Pathfinder Beginner Box Sanctioning

Cool! Thanks for getting this to us so quickly!

Planning to run this for my kids. Presumably I can use the other pregens in the box to make a legal table as long as there are at least two players?

Could the sanctioning crowd please address two important errata questions?

1) In the Hero's Handbook, pg 24, "Battle Medicine" (I know. Why this one?) has a "reaction" symbol. The CRB, pg 258, shows "Battle Medicine" as a single action.

2) In the Hero's Handbook, there are three character builds that create Level 1 Characters with +5 ability mods.

Human (Acolyte Background) Cleric has +5 Wisdom
Human (Scholar Background) Wizard has +5 Intelligence
Human (Criminal Background) Rogue has +5 Dexterity.

The backgrounds are not at all unusual for the classes they affect. Is this intended?

Great idea to offer suggestions on a path of adventures.

Bandits of Immenwood is also a PFS scenario that takes place around Immenwood; though I am not sure it is the best introduction to PFS, being very very combat heavy.

Could the sanctioning crowd please address two important errata questions?

1) In the Hero's Handbook, pg 24, "Battle Medicine" (I know. Why this one?) has a "reaction" symbol. The CRB, pg 258, shows "Battle Medicine" as a single action.

2) In the Hero's Handbook, there are three character builds that create Level 1 Characters with +5 ability mods.

Human (Acolyte Background) Cleric has +5 Wisdom
Human (Scholar Background) Wizard has +5 Intelligence
Human (Criminal Background) Rogue has +5 Dexterity.

The backgrounds are not at all unusual for the classes they affect. Is this intended?

As these are product piece questions, they don't involve the sanctioning team. I'll mention them to relevant people for review/commentary though.

Planning to run this for my kids. Presumably I can use the other pregens in the box to make a legal table as long as there are at least two players?

There is no legal table size in Campaign Mode, so you can do what makes for the best play experience. I hope you and the kids have a great time.

they don't involve the sanctioning team.

So those three character builds would be OK for Society play in other scenarios after they finish the BB adventure?

Or would someone have to rebuild their BB character using Society rules before they could make it a Society character?

I am thrilled to see the Beginner Box materials get sanctioning. That will be really helpful in promoting Pathfinder Society play. I heard the box came with a Syrinscape flyer as well. That should be pretty cool. Good work on getting this sanctioned so quickly!

Really wish Bestiary 2 sanctioning would get released.

Tonya Woldridge wrote:

they don't involve the sanctioning team.

So those three character builds would be OK for Society play in other scenarios after they finish the BB adventure?

Or would someone have to rebuild their BB character using Society rules before they could make it a Society character?

The BB characters are not society legal. A team of volunteers are working on community use handouts that show how to go from the BB to PFS. The goal is to have them soon (end of month-ish). I don't want to spoil the reveal, so I'll leave it to the team members to comment when they are ready.

The BB characters are not society legal.

Thanks!

Wow, thanks for getting this sanctioned so quickly! And double AcP is a nice bonus!

Just FYI for someone over at Paizo, the last 3 Paizo blogs have not been viewable in the new blog page. The last viewable blog from the new page is the "Introducing Hideous Laughter Productions" blog. The other 3 can only be viewed through the legacy page, and the front page section about the blogs.

Just FYI for someone over at Paizo, the last 3 Paizo blogs have not been viewable in the new blog page. The last viewable blog from the new page is the "Introducing Hideous Laughter Productions" blog. The other 3 can only be viewed through the legacy page, and the front page section about the blogs.

Thanks. We are in the midst of rolling out new software and there will be anomalies for a time. Tech team is on it.

I was already excited for the beginner box but this just makes it even better. Thank you for the hard work getting this ready so quickly!

Could the sanctioning crowd please address two important errata questions?

1) In the Hero's Handbook, pg 24, "Battle Medicine" (I know. Why this one?) has a "reaction" symbol. The CRB, pg 258, shows "Battle Medicine" as a single action.

