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Hands Detachment feat unforeseen consequences?
3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I've got a few questions about Hand's Detachment that I haven't been able to find an answer to. The first is summed up as "What's its Constitution Score?", the second is "What is its creature type?", and the last is "Does it retain the Grab ability?"

Background information for all:

Hands Detachment text:
Use the statistics for a crawling hand to represent the detached hand, save that the hand isn’t undead, doesn’t have the mark quarry ability, and shares your alignment.
[Haunted Heroes Handbook pg. 24]

Additional background info for first:

Crawling Hand stat block:
Str 13, Dex 11, Con --, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 14
[Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2 pg. 59]

Undead traits:
No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon's DC).
[Don't have the book and can't find page attribution online anywhere]

First question long form: Seeing as how a Crawling Hand is normally undead, it has no Constitution score because that is an undead specific trait (also applies to Constructs, but the feat doesn't say that it becomes a Construct). Since it is no longer undead, does it gain a Constitution score? If so, what does that become? Since you're losing the undead type, it would no longer be able to utilise undead traits, such as using Charisma mod to determine all the things Constitution scores are used for.

I know that the general rule is that if a trait/ability/feat calls out that you get x, y, and z but doesn't say anything about q, you don't get q. But this seems like an exception to that. This specifically says that it is not undead, which is why it even lacks a Constitution score to begin with, and is silent on the matter of the Constitution score.

Additional background info for second and last:

Familiar rule:
It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type.
[Core Rulebook pg. 82]

Second question long form: The feat only says that it isn't undead, but doesn't say that it becomes anything else. Its creature type would become your own, since it's your own hand, right? Or would it become a Magical Beast according to the usual Familiar rule, even though it was never an animal to begin with?

Last question long form: Seeing as how the feat calls out Mark Quarry as something it doesn't gain, but doesn't call out Grab as either gained or not gained...do you gain it as part of the Crawling Hand stats? It doesn't fall into the normal "retains" rule for a familiar. Yeah, x, y, and z mentioned, no q mentioned, means no q...but still want to know for certain.

I really want to make terrible hand related puns while grappling a person with just my hand and being able to attack them as myself or vice-versa with the Fighter Eldritch Guardian / Mutation Warrior archetypes combination that I saw elsewhere in the forums. And I can see how these issues might end up being relevant for multiple reasons.