Stymphalides

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Hi everyone,
so I recently picked up second edition and rolled a face/utility bard for our three man game (1 DM / 2 Players). I opted for a background as an emissary to grab as many starting languages as possible to be able to actually communicate with NPCs rather than having to fight myself through each and every encounter. Given that we are only two players, combat is a far more dangerous endeavor than in your average band of 4 person murder-hobo gang.

This got me thinking about how to most effectively approach the issue of language barrier. Is it really worth it to invest limited resources in learning languages in second edition?
How many languages are enough to cover your need for conversation. There are a lot of creatures, that may speak a language, but never will sit down and have a tea, opting to try and eat your face instead. And those that will talk to you most likely can speak "Common".

As of writing this post, there a a grand total of 49 published languages (1 secret, 15 common, 33 uncommon).

So, what can you do? There are a few ways to gain additional languages. Magic (and magic items) and feats (ancestry, heritage and skill) and a high intelligence modifier.

Magic:
Comprehend Language (2nd Level), Telepathy (4th Level) and Tongues (5th Level) and all items, that all items that give you that spell.

All these let you speak any number of languages for up to one hour per cast (10 minutes for telepathy). Only comprehend languages (heightened to 3rd) will let you read as well.

Available to all casters except those using the Primal tradition. Versatile as long as the spell is active. Not so much, when you need to be able to converse / read / study over a longer period of time.

With a theoretical endless supply of gold, this becomes a non-issue, but not every character has an endless supply of gold.

Ancestry / Class / Feats:
When not relying on magic to do translations for you, you need to actually learn a language. How do we do that? Feats. Lots and lots of feats.

Ancestry plays a big role in the number of languages you can obtain in total throughout your characters life. All ancestries (except Gnomes, who get one more) start out with two languages learned. With a positive intelligence modifier up to 6 (at max level) more may be learned (poor lizard folk).

However only Halflings and Gnomes (and those adopted by Gnomes) can get more. Using either the "Nomadic Halfling" or the "Gnome Polyglot" feat you can gain 2/3 additional languages plus you improve the "Multilingual" feat

You can then take the "Multilingual" feat ad nauseam to learn as many languages as possible. For this Rogues are best suited, as they get twice as many skill feats than everybody else.

You can obtain an additional two languages by raising "Society" to legendary.

You can also opt to simply take the "Legendary Linguist" feat and speak a pig-din of all languages and communicate with anybody. Downside here is, same as with most spells, that you can only speak, but cannot read anything, which can sometimes help you.

Factoring all that in, I could create a character that can speak and read up to 92 languages at max level (Gnome Rogue, Polyglot, Max Int, Using only Multilingual in all Skill and General Feats, Legendary in Society).

I may have missed a few options in the book, but it's a start. Now I am not quite satisfied with any of the options available at this time. New rule books may give more efficient options, but these are the ones we have.

Now, after this long intro, my actual question. How much of your resources do you invest into learning languages for your character. Is it even necessary? Can spells sufficiently cover it. Should you focus on building up a translation bot. Should you use resources in your group to get everybody to learn a few languages, so as a whole you cover most? Or do you stick with a basic language and murder loot your way to victory aka diplomacy is for chumps. Interested to hear (read) your thoughts.


A different take on the Paladin

Warning: Wall of Text inbound. Proceed at your own peril.

Browsing through the playtest forum I cannot help but notice a growing dissatisfaction with how one of the most iconic classes has been treated in the newest iteration of the Pathfinder roleplaying game. There are numerous calls to bring back iconic abilities from PF1, to uncouple them from new abilities or to change the way old time favorites work under the new action system. That the old abilities don't mesh well with the new, and that the class stifles itself with too many options that are all tied to a single (re)action each round. And maybe most damning of all. That the paladin is not actually good in the role it has been assigned. When the other martial classes are better at defending the party, while also dealing more damage, you know something is up.

