I think the clockwork is what gives it the Slashing trait, which to be honest I don't think adding a trait like that is worth the 8 extra levels and 500 gold.
Honestly I have just disregarded the Clockwork Macuahuitl at this point. I feel like it contradicts itself, especially when you put it next to another piece of clockwork such as the Clockwork Diving Suit. I feel like this suit of armor is infinitely more complex than the Macuahuitl and is only level 6 costing 200gp....
I may just drop the trait but keep the flavor text as you recommended, the weapon being clockwork is the most important part of it because of the theme of the character/campaign. Having an upgrade option for later on is a good idea as well.
Thank you so much for all your feedback, this will be extremely helpful when I discuss this with my DM this weekend.
No, I dont intend to sell it but I do intend to craft it, so price and Item level to toward determining DC and time to craft. That what I was referring to when I was talking about Uncommon vs Rare, +2 or +4 to DC to craft/repair. Probably could have been more clear about that particular point. Sorry.
Thank you for pointing out that chart to me, that will be helpful in determining price! I had not seen that before. Now to just figure out the item level.
What do you think about the cost of 80gp and it being a level 2 item? After looking at some of the other clockwork items, I am starting to feel like level 2 might be a bit low unfortunately, especially when I look at the crafting DC required at level 2. Maybe level 3 or 4? I know increasing it rarity to uncommon or rare would help this. Do you think that would be enough?
* How does it compare to just having two weapons?
I hadn't thought about that, do you think it would be better if it was a 2-action interact to change forms?
* How does it compare to the shifting rune?
Its text is a modified copy of the shifting rune, and an inspiration for the idea of having a weapon that can do what it does, but without magic and in a far more limiting capacity. I am still unsure if 1/3 of the price and level of the shifting rune is a bit high, especially when you take into account just how many two-handed weapons there are that I wont have access too and that other dual-form weapons exist for a fraction of what this weapon cost (the firearm/melee weapons).
* What weapons, damage, and weapon traits are available.
Trip and Disarm are the main traits I am seeking on the Meteor Hammer... I consider reach to just be a really nice bonus, but pretty much spot on. Also just love picturing my character swinging a huge metal ball around... lol
* How does this compare to the Inventor class and Weapon Innovation?
I am actually playing a Barbarian/Inventor. I have looked at the weapon innovation several times, and to be honest for the role I play in the group (meat wall) and the fact that I don't want to just be a smashing barbarian (I want to do trip/disarm) the armor just does a far better job in helping me fill these roles.
I am about to start a steam punk campaign and have never played anything steam punk before. I am wanting to lean into the steam punk theme by crafting my own clockwork weapon that can change form between 2 or 3 different weapons.
My GM and I are going to get together this weekend to discuss it and hammer out the details but to be honest neither of us have much experience in creating custom items like this for a game, and I really want to make sure I can keep it balanced so I would like to get some feed back from others who do have experience in such matters.
How would you determine cost/item level? Like I have been using other similar items/rules from the game to guide me but this Clockwork Macuahuitl weapon really skews the numbers I have been figuring. A clockwork diving suit for example, which in my opinion would have to be far more complicated piece of machinery, is 2 levels less and requires less than half the gold of this weapon. Then there are the firearms that are combined with various types of melee weapons (effectively two weapons in one) that only cost around 10-13gp and are level 1.
What I have:
Clockwork Weapon
Price 80gp; Bulk 2; Hands 2; Group Varies
Proficiency: Martial Weapons
Change Form
Activate (1 action) Interact; With a moment of manipulation, you can shift this weapon into a different weapon with a similar form.
Effect The weapon takes the shape of a Greatsword or Meteor Hammer. The weapon’s runes and any precious material it’s made of apply to the weapon’s new shape. Any property runes that can’t apply to the new form are suppressed until the item takes a shape to which they can apply.
The weapon must be charged with a special cranking key crafted at the same time as the weapon once a day, usually during daily preparations.
I based the cost and level off of 1/3 the cost and level of a Shifting rune. Since I am restricting what it can change into down to two, maybe three forms I though a reduction in both would be appropriate.
@Breighauptclan Thank you for pointing out the gnome feat, I will also repost in the homebrew section since that is what this question has turned into. Thank you!
I had not looked at those traits, thank you for pointing them out!
