Coleridge12's page

Many witch hexes are worded in ways I find confusing, or have ambiguities I'd like help clearing up.

On a minor note, I notice that many witch archetypes replace the 2nd, 6th, and 8th-level hexes. What's the design behind replacing hexes at these specific levels?

Previously, I posted a homebrew prestige class designed primarily for witches, called the Witchlord. The Witchlord is designed to deliver on the fantasy of communal magic, allowing the Witchlord to get more out of establishing a coven than most witches.

However, that version of the Witchlord had some problems. It's reliance upon the Leadership feat made it easy to break, while also making it a pain in the ass due to the need to lug around members of your coven. Further, it seemed mostly an NPC class; PCs wouldn't be able to reliably make use of the benefits the class provides enough to justify taking levels in it.

This new version of the Witchlord seeks to fix those problems while still delivering on a coven-leader, "Witch Queen" fantasy. Version 3.0 can be found here.

In transitioning from witch to Witchlord, a character gives up the following:

* 1 caster level
* Familiar progression

In exchange, the Witchlord gains the following:

Witchery

The Witchlord gains access to a slew of hexes, Major Hexes, and Grand Hexes otherwise unavailable to Shaman or Witches. like the Winter Witch prestige class, the Witchlord levels do stack with Witch levels for the purposes of determining hex effects and DCs. Whenever the Witchlord may select a hex, even after she stops leveling in the class (e.g. gains a hex through witch levels or Extra Hex), she can select a Witchlord hex.

Coven Initiate/Elder/Lordship

As the Witchlord levels, she gains the ability to temporarily bestow her allies with the Coven hex. This allows them to pump up her caster level and also to take part in Coven Casting. Additionally, with each tier of this ability, the Witchlord gains a bonus.

Coven Initiate lets the Witchlord know the Status (as per the spell) of each Coven hex user within 50 feet per level. She can use the Coven hex, and gain the benefits of others' use of the Coven hex, at an additional range of 5 feet.

Coven Elder lets the Witchlord see through the eyes and ears of each Coven hex user within range, as per the spell Witness. The Coven hex use/benefit range increases by another 5 feet.

Coven Lordship lets the Witchlord establish a Telepathic Bond (as per the spell) with each Coven hex user in range. The Coven hex use/benefit range increases by another 5 feet (max range: 25 feet).

Coven Casting/Improved CC/Greater CC

Starting at 3rd level and every level thereafter, the Witchlord can select a number of spells from the Sorc/Wiz, Cleric/Oracle, and Druid spell lists (there are limiting factors; it's not totally free choice) to learn as unique Spell-Like Abilities. These Spell-Like Abilities can only be used by the Witchlord and two other Coven hex users collectively taking a full-round action.

The Witchlord gains an Arcane Ritual pool of points, which is the daily limiting factor on uses of Coven-Casting.

At later levels, the Witchlord can add specific metamagic effects to her Coven Casting SLAs.

Warding Whispers

The witch's dodge AC increases for each nearby ally with the coven hex, up to a cap.

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The Witchlord's ability to bestow the Coven hex temporarily upon her allies makes it easy for her to work with a standard party instead of lugging around followers. The versatility of Coven Casting helps the Witchlord to reach new heights of magic beyond the Witch spell list, and her hexes permit the Witchlord a benefit to the class even if they're not able to prepare their coven in time.

Please review the class in the linked doc and let me know your thoughts. I look forward to them.

I really appreciate your thoughts. Thanks for checking the class out!

The NPC-oriented nature of the class is something that has come up previously. I think it's mitigated because of the Imbue Hex ability allowing a witchlord to use coven casting so long as she has a coven-member (Leadership's provided cohort, which I don't think is an unusual thing to travel with) and an ally willing to accept the coven hex via Imbue Hex. That said, because Imbue Hex is not a feature each witchlord is going to have - it's a choice that can be made, like any hex - this may not be the best argument against the class's NPC nature.