For me personally I feel that the paladin lacks most in class identity. What makes a paladin in PF2?
Are they divine warriors blessed by the gods to heal the wounded, defend the weak, to punish the wicked and to lead their party from the front lines? Are they one of these things? Are they everything at once? Or are they a poor man's cleric or an even poorer man's fighter? The way I see it, the paladin offers nothing to the player, that a cleric or fighter can't equally do well or better by just multiclassing into one another. Flavor can be roleplayed. Which is kind of sad, really.

I get that in Pathinder 2 we can't get everything in equal measure. Almost none of the classes can do everything as well as they could in Pathfinder 1. Some have improved. Some haven't.
The paladin (for me) falls squarely in the latter category and no amount of fidgeting with ability numbers will solve that. The paladin needs clear class paths to follow. To shape its identity and to give it tools to perform well in that path.
I think this was very well done for the druid class, also the bard in small measure. This approach can be transposed for great effect.

-Disclaimer-
I will state this outright. What I am going to present here is biased by my personal views on what a paladin is and is not. English is not my native tongue, so I am bound to make mistakes. Do I feel strongly for the paladin as a class? Yes, I do. Will everything, I present be perfectly balanced and on par with all other classes? Most likely not. I am not a game designer and I am not getting paid for this. Having said this, let’s begin, and thank you for sticking around until now:

The Paladin:

A paladin is a martial character, blessed by the divine to protect all that is good and just. These men and women are sworn to defend those that cannot defend themselves, punish those that would prey on the weak, provide succor to the sick and to provide guidance to those that are lost in the dark. They are spiritual people that have taken a personal oath to serve something much greater than themselves and would sacrifice freely if it means to bring about a better future. Where others waiver, the paladin stands tall. Where others lose their way, the paladin lights the way forward. They do the good work, no matter how hard it may be. They don't compromise on their ideals, even if it would damn them. They have taken an oath between themselves and their deity to do right right and only they can free them from that oath. The paladin is good and lawful. They are the champions of that alignment. There may be other champions for other alignments, but I think they should be made into their own respective classes, as there will be major differences between how these are set up. The exception to this is obvious the anti-paladin, which is just that. A paladin in reverse. But thats their entire stick. This is my starting point for the class. I may be alone in this view, but it is what it is.

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Class Features:

Key Ability: Strength or Charisma
Added Charisma as a key ability. Paladin powers are keyed to charisma, and not being able to utilize those to their fullest is a waste. Paladins should be able to fill the role of the leader or party face as before.

Hit Points D10
As appropriate for a martial class. No change needed

Proficiencies and Signature skills
I feel that the selection of skills and proficiencies is adequate for the paladin. They're armed and armored and the skills match the fluff. Maybe reduce the number of trained skills from 4 to 3.

The paladin code: The paladin follows the paladin code as well as the commandments of his/her deity.
It's thematic. It's mechanically sound. It wouln't be a paladin if there wasn't a list of do's and don'ts.

Deific Weapon – Increase damage die if simple and gives proficiency
Maybe down the road we get more gods that allow paladins, that will actually benefit from this class feature. It doesn't cost us anything and is somewhat thematically appropriate. I suggest to have a feat line based on this.

Retributive Strike – Change the wording of the trigger condition.
"Trigger: A creature within your reach or half your weapons range increment hits and ally or friendly creature."
I personally like this feat. It's very thematic, and gives the paladin a tool to protect allies and aggravate their enemies. However the way it is now, it doesn't do enough.
Changing the base will give paladins with ranged weapons at least something to do. In addition I'd like a clarification what counts as a legal target for Retributive strike.
Personally it should be up to the player to protect whoever and whatever they want and not be limited to allied characters

Champion powers – Champion powers will be merged into the new Oath feat line.
I will keep most of this as it is. Spell points gained from Charisma and Trained in appropriate spell roles. I would remove the half level scaling however. The paladin gets only a few abilities, that have to contend with a very limited pool of ressources. No need to make them weak".

Class Feats / Skill Feats / Ancestry Feats stay as they are now.
[i]Changing this setup would move the class too far away from the mold, which would make a comperative balance with the other classes difficult at best.

