Camper Joe's page

Firstly, this is how I see it, and how I interpret the rules. I am probably wrong on a few counts, and if so constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated.

This may not be the best (or even legal) method, but it is simple, elegant, effective, completely in line with the template, and completely within the framework of the game. The end result, even if you don’t agree with certain methods, ends up as exactly what the template specifies. At 20th character level, for example, you will have 17 class levels, and have the CR+3 mod from the template.

These are some concepts which I use. Please bear with me until the end before criticising, and use the point numbers in your flames :) Also, in all examples I am using the fast progression for XP.

1. Character level and XP are forever linked. You cannot gain a character level without gaining XP, and only gaining XP (one way or another) allows you to advance in character levels. I.e. Character level 6 can only be achieved by attaining 15,000 XP.

2. The term ‘gain a level’ is a result of gaining XP. If a level 3 character with 3,300 XP was told by a rule to ‘gain a level’, he would gain 2,700 XP. The XP gain is the means by which the result is achieved. Now, it doesn’t matter to the game mechanics wether at 8th level you are at the start of the level, halfway to the next, or 1 XP short of the next level, you are still at 8th level. Thus, the benefit from gaining a level shouldn’t take that into account either, it should always be enough XP to get you from the beginning of your current level to the next level. Effectively the XP difference between the levels.

3. This is for a character that will take class levels, with the template being inherited.

4. “Monsters as PCs” states in the 4th paragraph that you treat the monster’s CR as class levels when determining the PC’s overall levels. In the template the CR for a half-fiend is that of the base creature plus either 1, 2 or 3 depending on hit die. It does not say racial HD, just HD.

5. Class levels provide 1 HD each. Using this and point 4 above, a character with 3 fighter levels (3HD) would be a character level 4 half-fiend fighter.

6. This is an important one. When a player gains enough XP to push him to 11 class levels (11 HD) he goes from character level 11 (10 class levels + 1 from the template) to character level 13 (11 class levels + 2 from the template). As stated in point 1, you can only gain character levels by gaining XP. The only way to facilitate this then is by granting him a bonus to XP, equivalent to one level. Treat this as a template bonus, or an earned bonus, just like ability point increases. It is a direct result of the half-fiend template and results in the PC effectively skipping a class level. This is why at level 1, 6, and 13 the table gives the PC XP.

7. The same monsters as PCs section from point 4 goes on to state what amount to “buy back” rules. A half-fiend’s CR modifier will, at it’s peak, be +3. By the rules we need to effect the buy-back a number of times equal to half this number rounded down, which is 1. This in effect lets us do this once in our career as a half-fiend.

8. This bit is open to interpretation: When to apply the buy-back. My choice is to start the procedure every time our CR modifier increases. Let me explain... When we have 4 or less HD our CR mod is +1. 1 halved rounded down is 0. We do the buy-back zero times. When we reach 11 HD our mod becomes +2. This halved, rounded down is 1, so now we start counting our levels. Between the 2nd and 3rd levels gained from this point, we do the buy-back which entails gaining a level halfway, which for us is between 8th and 9th levels, or more precisely, when we reach 42,000 XP. The reason we gain 16,000 XP is because that is how much XP a baseline 8th character level PC needs to get to 9th level, remembering points 1 and 2 from above. Since we can only “buy back” once in our career as a half-fiend, we never have to worry about this again.

OK, so on to the table. Character levels 1, 6 and 13 are the XP increases, 2, 7 and 14 are the skipped class levels, according to points 4, 5 and 6 above. The 8.5 character level is an abstraction of the buy-back process. Please forgive the crude formatting.

Character
Level . . . . | XP Total . .|Feats|Ability | What you as a PC get
1 . . . . . . . | . . . . . . . 0 | . 1st | . . . . .| Class level and 1,300 XP
2 . . . . . . . | . . . .1,300 | . . . . | . . . . .| --
3 . . . . . . . | . . . .3,300 | .2nd | . . . . .| Class level
4 . . . . . . . | . . . .6,000 | . . . . | .1st. .| Class level
5 . . . . . . . | . . .10,000 | . 3rd | . . . . .| Class level
6 . . . . . . . | . . .15,000 | . . . . | . . . . .| Class level and 8,000 XP
7 . . . . . . . | . . .23,000 | . 4th | . . . . .| --
8 . . . . . . . | . . .34,000 | . . . . | 2nd. .| Class level
8.5. . . . . . | . . .42,000 | . . . . | . . . . .| 16,000 XP
9 . . . . . . . | . . .50,000 | . 5th | . . . . .| Class level
10 . . . . . . | . . .71,000 | . . . . | . . . . .| Class level
11 . . . . . . | . .105,000 | . 6th | . . . . .| Class level
12 . . . . . . | . .145,000 | . . . . | .3rd. .| Class level
13 . . . . . . | . .210,000 | . 7th | . . . . .| Class level and 85,000 XP
14 . . . . . . | . .295,000 | . . . . | . . . . .| --
15 . . . . . . | . .425,000 | . 8th | . . . . .| Class level
16 . . . . . . | . .600,000 | . . . . | .4th. .| Class level
17 . . . . . . | . .850,000 | . 9th | . . . . .| Class level
18 . . . . . . | 1,200,000 | . . . . | . . . . .| Class level
19 . . . . . . | 1,700,000 | 10th | . . . . .| Class level
20 . . . . . . | 2,400,000 | . . . . | .5th. .| Class level

So please let me know what you think, hopefully I have not waisted the better part of a week on this :)

Please excuse me if this is a simple misunderstanding on my part:

A monk's attacks, anyone with improved unarmed attack, casters of touch spells, and a character with natural weapons all fall under the same section of unarmed attacks, namely "armed" unarmed attacks, paraphrased from page 182 of the core book.

So keeping the above in mind, could someone please explain the distinction between a natural attack and an unarmed strike?

Specifically, if 'unarmed strike' is listed as a favoured weapon, does that encompass all unarmed attacks? Just "armed" unarmed attacks (which include the monk's attacks AND natural attacks as seen above)?

I thought maybe an unarmed strike is an "unarmed" unarmed attack, but that is clearly not the case when you read the improved unarmed attack feat which states you are treated as armed when making an unarmed strike.

As with my previous posts an official answer would be greatly appreciated, but any pointers to specific pages in specific books would also be great.

Thanks.

let's say you have a fighter with TWF and he has a longsword +1 with speed (+3 bonus), and a shortsword with the same +1 and speed.

Does he get an extra attack for each weapon?

I would argue he does since the speed enhancement gives the weapon another attack, not another attack for his character.

The speed property does say that it doesn't stack with similar effects such as haste. However haste affects the character as apposed to a single weapon, so with two speed weapons stacking shouldn't even be an issue.

Any thoughts on this?

A couple of questions I'm hoping someone could answer. We are generating 3rd level characters and one of them will be a half-fiend. Since he has no HD the example in the beastiary for monstrous characters doesn't quite fit. So:

1. How many class levels does he get in a party of 3rd level PC's?

2. What would his starting XP be?

3. Does the CR bump equate to LA from 3.5?

4. If the CR bump does equate to LA, does that mean he effectively misses out on a class level when his CR goes from +1 to +2?

We basically get that the half-fiend will be getting less XP for his whole life, it's just the class / character progression which confuses us.

Thanks in advance.