| CDProtocol |
Hello again. As intimated last week, here are my thoughts on the Ninja.
Disclaimer: I will occasionally throughout the length of this writing make assumptions and GM based calls on how I personally interpret the language of the class. Everyone should feel free to hold their own opinions and continue to arbiter their own games as is appropriate for them.
Today I will be examining the ninja class under a single thesis question. That question is: Given the Ninja class, why would you play a Rogue ever again? As opposed to my dissertation on the samurai, I will not be tossing a ninja into random 1-on-1 fights against monsters from the beastiary to show their damage output compared to others of their archtype. For the most part, in terms of damage dealt the numbers for a ninja should look almost identical to a rogue of equivalent levels. So I'll begin by examining things from a fundamental level and then move on to some examples.
Weapon Proficiencies: I understand there's something of an argument circling around about the ninja weapon proficiencies. It definitely appears that ninja just get more various proficiencies than the rogue does, especially in the exotic weapon category. The argument about the katana is a matter of historical precedent compared to how the mythos has evolved over time. If you want to go with the katana as the noble weapon of the samurai, then a longsword proficiency could simulate the use of the straight-blade attributed to the ninja. Even discounting that though, there are still 5 exotic weapons and two martials as opposed to the rogue who gets 1 exotic and 4 martial weapons. Problem here is that by definition the ninja are commonly associated with these sorts of exotic weaopns and I could still make an argument for spiked-chain varieties to represent the various-gama class of weapons (chains with various pokey-slicey-crushy bits on the end). So what's the solution? I don't know, maybe strip off the ninja's use of simple weapons and give them a very narrow list? Just tossing it out there.
Advantage: As printed: Ninja.
Evasion Vs. Ki Pool: On the surface this trade-off seems balanced. Evasion is exceedingly useful to the early game survival of the rogue archtype so the ninja sacrifices some survivability for a little bit of utility and offense. Ok, no problem. Different spheres of focus right? Right. Except evasion is a lot easier to get from items, multiclassing into monk, or in the case of the Ninja: wait until level 10. This makes the apparent trade-off between ninja and monk seem like a mere inconvenience for awhile instead of an actual trade between the classes.
Advantage: Ninja.
Poison Use Vs. Trapfinding: Nothing much needs to be said here, there've been plenty of printed variants in the advanced player's guide that make the same kind of trade. Two highly specific abilities used in specific circumstances.
Advantage: Neither.
No Trace Vs. Trap Sense: Again, basically you're just switching the numbers for something slightly different. Seems pretty much in line with other variants we've seen before. Sure it makes the ninja even more difficult to pin down, but the way the stealth skill tends to exponentially skyrocket compared to opposed perception checks, I question if it would really matter. The other bonuses from No Trace are neat, but I wouldn't say they're more valuable than Trap Sense. Again, highly specific abilities used in specific circumstances.
Advantage: Neither.
Light Steps Vs. ...Um...: An extra ability the ninja seems to get. If you set the class tables right next to one another they almost read exactly the same in terms of progression except for this single ability. The ability isn't that bad either, thematically cool and can help the ninja cross certain areas that would be completely inaccessible by the rogue. Especially if they burn a ki point to get improved movement speed to cross up to 100 feet of say...lava, or acid pools without taking damage.
Advantage: Ninja.
Ninja Tricks Vs. Rogue Tricks: Ok, the big can of worms. First off, since there is promise of tons of new rogue tricks available in Ultimate Combat it seems a little unfair to be comparing these things right off the bat. So instead of trying to sound like I'm belaboring a horse to death with a battered bludgeon, I will just point out a few fundamental differences that should be addressed before the book is printed.
First off: Vanishing Trick and Shadow Clone. One of these abilities mimic a quickened 2nd level spells, never mind that they are two powerful (especially for a stealthy archtype) second level spells. A rogue can almost get something like Vanishing Trick by taking Minor Magic and then Major Magic to select Vanish as their first level spell (Advanced Player's Guide). But even that route would only allow the rogue up to 5 rounds of invisibility and even then once a day. The Ninja, on the other hand, can use his abilities as often as he has ki points, and can even use Vanishing Trick once per day for free and it lasts up to his level in rounds. I would challenge anyone to point to a currently printed rogue talent that can mimic something with the same power as Vanishing Trick or Shadow Clone. Everything I look at has a caveat of once per day, or other penalties.
This is actually endemic of the shift in power levels from a rogue to a ninja. While yes, several of the ninja talents all would draw from the same ki point pool, by that same token the ki point pool can be enhanced with feats, magic items to increase charisma, or if the GM is feeling particularly generous: magic items that enhance the ki pool. There seems to be a shift towards ability pools lately, be it Grit, Resolve, or what have you. I feel this is a good thing as it gives the players more choices in how to use their abilities in a given day and allows GMs to reward players in ways beyond simple treasure and experience...however as it stands the new classes with these abilities start to blow the old classes out of the water.
I am going to assume that in the new book we will see talents for rogue that are as thematically and mechanically pleasing as things like: Ki Charge, Smoke Bombs (and the various adders), Wall Climber, etc. But I will also point out that in the Greater Ninja Tricks, [/i]Invisible Blade[/i] effectively lets them use an 8th level spell with equal ease as Vanishing Trick, and grants them the rogue coup of prancing around the battlefield sneak-attacking whomever they please (assuming they don't counter it). Assassinate basically gives them a simpler version of the Rogue's level 20 ability or the Assassin's defining ability with much easier use (granted with less versatility). And lest we forget: the ninja can still buy off the disadvantage they traded by taking Evasion and if they really wanted, Improved Evasion from the Advanced Talents rogue list. Because lets not forget that Ninjas can take any rogue talent they would want if the ninja ones do not appeal to them.