Oath Feat (1st level) - See later section for more details

Righteous Spirit (3rd level) - The paladin is filled with divine essence. How this power manifests is tied to the oath they took at first level.

Blade Spirit - You channel your power through your weapon (manufactured and natural).
Choose a weapon property from the list and add it to the weapon you wield. You may only enhanche one weapon at a time.
This enhanchment works only as long as you physically wield your weapon. The list of properties expands at 9th, 15th and 20th level. You gain the critical specialization of your deities favored weapon.
I feel that the divine spirit is an integral part of the paladin and should grow along side. You will be restricted to a single ally and you only gain the critical specialization for a single weapon as a drawback.

Shield Spirit - Your channel your power into your shield to protect you from harm.
Any shield that you wiel can absorb more damage and can take more dents before becoming broken.
Your shield gains 2/8/14/20 hardness and 2 extra dents at 3rd, 9th, 15th and 20th level. In addition it can only take a single dent per attack (ignore critical).
Obviously this depends how the shield mechanic will evolve in the future. In any case, the paladins shield should not break as easily anymore.

Radiant Spirit - You channel your power outward.
You increase the range of your auras by 10/20/30/40 feet at 3rd, 9th, 15th and 20th level.
Right now your allies effectively hug you to benefit from your auras. The range increase may be too drastic making the abilties too powerful, but I like the mental image of the paladin embolding a throng of soldiers leading the charge.

Weapon Expertise (5th level) - Gain expert proficiency with a weapon group.
Personally I'd like to restrict it to the weapon group the deities favored weapon belongs too, but I think that would be too limiting / controversial.

Armor Fortitude (7th level) - Change "While wearing heavy armor, when you succeed at a Fortitude save, treat your result as a critical success instead." to "Reduce the penalty to movement due to heavy armor from 10 feet to 5 feet." - The fortitude save is nice but more speed would be better. Makes heavy armor less of a problem.
While I think making the fortitude saves better is nice, I feel that the lowered mobility is too steep a price for all ancestries except maybe elf or half-elf. I'll admit, that this is a point of contestion.

Holy Smite (9th level) - Removed entirely and reworked into another feat. Instead gain an oath feat.
[i]I think smite should stand on its own and not be an attachment of another ability. I don't have anything agains Retributive Strike causing permanent damage, but I find it too restrictive the way it is designed right now.

Aura of Justice (11th level) - Remove it from the class feature list and make place it in the feat list.
I think it has merit, but I need room to restructure the remaining class list.[i]

Armor Mastery (11th level) - Keep the wording as it is. Add another reduction of the movement penalty, enabling the paladin to move at full speed in heavy armor. Moved from 13th to 11th level.

Weapon Mastery (13th level) - Gain master proficiency with a weapon group. Moved from 15th to 13th level.
[i]Again I'd like to restrict it to the weapon group the deities favored weapon belongs to.

Oath Feat (15th level)

Legendary Armor (17th level) - Keep it as it is.

Hero’s Defiance (19th level) - Keep it as it is.

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Paladin Oaths

Oathbound Warrior: On becoming a paladin the player must choose the way they want to serve the cause of goodness and righteousness.
This choice modifies the paladins code class feature, the paladins signature skills and grants a specific class power.

Oath (Grand): Crusader
The paladin becomes a righteous crusader of his faith. They vow to seek out evil, wherever it may hide and to strike it down with all their might. Backing away from the opportunity to destroy a great evil is anathema to the crusader.
The crusader gains either "Intimidate" or "Nature" as a signature skill.
The crusader gains the "Holy Smite" power.

Oath (Grand): Guardian
The paladin becomes a sworn protector of this faith and community. They vow to prevent the innocent from coming to harm. Abandoning those that cannot help themselves to their fate is anathema to the guardian.
The guardian gains either "Intimidate" or "Medicine" as a signature skill.
The guardian gains the "Bulwark of Faith" power.

Oath (Grand): Saint
The paladin follows the teachings of their faiths holy men and women. They vow to bring aid to those in need, cure the sick and heal the wounded. Disregarding the needs of the sick and the poor is anathema to the healer.
The saint gains either "Medicine" or "Society" as their signature skill.
The saint gains the "Lay on Hands" power.