The character this is for is a dual class (we have a small party) Barbarian/Inventor. I have built him like 3 times with the weapon innovation but to be honest I really don't like the breakthrough option it offers and the armor helps my athletics check which will be helpful for trip/disarm. I am also the group tank so the upgrades I can get with the armor will be helpful in keeping me alive.
I didn't notice the Gearblade either, thank you again for that!
Thank you for the replies, I am mainly asking because I am about to start a steam punk campaign and have never played anything steam punk before. I am wanting to lean into the steam punk theme by crafting my own clockwork weapon that can change form between 2 or 3 different weapons.
My GM and I are going to get together this weekend to discuss it and hammer out the details but to be honest neither of us have much experience in creating custom items like this for a game, and I really want to make sure I can keep it balanced so I would like to get some feed back from others who do have experience in such matters.
How would you determine cost/item level? Like I have been using other similar items/rules from the game to guide me but this clockwork weapon really skews the numbers I have been figuring. A clockwork diving suit for example, which in my opinion would have to be far more complicated piece of machinery, is 2 levels less and requires less than half the gold of this weapon. Then there are the firearms that are combined with various types of melee weapons (effectively two weapons in one) that only cost around 10-13gp and are level 1.
What I have:
Clockwork Weapon
Price 80gp; Bulk 2; Hands 2; Group Varies
Proficiency: Martial Weapons
Change Form
Activate (1 action) Interact; With a moment of manipulation, you can shift this weapon into a different weapon with a similar form.
Effect The weapon takes the shape of a Greatsword or Meteor Hammer. The weapon’s runes and any precious material it’s made of apply to the weapon’s new shape. Any property runes that can’t apply to the new form are suppressed until the item takes a shape to which they can apply.
The weapon must be charged with a special cranking key crafted at the same time as the weapon once a day, usually during daily preparations.
Can anyone please tell me why this weapon is level 8 and 550gp? Comparing it to a Greatclub, the only difference is remove the trait Shove and add Forceful and Versatile. It does have the clockwork trait as well but from what I can see that doesn't do/give anything to the weapon other than flavor. Is flavor really worth that much in gold and levels?
@BadBird Yea, I do wish the shortspear was better but its a small sacrifice to make the character what I want. Two-Weapon Rend was added to the list, I am hoping to be able to bypass the need for Double Slice as a prereq since the way we play is that heroes are ambidextrous and should be able to do the same amount of damage regardless of which arm you are using....
@Rogar Stonebow I do like the idea of being able to apply my feats to more than one weapon but if I can roll good enough stats then I will not be going with a dex build (helps to free up some feat slots)
@LuxuriantOak I want to build this guy as a two-weapon fighting I am just trying to find out if there are other feats that I am unaware of that would help to debuff my target for the group. I know that Shatter Defenses only makes the target flat footed against me but that will help me keep other debuffs up as well as bull rushing the enemy into a wall and making them prone. Though since the discovery of the Phalanx Soldier I have been thinking a build that that would be fun as well.
Thanks for the advice every one, if you got more keep it coming!
@chbgraphicarts The way that I envision this character fighting I thought that Two-Weapon Fighter was a better fit, I like the idea of wielding a normal spear (don't want a long spear because then I cant shield bash). I was thinking of using a shortspear stats and just saying its about 5 to 5 1/2 feat long.
Some of the feats you listed in your two-weapon build would definitely help fulfill the flavor I am looking for. As for warpriest, I thought about that but didn't think it fit very well this the loose backstory I have for him, a soldier from Rahadoum.
@Arachnofiend To be honest Dazzling Display was really only picked up because its a prereq, its actually the only feat I have chosen that I don't plan on using. I like the idea of having targeted strike. I will definitely look more into that!
@blackbloodtroll A dex could be viable depending on how my stats actually turn out when ever I play this guy and roll them, however I would be losing alot I feel like in that build just to be able to apply my dex instead of str to all of those weapons. Though I do like the unique approach to being able to apply my dex to so many weapons that I normally couldn't. I will definitely have to keep that in mind for a future build.
@LoneKnave I never knew that item/feat existed! d20pfsrd isn't all that great at updating their site I have been noticing....
I am trying to keep this guy limited to a single class and keep him fighter. I love playing martial classes and yet some how I have yet to ever play a fighter.... I was looking at the Martial Master archetype as well though.... I notice a lot of the recommendations for debuffing are for other classes, do fighters not have a whole lot available to them for debuffing?