Perhaps in the end that is actually a weakness of the ninja talents. Almost all of them are good. It's at the point where if I were to make a ninja all my feat choices would be Extra Talent (assuming that feat would apply to ninja) and Extra Ki.
As an aside, and I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere already, but what is the point of Forgotten Trick? I've read the ability about five times now and either I just don't get it or there is something missing from it. Choose a trick to choose a trick?
Advantage: Without a doubt: Ninja.
Hidden Master Vs. Master Strike: There's not much of an argument here. Here's why. The ninja ability states that when he activates his special extra-juicy version of greater invisibility, that he cannot be detected by any means. No perception checks, no spells listed, no extra-sensory abilities, one could even make an argument for mental detection at that point. The only way to counteract this would be a lucky area greater dispel which, even at a level 20 caster, the caster would need to roll an 11 to succeed. Or you can suppress it with an antimagic field or disjunction, if you know where to target of course. In addition, the ninja can also selectively remove 10 points (arguably more if he has something that increases precision damage) of any ability score without any save allowed. Here's a hint: Con. I would assume that this latter ability does not work on creatures that have crit/precision damage immunity, but at that point the ninja is suffering the same penalties as the rogue...but still gets to be supremely invisible for 20 rounds.
The rogue? The rogue's ability is nice, save vs. being immediately taken out of the fight. Assuming the foe in question is susceptible to sneak attacks and also fails his save. The rogue does not get to try again though if their foe makes a save, while the ninja can just keep stabbing until all six of the target's ability scores have been hamstrung quite hard. (I won't even get into the argument of how smart someone would fight with a 2 in Int and Wis). Also, if the ninja really wants to have a save or die stab, he can just take the assassinate greater trick.
Advantage: Ninja.
-------------------------------------
Disadvantage in Dungeon Delving Situations
The lack of trapfinding and trap sense seem a hindrance at first. But let's parse this out.
Level 1: Assume the ninja and the rogue both have a 20 dex, a 14 int, and 10 wis. Both have max ranks in Perception and Disable device. The perception and disable device DC for a level 1 trap is universally 20 from the traps listed in the core book. The rogue has a 1 point advantage from trapfinding at this time, giving him a +5 in perception to spot the trap, and a +9 to disable device checks discounting any extra feats or mundane equipment. The ninja would have +4 and +8 respectively.
Rogue: 25% chance to spot, 45% chance to disarm.
Ninja: 20% chance to spot, 40% chance to disarm.
Level 5: I'll assume they now both have a widgit of +2 dexterity and still have maximum ranks in their respective skills. The Rogue's bonus has now jumped to +10 perception to detect traps and +16 to disarm them. The ninja remains at +8 on perception, +14 on disarm checks. The CR5 mechanical trap still has a DC 20 to spot and disarm, the magical one is a DC 28.
Rogue: 50% chance to spot mechanical, 80% chance to disarm.
15% chance to spot magical, 35% chance to disarm.
Ninja: 40% chance to spot mechanical, 70% chance to disarm.
5% chance to spot magical. The ninja cannot disarm magical traps.
Level 10: Same assumptions. Max ranks, widgit of dexterity +4 and now stat points have risen their dex by another 2. Rogue's perception is now +18 to spot traps and +26 to disarm. The Ninja has +13 to perception and +20 to disarm them. The CR10 magical trap has a DC of 34 to spot and disarm. The mechanical trap has a DC of 25 to spot and 21 to disarm.
Rogue: 70% chance to spot mechanical, 95% chance to disarm.
25% chance to spot magical, 60% chance to disarm.
Ninja: 40% chance to spot mechanical, 95% chance to disarm.
5% chance to spot magical. The Ninja cannot disarm magical traps.
Level 15: Same verse same as the first...well third actually. Max ranks, widgits +6. I'll go ahead and throw in a widgit of wisdom +4 to help with perception checks. Obviously at this point they should probably have skill related items to help boost perception at the very least, but tossing +10 to both of their skill numbers would defeat the purpose of this example. The Rogue now has a +27 perception to spot traps, and +33 to disarm them. The ninja has +20 to perception and +26 to disarm. The mechanical trap for CR 15 is DC 30 perception, DC 20 disarm. There is no exact DC 15 magic trap, the average of the CR 14 and 16 is a perception and disarm DC of 32.
Rogue: 90% chance to spot mechanical, 95% chance to disarm.
80% chance to spot magical, 95% chance to disarm.
Ninja: 55% chance to spot mechanical, 95% chance to disarm.
45% chance to spot magical. The Ninja cannot disarm magical traps
Level 20: More of the same. Max ranks, widgits +6 each, no skill modifiers beyond ranks and stats. Oh and another +2 dex from leveled stat points putting their modified dexterity at a 30. The Rogue now has +36 on perception for traps, and +43 disable device. The Ninja has +26 on perception and +33 on disable device. There is no magical trap for CR 20, closest is DC 30 at CR 18. Average between it and the CR 20 magical trap is a DC 32 so we'll call it at that. The magical trap at CR20 is DC 34.
Rogue: 95% chance to spot mechanical, 95% chance to disarm.
95% chance to spot magical, 95% chance to disarm.
Ninja: 75% chance to spot mechanical, 95% chance to disarm.
65% chance to spot magical. The Ninja cannot disarm magical traps.
So, obvious argument of skill items aside (I'll get to that in a minute). The Ninja obviously trails behind on the rogue when it comes to finding traps and disabling them. At low levels his supposed weakness only trails the rogue by 5 percent, but as the bonus from Trapfinding grows its clear to see the discrepency grow. Especially with magical traps, which the ninja will never be able to disarm.
However.
The ninja can reasonably purchase away most of his perceived penalty with a 10,000 gp item to give him +10 to perception checks (all checks mind you, not just for trap spotting) and another 10,000 to help him with disable device. That plus a ring of evasion for 25,000 gp will effectively buy him Trapfinding (with a little extra on the skills, but still without the ability to disarm magical traps) and well...evasion. These are easily done by level 10 if you have a friendly wizard to help you craft. Or perhaps by level 12 or 13 for straight market cost.