Oath (Major): Herald
The paladin becomes a herald of their faith. They vow to bring the light to those lost in darkness. The paladin gains the "Beacon of Light" power.
Increase the proficiency in "Diplomacy" or "Medicine". If it wasn't that skill becomes a signature skill.

Oath (Major): Martyr
The paladin is emboldened by the tales of the martyrs of their faith and seek to emulate their example.
The paladin gains the "Paladin's sacrifice" power.
Increase the proficiency in "Diplomacy" or "Society". If it wasn't that skill becomes a signature skill.

Oath (Major): Envoy
The paladin becomes a mediator and diplomat.
The paladin gains the "Guarded truce" power. Increase the proficiency in "Diplomacy" or "Intimidation". If it wasn't that skill becomes a signature skill.

Oath (Major): Knight
The paladin embraces the chivalric virtues of legend.
The paladin gains the service of trained mount and the "Loyal Mount" power.
Increase the proficiency in "Nature". If it wasn't that skill becomes a signature skill.

This is obviously inspired by the way the druid order class feature works. I would like the paladin to be able to take several different directions, giving the player the option to play a more three dimensional character and not be locked into a singular role.
Having an offensive, defensive and supportive option gives the class much needed versatility. Obviously this will cause friction with other martial classes, as there will be an overlap with roles and capabilities, but I find outright locking out options for sake of giving everybody their own special little happy place is not a good idea.

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Paladin Feats

[i]Here I fidgeted around with some of my own ideas and the content already presented. Most of the feats were kept as they are, as the fit. Just some need tweaking and some fresh items added. This is obviously based on personal prefence and in dire need of balancing.

[1] Lay on Hands - 1 Spell Point [Somatic Casting] - 1D4 per level plus Charisma modifier as healing or damage on undead. If Oath (Grand) Saint was chosen at first level increase to 1D6 instead.

[1] Holy Smite - 1 Spell Point [Free Action Verbal Casting] - Trigger: Start an attack - Add your charisma modifier (min 0) to the damage to the attack if it hits. This conditional bonus is considered good/holy damage. If Oath (Grand) Crusader was chosen at first level add charisma to the attack role.

[1] Bulwark of Faith - 1 Spell Point [Free Action Verbal Casting] - Trigger: When you are the target of an attack and you have used the "Raise shield" action in this round. Your shield counts as having twice the amount of hardness for this round. If your shield would receive a dent, it receives one dent less.

[1] Divine Tools - You may use your deities favored weapon to complete somatic casting components of your paladin powers. (Requires Deific Weapon)

[1] Deities Domain - Keep it as it is.

[2] Divine Grace - Reaction: Add your charisma modifier against on a saving throw against spell, spell-like and supernatural sources.

[2] Dragonslayer Oath (Minor)- You fight evil dragons with great fervor. Vow to destroy them if it is reasonable. All attacks against evil dragons have a reduced multiple attack penalty (counts as agile when attacking).

[2] Fiendslayer Oath (Minor)- You fight evil outsiders with great fervor. Vow to destroy them if it is reasonable. All attacks against evil outsiders have a reduced multiple attack penalty (counts as agile when attacking).

[2] Shining Oath (Minor) - You fight the undead with great fervor. Vow to destroy them if it is reasonable. All attacks against the undead have a reduced multiple attack penalty (counts as agile when attacking).

[2] Aura of Courage - Keep it as it is.

[4] Vengeful Oath (Minor) - Keep it as it is except add (Requires "Lay on Hands" power) as prerequisite.

[4] Mercy - Keep it as it is.

[4] Righteous Might - Add an additional weapon die to the damage role of your "Holy Smite"

[4] Divine Health - Gain your charisma modifier as a flat modifier on constitution checks against diseases and poison. If you succeed it counts as critical.

[4] Combat Patrol - Add the following feature to Retributive Strike. When an allied or friendly target is attacked you may take an immediate stride action to get into reach or half range increment. If you can't get into reach you can't take the additional stride action. If you take the stride action your Retributive Strike also takes the multiple attack penalty.

