Battlecry! Playtest: Boots on the Ground

Wednesday, June 12, 2024

Ten hut! Fall in! There’s less than two weeks remaining in the Battlecry! playtest for the new commander and guardian classes, so if you haven’t had a chance to register your feedback, report to https://paizo.com/pathfinderplaytest to download the PDF and find the links to the surveys. There’s been a lot of interest in the playtest so far—it was downloaded more times than the original Pathfinder playtest in the first few days!—but we can use every last one of your forward reports. Of course, the boffins back at home base have been paying attention to what you’ve had to say so far in the surveys and on the forums and are starting to formulate ways to make these classes even better.

We’ll have a lot more intel from the feedback front once the playtest closes. It’s too early to note what exactly we’ll be tweaking and how we’ll be changing it, but here are a couple little tidbits of information.

  • The commander will receive more tactics for a diverse set of playstyles, especially master and legendary tactics!
  • We saw that there was some confusion about the Hardness and statistics for the commander’s banner, so we’re already looking to make sure that will be clarified.
  • Similarly, we have noticed a few wording issues with the guardian’s threat technique and have flagged that class feature for future work.
  • We’re also closely examining the numbers of the guardian’s Taunt ability, with the hopes of creating something that will really sing.
Two armies clash in the forests of the River Kingdoms. Art by Rogier van de Beek.

Two armies clash in the forests of the River Kingdoms. Art by Rogier van de Beek.


I’d also like to share a couple of anecdotes from my own playtests of the guardian! The first, which occurred over PaizoCon weekend, saw a 4th-level party dealing with a “swamp witch,” who was just an ogre glutton and a boggard swampseer working together. The guardian of that party used Area Cover to turn a successful basic Reflex save into a critical success, preventing the group’s fighter from taking any damage! For the second playtest, we put together some 16th-level characters to face an ancient adamantine dragon! The guardian’s ability to withstand damage was put to the test, but he stood firm against the threat and even managed to grapple the fearsome opponent for a round. Overall, these playtests have allowed me to see the classes in action and better understand how people might play them, which will help the team better refine their mechanics.

We don’t yet have sketches for our new iconics but rest assured that Wayne Reynolds is in the trenches producing his usual stellar art. Personally, I’m so excited about what we’ve got in store for these two characters. Now, you might be able to guess some facts about one of the iconics, but I’m certain you’re going to be surprised by the other one! If you’ve got some theories, I’d love to hear them in the comments!

Jason Keeley (he/him)
Senior Designer

More Paizo Blog.

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Okay, Iconic theories. I'm betting at least one is an Orc or Leshie, they're both base ancestries now and the only ones without at least one iconic. Orc's probably the stronger bet, a canny but brutish Commander from Belkzen perhaps, butting heads with a knightly Guardian they're forced to fight side-by-side with; but I will not dismiss the idea of a little plant guy swimming in full plate. Because it sounds adorable.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
TheTownsend wrote:
Okay, Iconic theories. I'm betting at least one is an Orc or Leshie, they're both base ancestries now and the only ones without at least one iconic.

It is this same reasoning that I'm hoping/betting on a Kobold Commander that uses both base materials and their companions to set traps all over the battlefield.

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

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We definitely played with the idea of a Small guardian but ultimately decided to go a different way...

The Exchange

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Jason Keeley wrote:
We definitely played with the idea of a Small guardian but ultimately decided to go a different way...

Holy frijoles, how different are we talkin' here? 'Cause now I've got a Minotaur Guardian on my betting sheet next to my Kobold Commander.

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

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I can't say just yet!


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Jason Keeley wrote:
We definitely played with the idea of a Small guardian but ultimately decided to go a different way...

Sprite Iconic Guardian, not Small, but Tiny!


Wait, is the artwork we already have for the Commander and the Guardian not going to be the ones used for the Iconics? I ask as I was hoping the artwork for the Commander showed a female Dhampir (and that we'd get our first Dhampir iconic).

Horizon Hunters

What about a hobgoblin commander and an dragonblood guardian?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Berselius wrote:
Wait, is the artwork we already have for the Commander and the Guardian not going to be the ones used for the Iconics? I ask as I was hoping the artwork for the Commander showed a female Dhampir (and that we'd get our first Dhampir iconic).

Those are both reused art pieces. The dhampir art you're referencing is an Aspis Cavalier from PF1. The other is art for the stalwart defender archetype in Highhelm.