Conversely.
There is no such item that would grant a rogue access to a ki pool. The closest thing I can find in a book would be boots of speed to grant them haste for 10 rounds a day. Which would give them extra AC, extra movement, and an extra attack at about the same frequency a ninja would get them. However there would be no way to increase the number of those rounds. A rogue can also take poison use through one of their variants or a prestige class, but there isn't anything I can find that allows them to just buy it for cost. Then again, the value of something like that is pretty arguable.
-------------------------------------
Feel like killing a PC? An encounter with a level 12 party
Alright that's enough of dry mechanics and textbook analysis. Let's see some ninja in action. My current campaign is taking my party into the oriental analogue in my world, wherein it would be quite possible for the party to be beset by ninjas and their shadowy overlords.
The party consists of (names and races have been altered to protect the identity of the adventurers):
Danzo - M Elf LN, 12 Fighter (2-Weapon Warrior variant)
Ingrid - F Half-Orc N, 1 Fighter/6 Sorcerer (Cold Element Bloodline)/5 Eldritch Knight
Horace - M Halfling CN, 3 Rogue/4 Sorcerer (Abyssal Bloodline)/5 Arcane Trickster
Udri - F Dwarf NG, 12 Cleric (Sun & Weather Domains)
Talon - M Half-elf LN, 5 Fighter/5 Rogue (Danzo's cohort via Leadership)
Kelly - F Human N, 10 Rogue (Ingrid's cohort via Leadership)
They will be ambushed by a group of 5 level 10 Ninja. In terms of raw experience rewards this puts the total XP for the encounter at 32,000 even, or halfway between a CR 13 &14 encounter. Should be a moderate challenge for this party. Keep in mind that under Pathfinder NPCs used in an encounter count as their class levels -1 for purposes of determining CR (unless they are equipped as PCs, which these folks won't be).
Here are the party's stat blocks. All PCs were crafted with 25 stat point buys.
Danzo - M Elf LN, 12 Fighter (2-Weapon Warrior variant)
STR: 20 [24 w/belt]
DEX: 16
CON: 12
INT: 14
WIS: 10
CHA: 10
Combat Block:
HP: 100
Init: +3
AC: 26 (Touch: 15, FF: 23; +2 dodge bonus on full attack)
CMD: 32
Fort: +12
Refl: +10
Will: +7 (+3 vs. fear, +2 vs. enchantment. Sleep immune.)
BAB: +12
Standard Action Attack: Both swords +21 (1d10 +13, 17-20/x2. Extra damage on evil/evil outsider targets)
Full Attack Action: Both Swords +23/+23/+18/+18/+13/+13 (1d10 +15, 17-20/x2. Extra damage on evil/evil outsider targets)
Abilities: Bravery +3, Defense Flurry (+2 dodge AC on full attack), Twin Blades (+2 atk/dam on full attack), Doublestrike (2 attacks on a standard attack), Improved Balance
Skills: Diplomacy +12, Intimidate +15, Knowledge (engineering) +17, Perception +14 Survival +15
Feats: Double Slice, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), Greater Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Critical (Bastard Sword), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword), Leadership, Power Attack, Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword).
Equipment: +2 holy bastard sword, +2 evil outsider bane bastard sword, +4 breastplate, ring of protection +2, belt of giant strength +4, cloak of resistance +3, boots of elvenkind, ring of feather falling.
Ingrid - F Half-Orc N, 1 Fighter/6 Sorcerer (Cold Element Bloodline)/5 Eldritch Knight
STR: 16
DEX: 14
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 20 [24 w/headband]
Combat Block:
HP: 84
Init: +2
AC: 24 (Touch: 15, FF: 22)
CMD: 24
Fort: +12
Refl: +9
Will: +10
BAB: +9
Standard Action Attack: Falchion +16 (2d4+9, 15-20/x2)
Full Attack Action: Falchion +16/+11 (2d4+9, 15-20/x2)
Abilities: Elemental Arcana (Any energy spell can become a cold typed spell), Elemental Ray (1d6 +3 cold damage, 10/day), Cold Resist 10.
