Dalebert's page

You could certainly make the case, strictly per RAW, that the feather fall requires a standard action as a hex since it doesn't specify otherwise but I would hope DMs would rule otherwise because it seems ridiculous. I also would hope Paizo would release an update to specify otherwise.

Magic jar can definitely affect sentient undead. They have a life force that is powered by negative energy rather than positive. The spell addresses it specifically. The only question is whether possess undead can affect them because it only affects her "minions". Is the spell effect described by command undead sufficient to call something that?

Let's say it does. Then is it treated as an attack, thereby breaking her control? Does it attack her the moment the possession ends? That would make this hex particularly impractical to use to say the least.

You wouldn't even want it to proc automatically because you only have a certain number of HD. You need to decide whether to use it on a new undead and potentially free something else by going over. I'm sure you get to decide what to release.

A spell list refers the list of spells available to your class. Your personal spells are your "spells known". Spell trigger items (wands but not scrolls) can be used without a UMD check for any spell on the spell list for your class. Just give him this link.

These are the ambiguities I was talking about.

1) Aura of desecration modifies energy channeling. If bonethrall mimics the feat, it would qualify. If it's like a spell, then Gravewalker's can't channel energy. Why not just skip this and put its range limit on bonethrall and possess undead?
2) Possess undead is like magic jar which doesn't work on mindless undead, but if a witch does this to a "minion" that she doesn't actually control (only commands like the spell), then it will likely break her control immediately after and attack her.
3) If command undead is what makes an undead her minion, then she can have lots of minions that are susceptible to her possess undead by casting that spell; not just her pool of HD from bonethrall. I think they intend it to work only on those she actually controls, and that kind of control requires the effect of the feat.

Dammit! I asked a couple months ago on the boards about how to be able to start a character off at 1st level with the ability to have an undead minion and nobody mentioned this Archetype....this is frickin' perfect for the character I had in mind.

Actually, it's easier to make a negative energy channeling cleric with the Command Undead feat. And the Undead Lord variant lets you have an extra zombie or skeleton up to your lvl in HD, though I don't think it's worth what you give up. Even if they fix this, the Gravewalker won't compete with a cleric who can control as many undead with one feat. Also, unless they change the wording, the Undead Master feat will boost a cleric's HD pool by 4 HD but not the Gravewalker's bonethrall so clerics still tend to be better in most ways.

I made a first level magician (bard) using Hero Lab. They get half their level as a bonus to spellcraft and use magic device. Half of 1 is .5 which rounds down to 0 but I still got +1.

I wonder if this is an exception and it just has a minimum bonus of 1 and it would round down at future levels. I don't know. I like it though because this is the only level I'm taking as a bard.

If he really thought ahead, he might even have hired a tailor to sew a spare set of lock picks into the cuff of his sleeve or something. His cuffs might be designed with hard ridges going all the way around in order to hold their shape so the picks just blend right in. Lock picks are pretty small already. Arguably, a little creativity like that could give him bonuses.

This is why prisons strip people completely nekkid and then do some really intrusive and uncomfortable searches. You can always have them specify what they're actually searching and if you know where he hid it and they fail to search a, uhm... *blush* particular place, it doesn't matter how high they roll.

Oh, and if the players specify that they take and swap out all of his clothes, and he hid something in a fold somewhere, now he has to make a sleight of hand to get it out as they're stripping him and he might have even made it harder to do by hiding it so well in the first place.

Exactly. With that fix in place, it's exactly what I'm looking for. I've always liked a cleric's ability to control undead but I also love the witch concept and I'm already playing a cleric in another game (whom I'm love). Without the fix, the archetype would be broken. It wouldn't get any useful control over intelligent undead. I would just play a regular witch and take the plague patron and animate dead and not have to give up a familiar and three hexes.

The new, much simpler question has been posted. I appreciate any votes to add it to the FAQ. It could resolve SO MUCH confusion.

Bonethrall: The description of this ability matches nearly verbatim the cleric feat called command undead but it links to a spell of the exact same name--command undead, but which is extremely different and doesn't appear to be in line with the rest of the Gravewalker archetype. Is this a mis-link?

If so, it resolves a lot of ambiguity about their other abilities: aura of desecration and possess undead.

I think I can simplify this. I'm 99% sure they mis-linked command undead incorrectly in the bonethrall description. I suspect they meant to link to the cleric feat by the exact same name command undead. That would resolve all the ambiguity and aura of desecration would actually be useful when it wasn't otherwise.

Unfortunately, it won't let me edit my original post anymore to simplify it. Actually, with this new realization, it probably justifies a new thread.

Really? But they actually link the specific spell. The spell is better because it's 1 day / lvl before they would break out of it, no additional saves. Unless they're very weak compared to you, most undead would make a save before then.

Actually, I think it all comes down to one question.

Unlike the creations of standard necromancers, a gravewalker's creations remain forever tied to her will

Did you mean for bonethrall to act like a long-lasting control undead? Because that is strongly implied by the above statement.Bonethrall says it's like command undead. Otherwise Gravewalkers have no powers to live up to the statement above because any necromancer can animate dead that remain forever tied to their will.

Also, the rest of the text is very confusing if that is not the case.

The description leaves many things unclear and raises many questions.

Unlike the creations of standard necromancers, a gravewalker's creations remain forever tied to her will...

Bonethrall says "take control" which is very strong wording. Later it says her "minions" implying that this refers to creatures she has bonethralled. But command undead doesn't give control over intelligent undead; merely makes them friendly. And yet, the same paragraph implies it does.

(once control is established, the undead remain controlled even if outside the witch's aura). Intelligent undead receive a new saving throw each day to resist her command.

This raises questions about possess undead.

Possess Undead (Sp): A gravewalker may take direct control of one of her undead minions within her aura of desecration, as if using magic jar;

How much like magic jar? By a strict reading, magic jar won't work on mindless undead because they're soulless. If bonethrall is what makes an intelligent undead her minion then does casting control undead on one also make it a minion for the purposes of this spell?

I get the feeling that the writers intended for bonethrall to behave more like a long-lasting control undead; not command undead and that you can only possess those you've bonethralled. But that's only strongly implied. Per the wording, that's not the case.

This debate just keeps raising more and more questions over on another RPG forum so I'm hoping we can get an official clarification of how the Gravewalker's undead-controlling powers are supposed to work with regard to these various questions.