2) In the Hero's Handbook, there are three character builds that create Level 1 Characters with +5 ability mods.

Human (Acolyte Background) Cleric has +5 Wisdom
Human (Scholar Background) Wizard has +5 Intelligence
Human (Criminal Background) Rogue has +5 Dexterity.

The backgrounds are not at all unusual for the classes they affect. Is this intended?

I thought I read somewhere that there's caveats in the book that those combinations aren't allowed.

I thought I read somewhere that there's caveats in the book that those combinations aren't allowed.

So far, no one has found them, even with a search of the PDF. Other ancestries are limited, but not human.

Acolyte background:
Add +1 to your Wisdom. If you become a dwarf cleric, add +1 to your Constitution instead.

Criminal background:
Add +1 to your Dexterity, If you become an elf rogue, add +1 to your Wisdom instead.

Scholar background:
Add +1 to your Intelligence. If you become an elf wizard, add +1 to your Wisdom instead.

Just a note, you recommend playing the Road from Otari bounty after the two 4xp sessions in the BB. That means that if applied to the same character, they will have 9 XP. Then you recommend playing #1-01 The Absalom Initiation for another 4 XP bringing the total to 13 XP and level 2. Since PFS #2-11 The Pathfinder Trials has a restriction to only level 1, new players cannot play it next, in the recommended order, unless they are playing slow, and if they aren't and don't know, they will not be able to play #2-11.

Is the above intended?

Just trying to understand the suggested schedule, which seems to be in the wrong order if a new player wants to follow along with what is posted in the blog.

Just a note, you recommend playing the Road from Otari bounty after the two 4xp sessions in the BB. That means that if applied to the same character, they will have 9 XP. Then you recommend playing #1-01 The Absalom Initiation for another 4 XP bringing the total to 13 XP and level 2. Since PFS #2-11 The Pathfinder Trials has a restriction to only level 1, new players cannot play it next, in the recommended order, unless they are playing slow, and if they aren't and don't know, they will not be able to play #2-11.

Is the above intended?

Just trying to understand the suggested schedule, which seems to be in the wrong order if a new player wants to follow along with what is posted in the blog.

With the Beginner Box scenarios included, here would be the revised progression to reach 4th level on just the repeatable scenarios.

BB#1: 4xp (4)
BB#2: 4xp (8)
Bounties #1-4: 4xp (12, 2nd)
1-01: 4xp (16)
1-06: 4xp (20)
1-10: 4xp (24, 3rd)
1-14: 4xp (28)
1-23: 4xp (32)
2-06: 4xp (36, 4th)

I’m glad that the BB is sanctioned so quickly, but that just makes the lack of sanctioning on much older products that much more disappointing

Just a note, you recommend playing the Road from Otari bounty after the two 4xp sessions in the BB. That means that if applied to the same character, they will have 9 XP. Then you recommend playing #1-01 The Absalom Initiation for another 4 XP bringing the total to 13 XP and level 2. Since PFS #2-11 The Pathfinder Trials has a restriction to only level 1, new players cannot play it next, in the recommended order, unless they are playing slow, and if they aren't and don't know, they will not be able to play #2-11.

Is the above intended?

Just trying to understand the suggested schedule, which seems to be in the wrong order if a new player wants to follow along with what is posted in the blog.

That is a fair point, and as the person who wrote that section, I will absolutely own that I did not think about the XP requirements! That's my bad.

The easiest fix would be to swap 2-11 and 1-01 so you do your training in Pathfinder Trials, then meet the faction leaders in Absalom Initiation.

Thanks for pointing that out; this is something that the OPF volunteers are working on as well, so we'll make sure their recommendations take XP into account as well.

I’m glad that the BB is sanctioned so quickly, but that just makes the lack of sanctioning on much older products that much more disappointing

Understood, but there is still limited time in a day. We've changed our sanctioning processes, so we hope that speeds up our ability to get things out quickly. We've got our eye on the back queue and are grabbing it as we can, though some of that stuff still needs the older processes and thus will take longer.