Skills: Intimidate +22, Knowledge (Arcana) +10, Knowledge (Planes) +9, Spellcraft +10
Feats: Arcane Armor Training, Arcane Strike, Eschew Materials, Heighten Spell, Leadership, Power Attack, Spell Focus (Evocation), Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus (Falchion), Weapon Specialization (Falchion)
Spells: CL 10 (12 for SR checks), DC 17 + spell level (18 for evocation). Infinite/8/8/8/6/4
0-Arcane mark, detect magic, ghost sound, light, mage hand, mending, open/close, prestidigitation, read magic
1-Burning hands (Cold), disguise self, protection from evil, shield, true strike
2-Bull's strength, glitterdust, mirror image, invisibility, scorcing Ray (Cold)
3-Dispel magic, fireball, haste
4-Confusion, fire shield
5-Hold monster
Equipment: +3 keen falchion, +5 mithral chain shirt, ring of protection +3, cloak of resistance +4, Headband of Alluring Charisma +4
Horace - M Halfling CN, 3 Rogue/4 Sorcerer (Abyssal Bloodline)/5 Arcane Trickster
STR: 8
DEX: 18
CON: 14
INT: 11
WIS: 8
CHA: 21 [25 w/headband]
Combat Block:
HP: 88
Init: +8
AC: 23 (Touch: 17, FF: 18)
CMD: 22
Fort: +8
Refl: +11
Will: +12 (+2 vs. fear)
BAB: +6
Standard Action Attack: Rapier +12 (1d6+1, 17-20/x2)
Full Attack Action: Rapier +12/+6 (1d6+1, 17-20/x2)
Abilities: Evasion, Trapfinding (+1 perception/disable device on traps), trap sense +1, sneak attack +4d6, fast stealth, Abyssal Arcana (Summoned creatures get DR 2/good), Claws (1d4, free action, 10 rounds/day), ranged legerdemain, impromptu sneak attack 1/day, tricky spells 3/day
Skills: Acrobatics +19, Disable Device +15, Escape Artist +18, Knowledge (Arcana) +7, Perception +17, Spellcraft +11, Stealth +22
Feats: Dodge, Eschew Materials, Improved Initiative, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Spell Penetration, Toughness, Weapon Finesse
Spells: CL 9 (+2 for spell pen), DC 17+ spell level (+1 on conjuration). Infinite/8/8/8/5
0-Arcane mark, detect magic, light, mage hand, message, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic
1-Cause fear, identify, shield, shocking grasp, ray of enfeeblement, summon monster I
2-Acid arrow, cat's grace, mirror image, web
3-Dispel magic, lightning bolt, stinking cloud
4-Improved invisibility, summon monster IV
Equipment: +2 ghost touch rapier, bracers of armor +6, cloak of resistance +3, headband of alluring charisma +4, ring of protection +2, boots of elvenkind, ring of mind shielding
Udri - F Dwarf NG, 12 Cleric (Sun & Weather Domains)
STR: 10
DEX: 13
CON: 16
INT: 10
WIS: 20 [24 w/headband]
CHA: 14 [18 w/headband]
Combat Block:
HP: 86
Init: +5
AC: 29 (Touch: 12, FF: 28)
CMD: 20
Fort: +14 (+2 vs poison, +2 vs. spells)
Refl: +10 (+2 vs. spells)
Will: +18 (+2 vs. spells)
BAB: +9
Standard Action Attack: Longsword +10 (1d8 +1, 19-20/x2)
Full Attack Action: Longsword +10/+5 (1d8 +1, 19-20/x2)
Abilities: Channel Positive Energy 8d6 (DC 22, 9/day), Sun's Blessing (Add +12 to channel damage vs. undead, no channel resistance), Nimbus of Light (Daylight that damages undead. 12 rounds/day), Storm Burst (1d6+6 nonlethal. Target takes -2 on attacks. 10/day), Lightning Lord (Call Lightning but 12 bolts per day)
Skills: Diplomacy +15, Heal +18, Knowledge (Religion) +11
Feats: Alignment Channel, Extra Channel, Improved Channel, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Selective Channel
Spells: CL 12, DC 17 + spell level. Infinite/6+1/6+1/6+1/4+1/4+1/3+1
0-Create water, purify food & water, resistance, stabilize
1-Command, divine favor, endure elements, protection from evil (x2), remove fear, sanctuary
2-Consecrate fog cloud, hold person (x2), lesser restoration (x2), silence
3-Bestow curse, blindness/deafness, invisibility purge, prayer, protection from energy, remove curse, searing light
4-Cure critical wounds, fire shield, freedom of movement, holy smite, restoration
5-Break enchantment, flame strike, ice storm, raise dead, true seeing
6-Blade barrier, control winds, greater dispel magic, mass cure moderate wounds
Equipment: +4 full plate, +3 large steel shield, +1 defending longsword, boots of striding & springing, phylactery of positive energy channeling, headband of mental prowess +4 (Cha & Wis), ring of feather falling, cloak of resistance +3, ring of protection +1
And now the cohorts. For them I used the stat block: 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15. They also have gear valued for a heroic NPC instead of a PC.
Talon - M Half-elf LN, 5 Fighter/5 Rogue (Danzo's cohort via Leadership)
STR: 14
DEX: 18
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 8
Combat Block:
HP: 54
Init: +8
AC: 20 (Touch: 15, FF: 15)
CMD: 24
Fort: +8
Refl: +10
Will: +3 (+1 vs. fear, immune to sleep, +2 vs enchantment)
BAB: +8
Standard Action Attack: Short Sword +15 (1d6 +5, 19-20/x2), or Shortbow +13 (1d6, x3)
Full Attack Action: Short Swords +13/+13/+8 (1d6 +5/+4 offhand, 19-20/x2)
Abilities: Trapfinding, Sneak Attack +3d6, Uncanny Dodge, Trap Sense +1, Evasion, Bleeding Attack, Finesse Rogue, Bravery +1, Armor Training 1, Weapon Training +1 (short blades)
Skills: Acrobatics +17, Bluff +6, Intimidate +12, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +12, Perception +15, Sense Motive +7, Stealth +25, Use Magic Device +11
Feats: Dodge, Improved Initiative, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Mobility, Skill Focus (Stealth), Spring Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (short sword), Weapon Specialization (short sword)
Equipment: +1 short swords (x2), MW shortbow, +1 chain shirt, ring of protection +1, cloak of resistance +1, boots of elvenkind, potion of invisibility
Kelly - F Human N, 10 Rogue (Ingrid's cohort via Leadership)
STR: 12
DEX: 18
CON: 14
INT: 14
WIS: 8
CHA: 10
Combat Block:
HP: 83
Init: +4
AC: 21 (Touch: 16, FF: 15)
CMD: 22
Fort: +6
Refl: +12
Will: +3
BAB: +7
Standard Action Attack: Short Sword +13 (1d6+2, 19-20/x2) or Shortbow +12 (1d6, x3)
Full Attack Action: Short Swords +11/+11/+6 (1d6+2, 19-20/x2)
Abilities: Sneak Attack +5d6, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Trapfinding, Improved Evasion, Trap Sense +3, Bleeding Attack, Fast Stealth, Surprise Attack, Ledge Walker
Skills: Acrobatics +17, Appraise +13, Disable Device +17, Disguise +12, Escape Artist +17, Intimidate +13, Perception +16, Sense Motive +16, Sleight of Hand +17, Stealth +20, Use Magic Device +13
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Toughness, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Short Sword)
[/b]Equipment: [/b]+1 short swords (x2), MW shortbow +1 chain shirt, ring of protection +1, cloak of resistance +1, boots of elvenkind, potion of invisibility
So there's our party of intrepid (?) adventurers. Now let's look at the enemies. The enemies will also use the stat block: 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15. They also have gear valued for a heroic NPC instead of a PC.
