs, as it did in my friend's game, in Olaus's dining room. Sharlin, disguised as Olaus, decides to raise a toast to their mutual friendship. Only then, when the PCs are poisoned by the wine, does she call for the Ebon Triad cultists, who are hiding in the kitchen, along with the doppelganger disguised as Jiles.

The second encounter occurs in Olaus's study. There a couple of cultists, assisted by an Ebon Triad priest, search for any notes Olaus might have on the Age of Worms prophecy. If Sharlin escapes from the first combat, she is here as well.

If the PCs defeat the cultists, they eventually discover Olaus's notes about the Whispering Cairn. They also learn about Allustan (Diamond Lake, Dungeon #124), with whom Olaus planned to explore the tomb.

This introduction worked pretty well. The PCs each created backgrounds explaining how their characters knew Olaus. It was also nice to open the game immediately with a little combat. Finally, I have to say that I really enjoyed the looks on the players' faces when I had them make saving throws for the poisoned wine. "See?" one player cried. "This is exactly why you can't trust the NPCs!"

Unfortunately, because the players spent the first half of the night working on character creation, they didn't get to the second encounter. Not that it mattered. The party was so injured from the first encounter that it's unlikely they would have made it through another fight (see below for details).

Things I Learned:

Running a game in 4E is really nothing like running a game in 3.5. For starters, in 3.5, the game assumes that the PCs will need to rest after roughly four encounters (a little less if the encounter levels are higher than the party's level). Thinking in those terms, I thought that I would create a really challenging encounter for the first room, and a second encounter that would be pretty easy by itself, but which assumed that Sharlin might make an appearance. I thought that if I designed the encounters this way, it would make for a pretty challenging introduction, but one that wasn't so challenging that it would kill the party. With that in mind, I designed the two encounters thus:

Dining Room
Level 3 Encounter (700 XP)
-Sharlin doppelganger assassin (level 8 lurker) (XP 350)
-Jiles doppelganger sneak (level 3 skirmisher) (XP 150)
-4 Ebon Triad cultists (level 1 minion) (XP 100)
-oil of taggit (level 1 poison) (XP 100)

Olaus's Study
Level 1 Encounter (225 XP)
-Ebon Triad priest (level 4 controller) (XP 175)
-2 Ebon Triad cultists (level 1 minion) (XP 50)

What I didn't take into consideration is that in 4E, if you have different monster groups all interacting with one another, you should really treat the whole thing as one, giant encounter. The reason for this is because the players typically take a short rest after every encounter in order to regain healing surges and encounter powers. Unfortunately, I didn't take these factors into consideration. As a result, what I thought would be a fairly well balanced pair of encounters turned into an uber encounter that nearly killed one party member, and left all the players so spent on powers that they had to barricade themselves into the dining room to keep out Sharlin and the cultists from Olaus's Study while they rested.

If I had this encounter to do again, I would probably lower Sharlin's and Jiles' levels and design it thus:

Olaus's House
Level 4 Encounter (875 XP)
-Sharlin doppelganger assassin (level 6 lurker) (XP 300)
-Jiles doppelganger sneak (level 3 skirmisher) (XP 150)
-Ebon Triad priest (level 4 controller) (XP 175)
-6 Ebon Triad cultists (level 1 minion) (XP 150)
-oil of taggit poison (level 1 poison) (XP 100)

That said, I think it worked out. While the PCs were resting, Sharlin and the other cultists ran off, presumably to regroup. I haven't decided exactly what will happen next, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Sharlin and her gang make an appearance at some point in the catacombs of the Whispering Cairn. :P


A friend of mine asked me to DM for a new group he's forming, so I wrote back, that I'd love to, that I've been wanting to run the Age of Worms campaign for a while, and that this would give me a chance to do that. I then went and downloaded all of the modules. Perhaps I should have waited because later, he wrote me back and said, "You realize we're playing 4E, right?"

Anyway, rather than eating 60 bucks, I decided to try and convert the Age of Worms to 4E.

I've already converted the first module with no problems. However, I'm working on the second one and I have a question. In the Citadel of Hextor, there are a lot of different groups in different rooms who try to lure the PCs into the Battle Temple of Hextor. There, they have a pretty epic battle with all the different groups attacking the PCs at once.

Now this works fine in 3.5, since a party can basically go through five encounters before they need to replenish resources for the day. However, since resources in 4E are encounter based, and since each of these encounters occurs one right after the other, I'm worried that if I try to bring multiple encounters together like this, it will be too much for the party.

Now I've thought of a few ways to overcome this problem. One is to give the PCs an opportunity to recharge their encounter powers throughout the combat the way some monsters do by rolling a 5 or a 6. Another is to just count up the number of individual encounters in the temple and allow the PCs to use their encounter powers that many times. Still another is to adjust the levels of the cultists so that all of the encounters are treated as one large encounter.

