Dexter Dunbar's page

Mass combat can and should be as tactical and satisfying as operating an individual character. I have seen and used it successfully in the Song of Ice and Fire RPG so I know it can be done. I love the Pathfinder system more than any RPG system out there.

The only area where Pathfinder feels neglected is in Mass Combat in my opinion. If there is not a good mass combat mechanic yet then it is neither the fault of tabletop gaming nor the fault of the Pathfinder system. There is a perfectly understandable absence of effort at this point. I think Paizo has the minds to do it successfully and so does the Paizo community.

I was in between on isolating the appropriate stat for the modifier or using all three. I think you may perhaps be correct.

Ex. Inspire Unit=BCB+INT+UL+Misc opposed by DC determined by unit morale

Detect Ambush=BCB+WIS+UL+Misc opposed by ambushing unit stealth dc

Perform phalanx=BCB+INT+UL+Misc opposed by DC determined by unit morale

I was also thinking instead of HP your unit has troop lives. The number of lives lost increases morale DC. Militia morale DC +5 per 10 soldiers lost, Experienced +3, and Veteran +1

Shooting from the hip is fine in more traditional campaigns, but mass combat is highly important in my games due to my tendency to run George RR Martin esque campaigns.

@Sethizar Thanks for the swarm idea. I wasn't looking at simply making this a you roll you win concept. I want mass combat to be equally as dynamic as regular combat with legit choices, tactics and involvement from players.

I was thinking that a similar system to Combat Maneuvers would work. This means manufacturing a Base Command Bonus then plugging it into Mass Combat Maneuver Bonus (BCB+INT+WIS+CHA+Unit level+Misc). Mass Combat Maneuver Defense is 10+INT+WIS+CHA+Unit level+Misc)

Command range is 50 ft radius during combat.

Is this idea worth refining or is it a bad concept? Any advice or criticism is welcome.

First and foremost let me start by saying that I am a big fan of the Pokemon series because I like the idea of capturing and evolving a creation with some serious sacrifices for each character. I additionally like the strengths and weaknesses portion (fire type is weak to water, water weak to electric etc.) I was working on a new campaign when I switched to Pokemon and then began brainstorming a tamer class.

I was thinking this would be a Wisdom based class. I did want to make it fantasy campaign appropriate, which means that when a wild Hydra attacks you can't throw a ball and capture them. I was thinking more along the lines that you had something tangible that may contain the essence of a simple creature that you develop. For an attack list I was thinking that this creature could only master 4 moves, but none higher than the creatures level. I think the creature should have a seperate XP bank as well.

In terms the development of ones creature I was thinking along that the creature would have a simple form like a simple blob to begin, but the PC would develop it by successfully capturing slain foes essence. Perhaps the PC or GM could attach appearance of these foes to the PC's creature as well as a one of four magic type spells. For example a level 10 PC creature may successfully capture the essence of a fallen troll and pick up a regeneration spell. If the physical features were emulated then perhaps the creature could become simian in appearance.

This idea may merely be the senseless marriage of a bunch of things that I enjoy, but if anybody can collaborate and help me further develop this idea into something a little more refined with respect to the Pathfinder RPG I would greatly appreciate it. I will try to keep track of any help and us it to assemble something more organized than this brainstorm. I greatly appreciate any advice or input that anybody gives me on the idea in advance.

Normally, to get to the point of playing games like yours, a group must mature by playing games more similar to those recommended in the GMG. Most players do not deal well with intra-party conflict. Most do not do well with the boredom inherent in a divided party. Most do not do well with their PCs dying. It takes time to become comfortable with the respective members and play-styles to move beyond these reactions.

Your players are no different, save that they have acheived the maturity needed to look past those negatives and find positives they can enjoy. You have an excellent group, be thankful. Perhaps you have always played in this manner, from the beginning of your gaming history. In which case, congratulations, that is something that rarely happens. Most people need to work to such a level, through time, personaly maturation, or playing with different people.

You have an good group, that can play together at a point most "average" groups (if there is such a thing) can not while remaining cohesive. Good for you.

I will no longer post in this thread, as the obvious and intentional word choices and phrasings you have used make it plain to me that you are either trolling or self-aggrandizing, and I have no desire to play a part in either activity.

I have no idea why you deferred to declaring I was trolling or self aggrandizing by writing a piece describing why I run campaigns that differentiate from the recommendations in the Gamemastery Guide. I suppose you have drawn your conclusions by my attempt at making a semi interesting thread title or describing how my players like rules that contradict the Gamemastery Guide, but as a GM you are only as good as your least interested player. I have players routinely lined up to enjoy my campaigns and have others in wait should a spot come open. The demand is not egocentrism or an attempt to bolster my status. The demand for my campaigns is because I defy the traditional implementation of rules and use compelling storytelling, which my players love.

Additionally, you imply that boredom is inherent with players because they can look past the negative. I have played in campaigns where I have been attached to the groups at all times in D&D 2e, 3.5, M&M 1e, M&M 2e etc. and found I was more bored when forced to submit to the will of others and have my influence contained within the parameters of the story. My group contains players of all experience levels ranging from their first campaign to 15+ years experience and they have all agreed that having a liberated approach is the best means of playing.

The problem for players when it comes to PC death and split parties is that they are often disinterested in the story or other elements. Can your players not enjoy cinema or a novel because they lack influence over a particular scenario? Wouldn't watching these other pieces of drama color the world you are participating in? If you run a game as specified by my alternative approach along with great story telling then your players will feel like they are embarking on a journey through a novel or a great piece of cinema wherein they can influence and control a key character in the story. Consequently, there are no dull moments because everybody has an interesting character that no matter the consequence is interesting to anybody watching/participating.

I would like to thank TriOmegaZero for the link. That was nice.

