Paizo Pricing & Sustainability Update

Also, if you know a school, library, club, or nonprofit that does not restrict its membership and needs Pathfinder or Starfinder products to get started, please email community@paizo.com with a request!

Also, if you know a school, library, club, or nonprofit that does not restrict its membership and needs Pathfinder or Starfinder products to get started, please email community@paizo.com with a request!

This is good to know. I appreciate that you are supporting these organizations.

However, I find the raising prices on already published PFS, SFS, etc, scenarios is bad all around. It appears that all your costs for these products have been paid and any income generated from them is just profit. Under your new pricing, over half of your scenarios are more than doubling in price (125% increase) going from $3.99 to $8.99, for PFS-1e seasons 0 thru 7. These seems excessive, to say the least.

This message is sponsored by the churches of Abadar and Gozreh.

It is RARE to see these two deific influences in agreement, so that in and of itself is remarkable.

RL issue though -- thank you very much for changing your box manufacturing supplier to a company that's ethically viable and reliable.

So sad to see the prices going up. 80 bucks for larger books is insane, although I understand the price increase. Ive been hearing about cardstock paper and ink skyrocketing up lately, Id presume some of the PDF increases in price is also to help keep those products cheaper and also offset the lack of a price increase in the core books. That being said I appreciate the transparency here, as always Paizo your transparency helps a lot in these situations. (this also makes me super happy I bought a lot of the older books like Book of the Dead when I did, as I get to avoid the price hike but still support yall lol) I still need to get the Lost Omens books though if not for anything but the Lore to help fuel ideas in any potential homebrew worlds I run. I was debating on getting the bestiary cards though, seems I should get them sooner rather than later.

I’m in Canada where the special edition hardcovers are already 99.99.

At what price does an RPG book become unaffordable for the majority of the people using?

If I’m buying RPG special editions from Paizo now for 149.99 instead of 99.99 I have to ask myself the big question.

Is it worth it?

Not at that price no and I’m in a position where I can afford it.

It’s just too much money for what it is.

Is the product worth that much money when you consider inflation and wages and everything else?

Yes.

Tough situation here Paizo.

I love your games and I can afford it so I will buy your books but I think if you end up shooting yourself in the foot with this pricing you should look at options that reflect your customer base and what their demographics can afford and will pay.

RPG books have stayed relatively flat price wise and I think this might just be the push most people need to either jump on the PDF or Piracy train.

Good luck.

Reminder that all of Paizo's rules are available for free online.

Regarding the price increase:

When you buy a product from a person who eats eggs and eggs cost more, you should pay more. Lest they starve...

Paizo is pro worker, pro environment, and for f#$% sake, more pro gamer than any other company on the planet.

I can't wait to play with every single one of you...

price increase is disappointing but understandable but I'm definitely going to go pdf only from now on due to the price increase .most of my games are online anyway

Bounties/Quests...

We use these to help onboard people into the GM eco-system.

The shorter sessions put less pressure on new GMs and we frequently schedule them in pairs to create GM round tables for an even friendlier shared experience.

Increasing their cost directly makes recruiting GMs harder.

At $5.99 they are 2/3rds the price of a 4-5 hour $8.99 Scenario so, less than half the gaming content.

The scenarios going up to $9 doesn't bother me, but I'd like to see the introductory material get cheaper rather than more expensive.

Add an optional tipping system ...

Hi again. I've rethought this idea after some folks raised with me how tipping culture can undermine union action and create a chaotic and unhealthy expectations around what workers have to do to encourage customers to tip.

I would still like some clear, straightforward ways for us as customers see how proceeds from our purchases flow through workers. I just don't know how this would look.

How an economy works.

I'm cool with the price increase, people gotta eat and live somewhere.

Cherax wrote:

Add an optional tipping system ...

Hi again. I've rethought this idea after some folks raised with me how tipping culture can undermine union action and create a chaotic and unhealthy expectations around what workers have to do to encourage customers to tip.