Personally, I like the first option the best because I think it prevents the players from just burning through their encounter powers all at once. However, if they don't roll those numbers often enough, it could turn into a blood bath, which is why I'm thinking maybe I should give them all their encounter powers up front. Personally, I don't like the last option at all, because if the players are smart and are somehow able to take the different groups on one at a time, it will be way too easy for them. However, maybe that's the way to go.

Since this is really my first ever 4E game, I'm curious to know what others think. How would you handle this combat scenario?


I'm a little fuzzy on generating new ability scores for monsters from scratch. The DMG says that the highest ability scores for a monster should be 13 + one half the monster's level, or 16 + one half the monster's level if it governs the monster's primary attack. However, it doesn't tell you what the lowest scores should be.

Right now, I just find a monster in the D&D Monster Builder that looks about right for the role I want, strip out all of its powers, and then add in powers that I think are appropriate. However, I want to know how to do it from scratch. That way, I can better understand how to build my own without working off the backs of others.


I'm writing a story right now, and I have a character in it whose wife has just asked him for a divorce. Although I've had no problem understanding this character up to this point, I find I'm having difficulty getting into his head space now that the moment has finally arrived. Unfortunately, I don't know very many people my age who have gone through divorce, and the ones who have, I don't know very well, so I feel uncomfortable asking them about it.

That's why I'm turning to the boards. I figure there are at least a few of you who have been through divorce, and I'm hoping I can get your perspectives on it. Here are some questions I'm trying to grapple with right now.

What was your first thought after the divorce? Were you upset with yourself? Were you angry at your spouse? Did you fret about finances? Did you wonder about the future? Right now, I feel like my character is just surprised that life goes on. For example, he hears kids playing out in the street and he reflects on the incongruity of such joy contrasted against his own misery. At the same time, though, I'm having difficulty trying to figure out what happens next.

What was the first thing you did afterward? I feel like my character would call his buddy and want to get out of the house. However, I don't know what they do once they get out of the house. For example, what do they talk about? Personally, I'd just want to sit on my buddy's couch and talk for hours (it's what I do now when I get into an argument with my wife). However, my character who is going through the divorce also has a six month old kid, and kids typically don't sit still for long. Maybe they could go for a walk, or something. Hmm...

How did you and your spouse deal with the interim period between one or both of you moving out? How did you handle things like showers, meals, and TV? Personally, I can't imagine my character would want to spend much time with his wife after she told him she wants a divorce. However, when you share the same refrigerator with someone, it's hard to maintain your physical and/or emotional distance. That, to me, is probably the most confusing thing. How do these two characters interact with one another now that they're no longer a couple, but still living under the same roof?

Any thoughts that you're willing to share about these questions, or any personal stories you might want to share about your own experiences, would be a great help. Thanks.


Min/Maxing is so over done. I think it's time to start a new trend. In this thread, we will try to create the most underpowered character possible. Using 25 point buy, and any sourcebook you'd like, try and create the weakest 10th level character imagineable. Someone so weak, that they have trouble lifting the milk carton out of the fridge. Okay, go!


Two-Weapon Fighting (General)

You become more adept at fighting with a weapon in each hand. You can make one extra attack with the second weapon for each attack.

Prerequisite: Dex 15.

Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the penalty for your off hand lessens by 6.

Except when making attacks of opportunity, whenever you make an attack with you main hand, whether with a standard action or a full attack, you may make an attack with your offhand. These off-hand attacks suffer the same penalty as the main hand.

When making a standard attack with two weapons, you apply precision based damage (such as from sneak attack) to only one of the attacks.

Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.)

Special: A 2nd-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Two-Weapon Fighting, even if he does not have the prerequisite for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.


In case you don't know, the economic theories of Friedrich von Hayek and John Maynard Keynes are the ones that Republicans and Democrats frequently use (and often distort) to defend their own economic theories. For example, if you hear the Democrats talking about using defecit spending to boost the economy during a recession, they're paying homage to the theories proposed by Keynes. On the other hand, if you hear Republicans talking about free markets, and the dangers of government control over the economy, they're relying on theories promoted by Hyaek.

Spike TV recently put together a rap video of these two economic theorists. It's pretty old school. Check it out.

Fear the Boom and Bust


This is one of those things that has bothered me for years, but I have yet to get a definitive answer. I hope someone here can help me out.

The book says that crafting a construct is the same as crafting any other magic item. However, take a look at the clay golem. If you assume that it's a continuous magic item, with multiple abilities, its minimum price should be 421,500 gp (including the cost of the body). Yet the Monster Manual says 40,000 gp. So what's the deal? What am I missing?


