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Fighters rule!

A fighter had throw anything? And what if he hadn't chosen, of hist limited pool of options, that one item?

Sure, fighter builds can have high AC. How this helps vs traps and magic, I'll not know, since those are supposed to be a goodly portions to threats.

The point is that fighters have less options. They don't get skills; they don't get spells; they don't get magic activation items; and their feats don't, in RAW, scale.

Sure, a Barbarian can move umm... Faster than a Dwarf. What this has to do with fighters being balanced means f-all.

-Crissa
Fighters rule!

Discussing banned people is without tact.

Anyhow, the idea isn't that things can't be fun even if they are not as yet balanced - just that the potential for fun is hampered by these situations.

A Fighter in d20 has several problems

  • They primarily attack one defense - AC - and generally don't get the option to attack others.
  • They have a limited number of options - they get one feat for every four automatic spells a Wizard learns, for instance.
  • They're dependent upon gear to be level-appropriate - instead of levels to use gear, it's gear to use levels.
  • Any gear they can have can be used by classes that don't need it - in other words, they're a subset of options.
  • Feat chains - to access level-appropriate abilities, feats must be taken in chains. Most feats only then keep the one ability level appropriate. Starting a new chain means not getting a level appropriate feat.

    So they're a crappy choice. And basic choices like race and class shouldn't be crappy, they should be balanced.

    More balanced, more fun.

    -Crissa

    •
    Fighters rule!
    hazel monday wrote:
    Fighters are pretty great.

    No, they're not.

    The entire cast of options that Fighters have, is, indeed, the subset of options all other classes have.

    And that should be a self-obvious enough definition to tell you that fighters suck.

    Fighters need to be able to hit the opponent. That's all they have the bonuses to do. They can't entangle them from afar, throw fog or darkness down, hide, sneak, turn into wild beasts or the enemy's friends. These are all things other classes can do, and the fighter cannot.

    The fighter also does not innately have any counters to any of these options other classes have.

    It's really, really simple. Fighter has less options, and therefore is an NPC, not a PC. Any attempt to say 'But they're just harder to play!' is a cop-out, because in no cases is the fighter doing something which isn't an option to another class.

    Hitpoints do not make up for not having spells.

    -Crissa
    Fighters rule!

    There's a simple answer to this.

    Without looking at gear - since all classes can have gear - how many options does a Fighter have vs another class?

    If the answer is 'less', the Fighter fails.

    It's that simple. Sure, you can make a fighter that excels in, well, fighting. The problem is that most of the other classes - especially spellcasting ones - no longer really delve into fighting at later levels, and just bypass the fighter totally.

    Hitpoints don't make up for low saves and less tactical options.

    -Crissa