I would still like some clear, straightforward ways for us as customers see how proceeds from our purchases flow through workers. I just don't know how this would look.

Paizo and the United Paizo Workers have had a ratified contract since June. Pay for all union employees is determined by the contract, and tipping wouldn't impact those calculations (ie. they aren't based on revenue, aren't profit-sharing, and remain static even if the company makes less than target revenue.)

What increased revenue can do is help the company reach fiscal goals which has a direct impact on end-of-year bonuses that go to all employees, union and non-union alike. And consistently beating targets will make it easier for employees to negotiate higher salaries when the contract is up for renewal in a few years. Paizo is not going to share company financials publicly, however, so those asking for more transparency are going to have to trust that the union will ensure fair and equitable distribution of potential windfalls from within the company.

Aaron Shanks wrote:

This message is sponsored by the churches of Abadar and Gozreh.

It is RARE to see these two deific influences in agreement, so that in and of itself is remarkable.

RL issue though -- thank you very much for changing your box manufacturing supplier to a company that's ethically viable and reliable.

The old pdf increase is just greed. The remainder of the price increases is expected but would have been better at 50% of increase. Costs are up for businesses but putting so much onto the consumer is extreme.

With some hardcover special editions going to $99.99 now, will special edition covers go back to the better visual design of SE covers like Dark Archives, Book of the Dead, Kingmaker, etc. rather than the very plain "just the logo without anything else" look of Rage of Elements? I've been a devoted purchaser of SE hardcovers since I got into PF2e years ago, to the point that I own several books in both normal and SE cover versions, but RoE was such a disappointment that I'm inclined to switch that down to a regular hardcover subscription if that's the norm going forward. :(

Agreed. The special edition cover for Deadsuns was horrible! Just a plain, orange cover that felt pretty far from leather. Yikes.

I’m in Canada where the special edition hardcovers are already 99.99.

At what price does an RPG book become unaffordable for the majority of the people using?

If I’m buying RPG special editions from Paizo now for 149.99 instead of 99.99 I have to ask myself the big question.

Is it worth it?

Special Editions are for people who are loaded enough to pay a huge up-charge for a slightly different cover, so I don't see the issue here.

Also, if you know a school, library, club, or nonprofit that does not restrict its membership and needs Pathfinder or Starfinder products to get started, please email community@paizo.com with a request!

Do we need to be a librarian to put in a request for our local libraries?

I've loved Pathfinder since Rise of the RuneLords, and it's been a great ride.

I've made it a point to find a way to fit it into my budget, and I know it's a small increase, but I've had to slim down my budget constantly since 2020, and I'm afraid Pathfinder will be one of my next cuts, I was struggling with the previous increase, but it just might be the point I bow out.

Could there be something done to save us Subscribers a little extra?

Perhaps make APs one book? Less shipping? Find a creative solution, to help out the little guys.

Nobody likes prices going up, but happy to do my part to keep your staff and the planet is good condition.

MrVauxs wrote:

Leahcim wrote:

What I don't understand is the need to increase the prices of digital products already available. Could you explain that further?

"Paizo is not immune to economic factors like inflation, nor industry-wide fluctuations in cost-of-goods, labor, or shipping and logistics, and we must periodically adjust our prices to reflect rising costs"

That explains the increase in digital and print products going forward, which I completely understand.

What that doesn't explain is why the prices of digital products whose production was already completed, in many cases years ago, are also increasing. I'm a developer who works on programs that serve up newly created digital data and also supply old data to customers, which no longer has the production costs associated. I am aware of the difference in costs to support those two types of operations. There is more to that decision than what is being presented in this blog. That's what I am hoping to learn with my question.

I'd think at least in part it's because trying to maintain mutiple prices based on the age of products is a logistical nightmare. Doing so for the core books forna year is one think but having to enter and track various levels of price codes gets more complex than it may seem. It also means you lose sales as some (not all) people only buy the older and lower priced content.