So I am working on another character concept build. I am modeling his fighting style after the movie 300. He will wield a shortspear and shield and while his damage probably wont be as good as a two-handed build I want him to be able debuff as well. This is what I have so far and was wondering if any one knows of any other ways for a fighter to debuff.
Level & Feat
1. Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting
2. Weapon Focus (Spear)
3. Power Attack
4. Improved Bull Rush
5. Intimidating Prowess
6. Shield Slam
7. Cornugon Smash
8. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9. Dazzling Display
10. Greater Bull Rush
11. Shatter Defenses
12. Shield Master
13. Iron Will
14. Savage Display
15. Improved Iron Will
16. Step Up
17. Toughness
18. Following Step
19. Combat Reflexes
20.
What my thinking is that I get them shaken with Cornugon Smash and then on the following attack they gain the sickened condition as well as flat-footed against me, which makes it easier to keep shaken and sickened on them. Also makes it easier for me to bull rush them into a wall and make them go prone. This is my 1st attempt at a some what debuff build.
Bodhizen: I have really like both of your guides I have seen, this and the paladin guide. I was wondering if you have created any others and if so do you have a spot where I can look at them all. I like that when I read your guide I don't feel like I am reading something that just tells me how to min/max.
I was thinking of getting an agile weapon to free up the feat. Think I am better off taking Fencing Grace instead? Also every feat that has (class) next to it is a class chosen feat
@Master - I also forgot about the rules of rolling for the effects of what a stone does when it gets put into a wayfinder. So when I find a shop that sells alot of Ioun stones I could potentially walk in and be like may I try them and esentially put them in my wayfinder one by one until I find a different Ioun stone that is usefull and gives me the desired effect (kinda like the +5 Knowledge one).
@Rynjin - While snake style is awesome, another problem I face is that as a Inspired Blade Swashbuckler I only get weapon finesse with rapiers, and str is going to be a dump stat. So the AoO become useless since I will probably not be able to hit AND my damage is going to be absolutely terrible with it.
@BadBird - That is kind of what I am going for, a character who does his normal attack but then when he is being attacked by an enemy he has alot of tools in his belt to counter attack/evade the attack and get AoO while doing it. as a rapier wielding character my damage will never be able to match that of a barbarian, fighter or most other melee classes however what I can do is widdle them down. I want to be hitting him so much that between taunting the enemy and hitting so much that they are terrified to attack another character and give me the advantage of flanking them from behind.
Some other considerations for this character is that he is going to be a vampire spawn, though not a full spawn. Back story is he went through a partial resurrection via a wish spell and the caster was attacked half way through the process thus not being able to be fully restored, as such he was partially restored to a vampire spawn, probably take undead traits and every vampire weakness. Hoping to pick up 1 or two vampire perks to balance me back out but if I an denied that and just have to be undead with vampire weaknesses I am ok with that. I build my characters with a 25 pt buy but we usually roll our stats, and usually roll pretty damn well, so the stats below are just kind of a way for me to see about where I will be. Here is what I have so far for the character concept build, obviously some of this will be changed depending on the campaign but I still like having a general idea of how I am gonna build:
Race: Aasimar (Azata-Blooded)
+1 will saves instead of SLA
Exalted Resistance
Scion of Humanity (Azlanti Blood for flavor)
Truespeaker
Starting Ability Scores (25 pt buy): Str 10 Dex 18 Con - Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 16
Some of the feats are just fillers that I felt weren't terrible choices until I can figure out something better. There are definetly other feats I want but am super feat starved with this guy, thus why I was wondering about trying to find other ways to get the prerequirements for he Crane Style chain. Thought maybe some of this information could be useful for the debate on different styles to take and such.... Any input on the general build would be great as well. While I don't like to min/max I also don't want to be a 5th in the group....
Oh, yea I knew about that, but it still turns into a -1 to attack for a +6 to ac though, +2 fighting defensively, +1 crane wing, +1 3 ranks acrobatics +2 against a target you can see (who ever your fighting). Still thinking its not a bad feat chain for dueling character with a rapier. Am I wrong though? Not looking to min/max by no means but still want to be able to keep up with other players as far as damage goes....
