Brownout's page

i really like this concept especially the bit about the possibility of evil outsider versions

tejón wrote:

The only proficiency change anywhere would be that elves get the recurve bow. Yes, bards and rogues lose strength bows... no, I don't think it matters one whit. :) (On a completely unrelated note, why don't monks have shortbow proficiency?)

The yumi has a rather prominent recurve, you lying bastard.

http://www.woodbows.com/images/yumi1l.jpg

http://www.samurai-weapons.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/kyudo-yumi.jpg

http://www.mardb.com/kyudo/photos/KyudoFirstposition.jpg

Where is this prominent recurve?

Recurve: http://www.classic-bow.com/catalog/images/0367_recurve_bow.jpg

dude the first one of those links isnt a traditional yumi and the next two both are recurve

tejón wrote:

After this thread and some research, here's my suggestion for revising bows:

Shortbow remains exactly as it is.

Composite shortbow is removed.

Composite longbow renamed to "recurve bow" and no longer counts as a longbow for feats, etc.; otherwise unchanged.

Longbow changes in the following ways: 1d10 damage, 150' range, inherent +2 Strength modifier (same rules as composite bow, but the amount of the modifier cannot be changed). Longbows larger/smaller than Medium increase/decrease the inherent Strength modifier by +2 per size category.

In terms of proficiency, would classes having access to shortbows only (and therefore composite shortbows as well) have access to the recurved bow?

If so, are we still stuck with a weapon (the short bow) that will virtually never be used by PC?

If not, wouldn't it deny rogues and bards from having access to bonus damage from high STR with bows? (and would it be a big deal? Any elven character would would be likely to use a bow gets the proficiency as a racial trait anyway)

'findel

if u look at the elf it specifies that they gain bow proficiency and in parenthasies says (including composite versions) niether the rogue or the bard have composite versions listed so i would assume they cant use them so this would mean nothing changed for rogues or bards if i am right. and either way it makes the elf proficiencies matter much more for a high str rogue or bard which i think is good

dire hobbit i checked out that site and i think i would have to agree with u almost all of the horse bows i have found are 54" + and 4 1/2 ft is closer to 5ft (pathfinders longbow) than it is to 3 ft (pathfinders shortbow) so i would classify them as longbows

i have been directed to this website by a friend that has been working ont replicating native american tools weapons and living structures for the past 7 years.

http://www.krackow.com/nativeamerican.html

the longest bow i have found used on horse back is made by the cherokee tribes and yes it was fired from horse back this is a 60" self bow (1 piece of wood all the way through) and guess what the long bow in the pathfinder book says it is "at almost 5 feet in hieght" which means it is shorter than this bow

i am sorry it turns out the shorter bow i mentioned earlier for the mongols is a specialty bow the bows they fired from horses were the longer one i mentioned

i came across that while researching as well i looked into it a little further and the japanese bow u are speak of was generally shot from a still horse. it was to long to switch sides on the horse with any kind of speed. so while the concept of the longbow mounted option is awesome it would just be hard to make it work in dnd if u are trying to capture any kind of realism

i was in tejons game last night when this came up so this afternoon i have been researching it. after a good 2 hrs of research (alot of which was in mongolian horse archers) i have found suficient info to make my decision on this subject

the mongolian horse archers almost always caried two or more composite bows. 1 short bow for mounted archery and one longer bow for firing from the ground both bows were recurve composite bows.

the short bow was between 2'8 and 3' tall on average and could produce much more power and around thhe same distance as the english longbow (generally seen as less acurate)

the longbow had a height ranging frome 4'4" to as much as 4'10" (keeping in mind that this is still a recurve bow. the actuall length is even longer). this bow was not shot in the same way as the english longbow. it was generally fired at a slightly turned angle held off the ground while standing.

my conclusion after having called a friend that makes bows consulted the encyclopedia and done reaserch online is simple

composite longbows, even though shorter than the english longbow, should not be able to be fired from a mount.

copied straight from apg

BAB: This is the eidolon’s base attack bonus. An
eidolon’s base attack bonus is equal to its Hit Dice.
Eidolons do not gain additional attacks using their
natural weapons for a high base attack bonus.

the ediolon should only be getting 3 attacks because the high base attack bonus doesnt give ediolons extra attacks per round and as far as the other problem is concerned i would do two things 1st i would really penalize the creature for being large by mkeing smaller areas and encourage other players to use it as cover thus making things target it more 2nd i would make the player choose either bite or claws and make the other a secondary attack regardless of what the apg says they are because then it would be much more reasonable. also if u play again have the cavalier player write up a standard fighter at the same level as the ediolon instead of the cavalier because a fighter made right would easily out shine the ediolon there are alot of feats that allow the fighter to stand out just by having other options one of which is the grapple build or two weapon fighting with a main hand weapon and a net held in a hand with a spiked gauntlet (not a heavy dmg build but will stand out as a very well made control build. once the net is thrown he switches to beating on the guy with say his mace and spiked gauntlet).

all that said i actually do agree that the ediolon is a bit too powerful if u include all of the summoners other options. but those are just a few things that i think will help

I think the witch should have a monkey familiar on its list. the whole concept of a jungle witch seems to need that option.

I think that just adding the standard action cast to the class ability would be a good balance because u can use the summon immediately which makes it good at lvl 1. An immediate attack from a riding dog which if hits can trip is really solid.

i would still be happy even if u dont further change the abilty at all because as written it is really good class but i thought this might be something to think about