Ninja - M or F Human N, 10 Ninja
STR: 12
DEX: 16
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 14
Combat Block:
HP: 80
Init: +7
AC: 19 (Touch: 14, FF: 16)
CMD: 20
Fort: +6
Refl: +11
Will: +3
BAB: +7
Standard Action Attack: Shortbow +12 (1d6 +1 [+1 within 30 ft], x3) or Short sword +11 (1d6 +1, 19-20/x2)
Full Attack Action: Shortbow +10/+10/+5 (1d6 +1 [+1 within 30 ft], x3) or Short sword +9/+9/+4 (1d6 +1, 19-20/x2)
Abilities: Sneak Attack +5d6, No Trace +3, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Light Steps, Ki Pool (7 points), Poison Use, Vanishing Trick, Deadly Range, Bleeding Attack, Weapon Training, Invisible Blade
Skills: Acrobatics +16, Bluff +15, Disguise +18, Escape Artist +16, Perception 12, Sleight of Hand +16, Stealth +16 (+3 when still), Use Magic Device +15
Feats: Improved Initiative, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Shortbow)
Equipment: +1 short bow w/40 arrows, MW short swords (x2), +1 chain shirt, ring of protection +1, cloak of resistance +1
Alright, let's get to the combat.
The place: A back street in a major bustling city. The street itself is fifteen feet wide, flanked on either side by shops and buildings averaging 8-10 feet tall. The party is walking down the street, the ninjas are positioned on the rooftops, lying still against the tiles. If I wanted to be especially cruel I could say that they used their Vanishing Trick while they moved into position before attacking, but let's just say they don't. I'll assume they have average result on their stealth checks and put the perception DC at a 29.
Perception checks: Talon: 30, Kelly: 26, Udri: 8, Danzo: 24, Ingrid: 17, Horace: 26. It should be pointed out that the characters in the party with high ranks in perception still have a less than 50% chance to see the ninjas. Talon is the only one who sees, so he gets to act in the surprise round.
SURPRISE ROUND
Initiative:
Ninja 2 - 25
Ninja 1 - 24
Ninja 3 - 23
Talon - 21
Ninja 4 - 20
Ninja 5 - 11
Layout: 3 ninjas on the western roof approximately 15 feet away from the center of the street, three on the eastern roof. The party is marching single-file down the alleyway (I know I know but I'm not uploading a paint map for this). Marching order is Danzo, Ingrid, Horace, Udri, Talon, Kelly. The ninja are all within 40 feet of the party.
Ninjas 1-3: Each use a swift action to use hidden blade to turn invisible and fire a single bow shot into the crowd. Let's assume they do not have any research of their foes beyond what is obvious. So they aim for the half-orc with the falchion , figuring her for the big nasty fighter type. 3 attacks: 17 (miss), 26 (hit), and 27 (hit). 23 damage from the first attack, 20 from the second for 43. Ingrid isn't looking so good and will also take 5 points of bleed damage on her turn.
Talon grits his teeth, cursing his lack of foresight and launches an arrow from his shortbow at one of the remaining visible ninjas. I could argue that they have cover from the awnings of the roof but we'll just say they don't. Talon rolls a 27 and hits easily, dealing 15 points of damage.
Ninjas 4&5 also use hidden blade and launch an arrow at Talon. They could press the attack on Ingrid and possibly kill her, but just to spread things out we'll say they don't. 2 attacks: 30 (hit) and 23 (hit). 24 and 20 points of damage for 44 total. Talon will also take 5 points of bleed on his turn. He is near death.
ROUND 1
The party joins the fray now.
Initiative:
Ninja 2 - 25
Ninja 1 - 24
Kelly - 23
Ninja 3 - 23
Talon - 21
Horace - 20
Ninja 4 - 20
Danzo - 16
Udri - 13
Ninja 5 - 11
Ingrid - 3
Ninjas 1 and 2 maintain an eerie sense of detached calm and focus their bows on Ingrid, both of them using Rapid shot and looking to end her life with a flurry of arrows ala the movie Hero on a much much smaller scale. 6 attacks total: 22 (hit), 16, 8, 25 (hit), 24 (hit), 9. 3 hits for 24, 21, and 23 damage. Totalling up the damage, Ingrid has taken 111 points of damage making her resemble a very gory pincoushin. Also, she is very, very dead.
Kelly screams obscenities at their unluck but has no way of determining where the invisible targets are so she holds her bow ready and delays.
Ninja 3 decides that with Ingrid down, now would be an excellent time to finish off Talon. He too uses rapid shot and fires away. 20 (hit), 17 (hit), 13 (miss). 2 more hits for 17 and 24 damage. Putting his total damage at 85, almost double his maximum hit points. He resembles a grease stain on the cobblestones.
Horace now goes. He cannot target any of the ninja for dispel magic so he tries to buy some time by launching a stinking cloud in the area where the two ninjas were (and are still) standing (these are the ones who have not taken shots yet). Ninjas fort saves: 18, 19. Both fail, becoming nauseated.
Ninja 4 is nauseated and uses his single action to move 30 feet down the rooftop and out of the range of the cloud. He will be nauseated for 1 more round.
Danzo is pissed as hell at losing his cohort but will wait for Udri's turn before acting...
Udri does have a true seeing so she moves to Danzo and casts it upon him, granting him the sight with which to slay his attackers
Danzo now tries to climb up the wall. I'll give the wall a DC 10 since there are some barrels and boxes around to stand on. He rolls a 14, making it up to the roof.