Snake style is based around unarmed strike and I want to use a rapier. :/
How was Crane style nerfed? When I am fighting Defensively I am taking a -1 to attack but a +6 ac vs my target (4 to every one else). And if I am caught in a bad place I can go total defense and get +7 to ac and automatically deflect an attack then make an AoO.
Well, the character concept as far as how he fights is a rapier wielder who doesn't do massive damage but instead does full round attacks defensively and the get to AoO you when you attack. He essentially just widdles you down.
I looked at a 1 level dip in monk and liked a lot of the stuff I would get, feats and skills, I didn't even think of the will save part. However I wasn't sure how I felt about the lawful part with the back story, but that could always be tweaked.
I have also never played a pure class before and was thinking maybe I could with this character, but maybe not.
Thanks for the idea, I am going to take another look at monk and see how I like it.
Thanks for the input and any more ideas would be appreciated!
Yea, Unarmed Fighter is the way I would go if I have to but was wondering if there was something I was missing, I just found out about the Ioun stone thing last night. I dont understand why the intelligence stone will stack with its self but the dex wont.....
So I am building a concept character with swashbuckler and hate having to take a 1 level dip into fighter to be able to effectively pick up crane style. I found that if I put a Deep Red Ioun Stone in a wayfinder it will give me Improved Unarmed Strike which is just enough to not have to do the one level dip, but since the +2 to dex from the stone wont stack with a belt of dex I am essentially paying 8,000 for the feat, which is a little heavy especially at early levels when I need it. I was wondering if any one knew of any other way to get around or fulfill the feat pre-requirements for crane style?
So I have been working on what is essentially an archetype to the vampire template, still trying to figure out how to balance out Children of the Knight.... would love feedback!
I recently saw the new Dracula movie and got to thinking about other such characters who were cursed by evil but then turned it against them . Would love to play a character like this. Kind of why I am pushing it.
Yea, I have looked at Dhampir and they are just.... well depressing... I agree fast healing is OP but my idea behind that was that I can't be healing by what ever healer the group has unless be start dropping major coin into wands of inflict wounds. Also if I hit 0hp poof new character (my character wouldn't reveal himself as a vampire, its a shame thing so does everything to keep it seceret from part to include no coffin)
Oh, and I think fast healing will be important because your typical group wont be able to heal a vampire very well so instead of just having fast healing 5 you get:
Fast Healing (EX) You gain fast healing equal to your charisma modifier OR your ECL+1, which ever is less. You can not exceed Fast Healing 5 with this ability and it does not stack with other Fast Healing abilities.
So I came up with another character concept, a vampire magus. Now I know that a vampire is a +2 CR which isn't fair to other party members so I am looking at ways to possibly balance it out. One way for example is instead of rolling for stats (we roll 4d6 and drop the lowest die, 1's can usually be rerolled once per stat) I start off with all 10's like a point buy, and then am only given 6 points to spend (no 2 points = 1, 3 = 1, etc...) and then drop the vampire template over it, which would be how I became of heroic strength. example:
Human Vampire
Str 18 10 base + 2 (human) + 6 (vampire template)
Dex 14 10 base + 4 (vampire template)
Con -
Int 16 10 base + 4 (point buy) + 2 (vampire template)
Wis 14 10 base + 2 (point buy) + 2 (vampire template)
Cha 14 10 base + 4 vampire template
I was also thinking that some of my immunities could be bypassed if it is coming from a magical source, such as "Immunity to sleep" if it comes from a magic source (and not some herbal tea or what have you) I am subject to a saving throw because the magic of the spell is disrupting the magic that keeps me alive.
I don't have a whole lot of DM experience myself but would like to get feedback from some folks on if you think something like this would be enough to balance out the vampire.
I was looking at Aasimar, thematically I like Tiefling and mechanically I like the oversized limbs... But Aasimar would definitely help with my problem...
Goldmyr I know they do, but think of the meme that says "Warning: Beware of any old person in a profession where one usually dies young"
While we usually roll stats (which typically leads to better stats) I tend to build my characters with a 25 point buy... here is what I got for Tiefling (Demon-Spawn):
Str 16 17 +2(Racial) -3(Old Age)
Dex 10 13 -3(Old Age)
Con 12 15 -3(Old Age)
Int 12 12 -2(Racial) +2(Old Age)
Wis 12 10 +2(Old Age)
Cha 14 10 +2(Racial) +2(Old Age)
I like having a little higher charisma to help with intimidate checks, try to inflict penalties to bring the enemy down to my level...
