Jessica Price wrote:
Kerney wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Kerney wrote:
Can we please close this thread? All sides have expressed their opinions and other than arguments about specific cases, we're seeing the same arguments and a repeated non agreement to disagree which can be repeated ad finitum.
you know if they close it down, a new thread with a slightly different title about the same subject is going to spring up an hour later, with all the same arguments etc.:)
Maybe we could at least get a cool new thread name!
More seriously, as a male 40 something who remembers chain mail bikinis and lingerie witches, I could easily be saying something like "could these hyper politically correct whiners please shut up. Haven't we made a good faith effort to make room?"
On the other hand, a thirty something female who has been harassed a few times at the table might have a different perspective.
It's a good idea for both sides to remember this.
No. Those are not equivalent.
I know you probably didn't intend it that way, but as it reads, your first statement implies that this hobby somehow belongs to you because you're male, and that you're doing us some sort of favor by allowing us to participate in your hobby. It doesn't belong solely to you and people like you, and you don't get to say, well, we'll be a little less hostile and a little less objectifying and now shut up and be glad you got that much, you interlopers.
I am not an interloper, a guest, a foreigner, to the Land of RPGs because I am a woman. Neither are non-straight people, people of color, or anyone else.
Your second statement -- which, incidentally, is me -- is someone presumably 100% justifiably upset about her right to participate in her hobby in peace being infringed.
So yeah, the way you framed it there? Those two sides aren't equally valid.
I don't normally get involved in back and forth banter, but he didn't say they were equivalent. They're obviously not, to me at least. We're on a slippery slope when we start to put words into other people's mouths.
Whilst I think this is a topic very worthy of debate, I too vote for it to be closed; too many passions are being stoked.