I’m glad that the BB is sanctioned so quickly, but that just makes the lack of sanctioning on much older products that much more disappointing

It's also an entirely different thing, and I simply mean that from the point of view of most players it probably seems the same, but in actual fact sanctioning PF1 material (which is what I presume you're concerned about) requires going through 10 years of content to check for combinations that are broken, will cause huge table variation or have GMs and players confused, etc. Whilst PF2 has many, many fewer options to compare against and is thus far faster to deal with and get out.

Most of it will arrive eventually, we've waited this long, a while longer isn't likely to cause anyone huge problems, frustrating as it may be for some.

You presume incorrectly. I am referring to other 2E material that predates the Beginner Box

You presume incorrectly. I am referring to other 2E material that predates the Beginner Box

Ah, then it really hasn't been that long at all thankfully, so it's looking good!

Everyone is allowed to decide for themselves what is "not that long" vs "too long." It is subjective after all

I still remember the early days, when stuff was approved for OP play before it was even released!

And then unapproved after it became a problem.

And then unapproved after it became a problem.

Which personally I was always fine with. But that comes down on how I build my PCs most likely.

The given reason they stopped sanctioning prior to release, were complaints that subscribers 'Unfairly' got access first, which IMO was not a very good reason.

With the Beginner Box scenarios included, here would be the revised progression to reach 4th level on just the repeatable scenarios.

BB#1: 4xp (4)
BB#2: 4xp (8)
Bounties #1-4: 4xp (12, 2nd)
1-01: 4xp (16)
1-06: 4xp (20)
1-10: 4xp (24, 3rd)
1-14: 4xp (28)
1-23: 4xp (32)
2-06: 4xp (36, 4th)

It seems that they want to present the initial progression for brand-new players as:

BB#1 4xp
BB#2 8xp
2-11 12xp, reach 2nd level after scenario
1-01 16xp

---------

Repeatables for additional characters:
1-06 20xp
1-10 24xp, reach 3rd level after scenario
1-14 28xp
combination of 4 of earlier bounties and/or quests 32xp

There's no room to do four of the bounties on this schedule, since they are limited to level 1 like 2-11 is. However, doing 3 bounties before 2-11 and then one quest afterwards would work.

It does encourage multiple characters if one wants to experience the bounties anyway, seeing as how there are so many in the pipeline.

In my opinion, I wish the end of these lists contained enough xp to reach level 5, since it is a huge waste (again, my opinion) to do 3-6s on a level 3 or 4 with the currently available scenarios, including forthcoming ones.

I just hope that eventually we do have enough repeatable scenarios at levels 1-4 to gain 48xp, so 11 scenarios, allowing for 4 early bounties/quests. It is no rush as I have an idea of how long it takes to write such a creation, not to mention adding in the mechanics and then adjusting everything just so, to prepare for release. :D This is my wish for the far future, 4 more repeatable level 1-4 scenarios by the time Pathfinder is on Year 4 or 5. :D

I find that by level 5 it really shows me what my character can do.

I'd strongly discourage the use of these Beginner Box scenarios as "normal" repeatables for getting your PFS characters out of the low levels. Keep in mind that these are very simple adventures. They do a good job at taking new players (and GMs) by the hand and slowly exposing them to various rule mechanics. But that's about it, there is nothing particularly interesting for experienced players! And of course, despite being sanctioned as repeatable for PFS, they have no variable elements to them. In short, playing these repeatedly as an experienced player just to level up character -200x will be a mind-numbingly boring grind, way worse than any other repeatables.

Use them to expose new players to the game, that's what they're good for.

caps wrote:

Planning to run this for my kids. Presumably I can use the other pregens in the box to make a legal table as long as there are at least two players?

There is no legal table size in Campaign Mode, so you can do what makes for the best play experience. I hope you and the kids have a great time.