If I ever get my hands on a Mantle of Imortality then I will become an absolute terror.....
So, as the subject says a character concept I have wanted to figure out for awhile is an elder barbarian, I think thematically it would be awesome. I would love to find a way to use Wisdom in place of Strength, to symbolize his transition from raw brute force to experienced style of fighting. Any ideas? I would either go human or tiefling (if tiefling then I may say that the bloodline has become so diluted that I show minimum influence of demonic/devil blood, i.e. mostly human blood). Does any one have any ideas on how to optimize this character? I don't like to min/max but I also don't want to build a character that is just gonna be a complete train wreck!
Thanks Silent! Yea bard would be nice, maybe a 2 level dip, I like the Versatile Performance... Whip could be kind of cool, especially if all 3 feats are taken... alot of fun could be had with that...
Rynjin: I don't usually play small races, but I had a character idea awhile back and really want to play it... I am gonna be cranking in ranks into comedy, oratory and bluff so that I can walk into a bar and make some some bs story about how I slayed a giant troll in the middle of an orc battle single handed and make people believe it. Essentially I want him to be a self centered, larger than life pirate who is very charismatic and kind of a man whore, but only to medium sized women.... or larger... lol
And Bob I wanted the Flying Talon because it gives +2 to trip and disarm, both combat maneuvers I want to use and also has reach....
Well, that't a bummer.... I think I can actually still make this work. The only thing I got going against me would be -2 Str and -1 cmb but that would be negated by the Flying Talon's +2....
Any idea or suggestions on how to make it work? So far I am thinking of high dex and weapon finesse, Improved/Greater trip, Flying Talon, Weapon Focus, Gauntlets of Skilled Maneuver (Trip), if I remember right there is an Ioun stone that will give me a +1 cmb, not sure though....
Oh and I also would take excitable, improved initiative and have a high dex so that I can usually go first (or at least close to it) and catch them flat footed on that first round....
Here is a link to support what I am saying about what ever applies to my weapon would also apply to my trip...
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom
more specifically the bit about:
Someone said wrote:
Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses (enhancement bonuses, feats such as Weapon Focus, fighter weapon training, and so on) apply to the roll.
Yea I was leaning towards slayer for the same reasons. But wouldn't the +1 to attack come into play since I am using a weapon to perform the maneuver, it would be similar to tripping some one when I have weapon finesse, or am using a +3 weapon. The dex would be used in place of my strength and I would get a +3 to trip from my weapon because they are modifiers that apply to the weapon...
I was thinking of tripping everything, disarming them as they stand then just getting into flanking positions with other players while trying to use AoO to manage what ever one I am not currently flanking....
So I know it has been shot down before but I really want to find a way to make a Gnome rogue or slayer who can trip every one up then start sneak attacking them with a flying talon (I want it to be gnome for RP purposes). I know the -2 Str will give me 1 less to my trip but since I am using a weapon and get a +1 to attack, wouldn't that negate the -1 to cmb from being small? I have tried to google this to see if any one else has brought this up but found nothing on the subject.
Last year I spent a HUGE part of my time playing pathfinder trying to win the core rule book.... I went to the desk with 40-60 keys and NOT A SINGLE ONE opened the chest... they gave me a large troll figure as a consolation prize because they felt so bad... it is now known as the Troll of Shame lol Hopefully I have better luck this year!
I will definitely do that, so time to show my true colors of a noob to this site, is there a way to flag a particular thread so that it saves it? Or do I have to search though all the threads every time/leave it open in my browser 24/7?
Ok, I saw talk of something like that being released in Jan or Feb so I thought maybe I missed something somewhere. Thanks for the quick reply super stoked to get Kobold's stuff added into Hero Lab.
So I just read through most of this particular forum and have not been able to find where I download the files to import into Hero lab (I am super tired and may have missed it). I found some of the Kobold Press files available on Hero Labs site but nothing that suggest it has the spell-less ranger or any other class. I would love to find out where people are getting these files. I have to say so far Kobold has got the best 3rd party I have seen... the only bad thing I can say about it is wanting to play so many classes at once! lol
