October 2021 Organized Play Update

Congrats to Michael, Jocelyn, and Andrew!

A hearty congratulations to our ECL VL Jocelyn! Kudos!

That is a LOT of starship combat this year...

Starfinder Society Scenario #4-10: The Way In isn't part of the subscription?

Congratulations to Michael, Jocelyn, and Andrew on the achievements!

Starfinder Society Scenario #4-10: The Way In isn't part of the subscription?

Oops, it totally is, my error!

congratulations Andrew, Jocelyn and Michael

their abuse at the tables by people who aren’t interested in representing adventurers of all capabilities"

Im sorry, what?

Someone said wrote:

their abuse at the tables by people who aren’t interested in representing adventurers of all capabilities"

Im sorry, what?

The person who wrote that material got death threats and a bunch of fascists had temper tantrums over similar material.

Is there an ETA on when the new nanocyte Iconic will be released?

The Inheritor wrote:

Someone said wrote:

their abuse at the tables by people who aren’t interested in representing adventurers of all capabilities"

Im sorry, what?

The person who wrote that material got death threats and a bunch of fascists had temper tantrums over similar material.

What??

The Inheritor wrote:

Someone said wrote:

their abuse at the tables by people who aren’t interested in representing adventurers of all capabilities"

Im sorry, what?

The person who wrote that material got death threats and a bunch of fascists had temper tantrums over similar material.

Seriously, sometimes I truly hate people

Someone said wrote:

their abuse at the tables by people who aren’t interested in representing adventurers of all capabilities"

Im sorry, what?

What my colleague from Boston said, plus this is my way of saying "we are trying to make sure that power gamers can't get a rocket chair and make insensitive comments about wheelchair users while they're at it."

Is there an ETA on when the new nanocyte Iconic will be released?

If you mean the pregen, I recently discussed in the PFS forum that there are not any more pregens coming.

Accessibility and inclusivity are two huge goals that I am trying to work towards in both my personal and professional life. I was so happy to see items that allow people of all kinds to see themselves as adventurers.

Congratulations to Andrew, Jocelyn and Michael!

Hmm

Congratulations Andrew, Jocelyn and Michael. Fantastic achievement.

Many thanks all, it's been a blast.

Congratulations Andrew, Jocelyn and Michael!

The Inheritor wrote:

Someone said wrote:

their abuse at the tables by people who aren’t interested in representing adventurers of all capabilities"

Im sorry, what?

The person who wrote that material got death threats and a bunch of fascists had temper tantrums over similar material.

Because of course they did. >:(

The Inheritor wrote:

Someone said wrote:

their abuse at the tables by people who aren’t interested in representing adventurers of all capabilities"

Im sorry, what?

What my colleague from Boston said, plus this is my way of saying "we are trying to make sure that power gamers can't get a rocket chair and make insensitive comments about wheelchair users while they're at it."

Part of what makes me hesitant about that content is that its not necessarily just a power gamer issue but an in-universe one too. The character from the blog post a few days ago has small-scale combustion engine, a technology that vastly change the world, especially on the battlefield. I would think more technologically minded able-bodied individuals such as thrill-seeking gnomes would seek to utilize such technology. If this technology is easily accessible to restore mobility to the disabled, why isn't it available to enhance the able?

thrill-seeking gnomes would seek to utilize such technology.

They do, they just offer their limited production capabilities to those who need them most ^_^

Alex Speidel wrote:

The Inheritor wrote:

Someone said wrote:

their abuse at the tables by people who aren’t interested in representing adventurers of all capabilities"

Im sorry, what?

What my colleague from Boston said, plus this is my way of saying "we are trying to make sure that power gamers can't get a rocket chair and make insensitive comments about wheelchair users while they're at it."

Part of what makes me hesitant about that content is that its not necessarily just a power gamer issue but an in-universe one too. The character from the blog post a few days ago has small-scale combustion engine, a technology that vastly change the world, especially on the battlefield. I would think more technologically minded able-bodied individuals such as thrill-seeking gnomes would seek to utilize such technology. If this technology is easily accessible to restore mobility to the disabled, why isn't it available to enhance the able?

Pretty sure the inventor playtest had the ability to add it to their armor, so it probably is...

If this technology is easily accessible to restore mobility to the disabled, why isn't it available to enhance the able?

If everyone you saw with a rocket booster was in a wheel chair, how eager would you be to ride a rocket powered anything ?

If this technology is easily accessible to restore mobility to the disabled, why isn't it available to enhance the able?

Because this is a game, not a reality simulator; and the primary purpose of being inclusive is to allow people have fun, not to declare a "winner"?

I mean, yes, we all know that a lot of things don't make sense. In real life, anyone capable of casting illusory scene would quickly turn into the owner of Golarion's most depraved holodeck.

We don't need to be realistic on everything. Let's just suspend disbelief.

And, uh, maybe cut back on our fascist temper tantrums.

In real life, anyone capable of casting illusory scene would quickly turn into the owner of Golarion's most depraved holodeck.

.

Thats the sort of thing that does show up in game on occasion though. I don't think it changes much about society overall.

Congratulations to Michael, Jocelyn & Andrew!