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Berselius wrote:
Wait, is the artwork we already have for the Commander and the Guardian not going to be the ones used for the Iconics? I ask as I was hoping the artwork for the Commander showed a female Dhampir (and that we'd get our first Dhampir iconic).

We do actually have a dhampir iconic already, Nyctessa. She was one of the evil iconics introduced with the Hell's Vengeance AP. I'd love to see a less overtly evil dhampir though for sure; always a fan of non-evil undead and undead-adjacent representation.

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Berselius wrote:
Wait, is the artwork we already have for the Commander and the Guardian not going to be the ones used for the Iconics? I ask as I was hoping the artwork for the Commander showed a female Dhampir (and that we'd get our first Dhampir iconic).

They are not. Those are previously commissioned pieces of art used as kind of placeholders for the PDF and blogs. I believe the "dhampir" commander is an Order of the Asp cavalier from Adventurer's Guide.

We are creating all-new characters for the iconics, with brand-new art!

Radiant Oath

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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

How about a merfolk commander in a supramarine chair? It would make for an awesome miniature.


Perses13 wrote:
Those are both reused art pieces. The dhampir art you're referencing is an Aspis Cavalier from PF1. The other is art for the stalwart defender archetype in Highhelm.
Jason Keeley wrote:
They are not. Those are previously commissioned pieces of art used as kind of placeholders for the PDF and blogs. I believe the "dhampir" commander is an Order of the Asp cavalier from Adventurer's Guide.We are creating all-new characters for the iconics, with brand-new art!

Ah, okay, my bad. :(

Perpdepog wrote:
We do actually have a dhampir iconic already, Nyctessa. She was one of the evil iconics introduced with the Hell's Vengeance AP. I'd love to see a less overtly evil dhampir though for sure; always a fan of non-evil undead and undead-adjacent representation.

Yeah, I'd much rather have a much more heroic Dhampir iconic than Nyctessa to be honest.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Poppet Commander!
Or even better, Tiny Poppet Guardian (Toy Poppet Heritage)... and it's Gom-Gom, Yoon's childhood stuffy (whose unique appearance definitely doesn't resemble any actual creatures), awakened to sentience!
(Yeah, not happening... but I can dream!)

Cognates

Jason Keeley wrote:
Berselius wrote:
Wait, is the artwork we already have for the Commander and the Guardian not going to be the ones used for the Iconics? I ask as I was hoping the artwork for the Commander showed a female Dhampir (and that we'd get our first Dhampir iconic).

They are not. Those are previously commissioned pieces of art used as kind of placeholders for the PDF and blogs. I believe the "dhampir" commander is an Order of the Asp cavalier from Adventurer's Guide.

We are creating all-new characters for the iconics, with brand-new art!

Was nice to see Irabeth again. I hope she and Anevia are living their best lives.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I hope at least one is one of the ancestries from Howl of the Wild

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

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So far, only one person has guessed correctly about ONE of the iconics!

Dark Archive

Small shame that the guardian got two anecdotes and the commander got zero.

Though, the opinions on the forums seem to be more broadly positive regarding the commander, so the guardian could use the extra positive fanfare and hints of improvements prior to release.


Jason Keeley wrote:
So far, only one person has guessed correctly about ONE of the iconics!

Hmmm I'm wondering if it's merfolk commander or minotaur guardian


EuphoricValkyrie wrote:
Jason Keeley wrote:
So far, only one person has guessed correctly about ONE of the iconics!
Hmmm I'm wondering if it's merfolk commander or minotaur guardian

Minotaur Guardian? I would bet on that.

New beefy ancestry that fits the only character concept that the Guardian is covering? Seems like it's spot on.


I made a Reddit post asking people for opinions on this exact subject and the general consensus was that the new iconics should be nonhuman. Most people were thinking they should be one of the new core ancestries. A LOT of people were discussing the idea of a hobgoblin commander in particular.

...Which notably is one of the ones that only one person brought up here. Hmm...

Personally, I would love the idea of an orc guardian iconic, emphasizing the guardian's amorality by protecting others for honor rather than altruism.

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

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Ectar wrote:

Small shame that the guardian got two anecdotes and the commander got zero.

Though, the opinions on the forums seem to be more broadly positive regarding the commander, so the guardian could use the extra positive fanfare and hints of improvements prior to release.

Since I wrote the guardian and have been paying attention to its criticism, I did think that it could use a little boost in positivity!