Kelly stops delaying at this point and fires a full round attack at Ninja 1. 2 attacks: 24 and 14. 1 hit for 5 damage.
Ninja 5 is also nauseated but still invisible, he moves in the opposite direction from his comrade and out of the cloud but is still nauseated for 4 rounds.
ROUND 2
Let's review. Ingrid and Talon are dead. Ninja 4 is nauseated for this round, Ninja 5 is nauseated for 4 rounds but both are invisible (and out of range of delivering sneak attacks with their bows). Danzo climbed up to the roof near Ninjas 1-3. Let's call it 5 and 10 and 15 feet away.
Initiative:
Ninja 2 - 25
Ninja 1 - 24
Ninja 3 - 23
Horace - 20
Ninja 4 - 20 (nauseated)
Danzo - 16
Udri - 13
Kelly - 12 (delayed)
Ninja 5 - 11 (nauseated)
Ninjas 2 and 1 both do not know that Danzo can see them now. The one that was closer to Danzo takes a 5 foot step away, they both unleash another full round of arrows into the elf. 6 attacks: 14, 27 (hit), 16, 29 (hit), 19, 22. 2 hits for 4 and 4 for 9 total. They seem confused that they did not get their sneak attack bonus.
Ninja 3 dislikes Horace's tricks. He ignores the elf for now and aims for the halfling. 3 attacks: 20, 24, 24. 3 hits against him for 25, 27, and 27 (Yes I rolled remarkably well for those). That's a total of 79 with another 5 points of bleed damage coming on his round
Horace's turn, he takes 5 points of damage (leaving him with 4 hp) and at this point his own survival instincts kick in and he moves next to the cleric. He also will cast mirror image on himself, giving himself 4 extra images.
Ninja 4 is nauseated, he spends his turn trying to prevent his innards from climbing up his throat and soiling a perfectly good black silk face mask. After 6 seconds, he feels much better
Danzo roars with anger and defiance and moves in to attack one of the ninjas while power attacking. His blades keen out, closing the 10 foot gap as he swings out twice. Crit threat (confirmed on a 34), and 23 will also hit. One crit for 58 and one regular hit for 23 for a total of 81 points of damage. Ninja 1 goes down.
Udri channels positive energy to hit Danzo and Horace. As a GM I make a call on her selective channeling, judging that since it works on life forces she can still use selective channel. She leaves out the damaged ninja and heals 20 points to Danzo and Horace.
Kelly tries for a perception check against one of the snipers, rolling a 26 and manages to pinpoint Ninja 3 in his square. She fires twice rolling a 16 and a natural 20 (which does not confirm on a 14). Miss chance does not negate her hit, so she deals 4 points of damage.
Ninja 5 will remain nauseated and generally have a very large frown on his face as his bowels tie themselves in a knot that would make Alexander the Great cringe.
ROUND 3
Ok. Kelly has pinpointed the square Ninja 3 is in. Danzo has killed Ninja 1 and is looking to murder Ninja 2. Horace is at 24 hit points, Danzo is at full. Ninja 4 is no longer nauseated, ninja 5 still has 3 rounds.
Initiative:
Ninja 2 - 25
Ninja 3 - 23
Horace - 20
Ninja 4 - 20
Danzo - 16
Udri - 13
Kelly - 12 (delayed)
Ninja 5 - 11 (nauseated)
Ninja 2 now realizes Danzo can see them and moves back rapidly to be next to Ninja 3. He also fires a shot at Danzo as he does, rolling a 24 and missing. He then prepares to stand against Danzo who will likely turn the other ninjas into deli-sliced ninja ham.
Ninja 3 hones in on Horace, firing 3 more shots at 27, 30, and 9. 2 hits on his mirror images. He is now down to 2 more images.
Horace takes some time to catch his breath and also get some defense by casting greater invisibility on himself and moving somewhat.
Ninja 4 puts some arrows into Kelly, deciding that it is time for her to disappear. Fortunately she has uncanny dodge so she won't be eating the sneak attack damage. 3 attacks: 20, 27, and 10. 2 hits for 6 and 3 damage.
Danzo moves in, closing the distance to Ninja 2 and makes some more attacks with power attack. 2 attacks: 30, 35. 2 hits for 23 and 22 points of damage.
Udri opts to aim a greater dispel magic at the place where arrows shot at Kelly with an area dispel. She rolls a 26 to dispel, ninja 4 becomes visible again.
Kelly turns to the ninja and launches some arrows of her own, rolling a 13 and 24. 1 hit for 5 points of damage.
Ninja 5 really wishes he could help out in this situation, but he is still trying to keep his gut in this dimension.
ROUND 4
The party is beginning to recover at this point. Danzo has reduced Ninja 2 to 35 hit points. Horace is now invisible and unable to be seen by any of the ninja while he recuperates. Udri still has plenty of healing. At this point it would be wise for the ninjas to engage in strafing tactics to try and pick off Udri but we'll see what happens. Ninja 5 is nauseated for 2 rounds still.
Initiative:
Ninja 2 - 25
Ninja 3 - 23
Horace - 20
Ninja 4 - 20
Danzo - 16
Udri - 13
Kelly - 12 (delayed)
Ninja 5 - 11 (nauseated)
Ninja 2 and 3 now realize that Udri is the healer of the party and focus their shots on her, figuring if they can get her down before Danzo works his way through them, they'll be able to pick off the remainder of the party at their leisure. 6 attacks: 28, Crit Threat (not confirmed), 22, 21, 31, 27. 2 hits for 23 and 18 for a total of 41 damage with an additional 5 coming to her on her turn.
Horace reviews his options. He can see Ninja 4 so he opts to throw another stinking cloud on him. Ninja 4 fails his roll on a 7.