[6] Eternal Vigilance - Gain an additional reaction. It may only be used for Retributive Strike

[6] Shield Warden - You may use your shield block to protect an allied or friendly target (Requires Shield Ally)

[6] Blade of Justice - Your weapon strikes true. You gain the "True Strike" power. Increase spell points by 1. (Requires Blade Ally)

[6] Litany of Wrath - Change damage dice to 1D4 to account for full spell level otherwise as normal

[6] Guarded Life - When using Lay on Hands to heal an allied target, gain half (rounded down) of the hit points (Require Radiant Ally)

[8] Advanced Domain - Keep it as it is.

[8] Greater Mercy - Keep it as it is.

[8] Detect Evil - Keep it as it is.

[8] Have at thee! - Gain the "Have at thee!" ability. Costs 2 actions. 1 verbal 1 somatic (you brandish your weapon or shield).
Make an intimidate or deception check on all enemies in a 30 foot cone or 15 feet burst. If the fail their will the enemy must focus their attack (melee, range or spell) on you until the start of your next round. Area of effect effects can be used as long as you are affected.

--- Granted by Major Oath

[9] Paladin's sacrifice - Gain the Paladin's sacrifice power as normal

[9] Loyal Mount - The loyal mount power is a mash of the steed spirit ally and the loyal warhorse power. In short. Gain a full grown terrestrial animal companion with the mount special ability (counting only for you). The mount also never attacks you.

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[10] Shield of Reckoning - As normal

[10] Divine Will - As normal

[10] Righteous Blade – For purpose of overcoming damage reduction all damage done by your "Holy Smite" power counts as good/holy damage. On a critical hit, add persistent damage equal to your charisma bonus.

[10] Divine Reach - Your deities favored weapon counts as having reach (for melee weapons) for Retributive strike (Requires Deific Weapon, Divine Tools)

[12] Affliction Mercy - Keep it as it is.

[12] Aura of Faith - Your critical attacks add 1 persistent good/holy damage. You grant this power to allies within 10 feet.

[12] Holy Wall - Keep it as it is.

[12] Armor of Faith - While wearing heavy armor count success on fortitude as crit. When subject to a critical hit make fortitude check with the DC of the damage. If you succeed take half damage. (Requires Bulwark of Faith)

[14] Call to judgment - Gain the call to judgment power. 2 Actions - 100 feet range - Mark a target creature for retribution. Until the start of your next round. When the targeted creature takes a strike or casting action all allies within reach or half their range increment can take a retributive strike reaction.

[14] Anchoring Aura - Keep it as it is.

[14] Aura of Live - Keep it as it is.

[14] Aura of Righteousness - Keep it as it is.

[14] Warding Aura - Keep it as it is.

[14] Litany of Righteousness - Keep it as it is.

--- Granted by Major Oath

[15] Beacon of Light - Scorch evil with a blinding ray of light. 2 Spell Points Verbal and Somatic Action - Deal 15D6 damage and blind on save. On Fail target is slowed and enfeebled. On Critical fail target is enervated.

[15] Sanctified Armistice - Gain the Sanctified Armistice power.
Costs / Gain 2 Spell Points. Takes two Verbal and one Somatic Action - All creatures in an 80 foot radius are under the effect of sanctuary for 10 minutes.
If a creature succeeds their will check and/or attacks one of the warded creatures they are struck by divine light. Deal 10D6 holy damage per attack

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[16] Auspicious Mount - Keep it as it is except add the following line: "Your companion also gains the Savage or Nimble trait".

[18] Instrument of Zeal - Keep it as it is.

[18] Shield of Grace - Keep it as it is.

[18] Ultimate Mercy - Keep it as it is.

[20] Celestial Mount - Keep it as it is.

[20] Avatar - Gain the Avatar Spell as a power. 3 Spell Points

[20] Angelic Form - Keep it as it is.

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Closing statement

If you stuck around this far, I humbly say thank you.