"Topics That Don't Belong Anywhere Else" That's what it says at the top of the Off-Topic Board. I think that's discriminatory. Our topics belong here! They are positive, and fruitful (sometimes), and they don't deserve to be treated like outcasts. We need a different phrase to describe our off topics. Something that is less pejorative, and more... uplifting. The time for change is now! Who's with me? :D


Regardless of what your stance is on the current healthcare debate in the U.S., I think the following report, produced by NPR's "All Things Considered," requires a listen.

The Telltale Wombs of Lewistion, Maine

Note: I don't want this thread to turn into a debate about single payer heathcare plans. I also don't want it to turn into a debate about President Obama's proposals for a public option. This thread is dedicated solely to the discussion of waste in the current U.S. healthcare system, whether doctors should be paid on a fee-for-service basis, and/or whether the legislation currently being debated by the two houses can help prevent the kinds of unnecessary procedures mentioned in this report. If you want to debate single payer options, or President Obama's proposed public option, kindly take it somewhere else. Thanks.

Additional Note: Try to keep the discussion civil. :)


My wife and I are traveling up to Washington in late October. Since we're going to be in the area anyway, I was wondering if Paizo or Wizards do tours of their facilities. If they do, I was wondering if it costs anything, if I need to make an appointment, if there are fast pass kiosks that I need to be aware of, etc.

If anyone has any information that might prove useful, I'd appreciate it. Take care.


I am not a Creationist. I find the evidence for natural selection and a 5 billion year old earth much more compelling than the evidence for creationism and a 6,000 year old earth. I think the 'water canopy' theory used to explain Noah's flood is fallacious. I think the idea that Job 40:15-18 describes a dinosaur is ridiculous. If someone tells me that carbon dating showed an allosaurus bone to be much younger than 65 million years, I politely point out that carbon dating cannot be used to date objects older than 60,000 years.

On the other hand, I do not find Christianity, to be a threat to science. Pseudoscience wrapped in Christian trappings, yes, but not Christianity. A person can believe in God, yet accept that science can offer no proof of his existence. A person can accept the wisdom of Genesis, without believing in its literal truth.

The Bible describes faith as the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. If you cannot see God, then you cannot prove that he exists. That does not mean that you cannot accept the idea that science can prove other things. It simply means that you cannot use science to prove the existence of God. As long as you accept that fact, as long as you can accept that science cannot prove faith, then you can have faith in God and still accept the validity of science.

Yet many atheists seem to believe that religion is anathema to science. They seem to believe that people who believe in God do not, or cannot, accept the validity of science. I find fault with that line of reasoning. Just because you recognize that God cannot be proved by science, does not mean that you reject science's validity. Just because you find power and meaning in the written words of the Bible does not mean that you cannot feel awe and humility when gazing at the cosmos or studying nucleic acids. Science and religion both have power, they both have meaning, and just because they operate in separate spheres does not make one any more or less valid than the other.

I am a Buddhist. However, I don't believe that the Buddha's mother, Maya, was literally impregnated by a white elephant who entered her side. In fact, I question whether the Buddha's mother was even named 'Maya.' I understand that the elephant is a symbol of divine wisdom and truth. I also understand that the name 'Maya' is a Hindu word for illusion. I read this story metaphorically. I read it as saying truth impregnates and is born from illusion. What truth there is in that. How well it describes religion.

Yet many atheists cannot see this truth. They see the story, but they do not see the metaphors. As such, they see my faith as a delusion, a psychosis. They think I delude myself by finding meaning in the story. It reminds me of what Christ told his disciples when they asked him why he speaks in parables. He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'" (Mark 4:11-4:12)

Many atheists see the problems with religious fanaticism, but they often fail to see the problems with anti-religious fanaticism. They believe that atheism is enlightened, and that religion is not. They point to the atrocities of religion as evidence to support their claims. But they forget that it was atheists who exiled the Dalai Lama from Tibet. They forget that it was atheists who raised the Iron Curtain. In a debate with Christopher Hedges, called "Is God Great?" Christopher Hitchens, a well known spokesperson for atheism, said of the Iraq War, "[The soldiers in Iraq] are guarding you while you sleep, whether you know it or not. And they're also creating space for secularism to emerge, and you better hope that they are successful." I do not know what to think of the Iraq war, but I find the idea that it is some sort of crusade (and I use that word deliberately) for atheism to be a very chilling one indeed.

I am an agnostic. As such I think there are very good reasons to doubt the existence of God. I think there are very good reasons to doubt the existence of the supernatural. I cannot say definitively whether either exist, but I cannot say definitively that they do not exist either. I see both as not proved.

Yet many atheists and theists see this position as indecisive. They believe that the evidence is already there, and that I must accept one position or the other, or I am ignorant. I think that this is a flawed analysis. After all, we don't know everything. We don't know where matter comes from. We don't know if there are other universes. We don't know what dark matter is, and we don't know if there is life on other planets. With all of this ignorance, how can we say definitively, one way or another, about something as unknowable as God?