Most people who enter the class will be witches, but I attempted to ensure that others can, so long as they have access to the hex class feature. This includes Hexcrafter Magi as well as Shamans. Unfortunately, this doesn't include Accursed Bloodline sorcerers, since they cannot have the coven hex, even though their Bloodline arcana ostensibly allows them to be members of a witchlord's coven.

The ability of Magi, Shaman, and Sorcerers is also the reason why I have avoided referencing familiars in the class description. Magi and Sorcerers don't necessarily have familiars, and as such I didn't want to push that feature.

The full-round action needed to use Coven's Casting SLA's is based upon the rules of a hag's coven. A hag's coven requires it's three members to take a full-round action in order to use the SLA's, as you can see here.

Good point on the ability to replace SLA's. There is no limit currently on the number of times an SLA can be cast. Perhaps there should be, but before we determine that please check out the revisions I mention in this post.

In a larger sense, I'm looking to rework the Coven Casting ability along the following lines:
1. Select any spell on the wizard/sorcerer, druid, or cleric/oracle list that (A) has a cast time of one round or less and (B) is of a spell level 1 below the highest level of spell you can cast.
2. The witchlord and two members of her coven (i.e. individuals with the coven hex or Accursed Bloodline Sorcerers) within 10 feet may all take a full-round action to take part in a form of cooperative magic, using a selected spell as a Spell-Like Ability.
3. Save DCs are determined using the witchlord's normal DCs for a spell of that level. The caster level for each spell is equal to the witchlord's caster level or the highest CL available (to account for coven-hex users beyond the two participating).

What if the Imbue Hex ability instead became a class feature, specific to the coven-hex? This could replace Witch's Whispers and do the following:
1. Allow the witchlord, once per day, to annoint an ally (increasing up to 3 over the class's levels) as a member of her coven, granting them access to the Coven hex for [some number of minutes]. The witchlord gains a Telepathic Bond (as per the spell) with each member of her coven within [some large number of feet.]
2. The range at which the witchlord can use or receive the Aid Another action via the coven hex, and at which she can use Coven Casting, increases by [5/10/15] feet.

This reduces the need of the witchlord to lug around her followers with her everywhere, and also allows the capstone - Coven Lordship - a bit more weight in its ability to summon and therefore communicate with coven members from vast distances.

I can't seem to edit my initial post. Replace Coven Lordship's description with the following:

I wanted a witchlord to be able to feel powerful and connected without having to lug around her followers everywhere she went. Coven Casting is a potentially very strong ability, which should be available to a witchlord who made the commitment more often than just whenever she and her gang get together.

Coven Lordship lets the witch - as long as she has 10 minutes of prep time - call a meeting of her lieutenants via Astral Projection once per day. A witch with sufficient notice of an icoming fight can therefore call upon a number of other, loyal followers to aid her in her efforts, hold a meeting of her coven leaders, and otherwise manage her network of witches. With the proper selection of SLA's with Coven Casting, a witchlord could supply herself with the buffs of the day through a remote commune with her followers.

Coven Casting increases access to the benefits of the Prestige Class's features, at the cost of being able to only do it once per day and only for a few minutes.

The coven lordship description in the post above is outdated. I will update it shortly.

TL;DR: I like witches, but have some problems with them. I wanted to try and design a prestige class to fill a niche that I think is unoccupied. This is a link to the class; I want opinions on how to revise it to make it better.

Hello all,

I'm still within my first year of playing Pathfinder and I find that I learn systems better when trying to make things within them. I'm in two campaigns, but my longest character between them is also my first: a witch, who wants to establish a coven and later become the leader of this powerful force.

Though I like the witch class, I have a few problems with it.
Foremost among them is that many of the witch's unique options (Hexes and Archetypes) are either (A) seemingly designed for NPCs or (B) shoe-horn the witch into evil. While some helpful hexes exist (Healing hex, Ward, Fortune etc.), many of the other unique options available to witches are underwhelming, like the Nails, Cursed Wound, and Charm hexes. Or, very obviously more evil than not: Evil Eye, Misfortune, Poison Steep hexes, for example. While many hexes can be flavored to be less apparently evil, I'd like to see some more options for the witch. I feel as though most witches will wind up taking the same main hexes (e.g. Evil Eye, Slumber, Flight, Prehensile Hair) for lack of more diverse options. As debuff-specialized class, I understand how it's easy to have the witch's strongest options lean more towards evil. But still.