On another note:
As an oldtimer who's been at this since 1977 I can recall buying whole TTRPG boxed sets for $10-$15 when I started. Price increases suck and they make it hard for lower income gamers but TTRPGs are still, for most, the best hour per dollar bang for my buck of almost any entertainment that has a price attached. I've spent more hours than I can count playing TTRPGS and even when I add up all the books and supplements and divide the cost across all those hours I'm still paying less than the cost of a movie on a cost per hour basis. Note, I inculde the time spent and enjoyment I get from just reading TTRPG products in that equation.

My biggest question is of some of this price increase is going to increase the pay of artists and writers on these products?

Notice/explanation appreciated, thanks!

Aaron Shanks wrote:

Also, if you know a school, library, club, or nonprofit that does not restrict its membership and needs Pathfinder or Starfinder products to get started, please email community@paizo.com with a request!

Do we need to be a librarian to put in a request for our local libraries?

I'm in Massachusetts and go to a few libraries. I even volunteered to teach teens how to play trpgs, until 2019 for obvious reasons, when public places were dangerous.

Someone connected to the library system would be best yes. I'm the one who answers those emails, so just have the local library reach out to the community email and I'll see how I can help out.

I am a librarian, but not one in charge of Collections. Let me talk to our collections department!

Aaron Shanks wrote:

Also, if you know a school, library, club, or nonprofit that does not restrict its membership and needs Pathfinder or Starfinder products to get started, please email community@paizo.com with a request!

Do we need to be a librarian to put in a request for our local libraries?

I'm in Massachusetts and go to a few libraries. I even volunteered to teach teens how to play trpgs, until 2019 for obvious reasons, when public places were dangerous.

Where are you located as I know that some of my local libraries in Massachusetts (Boston) carry those books and they might be able to help if they did it already?

I've loved Pathfinder since Rise of the RuneLords, and it's been a great ride.

I've made it a point to find a way to fit it into my budget, and I know it's a small increase, but I've had to slim down my budget constantly since 2020, and I'm afraid Pathfinder will be one of my next cuts, I was struggling with the previous increase, but it just might be the point I bow out.

Could there be something done to save us Subscribers a little extra?

Perhaps make APs one book? Less shipping? Find a creative solution, to help out the little guys.

In our recent Update from Paizo President Jim Butler we announced we are working on new technology, a new store, and new forums. Offering a more robust reward program than the current Paizo Advantage and allowing for more robust subscription options are part of our goals.

I am a librarian, but not one in charge of Collections. Let me talk to our collections department!

Library Collections departments can buy through Baker and Taylor distribution and we can give kits to get a onsite play program started. Some libraries can host Organized Play if a nearby FLGS does not have the space!

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

This message is sponsored by the churches of Abadar and Gozreh.

It is RARE to see these two deific influences in agreement, so that in and of itself is remarkable.

RL issue though -- thank you very much for changing your box manufacturing supplier to a company that's ethically viable and reliable.

The old pdf increase is just greed. The remainder of the price increases is expected but would have been better at 50% of increase. Costs are up for businesses but putting so much onto the consumer is extreme.

2 points :

1. We very likely should have been paying more for Paizo products for a long long time. All the products bought before have saved buyers good money. It's good that Paizo will earn money when making and selling good products.

2. It is simpler to put the same price on all similar products and the amount gained through this has to stay the same anyway. So if they had not increased the price for old products, the price increase for new products would have been steeper.

And I appreciate that we get some advance warning from Paizo.

So, the same way you are going to increase the price due to rising "economic factor"; if that factor goes down in the future, you will reduce the prices too... right?

Deflation is worse than inflation, for those of you who failed high school economics.

You had economics in high school?

You had economics in high school?

I taught economics in high school.

I must have failed it.

A huge THANK YOU for moving away from those awful packing peanuts. I hated seeing those whenever I opened a Paizo box.