At the same time, I do not feel threatened by atheism. I do not feel threatened by theism. I cannot say that either is right, or either is wrong, because I have not had the same experiences as other people. I have never felt the power of God filling my heart. I have never seen conclusive proof that God does not exist. However, I do not doubt that people have religious experiences. I do not doubt that people find arguments against God's existence compelling. In some ways, I even envy people who have these experiences, because I imagine that such certainty is fulfilling.

I do not believe that an ideology should be judged by its zealots. I believe that all ideologies are only as enlightened as the people who espouse them. I think we need to recognize these truths, and not clutch so tightly to our own ideologies when we are confronted with ones that we don't understand. We need to listen, we need to be compassionate. That doesn't mean we can't speak out against bigotry, zealotry, or demagoguery. We just need to be aware of what we're saying, and not resort to these same tactics ourselves.* Otherwise, we become what we hate. We become the zealots that we wish to eradicate, and we fail to see the humanity that lies in all of us.

*I speak of me here too. :-)


Your fans and critics are filling up my favorite discussion board with too many memorial threads! That is all.


Why do they ask you to punch in your telephone number, medical record number, AAA membership number, etc., if they're just going to ask you for it when they get you on the phone?

Why do they interrupt the music every thirty seconds to tell you that their operators are still assisting other callers? The fact that you're listening to music, as opposed to actually talking to someone, should be a pretty good indication that you haven't been assisted yet.

When they give you nine different options to choose from, and none of those options are what you want, why is there never a tenth option to connect with an operator?

After you've successfully navigated your way through their automated voice system, why is it that some companies only pick up long enough to say, "Can you please hold?"

On that note, why do they ask you, "Can you please hold?" Like if you say "no," they're going to help you right there and then. Riiiiiight!

Anyway, these are things I wonder about whenever I get an automated answering system.


I'll admit it. I'm a literary snob. Every year, I read On Walden Pond, by Henry David Thoreau. My favorite author is John Fowles. I read Leo Tolstoy for fun. If I enjoy a book, I'll sometimes go to the library and look up literary essays on the subject. If I really enjoy a book, I'll sometimes write an essay of my own.

The thing is, I don't go around recommending that people read what I like to read. For example, I don't tell people that they need to read Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe. I recognize that what I read is not necessarily something that other people are likely to read or enjoy.

Also, I don't get offended when people say they don't like what I read. For example, I don't get all huffy when my friends say they can't get through Schopenhauer's The World as Will and Representation. I recognize that it's a dense text, and it's not to everyone's liking.

That's why I don't understand people who get all upset when I say I don't like fantasy. Seriously, I've read enough fantasy to know that I don't like the genre. That doesn't mean I look down on the people who do like it, and it doesn't mean that I think they should stop reading it. It just means that I don't like it myself.

Now of course, there are exceptions. For example, I enjoy Tolkien's writing, I like The Neverending Story, and I love Neil Gaiman's Stardust. However, as much as I can appreciate the quality of writing in an author like Ursula K. Leguin, I just can't get into her writing. To me, the fantasy in her stories is just way too high to suspend my disbelief for long.*

And that's Ursula K. Leguin! A lot of fantasy authors, I find, just aren't good authors. They write formulaic stories, with shallow characters, and they use a vocabulary that's aimed at somewhere around 5th grade. That's not to say that I think there's something wrong with people who like that sort of thing. Some people prefer stories with great plot over great character development. However, that's just not my cup of tea.

Also, it's not like fantasy novels are the only thing I don't like. For example, I don't like romance novels, either. However, people don't give me a hard time because I won't read Sandra Brown's latest romance novel. They only give me a hard time when I won't read R.A. Salvatore's. Seriously, am I not allowed to say that I don't like something without people acting like I'm throwing down some gauntlet in the name of literary integrity.?

Just because I won't read the Wheel of Time series at your recommendation, does not mean I look down on your reading, or think that my reading habits are better than yours. It just means that I have enough experience with the fantasy genre to know that I probably won't enjoy it, any more than you're likely to enjoy Rene Girard's essay, "Triangular Desires of Don Quixote."

And just for the record, I absolutely despise anyone who says that I can't read for enjoyment. I'm sorry, but I don't read Dante's Inferno in order to torture myself. I read it because I enjoy it. So let me read what I want to read without feeling guilty about not reading what you want me to read.

End of rant.

*Note: I don't know why I find LeGuin's fantasy harder to swallow than Tolkien's. I just do.


