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So in my research of the feat toughness for synthesis it came quick to realise a lot of people say the Eidolon doesn't get it. But why?

I'm pretty sure any other feat is transferred. like weapon finesse. Or am I wrong and no feats are transferred?

I think the main reason why people say no is because of the double 3 HP bonus. an extra 18 hit points at level 3 is pretty insane.

Would it be overruled so the Eidolon only gets 1 extra? But then that gets complicated in the lower levels.

A standard Summoner can get toughness and his Eidolon can get it as well. Giving a better bonus to HP than the synthesis.

The standard Summoner also has a much better action economy, buffing and attacking in the same round! The synthesist's only major bonus is the HP. So why is it so quick to nerf and deny improving their strongest feature. I mean the Eidolon can ONLY be healed by the Summoner rejuvenate spells anyway!


Forgive any random typos! I'm using my phone.

Wow does a Synthesis look complicated! I was hoping I could get some opinions to take to my DM before he gets the final say. I'll keep my questions short and sweet.

1. The summon is bound to the Eidolon' max attacks. let's say that is 3. The Eidolon has 2 claw attacks but the summoner being lizard folk has a natural claw attack to. Do the Summoner attacks go towards these max attacks, and would he have 4 arms, the 2 arms he has and the two for the Eidolon (since the Eidolon is translucent)

2. Being Lizard folk gives me a bonus to constitution. a +2. Does that bonus go to the Eidolon or is it overwritten from the Eidolons.

3. Lizard folk already have a tail. Does that essentially give the Eidolon a free evolution or would the tail evolution need to be added before tail slap can be added.

4. The Summoner and Eidolon share health. Does the Summoners hit dice go from his constitution score and the Eidolon goes from his?

5. The Eidolon gets no feats, does the Summoner gain access to the Eidolons feats and expend his improvements to improve the Eidolon.

6. The Eidolon gets no skills but can still get the skillful evolution, does that stack with the Summoner skills instead?

7. Could the aquatic based Eidolon be attached to the Summoner using the Summoner's lungs to sustain itself on land and his own gills to sustain both in water. This is mainly curiosity.

From what I could gather I think the Eidolon overwrites everything physical including Summoner attacks, the only thing that remains from the Summoner is the spells. I hope these questions don't seem to noobie, I just don't want to accidentally make an already powerful class even better.

Oh on for the record the race Lizard Folk is an RP alternative given by the DM as to where our party currently is. I know it's a poor choice for this class :-)


So my next session in tomorrow and the party find themselves against 9 things. 8 of them juststandard and 1 leader. They've also convinced an NPC to be with them and they also have an animal companion and an eidolon which gives me 12 things to control. Now I'm fully capable of making quick decisions and adding the rolls up but in hindsight I feel having 75% of the turn being me doing things might leave too much down time.

I'm thinking of allowing the Druid and Summomer to control their minions and give each player 2 of the standard monsters to control. I think it will be interesting to see how the group reacts and how challenging they make the fight for themselves. It'll be nice to see if they choose their own characters as targets or do they choose the NPC. Hell they might decide a mutiny is in order and attack the leader.

If nothing else it's certainly an experiment and should be a good laugh!

Opinions wanted as ever. Is this a terrible idea? Does this break immersion? Should I add special rules they must follow? Should I suggest it to the group instead of just giving them control? Or was this an amazing idea (from another poster in this forum, don't give me credit)?

Thanks in advance!


Hello, thank you for taking the time to read. I've been playing DnD and PF for a total of 11 years.I've DM'd a few times in this time but have recently got back into DMing. In the most recent session we held one of the player characters got killed. It was an extremely lucky shot from a bow that caused a crit. I worked out the odds of it happening and it was 300 to 1.

We laughed, we giggled and the game went on as normal. I explained that a new character needed to be made and I allowed him to get the xp from the session and to let it carry over. I felt this was fair and it did show my group of people that s$++ happens, people die.

Now this was the group's 3rd session, they're all new to PF and I did feel bad that one of them got unlucky enough to be instantly killed (a small note, he was on 2 hp at the time of the kill shot) one of the members of this group linked me a subreddit post about DMs who fudge dicerolls. Then asked me to give this new character a free pass to not die instantly, should the unlikiness happen again.

To me this was her asking me to 'cheat' and I completely dismissed the idea entirely. I explained to her the odds of it happening in the first place let alone it happening again. I then further explained the multiple ways that death can be avoided. such a healing spells which they had available but didnt use. withdrawing from the engagement or hiding behind something if you feel things are getting too rough. Surely the excitement of knowing something can go terribly wrong will be removed should they believe I'm willing to hold back on my rolls. Surely they would ignore buying potions or filling up spell slots with defensive magic if they believe I wont allow another character to die in the next few weeks.

In my eyes fudging dice rolls removes the viability of certain classes, builds, spells and preperations and armour in fact! It removes the excitement of success, it removes the 'plan B' because something went wrong. Some of my favourite moments lie in the bad rolls that killed my character or made a plan go sour. On top of those moments of heroic events, fighting against the odds just to save your fellow player from dying!

I believe I went off on a tangent then. Back to the point. Because I said no to fudging dice and explained the freedom of how to avoid being killed she then insinuated that I was a bad DM. A bad DM because I won't fudge dice rolls.
opinions and advice please. should I fudge or should I help them understand their unlimited options