Bif's page

<<<---- Olive Branch. Argument and bad feelins over I hope.

Olive branch accepted. Back to talk about the item.

As I have always understood portable holes, when you fold up the hole into handkerchief mode, it closes the opening completely. If you were to climb in the hole and pull it in after you, you would wind up inside the hole, with the folded up hole (the handkerchief) on the inside. The opening on the material plane would disappear, just as the opening on the inside disappears when you close it from the outside.

Consider if the portable hole was a gateway between two material planes, instead. Depending on which side of the hole you closed it from, would you expect the handkerchief to exist on the other side?

In the mists of memory, I think I read an article (in Dragon or another periodical) about unexpected things you can do with common magic items. I'll have to dig deep to find this reference, but maybe it will shed some light.

Bif,

DM's can indeed be wrong, but are NEVER wrong in making a decision to keep the game running smoothy. I have been running games for well over 25 years and I can tell you that NOTHING ruins having fun worse than rules-lawyers wanting to argue for an hour over little things.

Since I have explained, in detail, when and how this dispute came about, it should be perfectly clear that this situation isn't a case of a rules lawyer arguing for an hour over a little thing. In fact, this situation is the exact opposite.

I can only assume that, in your 25 years of experience, you have become so jaded by the nit-picking rules-lawyer (in our circle, we call this person a 'Paul', forever immortalziing a certain player) that you believe that any questioning of a DMs ultimate power is an affront to the purity and sanctity of game mastering. Okay, so I am being a bit ridiculous here - but it illustrates the point.

The point being that I asked a question about how a magic item worked, because every DM and player that I have played with since forever has understood it to work the way I described. And it's silly that if I were a DM complaining about a player on this issue, I would "get the support you are so clearly wanting". Think about that! Since I have done more DMing than player-ing over the years, does that mean if I have a dispute with person over a rules issue, the only thing that matters is if I happened to be DMing that particular campaign? Even if it is the same issue, and the same person?

It just gets silly. If your concern is disruption of the game, I've explained that I very specifically did not disrupt the game. Beyond that, are you really saying that the DM is always right, no matter what? Come now, Randy. While it is true that nothing can ruin an evening more than a rules-lawyer nitpicking for an hour, you forget how nothing can end a campaign faster than a DM who makes arbitrary decisions over and over again because "he can ".

You would also be incorrect for arguing with the DM after he has made his ruling....his job it to keep the game running smoothly and not be bogged down all night arguing over rules.

The arguing of which you speak took no more than five minutes, and it took place during a level-up/item purchasing phase at the beginning of the session before we started play proper. And once he read the item description and 'made his ruling', I put a pin in it and jumped on Paizo to search the forums while our item crafter was making items for the group. After reading healthy chunks of 15-20 threads and coming up empty, I posted the exact question here and got back to the game - even though we didn't start actual play for another half an hour. Everyone, including the DM was still doing prep work.

Also, DMs can be wrong. Our DM played 3.5 so extensively for so long that he often confuses 3.5 rules with Pathfinder rules. He also unshakably believes that he is always correct as well as ascribing to the 'DM has the final say' philosophy, a philosophy which you share. The reality is that it is everyone's responsibility to keep the game running smoothly and it is also everyone's responsibility to make sure that the rules are followed.

Putting all that responsibility on the DM only creates problems. Like spending a significant percentage of the party loot on a major magic item and then being told that you can't use it the way you expected to use it.

Hi!

I'm having a bit of a dispute with my DM in regards to the use of a portale hole.

I claim that you can close a portable hole from the inside and no trace of it would exist in the material plane. I realize that the hole would be dark and have a very limited air supply, but the main bone of contention here is whether there would be anything left in the material plane that someone could, for example, find and open.

My DM claims that a small handkerchief-sized, folded up, portable hole would still exist in the material plane, and that someone could open it, ruining the PCs hiding place.

I *swear* it works my way, and has for the past four decades...but he claims that it doesn't read that way in Pathfinder. Even the logical impossibilities his version creates don't seem to bother him.

Help!