The witch archetypes face similar problems to the hexes. The White-Haired Witch archetype, while great for multiclassing into something else, doesn't seem to give a straight WHW much to keep pace with other members of the group. The Bouda, Dark Sister, Gravewalker, and Veneficus witch are all pretty evil in theme. The Hedge Witch can certainly move away from that, but the rest of the archetypes have - for all of my reading around - not much in the way of appealing strengths with the exception of niche cases (Sea Witch) or additional "dark" themed archetypes like the pre-errata Scarred Witch Doctor.

I have some problems with the witch spell list as well, largely in that they seem to be lacking many of the spells that can easily be associated with witches. Why wouldn't a witch gain access to Mage Hand and Prestidigitation, apparent staples of arcane cantrips? Or Silent Image? It helps me to view the witch as the "rogues" of arcane casters, favoring subtlety over brute force of magic, but the ability to cast illusions is strongly associated with witch lore and that a patron is necessary to achieve that sits poorly with me.

Further, I would like to see more witch-focused Prestige Classes beyond the Winter Witch. I think there is a lot of fertile ground in a range of further archetypes and Prestige Classes aimed towards the witch, and towards that end I have tried to draft one:

The Witchlord

The Witchlord was shamelessly made with my character's goal in mind. With it, I wanted to focus on a few things:

- The Coven hex
- The Leadership feat
- Introducing a range of hexes that supplement and provide alternatives to existing hexes
- Try to fill the "Witch Queen" design space. The Witchlord Prestige Class should be a boon to witch (or classes/archetypes that grant the Hex class feature) who wants to establish herself as the leader of a magical organization and do her work both herself and through envoys of her authority.

See the Witchlord prestige class here.

The Witchlord's four main class features are as follows:

Coven Casting

A lesser version of the coven casting ability available to hags.

Coven casting allows a Witchlord, at every odd level, to add two spells she knows with cast times equal to 1 round or less to a list of Spell-Like Abilities that she and two other members of her coven can spend a full-round action to cast. The selected spells can be of a spell level no higher than the highest spell level she is able to cast - 2.

The initial version of this class allowed the witchlord, at max level, to be the hag in her own coven and open up the same coven casting ability as hags have to her coven members. I thought that might be too strong, and so toned it down into this. A Witchlord 7 will have 14 Spell-Like Abilities she can only use with her followers. This is necessarily limiting - not everyone goes around with two subordinates - but does provide the witchlord with a unique repository effects to fall back on in times of need.

Witchery

Though witchlord's gain hexes at pre-determined levels, witchlord levels stack levels of a class that grants the Hex feature (Witch, Hexcrafter Magus, Shaman) for determining all other effects of hexes, like DCs, durations, etc. Additionally, the witchlord can select from a list of new hexes whenever she gains a hex.

These new hexes are intended to permit some remote work on behalf of the witchlord (Envoy, Enter Image, Hex Bag), to supplement hexes the Witchlord has by enabling more flexible use (Imbue Hex to allow an ally to use flight or Disguise hexes; Hex Bag to use the Waxen Image hex at long-range, combined with scrying or a similar spell), or to simply increase the witchlord's immediate power in a given situation (Circle Magic hex's CL bonus, Icon of the Witch's preparation advantage). Others have been created simply as a method of conveying the class's theme (Witch's Decree and Compelling Words' sense of authority and control) or because I saw the Vin Diesel's The Last Witch Hunter and it was exactly the kind of movie I expected it to be (the source of the Eternal Reign grand hex).

Witch's Whispers

A witchlord should have a good connection with her subjects. Witch's Whispers is an attempt to make that connection apparent. It benefits the witchlord who sends her envoys across the nation to do her bidding by informing her of their welfare, and also permits a witchlord who travels with her companions to benefit from more strategy by increasing the distance at which her companions can supplement her magical might.