Does this apply in the opposite scenario, where I run the beginner box for a group of 7 or 8 parents and their kids?

--

If a player uses a character made from the CRB instead of one made from the beginner box does that invalidate their PFS credit? If so, would it invalidate PFS credit for the rest of the table as well? My son really wants to use a CRB character instead of being limited to the beginner box.

It's Campaign Mode.

You could have your son play Star Wars characters if he wanted.

Anything's free game with GM approval.

Beginner Box has some particular rules on how it's played for credit that aren't simply Campaign Mode, so the generic response does not apply.

The Beginner Box Heroes Handbook describes the rules for character creation. Alternatively, players can use the four pregenerated characters included in the Pathfinder Beginner Box.

I don't think that limits anything, and is more of a Guideline.

Otherwise, it would be included in the rules for Additional Adventures.

The Beginner Box is a "Pathfinder Adventure" run in "Adventure Mode" (what us grognards continue to refer to as "Campaign Mode"), which "allows the GM more freedom to adapt those adventures, including running the adventure in Pathfinder using GM house rules, and the ability to alter encounters and statistics found in the adventure."

One of those "statistics found in the Adventure" that you can "adapt" is the rules for character creation.

Maybe. But no other sanctioning of an Adventure/Stand Alone/AP/Free RPG Day has a section in the sanctioning document called "Running the Adventure."

RUNNING THE ADVENTURE

The Pathfinder Beginner Box Game Master’s Guide
outlines how to run the adventure “Menace Under
Otari”. GMs should use the adventure as a framework
and make adjustments for their table, focusing on the
goal of providing an enjoyable, engaging experience for
all participants.
The Beginner Box Heroes Handbook describes the rules
for character creation. Alternatively, players can use the
four pregenerated characters included in the Pathfinder
Beginner Box.

To me, not to put too much stock on the mantra, that seems a specific overriding the general, see it as the price you pay for double ACP, intended to keep the activity as an onboarding/introduction to PF2, and would be reluctant to determine a section in the sanctioning document specially added as a "guideline."

But I certainly don't know what was intended.

It's Campaign Mode.

You could have your son play Star Wars characters if he wanted.

Anything's free game with GM approval.

PFS2 is a *little* more restrictive, although the border line for those restrictions is left to GM judgement.

(Campaign Mode was Renamed Adventure Mode for Reasons)

PFS2 Guide: Additional Adventures

Adventure Mode is used for adventures not published for society play, and allows the GM more freedom to adapt those adventures, including running the adventure in Pathfinder using GM house rules, and the ability to alter encounters and statistics found in the adventure.

Maybe. But no other sanctioning of an Adventure/Stand Alone/AP/Free RPG Day has a section in the sanctioning document called "Running the Adventure."

Beginner Box Sanctioning wrote:

RUNNING THE ADVENTURE

The Pathfinder Beginner Box Game Master’s Guide
outlines how to run the adventure “Menace Under
Otari”. GMs should use the adventure as a framework
and make adjustments for their table, focusing on the
goal of providing an enjoyable, engaging experience for
all participants.
The Beginner Box Heroes Handbook describes the rules
for character creation. Alternatively, players can use the
four pregenerated characters included in the Pathfinder
Beginner Box.

To me, not to put too much stock on the mantra, that seems a specific overriding the general, see it as the price you pay for double ACP, intended to keep the activity as an onboarding/introduction to PF2, and would be reluctant to determine a section in the sanctioning document specially added as a "guideline."

But I certainly don't know what was intended.

Sanctioning Documents *ALWAYS* override the Additional Adventures section of the Guide.

So what does that mean, exactly, in this case?

Because, to me, that sounds like using the Beginner Box rules as a basis, that can then be amended by the GM however they choose.

I also don't quite understand how the line could be drawn to say that you're not playing Pathfinder by bringing in Star Wars characters.

GM houserules that lightsabers exist; game on.

So what does that mean, exactly, in this case?