I just want to say thank you for providing such an amazing web-based community. Seriously, I can't tell you how nice it is to talk again with people who enjoy the same game I do, and not have it turn into an argument. I also think it's amazing how I can discuss other issues I'm passionate about (like politics, science, and religion) with people in the Off-Topic forums and not have it erupt into a flame-war. Finally, I think it's great how active you all are in the web-based community. The fact that you take the time to answer questions, address concerns, and take feedback into serious consideration, makes me feel like you are doing everything you can to make the game that we all enjoy even better. Thank you.


An interesting article on using Wikipedia to teach writing. Thoughts?


I'm honestly not sure why they didn't change this when they came out with 3.5. After all, they changed the name of teleport without error to greater teleport. Why didn't they change the name of this spell as well?

However, let's not dwell on the past. The future is now, and it's name is greater darkness! That is all.


The modules are pretty explicit about the fact that the Blessed Angels are not Kyuss's minions(which is why the are unaffected by Manzorian's dimensional lock on the city). However, it's not really clear why they've chosen to work for Lashonna or, by extension, Kyuss?

So what do you think their motivation is in all of this? Why would a lawful evil race dedicated to harvesting souls for use in the Blood War want to release a chaotic evil god dedicated to destroying all life? It seems a little counterintuitive, don't you think?

I'm asking this question more because I'm trying to write them into my own epic continuation of the Age of Worms campaign. I do have some of my own ideas, of course. However, I'm curious to know what others think. Let me know.


A player in my group has this item, and I have to say, it's a real headache to deal with. Here are some of my problems with it.

-While the item restricts players' movement, it doesn't really matter. My players get together inside the 10-foot cube, one of them casts dimension door, and they all move across the battle field to where they want to go before unloading.

-The item is way too useful. All it takes is one standard action and suddenly, the players are all but invincible against my monsters' most potent attacks.

-There's almost nothing I can do to shut it down. Granted, 30 points of damage takes off one charge, and spells, like disintegrate take off 6. However, when the item has 36 charges, and it only takes 6 charges to activate the item's most powerful ability, even if I have a sorcerer casting disintegrate every round, and two golems doing 30 points of damage each round, that's still 4 rounds where my monsters are completely ineffective. Meanwhile, my players are either busy spelling up inside the cube, or busy killing my monsters off, so I can't spend the entire combat beating on the cube until it comes down, even if I wanted to.

-The item is way too cheap for what it does. For 62,000 gp the player can be immune to damage from all magical attacks, all nonlinving matter, all living matter, or just plain everything. Compare that to a robe of eyes, which costs 120,000 gp, and grants the user darkvision 120 ft, a +10 bonus to Perception checks, some rogue abilities, and has the downside that a player can't avert their eyes from gaze attacks.

So I'm asking people, how do you deal with it? To me, this item seems to be artifact level, and yet it's something that any reasonably high level PC can afford quite easily. Meanwhile, I've tried throwing everything I can think of at this thing, from beholders, to undead, to purple worms, to giant spellcasters, and nothing even phases it. Help!


This isn't a request to revisit the power level of the spell. I have no problem with the power level of this spell, either in 3.5 or in Pathfinder. What I have a problem with is how this spell works mechanically.

Personally, I think the mechanics of this spell are too complicated. I used this spell once in 3.5, and it took about twenty to thirty minutes to resolve its effects as players rolled for every item, and struggled to understand the rules for magic item saving throws. Granted, I haven't had any experience using this spell in Pathfinder, but mechanically, the spell isn't that much different, so I don't really think that matters.

Here are some ideas that I think should be discussed.

-The rules for magic item saving throws need to be revisited and made simpler. As is, it's a real pain when players with low Will saves have to look up the caster level of every single magic item on their character sheet in order to determine whether their personal saving throws are higher than their magic items.

-The spell should disjoin all spells, consumable items, and unattended magic items automatically. Permanent magic items must make their saves individually or be disjoined.

-The spell should disjoin all spells automatically. All magic items must make a d% roll equal to the spell's caster level or be disjoined.

-The spell disjoins all spells and unattended magic items automatically. Attended items must make a Will save equal to their owner's or be disjoined.

Now I'm sure there are other ideas about how this spell could work, many of which are better than the ones presented here. I'm also sure there are people who think there's nothing wrong with the way the spell works now, and that's fine. However, I think the rules for this spell should at least be reexamined, even if the final decision is to leave things the way they are.


Shoot! I meant to make Cheat Death a general feat for the boards. I made it epic for my game because, well, it's an epic level game.

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Or maybe give rogues the ability? At level 1?

Because Stealth was so good in PF1 apparently.

Let's not forget that you, unlike the errata added into PF1, you now need to be in cover or concealment at all points of movement or you aren't stealthed. It's completely useless in all regards now.

I've had a simple wish since the beginning of PF1. If you beat your opponent's perception with your stealth, why can't we just say their back is turned? Stealth was bad in PF1, now it's a dead skill.