Coven Lordship

I wanted a witchlord to be able to benefit from an increased range of hexes to select. Given that the class is a 7-level dip, and is first available at level 7, it's unlikely that many witchlords will access the witchlord grand hexes.

Coven Lordship was designed with this in mind. A witchlord who stops leveling in the class just doesn't stop leading a coven; she should be able to grow in power as she leads her organization. Coven Lordship's position as a capstone ability does require the witchlord to commit to the Prestige Class to gain its benefits, but doesn't leave the witchlord high and dry for wanting to pursue a career path for herself before level 11.

I'm looking for thoughts on the Prestige Class. Ideas for hexes or features, nerfs/buffs to the same, design thoughts, etc. Though this is version 2.0, this is still very much a rough draft by an unlearned player.

My Self wrote:

If you're going evil, take a look at the bouda witch. Melee touch attacks at range, ability to double up on your Evil Eye hex for a single target, and ability to change into a hyena. While the change into a hyena part is meh, you give up your familiar and two hexes for all the features, which isn't all that bad of a deal, considering how good Evil Eye is.

Bouda is almost brokenly good and is worth almost everything it gets. While it loses some of the action economy advantage having a familiar gives the ability to use your touch spells at 30' isn't too bad of a trade.

The real icing on the cake is Hyena Form, it's the best thing about this archetype. Natural spell, full ability to speak, 50' movement rate + scent, 10' reach, free trip attacks & +4 to strength and AC that lasts for 10 hours a day.
You are now impossible to sneak up on, chase down or mundanely stop you from casting spells. AND if someone does try to melee with you you can now effectively AoO them and knock them to the ground and move further away from them then they can follow you and attack (and almost out of the range of most of their attack spells).

This is a POTENT archetype with two annoying trade offs (no familiar and delayed access to major hexes).

The alignment requirement was what initially turned me off the archetype (I was making a CN character) and so I haven't paid attention to it again until now.

I understand that extending touch range to 30' feet is metamagic-feat level power, but given that the bouda can only do it 1/4th her witch level, is it truly that good?

The hyena thing is crazy good. Maybe I'll make a different character a bouda eventually.

If you want a witch, I really like the Ley Line witch in OA. You trade your familiar for the ability to raise your CL on spells, and you become spontaneous, which really helps the usability of the witch spell list.

I hadn't seen that archetype until now. It's pretty interesting. I want to make sure I'm understanding it correctly:

The archetype description states that the patron connection is not performed through a familiar, but the Ley Line Powered class feature explicitly only alters a witch's spellcasting, which is distinct from its Familiar class feature. Do Ley Line Guardians then still get a familiar that simply plays no role in their spellcasting (but would still provide benefits like the Dodo's initiative increase)? Or is it intended to scrap the familiar feature altogether?

No, that archetype screams NPC! Bad person doing stuff you need to send adventurers after her for! It's not designed to be useful as a PC, and it isn't.

The witch seems to have many more of these types of things than any other class, at least that I'm aware of. It's very disappointing to be guided towards certain very limited options because the others seem so interesting, but so incredibly niche.

FYI: The archetype name is actually Hag of Gyronna.

d20pfsrd.com strips all Golarion-specific content from their site, and can change the rules in the process.

It's usually not a good choice for PCs in a typical good or neutral aligned party.

I had figured it would be less than appropriate for a good-aligned party, but is it appropriate for a player character at all? Does a standard witch in a standard campaign have enough opportunities to capitalize on the benefits it offers?

The archetype's Sunder Hope ability seems incredibly situational.

I am relatively new to Pathfinder, and still playing my first ever character: a vanilla witch. I have no intentions of turning him towards the Dark Sister archetype, but I do find it very interesting.

I know that a lot of witch spells and hexes are either intentional poor choices (Nails), paltry versions of meaningful effects (Charm hex), or so situational that they seem intended to only be used by NPCs (Child-Scent). Still, some of these appeal to me through by their strong flavor.

What is the consensus, if any on the Dark Sister archetype? Is it similarly meant-for-NPCs-only, or is it something a PC could reasonably make work?

Dark Sister: Click Here