Because, to me, that sounds like using the Beginner Box rules as a basis, that can then be amended by the GM however they choose.

I also don't quite understand how the line could be drawn to say that you're not playing Pathfinder by bringing in Star Wars characters.

GM houserules that lightsabers exist; game on.

It means that each GM is free to judge where the line should be, but the game and setting should still be recognizably Pathfinder and Golarion.

Emulating a starwars character? Sure, just give their weapons the Brilliant Fusion and add an occult spellcasting archtype.

Dropping in starwars characters using starwars mechanics? Or just running the same adventure in the starwars roleplaying game set on Mos Eisley? Not really appropriate.

The line is somewhere in there, and it is up to each GM, acting on good faith, to decide where that line stops for them.

Nefreet wrote:

So what does that mean, exactly, in this case?

Because, to me, that sounds like using the Beginner Box rules as a basis, that can then be amended by the GM however they choose.

I also don't quite understand how the line could be drawn to say that you're not playing Pathfinder by bringing in Star Wars characters.

GM houserules that lightsabers exist; game on.

It means that each GM is free to judge where the line should be, but the game and setting should still be recognizably Pathfinder and Golarion.

Emulating a starwars character? Sure, just give their weapons the Brilliant Fusion and add an occult spellcasting archtype.

Dropping in starwars characters using starwars mechanics? Or just running the same adventure in the starwars roleplaying game set on Mos Eisley? Not really appropriate.

The line is somewhere in there, and it is up to each GM, acting on good faith, to decide where that line stops for them.

I'm a little sad to see that they changed this with 2e PFS. I never took advantage of the rule, but I always thought it was cool that I could use a different game system to run a 1e AP or module and still get PFS credit for it.

--

I don't feel like I have much more clarity on my original question, though, in terms of something definitive.

Online Guide Team Lead - JTT wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

So what does that mean, exactly, in this case?

Because, to me, that sounds like using the Beginner Box rules as a basis, that can then be amended by the GM however they choose.

I also don't quite understand how the line could be drawn to say that you're not playing Pathfinder by bringing in Star Wars characters.

GM houserules that lightsabers exist; game on.

It means that each GM is free to judge where the line should be, but the game and setting should still be recognizably Pathfinder and Golarion.

Emulating a starwars character? Sure, just give their weapons the Brilliant Fusion and add an occult spellcasting archtype.

Dropping in starwars characters using starwars mechanics? Or just running the same adventure in the starwars roleplaying game set on Mos Eisley? Not really appropriate.

The line is somewhere in there, and it is up to each GM, acting on good faith, to decide where that line stops for them.

I'm a little sad to see that they changed this with 2e PFS. I never took advantage of the rule, but I always thought it was cool that I could use a different game system to run a 1e AP or module and still get PFS credit for it.

--

I don't feel like I have much more clarity on my original question, though, in terms of something definitive.

I was checking details on the rest of your question. (I want to make sure I give the right answers.)

There is no Minimum or Maximum table size (other than what you can handle as a GM and make fun for everyone.)

For Beginner Box (specifically) all characters must be either Pregens or built using Beginner Box Rules, as stated in the sanctioning Document.

That's a night-and-day-difference from your last post =\

I asked about using the Beginner Box as a basis, and your reply was "it's up to each GM", but now you're saying they have to be Beginner Box characters?

That's a night-and-day-difference from your last post =\

I asked about using the Beginner Box as a basis, and your reply was "it's up to each GM", but now you're saying they have to be Beginner Box characters?

My first post was a general response regarding Adventure Mode (and specifically using it to run adventures in other systems.)

My last post was a *specific * response to the beginners box, which has specific language requiring all characters to be built using the beginners box rules.

I am sorry if I did not make that sufficiently clear.

This is an example where the sanctioning document trumps the guide rules. (In any conflict sanctioning documents Trump guide rules.)

Thanks JTT. That is how I interpreted the rules but I wanted to be sure I had that right and that it had not changed. My son will live despite the limitation :-D