EDIT: Someone else pointed out in another thread that you have to make a stealth check every time you use sneak, and that's true whether it's multiple in the same turn or across different turns. Even a legendary stealther WILL fail over time. That one rogue feat becomes mandatory.

I'm not exaggerating at all. I'm playing Doomsday Dawn part 1 as a rogue right now and I feel like dropping out.

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Sub_Zero wrote:
Yes, I will call improved feint a trap. Improved feint requires a move action, which means you can only do it during times that you could have full attacked.

Why would you full attack if you aren't getting sneak attack in? With 3 iteratives that's 3d6 and let's say a +4 weapon, that's a very idealistic (hitting with a +1 BAB on that last iterative) 22 damage at level 15. We were doing more damage at level 5. With improved feint, you are doing 35 damage. Which is certainly not as good as a full attack with SA, with an ideal damage of 106 before TWF. And I don't want it to seem like I think TWF is vital or anything, cause I really don't believe that, but the fantasy projection there is 212 damage. Now 35 ain't 106 (or a more realistic 71), but it's still better than 22. Back at level 5, that's comparing our 14 damage with improved feint to a TWF full attack without SA at 7 damage. Double the damage for half the attacks! Why would you turn down that option? Then there's that other reason that a Rogue should always want to sneak attack; the rogue talent that always somehow gets forgotten when people are gushing about beast totem. Offensive defense gives the Rogue a +3-8 AC bonus in these calculations. So why would you ever CHOOSE not to sneak attack if you had the chance?

Quote:
Actually the bard isn't married to his routine, and the fact that you put this situation in such a rogue favored situation amuses me. The fact that the rogue can be on par with another class only when you stack the situation in their favor is a good indicator that it needs some work.

You think THIS situation is stacked in the Rogue's favor? You're the one who stipulated that these calculations use feint every round. You're the one who used a self-serving archetype to pump up your damage and to-hit, when a regular Bard could have increased his damage, the Rogue's damage, and the Fighter's damage. YOU set the terms, I just played them out as realistically as possible.

In any real fight, we'd have flanked that foe and I'd be getting even more damage per turn through TWF.

Quote:
If this battle had been the party getting the drop on a group, the bard would have pre-buffed himself, no need to waste that during round 0 or round 1.

Totally predicted this. So let me get this straight; while my Rogue is trying his hardest to sneak up on a guy, you are gonna start dancing a jig just past the doorway, then cast a verbal spell (and let's hope you aren't singing, cause dancing isn't actually a requirement of battle dance), all of which could blow my cover? Let's hope you at least wait to cast the verbal spell until the surprise round, which still leaves the problem of having to move more than 5 feet.

Yeah you're right, maybe you should adapt and use a different spell. I would suggest glitterdust. With the opponent blind, I can drop them pretty much by myself, and it will still have been a team effort. No one feels left out, no one needs to measure dicks.

Now I could wait until my next gaming session and grab that Rogue's sheet, cause he's certainly doing a damn fine job even with a few odd talents like Minor and Major Magic. But until then, all you need is the list of ways to get sneak attack that I already posted. Incorporate at least 8 of them into any build and you'll probably do fine.

Even the "Bard will be a better skill monkey" is highly debatable. If you started a game at Level 18, the Bard would certainly be better. The trouble is getting there. A good Rogue will have 9 skills ranks per level at level 1, and between 10-11 by the end. There's a front loaded simplicity to it. The Bard will have 6-7 skill ranks, and he'll want a headband of cha more than a headband of int. So he has to rely on versatile performance. And while I love this bard class feature, it is a slow journey requiring a lot of patience. You have to plan in advance which skills you want, and until you hit level 6, 10, as high as 14 (seriously just pretend versatile performance 5 doesn't exist unless you really want to spend money on a Cha/Int headband), you are sitting on skills that do nothing but make small change on the street. At level 1, a Bard might have almost no useful skills at all. Hell, even choosing which VP you want at level 2 is really annoying. Only dance gives acrobatics, which is vital, but then you're a bard with no face skills until level 6. So once you've chosen 3-4 skill ranks to be dead for half an AP, you have 2-4 skill ranks left to ration between 6 good knowledges that you'll be wasting class bonuses on if you neglect. Oops, forgot to mention perception, stealth, UMD, and disable device (the last of which you won't even get a favored class bonus on).

This isn't all to say that Bard is a bad skill monkey. It is a great skill monkey. It's just not "obviously better" than the Rogue.

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Sub_Zero wrote:
Improved feint is a trap feat. Getting a single attack during a sneak attack is a terrible way to do damage. Especially if you're using a rapier with weapon finesse. That tells me that your strength is probably no higher then 14, which means you're damage will be awful. In addition you only get to use this trick during a full attack.

