Multi-Tiered Organizations

[Onishi]

I think I brought this up once, but since it was in the middle of one of the ridiculously over sized PVP discussions I figured it could use an area of direct focus.

Anyway the concept is for guilds/allience/whatever they will be called, to be more or less broken up into different tiers for the sake of getting large group benefits, while still allowing small groups of people who like to play together feeling left out. IMO quite a few games have a drawback of needing to be in a huge guild to not be steamrolled but many people like to be in a small guild of friends. An idea I think that could work well would be

Empire -- A large group of allied kingdoms (kingdoms may if they chose succeed from an empire and join another if voted on by their leadership.

Kingdoms -- Actual cities owned, with their own government, A kingdom should be able to appoint it's own taxes, government officials and positions, etc... Which will effect the main areas of what type buildings etc... can be constructed. and maintained A kingdom should be able to house at least 1000 players

Alliences/clans/guilds -- These should get 1 building within a kingdom. Possibly their own market front or crafting area. Clans should be allowed as few or as many members as desired(although a kingdom may chose not to use up space/construction time for a clan under 5 members or so, but the small clan could opt to find a city that will accommodate).

This would allow a group that wants a small personal group of friends to more or less have the diplomatic ties of a 1000 person group (the empire they loosely serve under). Without costing them the small group feel of being in a small exclusive clan.

It also would be interesting if there were sub-organizations completely separate, untied to such with confidential membership, say a pickpocket organization, or a spies group, or an order of traveling salesmen etc... Groups that may only have 1 member in any city, but their membership is kept from anyone who is not currently a member (these orders can also be player created and lead, so as to give the option to monitor or create their own application process to determine themselves if someone joining is just trying to spy/find out membership etc...)

[Xeriar]

I'd much prefer if we could dictate our own hierarchy. Why do I need allies to call my realm an empire? Or organize my subguilds into Clans, with Families under them?

An alliance could call itself an empire, and model itself after the HRE, say. But that doesn't make it more of an empire than the actual Roman Empire.

[Onishi]

Xeriar wrote:

I'd much prefer if we could dictate our own hierarchy. Why do I need allies to call my realm an empire? Or organize my subguilds into Clans, with Families under them?

An alliance could call itself an empire, and model itself after the HRE, say. But that doesn't make it more of an empire than the actual Roman Empire.

I wouldn't be opposed to it being able to be broken down as desired, however it goes, I'm hoping for a system to actually allow the concept of a small guild. The way it sounds, progression and survival will require a city, a city will absolutely require protection. Having a trickle down effect that permits being in a very large group, but having a more close knit inner circle, would accommodate far more then the standard MMO, One big 500+ person clump.

I certainly wouldn't mind if the concept of permitting as many tiers as desired instead of a set structure, but I have no idea on how practical that would be from a development side.

[Elth]

I would love to see something where guilds could live under the protection of the much more veteran organizations that have formed a Kingdom or Empire.

Things like Merchant, Teamster and Tradesman guilds would operate under their own authority, to serve from within a city, but follow the local laws and customs dictated by the Kingdom or Empire of which they reside.
Smaller guilds such as this may have to pay taxes to the City which would be merely a small flat percentage of profit that basically pays for things like city watch patrols and upkeep of the surrounding streets and sewers. They would be responsible for the upkeep of their own building.

Kingdoms or Empires could even have an Embassy located in other cities. An Empire that has an Embassy in someone else s city might have certain benefits to trading or even diplomatic protection whilst in that city.

Like Onishi put forward, an Empire would be a collection of Kingdoms (or whatever form of government they wish to uphold) that all share a treaty. The Empire would not be able to dictate the rank structure or hierarchy of those within it's alliance outside their own Kingdom as each Kingdom is represented by their own leadership. However, they might be able to persuade others to take on their rank structure as part of the treaty.

This is a good idea as it would allow smaller guilds to operate within the larger guilds city in relative safety. Perfect for those that don't want to take part in much conflict and would prefer to adventure or craft without being hassled by the much larger organizations.

I think using the word Empire is merely for simplicity sake to get the point across. If you lead a discussion with "Empire/Theocracy/Aristocracy" it's just going to get confusing. I think Empire just covers a collection of Large organizations that have signed an alliance treaty to work toward a common goal.

[Xeriar]

Onishi wrote:

I wouldn't be opposed to it being able to be broken down as desired, however it goes, I'm hoping for a system to actually allow the concept of a small guild. The way it sounds, progression and survival will require a city, a city will absolutely require protection. Having a trickle down effect that permits being in a very large group, but having a more close knit inner circle, would accommodate far more then the standard MMO, One big 500+ person clump.

I certainly wouldn't mind if the concept of permitting as many tiers as desired instead of a set structure, but I have no idea on how practical that would be from a development side.

From dev comments, it seems they are toying with the idea that a character's personal progression will be real time based. You choose what you want your character to focus on, and possibly with some minimum login requirements (which might be more relaxed for subscribers), you'll 'level up' just fine. If they go this route I hope people who join 'late' do have some ability to catch up eventually, so that someone who joins a year late is not perpetually a year behind.

Founding a city is going to represent your impact on the world, but I'd hope it isn't the only method.

As for multi-tiered hierarchies, I am interested, I just don't like the idea of giving them fixed names. One such alliance might call themselves an Empire, devoted to facing off a single group which calls its realm an Empire, while another represents a cross-guild alliance that has little in the way of actual real estate.