+1

Is there a price increase planned for Kingmaker? It doesn't really fit into the examples in the post and I can't imagine a 640 page AP is going to remain $99.99 given the other price increases.

The old pdf increase is just greed. The remainder of the price increases is expected but would have been better at 50% of increase. Costs are up for businesses but putting so much onto the consumer is extreme.

As for your first sentence, prove it. As for your last, see my previous post regarding economics.

Supply chain costs have gone up for sure. And with high inflation, employee wages should go up as well. Paizo supported the unionization of its workers, which is admirable. Making games doesn't have huge profit margins and Paizo bosses aren't exactly sailing off into the sunset on gold-plated yachts. So I can understand how prices must go up to ensure that workers continue to be paid fairly.

I have a few comments about this latest round of price increases, which I'm sure will go over about as well as anything that isn't overly supportive of Paizo on these boards.

1. There's going to come a point where the glossy panels, copious artwork, wide margins, etc... are going to simply be too much of a burden on the consumer. And frankly, I think you're close already. To add my voice to the others, I already only get the bare minimum in books for PF2e and this is only going to cut that amount down. Moreover, when I do buy Paizo product its either (a) on sale or (b) secondhand. And Paizo products do seem to be on sale more and more often.

2. Using inflation as a crutch is a non-starter for me. You've set up shop outside of Seattle, Washington (The Seattle Times this year listed Seattle as one of the 10 most expensive places to live in the US). Its just basic math that you have to charge Seattle prices to make a living in Seattle. You have to pay your employees, your taxes, your utilities in Seattle dollars. Which is fine, except, surprise! not everyone lives in Seattle. There's people who play in the Midwest, in Appalachia, in small towns all over the country and your "passing the cost onto us" will continue to drive them away.

As a small company, I simply cannot see how this is a successful long term strategy for you. Yes, prices are going up - but they are going up for everyone - not just Paizo. And when it comes to the choice between people paying for rent, food, school, clothes or a bloated sourcebook that costs nearly $100- because every third page is glossy splash art, most people are not going to choose the latter. Moreover, I'm sure there are people like me who are looking at the remastered editions and thinking "maybe this is a good time to try another system" - not WotC and not Paizo. Because I can get more value for my shrinking dollar by looking for games with a little more fiscal discipline.

As a small company, I simply cannot see how this is a successful long term strategy for you. Yes, prices are going up - but they are going up for everyone - not just Paizo. And when it comes to the choice between people paying for rent, food, school, clothes or a bloated sourcebook that costs nearly $100- because every third page is glossy splash art, most people are not going to choose the latter. Moreover, I'm sure there are people like me who are looking at the remastered editions and thinking "maybe this is a good time to try another system" - not WotC and not Paizo. Because I can get more value for my shrinking dollar by looking for games with a little more fiscal discipline.

Not really no. These games are expensive and you are kind of self entitled to want to pay rip off prices for it.

Edit:
Also, please do support other creators and RPGs too. Its kind of funny that this is seen as a threat when having a health diversity of options being supported typically helps this industry a lot.

I have a few comments about this latest round of price increases, which I'm sure will go over about as well as anything that isn't overly supportive of Paizo on these boards.

1. There's going to come a point where the glossy panels, copious artwork, wide margins, etc... are going to simply be too much of a burden on the consumer. And frankly, I think you're close already. To add my voice to the others, I already only get the bare minimum in books for PF2e and this is only going to cut that amount down. Moreover, when I do buy Paizo product its either (a) on sale or (b) secondhand. And Paizo products do seem to be on sale more and more often.

2. Using inflation as a crutch is a non-starter for me. You've set up shop outside of Seattle, Washington (The Seattle Times this year listed Seattle as one of the 10 most expensive places to live in the US). Its just basic math that you have to charge Seattle prices to make a living in Seattle. You have to pay your employees, your taxes, your utilities in Seattle dollars. Which is fine, except, surprise! not everyone lives in Seattle. There's people who play in the Midwest, in Appalachia, in small towns all over the country and your "passing the cost onto us" will continue to drive them away.