Who are you defying? No one is telling you how to play your game.

You may as well be shouting at the tide.

I was actually declaring that I was defiant of the advice in the Gamemastering Guide, which is a recent addition to my collection. I apologize for any confusion in the matter. I know nobody is telling me how to play the game, but I was sharing my experiences on the matter. Perhaps I may be "shouting at the tide," but perhaps there are those with whom my piece of writing may encourage that feels that they are compelled to comply with many of the writings contained within the Gamemastering Guide in order to run an effective campaign. Additionally, I was aiming to have a civil discussion about some of the effective ways others bend the rules to their players satisfaction.

I read through the Gamemastery Guide and recycled memories of various RPG's that I participated in before and realized I break the unwritten rules and etiquette. The strange thing about this is my players love it. All of them have closed their minds and refuse to play in some of the more traditional ways.

One of my most egregious offenses is that I do nothing to steer my players resulting in divided factions and a divided party. Intraparty conflict is frequent within my group and every player loves it. I spare them the generic inclusions in the campaign and make their entrances dynamic and their conflict genuine. Why would a human outsider trust a Nosferatu or an Orc? Many GM's cleverly try to resolve this issue, but I let the role play handle it. It would not be uncommon in one of my campaigns when the time is right for a PC to attack and possibly even kill another PC or the party to battle amongst themselves, but this only builds on the tension and drama of the story.

One of the implied consequences of a divided party is player boredom, but I segment the story and devote equal timeshare. Using dynamic storytelling and applied game mechanics I find the players are as captivated by every PC's stories as much as their own. By their own admission my players declare that my campaigns break down like something akin to George RR Martin's Game of Thrones where you have compelling stories weaved from a series of interconnecting plots ultimately unfolding a grand plot. When I look at my sidelined PC(s) they give the active player his time and they discuss it. All of my players feel empowered as a result. Although at times I can be managing several different story arcs in a session I thoroughly grasp the world and translate that to the story. The only downside to my tactics is that I had to turn players away as it got to a point where I would have had double digit frequent players and simply could not comfortably accommodate that many guests.

Another instance of my different approach to GMing is I pull no punches and spare no players. Some GM's do this, but it is common to have a GM work to quickly restore a PC immediately after resolving a conflict or event resulting in that PC's demise. I will do no such thing and death is a real part in my game. I cheer for my players to win, but I run the events as the fortune of dice coupled with the tactics of a player let them unfold (and as a compliment to the guide I do not let them see their hp, which adds great drama). My group as a result loves combat. They respect each adversary and their realization of mortality makes them role play in a literary way as opposed to a mathematical way. Death does not ostracize my players as much as it opens the window to the realm of possibilities for the future of the story (i.e. the fallout of the death, who will be affected most, who stands to gain, what butterfly effect will this have on the future of the campaign etc.). In the place of a fallen player stand a new unique character unlike any the PC's have encountered that will bend the fates of the game and decide the outcome of the future.

I will never pigeon hole a player nor will I dictate their actions sans thwarting metagaming. There is no deus ex machina in my campaigns. I will never defy the results of the dice. Nor will I ever ignore the intentions of a PC. As a result I break quite of bit of the advice from the Gamemastery Guide, but before I go labeling myself rebellious I do submit to the number one rule, which is to enjoy the game.

I can't thank Paizo enough for all this game has given me. I do at times take liberties and rewrite some character stats to adjust their role in my sand box world. I run this game every Friday for about 10+ hours (Running for about 2 years) and I am captivated. I have made several new friends from my campaigns and everybody always wants to come visit for the sessions. My players ask good questions and discuss the game through the week. This is especially good for me because as a business professional I am forced to travel every day, which consequently limits my human interaction to many things like logistics and marketing initiatives when I would much rather be resolving/observing a conflict in a fantasy realm.

I enjoy this more than reading a novel, playing a game and/or going to the cinema. My players agree. I am always amazed at the drama, the problem solving, the twists etc. and I run the game. I wanted to use this thread discussing the healthy addiction to Pathfinder to simply issue thanks to Paizo for enriching the lives of the many that are fortunate enough to have the opportunity to enjoy your outstanding products.

Okay so I got the Pathfinder books. Studied the system and began with the free campaign Horror at Dagger Rock before starting with one of the other adventure books. We've only played for about 9-10 hours, but my players are freaked out, don't trust anybody but a map maker and are feeling that the task at hand may be too much for them to overcome. Best of all they love it and have been talking about it all week with eachother.

I have two players of the five in my group that were foolish enough to be poisoned at the Black Skull Inn and now find themselves captured and shackled in a cart heading south to the mines. It is in continuity with the canon that these players would be led to the bride of Dagon where they would be charmed and made to drink from the hags spawning pool. I don't want any Gods in the machine kind of stuff to free them, but something needs to happen within the story so as not to spoil the last fight or perhaps not. Any suggestions?

This information has been extremely helpful. I am infinitely grateful for all the tips, links and the books referenced thus far. Thank you all. I am anxious to receive my orders. I doubt will be able to receive the PDF's because I ordered through Amazon, which is not a big deal as my work will have me dispatched all week anyways. I am due for quite a bit of reading though after my RPG group completes our Friday night campaign.

Thank you for the advice. I just purchased the Rule of Fear book. I almost never go PDF as there is just something about having a the book in hand that I enjoy thoroughly. Outside of the "need" category are there any other titles that I should get to maximize this campaign?

I just purchased the Pathfinder series and plan on running the Carrion Crown books. So far I have purchased
1. The Core Rulebook
2. Bestiary 1
3. Bestiary 2
4. Advanced Player Guide
5. Ultimate Magic
6. The Carrion Crown 1-5
7. The always necessary GM screen.

Do I need any other books like Rule of Fear to run this campaign to it's fullest?