Are you seriously going to stand here and call Improved Feint a trap feat when you use Weapon Specialization? This and your STR obsession tells me you are a little too fixated on numbers and not interested enough in diversity and tactics. Of course feinting is never as good as being able to get an iterative in while flanking or greater invisible, but here's a key fact of life in PF; just because you have iteratives doesn't mean you are gonna be attacking the enemy multiple times. Hell, it's a fundamental argument in threads complaining about the Monk.

The thing is that feinting is better than not getting a sneak attack in at all. Rogue even from a character stand point is all about being underhanded and resourceful to even the odds. Even a Fighter, who also believe has to be resourceful, will still largely come down to projected numbers, but with a Rogue there is so much more than just theorycrafting. Your tactical acumen will determine your realistic damage output.

Quote:

Rogue Attack: 3 (bab) + 4 (dex, I'm assuming this is your primary stat)+ 3 (opponents denied dex bonus)= 10 (not to shabby)

Bard Attack: 3 (bab) + 4 (dex) + 4 (bard song)+1 (allegro)= 12 (better attack that isn't situational)

Rogoue Damage: 1d6 (rapier)+ 3d6 (sneak) + 2 (strength, assuming it's this high)= 16 per attack

Bard Damage:2 attacks that both deal: 1d6 (scimitar) + 4 (dex) + 4 (bard song) = 11.5 per hit/ 23 average

Don't forget that you are spending a full round to get that Inspire Courage + Allegro up.

Turn 1: Bard buffs (and buffs only himself, the greedy git). Rogue hits opponent for 14 (he's using either a shortbow or a rapier depending on the situation, as you'll see soon).

Rogue 14, Bard 0.

Turn 2: Bard walks more than 5 feet, so gets only one attack for 11 damage. Rogue gets 14 more in.

Rogue 28, Bard 11.

Turn 3: Well the fight is probably over, but if not the Bard gets 23 more damage in and the Rogue gets 14.

Rogue 42, Bard 34.

Oh shoot, did we forget Turn 0? We don't always get a Turn 0, but any Rogue worth his salt will often enough open with a sneak attack out of stealth. 14 more damage.

Rogue 58, Bard 34. Enemy superdead. What was our Fighter even doing? Is he drunk again?

Now I will freely admit that this is ONE way the fight could go for are Rogue. It could go worse, but it could also have gone better (we assumed he only ever got in one attack with feint because the guy playing this Bard wouldn't flank). But the Bard on the other hand is married to his routine, while a Rogue should have various resources to try and turn each encounter into an optimal one. It won't happen every time, but who wants one player to always be the center of attention?

In the end, I feel that the Rogue suffers the same problem the Fighter does. They both require, nay, EXCELL with a level of tactical acumen and diversity that people oddly don't really associate with the classes. Rogue is "urg, meat grinder" like it is in so many video games, and Fighter is "am good weapons at". Throw on those Fighter feats, cause that's the important part right? Not the exponential advantage of having more than double the feats most classes get.

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What he's saying is that BAB 20s very often find themselves in fights where they have a >75% chance to hit on their first attack. In these fights BAB 15s certainly aren't hosed, and a good rogue has ways to even the odds (see above, I even missed a few like blindness).

Then some fights aren't as good for Rogues, but then again some fights aren't easy for Fighters, some aren't even easy for Clerics and Wizards.

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As a GM, my experience is this;

If you are getting in one sneak attack per turn, you are doing it right.
If you are getting in more than one sneak attack, you are pissing me off.

...

My rogue pisses me off a lot ("don't worry, I'll only use dust of disappearance on bosses :X ").

Let me the count the ways you can sneak attack

1. Use the 10 feet of speed you have over your fighter buddy to flank
2. Use acrobatics to flank
3. Use a reach weapon to flank
4. Attack while invisible (bonus points for greater invisibility)
5. Feint
6. Win initiative (aggravatingly easier done than said)
7. Get a surprise attack by bluffing
8. Get a surprise attack with disguise
9. Get a surprise attack using the revised stealth rules that everyone should have always been using anyway but apparently mostly weren't
10. Use stealth in combat anyway
11. Do #10 using bluff
12. Do #4-#11 from the cozy distance 30 feet with a ranged attack

And those are just the ways that every rogue should be able to exploit. Don't even get me started on things like Phantasm Wizard allies.

IMO, it's way harder for NPCs to be successful Rogues than it is for players to be.

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HOW is it a balancing thing? Explain that? How is it balancing that spells made to affect players and player analogues, does not in this case?

Who was inventing Tiefs and said "you know what would sure make Tiefs better and worse for no real net change? make them only outsider." Was it the same guy who had non-class skills ranking up half as fast? Or the guy who worded polymorph spells as vaguely as possible?

