all of the relevant rules have been linked to you. you are just choosing to draw a different conclusion as to what they say, than what they say!!
no what is disturbing is how you keep trying to change the subject from how a spell functions in a make believe game, to how we are somehow responsible for your issues from the real world. we are just ppl having an adult discussion, if its not your cup of tea leave us to it. thanks
read the faq/errata on the charm person spell. faq: so charm person does have that special cavet you mentioned. things that are beyond what you would do are still beyond this spells ability to force a NPC to do even with a successful Cha check at the GM's discretion. Charm person makes a humanoid "friendly" to you, as per the rules found in the Diplomacy skill, but it also allows you to issue orders to the target, making an opposed Charisma check to convince the target to do something that it would not normally do. How does that work?
The charm person spell (and charm monster by extension) makes the target your friend. It will treat you kindly (although maybe not your allies) and will generally help you as long as your interests align. This is mostly in the purview of the GM. If you ask the creature to do something that it would not normally do (in relation to your friendship), that is when the opposed Charisma check comes into play. For example, if you use charm person to befriend an orc, the orc might share his grog with you and talk with you about the upcoming raid on a nearby settlement. If you asked him to help you fight some skeletons, he might very well lend a hand. If you asked him to help you till a field, however, you might need to make that check to convince him to do it.
Charm Person Text:
This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target's attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.
The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person's language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming. that doesnt grant anymore control over your target than using diplomacy and rolling high enough to change their attitude to helpful. now this whole "valid consent" statement is only your opinion. using "Charm" magic does not equal the same as drugging someone. a charmed person can still think and reason as per the text i made bold in the spoiler.
oh my bad that makes sense. i have to say i am enjoying going through your characters. there are a few i am looking forward to placing into my homebrew as some reoccuring villians. most notable and one of my favorites so far is your Gnoll Sorcerer on page 1. I so cant wait to throw that at a couple of my PC's. thanks again for the great resource. Well i finally had enough time to sit down and go through all the Paegin stuff you linked RD, and i have to say thanks. Those were fun and inspirational reads. Definately cant wait to introduce The Wrath of Paegin in my homebrew.
Epic level handbook 3rd edition had some rules for making spells above 9th lv. If I remember correctly you had to take epic feats to get the 10th lv spell slots and the spells required spellcraft checks to cast. I dont remember all that was required to create them but they had several examples. |
