| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's math, Jim ... but not as we know it!
Magic pretty much always breaks math, as a science fantasy game it seems logical to assume that if something doesn't make sense through science then there's an element of magic involved.
They don't alter the net vector, as that is simply mathematically impossible. The reaction cannon, as described, would alter the net vector.
I'm fine with laser swords and whatever, as they're cool. I'm not fine with plain math being blatantly contradicted.
Which is why it is science fiction/fantasy.
Are you ok with FTL travel? Are you ok with near light speed travel? Are you ok with magic? Are you ok with Nanotech? Are you ok with telepathic races?
But finding a way to store and redistribute reaction force in a gun is a game breaker?
So your ok with light sabres and blasters but hyper efficient bullet guns are no go.
I'm okay with all of those.
They make sense in-setting and I'm willing to suspend disbelief for them.
I'm not willing to suspend disbelief for "math doesn't work in this setting", though.
The point doesn't have to be "math doesn't work", the point can be that in the setting, "force" might be closer to a physical entity like light is. In a way that makes it less force less relational to direction than it is to reaction mass. Such that "vectors" while still being a viable mathematical construct in the setting, is less useful as a measurement of force.
That... Is all assuming it can't be hand waved away by saying that "conservation of energy doesn't exist in the setting"... Which from what I can tell, is maybe less the case with PF/SF, but often works in other settings. In this setting, its more that conservation of energy is just looser rather than in our world rather than plain broken.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm not willing to suspend disbelief for "math doesn't work in this setting", though.
How about this:
Reaction guns use an advanced energy absorption/redirection tech based on the same tech that allows force fields/shields. Basically an extremely efficient solid energy barrier that absorbs and redirects force into capacitors/storage system. That gives a solid reaction mass against which a thermo chemical reaction can propel a projectile while at the same time creating energy for any use, which in this case is used to supplement the outgoing projectiles velocity and/or mass.
In Mass Effect all their tech is based around mass manipulation and in a far flung setting like Starfinder I am sure similar tech can exist.
The super efficient creation of energy storage and absorption is already something you have stated you are ok with in your example of laser swords, FTL travel and drives and force fields.
Now we are using those existing tech systems in a slightly different application to create the reaction cannon.
Very similar in concept to how current modern day automotive braking systems can create electricity from braking force, just infinitely more efficiently.
I'm not willing to suspend disbelief for "math doesn't work in this setting", though.How about this:
Reaction guns use an advanced energy redirection tech based on the same tech that allows force fields/shields. Basically an extremely efficient solid energy barrier that absorbs and redirects force into capacitors/storage system. That gives a solid reaction mass against which a thermo chemical reaction can propel a projectile while at the same time creating energy for any use, which in this case is used to supplement the outgoing projectiles velocity and/or mass.
In Mass Effect all their tech is based around mass manipulation and in a far flung setting like Starfinder I am sure similar tech can exist.
The super efficient creation of energy storage and absorption is already something you have stated you are ok with in your example of laser swords, FTL travel and drives and force fields.
Now we are using those existing tech systems in a slightly different application to create the reaction cannon.
Very similar in concept to how current modern day automotive braking systems can create electricity from braking force, just infinitely more efficiently.
What you described wouldn't achieve what Owen described. You would still have momentum going in two directions instead of doubling down into one.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
What you described wouldn't achieve what Owen described. You would still have momentum going in two directions instead of doubling down into one.
OK. You hate reaction cannons. Got it. In no time and in no way can any fictional technology ever exist to allow the concept to happen.
Glad that is cleared up.
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
This reminds me of all that criticism old school D&D used to get from medieval history buffs about inaccurate treatment of polearms. The more things change . . .
| 10 people marked this as a favorite. |
... In a setting where I can wear a ring that lets me move unhindered under water, I think it's already safe to say that math has been told to go sit in the back of the room and keep quiet unless called upon...
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
This reminds me of all that criticism old school D&D used to get from medieval history buffs about inaccurate treatment of polearms. The more things change . . .Naming, use, or carrying 20 at once?
Yes.
I used to be an Astrophysics postgrad (i.e. a professional scientist, junior grade). This is what you learn by studying science at the highest level:
Everything you think you know is wrong.
Best answer I have read about any scientific disscusion.
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
I am shocked...SHOCKED!...that RPG developers don't have such a complete understanding of how the science of their magi-tech setting compares to real world science. It's almost as if it's a throwaway technobabble explanation for an in-game mechanic, an explanation that 99.99% of the playerbase won't care about because they aren't being pedants over something that just does not matter.
In regards the actual topic of the thread, I'm glad that there's a Computer Use system in place that characters can focus on without bogging down the whole game for those that didn't. It's especially good to have it in the Core rules, as it means we're more likely to see it supported as the line goes on.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
They don't alter the net vector, as that is simply mathematically impossible. The reaction cannon, as described, would alter the net vector.
I'm fine with laser swords and whatever, as they're cool. I'm not fine with plain math being blatantly contradicted.
You are mixing up math and science here.
Mathematics tells us how vectors work. [An over-simplified statement, historically.]
Physics tells us that action/reaction works by vectors.
If physicists discover things that require them to change how action/reaction works, the math of vectors still holds up just fine.