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First of all, I'm well aware that I can do whatever I want when I'm the GM for a home game. There are three reasons I'm bringing this issue up;

1. I can find no official answer.
2. It's a problem that has come to a head to in my gaming circle (where I am not the only GM).
3. It's an especially annoying dealbreaker.

I've seen players and GMs weigh in on this issue. Odds are I will probably see the some of the exact same people say the same things that I have seen in other topics. This is not going to assuage me, but by all means make those posts. And while you are at it, please FAQ this topic.

What I WANT is an official answer either A; taking into account the following, convincing me exactly WHY things work they are written and that it was intended, or B; listen to my complaints. I know people were heard when they complained about Tief ages (and thanks for that).

I'm talking about any spell or effect that affects humanoids but does not affect Tieflings or other player characters. At least for Tiefs, and by extension Aasimar, I find this to be a grievous oversight when it comes to the flavor of the species. Tieflings are not even necessarily half outsider (as is the case with a certain CoT character), most have ancestral blood and by player fiat could have as weak a bloodline as sorcerers do. So they are often more human than Half-Elves or Half-Orcs, but not from a RAW standpoint? For instance; my main is a Tiefling who absolutely refuses to acknowledge that she isn't human. She's in denial to be sure, but, she shouldn't effectively be a monster. I'll walk away from any table where she isn't a humanoid, and no, I don't rely on Enlarge Person or anything like that. It just screams to me that it's an outstanding oversight, like the ages nonsense, that for Tiefs to be Outsiders it has to be at the exclusion of being Humanoid. Again, Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are still human, in spite of having typically less human blood than Tieflings. Cause that's the classic character struggle right? Being a child of two worlds, just like Mr. Spock. Being BOTH. And for a Tiefling doubly so, as they might not even want anything to do with their other heritage. Certainly in the world of Golarion this leads to many being racist against Tiefs, same with Half-Elves and Half-Orcs. But the difference is that it is effectively JUSTIFIED racism, that Tiefs AREN'T humanoid, AREN'T human.

Ok, so not everyone is going to play their Tiefling the same way. And how does this affect things like Ifrits, Fetchlings, and Kitsune? Oh wait, Kitsune are Shapechangers AND humanoids, my bad, guess that's what they call an easy solution. Ok but how does it affect non-humanoids in general if people don't care about flavor? Well, it kind flies in the face of basic game balance in general. Charm Person is a level 1 spell. It can be pretty good, even battle ending. It has its drawbacks to be sure. Like that +5 bonus to the save, or the need to make opposed Cha to get them to do anything really significant. Oh and it also only affects humanoids. So it won't always be useful. But it's only a Level 1 spell. So later you get a better version that affects anything. There are many spells with this sort of balancing factor, like Daze. But it begs the question; why humanoids? Well, there are several generalizations that come with humanoids. For starters, they are mooks. Charm Person won't hit that dragon, or those will-o-wisps, or that end of campaign lich, but it will hit the rank and file bandits that tried to mug you at level 1. Second, humanoids are generally defined by class levels. Third, you can usually count on your party being humanoid. Charm Person might be situational, but you can usually come to PFS with Enlarge Person prepared. Then you are fighting for your life in a potential TPK with 3 Aasimar Fighters as allies. Whoops! It may have been one thing (arguable) when Tiefs were the bad guys, but now that they are playable it just makes no sense that they can't be affected by spells balanced to affect Players, things defined by class levels, and to a degree mooks (I've seen a LOT of Tiefling mooks in my time).

I realize Tiefs as outsiders only is pre-PF. But I wouldn't love PF as much as I do if it didn't routinely slap some sense into the absurdity that is 3.x (seriously, try rereading those old books without facepalming).

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On the subject of coup de graces, again, Paladins can serve up to 7 different gods with wildly different ideals.

I feel a Paladin of Sarenrae would never coup, because any evil foe is an opportunity for redemption. On the other hand, Erastil is a hunter and Iomedae a warrior. Both are not strangers to killing your foes. Erastil out of a mixture mercy and judgement, and Iomedae for the pragmatism involved in keeping evil out of this world. Abadar represents societal law, and so his Paladins could occasionally take the role of executioners.

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How could the Paladin's code possibly not be vague when a Paladin can worship 7 different gods (+ Asmodeus Pf #26 September 2009 never forget!)

I thrive on making Paladins that are a bit messed up.

I play one in PFS that prayed his whole life only to get a wasting sickness. Now he wants the glory and success he's seen other Paladins have. I call this scenario Breaking Neutral.

I have a polytheistic Paladin that worships all seven gods.

I have a Paladin who acts like The Dude and, while being a good Paladin, treats it like a job "we can't kill these prisoners. hey c'mon don't be like that, it's my job maaaaan"

I have a girl who was raised from childhood to become a Paladin. But she doesn't want to be a Paladin. Secretly, she wants to be a DANCER.