Ninja 4 moves out of the new cloud and will remain nauseated for 2 rounds. He is very unhappy to boot.
Danzo moves up to Ninja 2 again, a grin of death on his face as he continues to power attack and slash. 2 attacks: 34, crit threat (confirmed on a 32). 22 and 42 damage. Ninja two is severed neatly in half, with bits of him raining down to the street below.
Udri opts to channel again, catching herself, Kelly and Horace and selectively leaving out any damaged ninjas. They are each restored 25 points of damage.
Kelly aims some bow shots at the nauseated ninja 4, rolling a 21 and 7. 1 more hit for 2 points of damage.
Ninja 5 remains nauseated, but he can see the way things are going and begins to move further away from the conflict, looking for escape.
By this point it is safe to say that Danzo will continue mopping up any ninja who is foolish enough to remain while True Seeing is still active. Horace will continue throwing stinking clouds where he can or use summon monster for additional support. I will award victory to the party at this point by having the ninja engage in a retreat. If they escape, the three remaining ninja may return to attack them before they can rest, once Danzo is lacking the true seeing to handle them.
Breakdown: First, the ninja were definitely at an advantage with the surprise round, but even without that their initiative numbers were high enough that they would have a good chance to eliminate Ingrid in the first round. If Udri did not have true seeing prepared that day, the ninjas would have continued to eliminate Danzo and then systematically work their way through the rest of the party. Even with greater dispel magic, any ninja with the hidden blade talent (and why wouldn't you have it?) can just toss up a quickened greater invisibility again. Keep in mind that these were NPC ninjas, regular wimps designed to be thrown at the party in droves, or at least a couple added on to an encounter here and there. If this was say...4 ninjas and a sorcerer with similar spell selection to Horace...or heck, if the ninjas had wands of dispel magic to get rid of Danzo's true seeing...All I'm saying is as it is...one spell and a surprise round made this encounter. Yes you can make arguments for fighters to have potions of see invisibility, but that will only give them three rounds per standard rules and if you have extra ninja to spare...Blindfight would work, though not for this fight since it doesn't protect vs. ranged attacks.
I suppose what I take away from this is the self-sufficient ability to cast a quickened greater invisibility is a coup and can make your encounter much nastier than you may expect.
Then again, Blind-Fighting removes a lot of the ninja's advantage if they aren't ranged focused. Perhaps the balance of your cooler tricks being negated with a single feat was something the developers had in mind? A question for the ages.
-------------------------------------
Real Ultimate Power
Meet Makoto, a level 20 ninja. Her clan has been beset by demons for generations and she has built herself up as a slayer of demons. Here is her abridged character sheet (built with 20 points, yes I adapted her from Tanaka from my other review):
STR: 16 [20 w/belt]
DEX: 26 [30 w/belt]
CON: 16 [20 w/belt]
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 10 [16 w/headband]
Her equipment:
+5 holy cold iron short swords (x2) - 200,620 gp
+5 Greater Shadow Improved Fire Resist Mithral Chain Shirt - 102,000 gp
+4 Shortbow - 32,330 gp
Headband of Alluring Charisma +6 - 36,000 gp
Belt of Phys. Perfection +4 - 64,000 gp
Cloak of Resistance +5 - 25,000 gp
Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone - 30,000 gp
Ring of Protection +5 - 50,000 gp
Ring of Evasion - 25,000 gp
Amulet of Nat. Armor +5 - 50,000 gp
Winged Boots - 16,000 gp
Manuals - 220,000 gp
Other Gear - 29,050 gp
Feats:
Human Bonus Improved Initiative
1st level Weapon Finesse
3rd level Two-Weapon Fighting
5th level Weapon Focus (Short Sword)
7th level Toughness
9th level Dodge
11th level Improved Critical (Short Sword)
13th level Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
15th level Stealthy
17th level Alertness
19th level Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Tricks (13 ki points): Vanishing Trick, Fast Stealth, Shadow Clone, Smoke Bombs, Hidden Blade, Blinding Bomb, Sudden Disguise, Ghost Step, See the Unseen.
Skills: Let's say she took the favored class bonus every level for an extra skill point.
Acrobatics 20 ranks +10 dex +3 trained = +33
Bluff 20 ranks +3 cha +3 trained = +26
Climb 20 ranks +5 str +3 trained = +28
Disguise 20 ranks +3 cha +3 trained +6 no trace = +32
Disable Device 20 ranks +10 dex +3 trained = +33
Escape Artist 20 ranks +10 dex +4 feat +3 trained = +37
Perception 20 ranks +0 wis +4 feat +3 trained = +27
Sleight of Hand 20 ranks +10 dex +3 trained = +33
Stealth 20 ranks +10 dex +4 feat +15 armor +3 trained = +52 (+6 while motionless)
Use Magic Device 20 ranks +3 cha +3 trained = +26
Hit Points: Assume max for 1st level and average for every other roll
8+4.5(x19)+100 (con) +20 (toughness) = 213(.5) hit points.
She is primarily a two-weapon fighter, but resorts to bow shots when necessary.
Attack Bonus with her short swords is: +15 BAB +10 DEX +1 Weapon Focus +5 enhancement bonus, -2 dual-wielding = +29/+29/24/+24/+19/+19
Damage line for his katana is: 1d6 +10 (+7 on offhand) +2d6 vs evil (17-20/x2)
AC: 35 (+9 armor, +6 dex, +5 deflection, +5 natural)
CMD: 40 (+15 BAB, +5 STR, +10 DEX)
Her saves are:
Fort: +16
Refl: +27
Will: +11
Just for a lark, let's say she goes and infiltrates a Balor's stronghold on her earthly plane. Let's assume this place is filled with guards, some magical traps and mundane traps. Even if she rolls a 1 on stealth, only the Balor can detect her and even then only has a 25% chance to succeed. But, say she has to avoid some pitfalls and magic seals and whatnot. Let's say she blows 5 points of her ki pool using improved invisibility and ghost step to circumvent traps and make it to the Balor's sanctum. She is now in the room, hiding comfortably as she observes him. In the optimum of situations she is able to use Hidden Master and calmly sneak up beside him, unleashing a single attack in the surprise round. Since she cannot be detected by any means, not even sipdey sense can allow the Balor to detect her.