[The math behind "acceleration due to gravity is constant" and "radioactive decay is an exponential function" works just fine, even though the statements are, technically, false.]
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
The lack of fatigue from swinging a giant battleaxe all day in Pathfinder, or being able to operate at 100% physical capacity despite losing almost all your hitpoints without a magical explanation already breaks biology, which breaks chemistry, which breaks physics, which breaks math.
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
The lack of fatigue from swinging a giant battleaxe all day in Pathfinder, or being able to operate at 100% physical capacity despite losing almost all your hitpoints without a magical explanation already breaks biology, which breaks chemistry, which breaks physics, which breaks math.
Let's not forget falling rules and lightning bolts underwater (altho Aquatic Adventures kind of dealt with the latter).
So .... back to hacking, i'm in favor of the "one computer skill" and would love any other teasers in relation to such.
also i'm sure somebody is going to ask.... can androids be hacked? cyber arms? etc? are hackers in starfinder going to be as annoying as the random rogue stealing your gear in pathfinder?
Androids and cybergear cannot be hacked. Something about them being in your living field and part of you means they are not hackable.
I am not sure of the reason. I am sure that they cannot be hacked.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So .... back to hacking, i'm in favor of the "one computer skill" and would love any other teasers in relation to such.
also i'm sure somebody is going to ask.... can androids be hacked? cyber arms? etc? are hackers in starfinder going to be as annoying as the random rogue stealing your gear in pathfinder?
Androids and cybergear cannot be hacked. Something about them being in your living field and part of you means they are not hackable.
I am not sure of the reason. I am sure that they cannot be hacked.
Hacking the soul is the domain of magic.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
well played folks, well played.What a coincidence, I'm also really interested in seeing what 6th-level technomancer spells look like.Hacking the soul is the domain of magic.So .... back to hacking, i'm in favor of the "one computer skill" and would love any other teasers in relation to such.
also i'm sure somebody is going to ask.... can androids be hacked? cyber arms? etc? are hackers in starfinder going to be as annoying as the random rogue stealing your gear in pathfinder?
Androids and cybergear cannot be hacked. Something about them being in your living field and part of you means they are not hackable.
I am not sure of the reason. I am sure that they cannot be hacked.
Don't thank me. I have no idea what is going on.
Hmm, thinking about it, I like the +20 DC for root. Let's say you're the sort of person that likes certainty, so you convince the Technomancer to blow a highest-slot spell on you, grab a couple temporary bonuses, and boost things to guarantee success. Now you can roll to see if you get the benefit of all those temporary modifiers (guaranteed access) permanently.
I can't help but think the succeed by +20 is also there to help speed along some of the parts where not being able to can result in doubling (or more) the time it takes to get through a given scenario.
You can have a team that has decent hackers but none that concentrate on it so most every time has to go take each step as it occurs or have a team that has that code monkey that knows how to quickly get through the common and uncommon stuff with little time wasted. They both will have tense moments when coming up with the more rare cases of systems that are more protected than normal though one group will have less chances at bad times.
Hacking the computer for clearance into a facility might not be very hard but trying to get into the R&D computer files of that facility might be leaps and bounds above what getting into the building are.
So .... back to hacking, i'm in favor of the "one computer skill" and would love any other teasers in relation to such.
also i'm sure somebody is going to ask.... can androids be hacked? cyber arms? etc? are hackers in starfinder going to be as annoying as the random rogue stealing your gear in pathfinder?
Androids and cybergear cannot be hacked. Something about them being in your living field and part of you means they are not hackable.
I am not sure of the reason. I am sure that they cannot be hacked.
the distinction made between artificial personalities and 'true consciousness' lead me to think that the former is hackable but not the latter. Cybergear seems like it should be able to be hacked, just a high DC or something.
the distinction made between artificial personalities and 'true consciousness' lead me to think that the former is hackable but not the latter. Cybergear seems like it should be able to be hacked, just a high DC or something.
They have already stated that that cannot happen in the cyberware/augmentations preview on the blog.
Once implanted, augmentations work just like your natural limbs and organs—a cybernetic arm is no more vulnerable to specific attacks or effects than your natural arm.
|
the distinction made between artificial personalities and 'true consciousness' lead me to think that the former is hackable but not the latter. Cybergear seems like it should be able to be hacked, just a high DC or something.They have already stated that that cannot happen in the cyberware/augmentations preview on the blog.
Once implanted, augmentations work just like your natural limbs and organs—a cybernetic arm is no more vulnerable to specific attacks or effects than your natural arm.
However, this means that a cybernetic arm is as vulnerable to magic that affects limbs as a natural arm. Wither Limb would incapacitate a cyber arm as easily as a natural arm, for example.
However, this means that a cybernetic arm is as vulnerable to magic that affects limbs as a natural arm. Wither Limb would incapacitate a cyber arm as easily as a natural arm, for example.
That would seem logical and reasonable give what they have said. It will be interesting to see what spells they have and how they interact now.
I really wanted to be able to hack everyone's cyber-eyes and replace my head with an animated logo.
SM
Just use a holographic faceplate and load up as many facial 'screen savers' as you can get and swap them out as you want. Or have them on slideshow.