As a small company, I simply cannot see how this is a successful long term strategy for you. Yes, prices are going up - but they are going up for everyone - not just Paizo. And when it comes to the choice between people paying for rent, food, school, clothes or a bloated sourcebook that costs nearly $100- because every third page is glossy splash art, most people are not going to choose the latter. Moreover, I'm sure there are people like me who are looking at the remastered editions and thinking "maybe this is a good time to try another system" - not WotC and not Paizo. Because I can get more value for my shrinking dollar by looking for games with a little more fiscal discipline.

They are actively addressing point two. They are now work from home with no physical office space. They are expanding their WFH to other states and thus not tying themselves to Seattle. That doesn't change that inflation still exists and will still cause prices to go up.

Because I can get more value for my shrinking dollar by looking for games with a little more fiscal discipline.

… isn’t Archives of Nethys free?

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

I am a librarian, but not one in charge of Collections. Let me talk to our collections department!

Library Collections departments can buy through Baker and Taylor distribution and we can give kits to get a onsite play program started. Some libraries can host Organized Play if a nearby FLGS does not have the space!

To add to what Aaron and Jon have already said, I'm also working on getting digital books (fiction first, maybe PDFs later if possible) onto apps like Libby as well.

Using inflation as a crutch is a non-starter for me. You've set up shop outside of Seattle, Washington (The Seattle Times this year listed Seattle as one of the 10 most expensive places to live in the US). Its just basic math that you have to charge Seattle prices to make a living in Seattle. You have to pay your employees, your taxes, your utilities in Seattle dollars. Which is fine, except, surprise! not everyone lives in Seattle.

Inflation isn't a "crutch" but an economic reality. Pretending that a dollar (whether spent by an employee on food or rent or by Paizo on printing, shipping, or other logistics) doesn't get less it did a few years ago is not a responsible or sustainable way to run a business.

If you read Jim Butler's most recent state of the company blog from this summer, you'll see that Paizo no longer has a physical office. Many of our employees are relocating to other parts of the country as we have transitioned to a remote work company. As part of this transition, we're also downsizing our warehouse, since we no longer need an attached office. All of these are cost-saving measures that counteract the high cost of living in western Washington. Employees who choose to move to other parts of the country don't have their wages decreased, however, so remote work isn't going to save the company a ton on labor. Salaries are mostly set by United Paizo Workers' collective bargaining agreement, so those numbers aren't going to change just because someone moves away from Seattle. It just means their wages go farther in lower COL areas.

And when it comes to the choice between people paying for rent, food, school, clothes or a bloated sourcebook that costs nearly $100- because every third page is glossy splash art, most people are not going to choose the latter.

Market research has shown that reducing art and making blander-looking books to save money does not increase sales, but rather the opposite. And in the grand scheme of production costs (labor, writing, art, printing, distribution, etc.), reducing the number of full- or half-page illustrations in our books or shrinking the margins and gutters to fit more words on a page aren't really going to change much in the way of overall costs.

If you aren't concerned with having a visually appealing book, and are concerned about price, you can get all of the rules content from our products for free without art via Archives of Nethys. We offer books in a variety of formats to give consumers the option to buy the one that matches their financial needs. So if you don't want to pay for the top-shelf deluxe version, you can opt for standard printings, pocket editions, digital versions (PDF or Nexus or a VTT adaptation, among others), or engage with the game via free resources entirely.

Yes, prices are going up - but they are going up for everyone - not just Paizo.

Paizo paying more for everything means that Paizo should not raise their prices? And that Paizo staff should not be paid increased wages to cover their increased costs for everything?

That seems to be a bad business decision on its face.

The realities of the market are not 'raise prices or don't raise prices', they are 'raise prices or stop publishing'.

The realities of the market are not 'raise prices or don't raise prices', they are 'raise prices or stop publishing'.

Yep. I was coming here to say exactly this. :3