Let's continue to use average rolls. On a 10, Makoto will hit the Balor's flat-footed AC. She will opt to ignore her extra damage dice and instead deal 10 points of juicy con damage to the balor. In addition to 20 points of damage from her blade, the Balor also loses 100 hit points from his con damage.
Initiative happens. Once again, average rolls, Makoto goes first. On a roll of a 10 she will hit on every single attack. Each attack will deal 55 points of damage. That is a total of 330 points of damage. The Balor is dead in approximately 9 seconds from when she started. Afterwards, she makes her reflex save on a 10 to avoid his death throes taking no damage, and prances her way out the way she came, running at maximum speed and ghost-stepping through walls until she is a safe distance away. Or, if she has a scroll of teleport, she uses it on an average skill check result and disappears.
Ok, fine...but she's specialized to fight against demons. Let's do a Solar instead.
Makoto infiltrates the heavens themselves, her stealth score easily keeping her hidden and her natural invisibility helping her to move from cover to cover. The Solar has to roll a natural 20 to detect Makoto if she gets close enough. Again, let's say she uses 5 points of her ki pool evading patrols, walking through walls, and the like. She is now in the room where the Solar is leading a prayer to the gods of goodness and light. Once again, she fires off Hidden Master and walks calmly up to the Solar.
Makoto still manages to hit on an average roll of a 10, but her weapon doesn't overcome DR this time. She'll have to keep 1d6 sneak attack in order to deal enough damage to overcome the Solar's DR. So that's only 88 points of hit points removed from massive con loss. Oh and another 1 point of damage from the sword slice.
Makoto wins initiative again. This time she has a harder time of it, slicing away with basic rolls she will only hit on her first two attacks for another 80 points of damage total. About a third of the Solar's hit points gone. She would not be able to assassinate him easily with her current set up since the Solar would be able to simply heal itself while he waited for Makoto's invisibility to wear off.
Still, in 9 seconds, she reduced the HP of a CR 23 creature by 1/3. Nothing to shake a stick at, but considering that the solar would laugh off the save or die attack of a rogue, it further serves to how Hidden Master can be used to great effect.
Still not convinced? Let's look at what havoc a ninja can accomplish amongst her own kind. Makoto is sent to assassinate the Shogun, Tanaka. For the Shogun I'll just use the stats I have for a level 20 samurai from my other review. He also has a cadre of 6 level 15 guards (also pulled from my samurai review). They are currently holding war council in his chambers. And just for added fun let's say he has four braziers of revealing that put out constant invisibility purges every round. One in each corner of the room.
Makoto sneaks into the room using ghost step. As humans without ranks in perceptions, the samurai gathered have no chance to detect her as long as there is anything for her to hide behind (like a brazier for instance). Hidden Master time.
Here's how it goes down.
Surprise round on Shogun Tanaka. Makoto can easily hit him even on a 10. That's 120 on the first attack. Three more strikes when she wins initiative (and the odds are typically in her favor) and he goes down.
Their shogun suddenly murdered in a locked room, any samurai who is foolish enough to rush to their master's side is similarly cut down with three strokes. 75+20 on the first attack, then 55 damage a piece until the samurai go down (average of four total strikes). It will take her some time, and of course that's assuming no crits. But the ONLY way that I can see for a ninja in Hidden Master to be countered is with disjunction, targeted dispel magic, or an antimagic field.
So approximately half a minute later when all the samurai in the room are dead, Makoto disappears through a wall and escapes, leaving 7 bodies in a locked room for investigators to puzzle over.
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is...with a little bit of research, a level 20 ninja can conceivably single-handedly kill (almost) any monster or NPC in the book. She would probably fall short on the Shoggoth or anything else that was immune to critical hits and sneak attacks, but otherwise...dragons, devils, demons, celestial beings. And this is just a single ninja. If she had a twin sister? Well...the numbers are all here, if you want to see try it out for yourself.
-------------------------------------
Concepts & Conclusion
Once again I will say that this is the best representation of a Ninja that I've seen. Largely accurate from a historical basis, while capturing much of the mythos presented in contemporary media without delving into the ridiculous gimmicks of Naruto or Basilisk. That being said, I'm beginning to think the class is simply too darn good. My knowledge of ninja is not nearly as deep as my knowledge on samurai, but I do know that their skill sets are based largely in sabotage (check) and stealth (double-check). One thing I dug up in research on the ninja for this review is that there is apparently precedence for historical ninja to be quite the outdoorsman as well. Not sure if it really meshes with the flavor of the class as presented, but it's something to think about.
Actually, and I don't usually say this, I was quite impressed by the information available on Wikipedia.
Go check it out if you haven't already, and if you like what you read there...check out some of the references at the bottom of the page.
As for my original thesis, I think the answer is: I have no idea. I have faith that the rogue tricks presented in the book will be of a similar level to the ninja ones we're seeing, but it really doesn't lend credence to playing a rogue if Ninja have access to all of them as well. My knee-jerk reaction is to say drop the ability for ninjas to pick up rogue talents, but that's only one facet of the larger gem. Even if we remove tricks from both classes entirely, we're left with Ninja getting an extra ability (Light Steps), a more versatile ability (Ki Pool), more weapon proficiencies, and a better level 20 ability. Not to mention it is fairly easy for them to buy off their disadvantages.
So that's it. A lot of it's probably already been said out there but I think the louder and more resonant the voice, the better.
Kevin (CDP)