But I had a commander in each of the two playtests I mentioned, both of which performed admirably. Both players happened to make mounted commanders, though only one was interested in using the mount to joust! In the first combat with the lower-level commander (mounted on a big goat), he granted an extra attack to the fighter, who, along with a critical Reactive Strike, dealt somewhere between 40 and 60 damage with reactions! The higher-level commander focused on Piranha Formation to help the party ignore the resistance of an adamantine dragon and then dealt a pretty decisive blow with his lance!

So, yeah, commanders are able to effectively do their jobs!

Horizon Hunters

Jason Keeley wrote:
Ectar wrote:

Small shame that the guardian got two anecdotes and the commander got zero.

Though, the opinions on the forums seem to be more broadly positive regarding the commander, so the guardian could use the extra positive fanfare and hints of improvements prior to release.

Since I wrote the guardian and have been paying attention to its criticism, I did think that it could use a little boost in positivity!

But I had a commander in each of the two playtests I mentioned, both of which performed admirably. Both players happened to make mounted commanders, though only one was interested in using the mount to joust! In the first combat with the lower-level commander (mounted on a big goat), he granted an extra attack to the fighter, who, along with a critical Reactive Strike, dealt somewhere between 40 and 60 damage with reactions! The higher-level commander focused on Piranha Formation to help the party ignore the resistance of an adamantine dragon and then dealt a pretty decisive blow with his lance!

So, yeah, commanders are able to effectively do their jobs!

I am enjoying my Guardian so far - really looking forward to seeing where it goes next.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Thank you for writing the guardian class. For me at least the guardian is a class I would play and so I was pretty invested in checking it out and seeing how it works/providing feedback.
In light of the awesome looking aura changes for Champions on top of how good the class was I think the Guardian has a high bar of excellence to meet if its going to compete as a class that protects the party. I look forward to seeing how it comes out in the end.

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

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Thanks! I think the guardian is going to be in a much better place after the playtest ends. Thanks in no small part to all the people who have (and will) give their feedback!


Jason Keeley wrote:
Thanks! I think the guardian is going to be in a much better place after the playtest ends. Thanks in no small part to all the people who have (and will) give their feedback!

What was there to begin with was still pretty fun. I enjoyed play testing this more defensive mirror to the barbarian: someone who similarly gets stuck in and starts bullying people with maneuvers and bulk. The theming of the playstyle was plenty good, and tweaking numbers to get to expectations is an easy enough fix. Regardless, I'm excited to see your post write up.

Grand Archive

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
WWHsmackdown wrote:
Jason Keeley wrote:
Thanks! I think the guardian is going to be in a much better place after the playtest ends. Thanks in no small part to all the people who have (and will) give their feedback!
What was there to begin with was still pretty fun. I enjoyed play testing this more defensive mirror to the barbarian: someone who similarly gets stuck in and starts bullying people with maneuvers and bulk. The theming of the playstyle was plenty good, and tweaking numbers to get to expectations is an easy enough fix. Regardless, I'm excited to see your post write up.

Speaking of Barbarian, I played a Giant Instinct Barbarian at LVL 16 against an ancient Adamantine Dragon (yeah, lol, I laughed a lot reading that anecdote in this blog), and my AC was so abysmally low that EVEN with taunt active, there was time when I was crit by attacks that wouldn't have hit the guardian AT ALL. xD So yeah, combining this with the ridiculously high damages I was dealing... I was stealing the guardian's thunders a bit. xD

Verdant Wheel

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Hobgoblin Commander.

My guess is that is the guess that was correct.

=)


I also like Romao's Hobgoblin commander guess. Building off that, I think there's going to be a sort of begrudging, antagonistic companionship between the iconics, and the guardian is going to be a sort of left field pick as an Elf. Two warriors of an ancestral grudge, forced to work together against a greater threat to both peoples. Writes itself!

Horizon Hunters

+1 to Hobgoblin Commander and Poppet Guardian


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Loki_Thief wrote:

Poppet Commander!

Or even better, Tiny Poppet Guardian (Toy Poppet Heritage)... and it's Gom-Gom, Yoon's childhood stuffy (whose unique appearance definitely doesn't resemble any actual creatures), awakened to sentience!
(Yeah, not happening... but I can dream!)

I played a toy poppet commander during the playtest, they had a leg chair as a mount because of the commander's steed feat

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