Well done.

MVulpius wrote:

If this technology is easily accessible to restore mobility to the disabled, why isn't it available to enhance the able?

Because this is a game, not a reality simulator; and the primary purpose of being inclusive is to allow people have fun, not to declare a "winner"?

I mean, yes, we all know that a lot of things don't make sense. In real life, anyone capable of casting illusory scene would quickly turn into the owner of Golarion's most depraved holodeck.

We don't need to be realistic on everything. Let's just suspend disbelief.

And, uh, maybe cut back on our fascist temper tantrums.

The issue isn't realism or "winning", but consistency; if access to an item is available to one group but not another there should be a reason for it. We saw this a lot early on before Paizo got better about explaining access conditions.

(And they're still somewhat flawed; I have a gnoll flind character that I've had to jump through hoops and have been forced to somehow integrate backstory options/a background that I don't really want just to get access to nunchuku flindbar because Tien characters get a monopoly on it despite it being an iconic weapon among a subgroup of gnolls.)

Plus, part of being inclusive is representation and we can't have proper representation without figuring out a way to explain what is and isn't an appropriate user.

And I hope it wasn't your intention but please don't lump me in with the losers that would send death threats over a bit of homebrew. I was asking because I enjoy adventurers of different sizes and abilities and curious about how the fluff implications might open up character ideas for me.

For instance, would an aquatic ancestry using this be proper? We haven't seen any properly aquatic ancestries yet (Azarketi are more amphibious) but going by 1e they tend to have a 5-10ft land speed. Similarly, fox-form kitsune now have limited mobility being permeantly stuck at 10ft movement.

In-universe these are both disabilities compared to able-bodied humans (one more obvious than the other, but still valid) that would be helped by a wheelchair. Would these be allowed? Or are in-universe representations of ability and disability too far from PFS's vision of inclusivity?

P.S.
Congrats to Michael, Jocelyn, Andrew!

I don't know if they will be allowed (I have zero power).

I just note for ancestries like azarketi and kitsune, their speed penalties are supposed to be balanced by other advantages. The goal of a rocket-powered wheelchair or whatever is an advantage to counteract a specific penalty. Letting an azarketi take a mobility device unbalances the ancestry.

The easiest solution is to make the access condition very specific. Wheelchairs are Rare and their access condition is "the character is mobility-impaired." It's not realistic but it maintains the spirit of the game.

The thing is they are mobility-impaired.

The thing is they are mobility-impaired.

Compared to a human yes, or.. compared to any reasonable estimation of a foxes running speed yes (seriously they can run 30 miles an hour.. why on earth are they SLOW of all disadvantages?)

But for their species they're right on average.

You don't want a non disabled dwarf riding around in one for the mechanical advantage

you don't want the mechanical disadvantage of a slower speed to go to a species like an elf because then you're hurting the character for a choice to play their character a certain way.

Solving those, which have out of game implications, doesn't leave much room for in game verisimilitude solution that I can see.

Plus you have the fact that something like this already exists: mounts. So how is it different for an azarketi to increase their land speed by riding a horse vs buying an expensive chair?

Maybe let others buy them at a high price and function like a mount, but give them for free to those deemed disabled enough? (Though that seems wrong too since one of the issues disabled folk face is being judged for not being as disabled as others. e.g would wheelchairs be allowed for those that have difficulty walking such as having a bone deformity or be limited to just paralyzed characters?)

Though that doesn't solve the issue of disrespectful players. I guess that could be handled by community standards the same as if a player came in with a Sambo-esque Garundi character or started doing a racist accent for a Tien character.

I don't see an easy solution either.

Though that doesn't solve the issue of disrespectful players. I guess that could be handled by community standards the same as if a player came in with a Sambo-esque Garundi character or started doing a racist accent for a Tien character.

I don't see an easy solution either.

In my experience, a disrespectful player is always going to find a way to be disrespectful. The only way I've found to handle them is to call them on it until they learn some decency or they leave. There's no game mechanics for it and we can't treat it like something that can be solved with rules text.

We can't lock people out of accessibility items because someone is going to be an arse for the same reason we can't say "you can't play a Tien character because we had a Blowhard pulls the corners of his eyes and uses a crummy accent".

In my experience, a disrespectful player is always going to find a way to be disrespectful.

I think that isn't quite right.

While I certainly agree that there are a subset of players who are always going to be disrespectful I also think that there is a subset of players who are being disrespectful through ignorance. They just don't realize that what they're doing is unacceptable.

The latter CAN be helped by good guidelines. Even if they don't read them themselves (players in this category tend to be newbies) it gives the GM/Venture Critter something to point at when they're making their point and changes it from "somebodies opinion" to "these are the rules of the game".

Most certainly doesn't work all of the time but I think it DOES help some of the time.

The thing is they are mobility-impaired.

No. Mobility-impaired is not the same as slow.

In PF2 mechanics, "mobility impaired" would be a tag that applies to a Rare condition which reduces speed relative to that ancestry's typical speed; the wheelchair would be a Rare item that has the Mobility Impaired tag and requires the character has the condition.

I suppose wheelchairs that enhance speed could work as higher level magically enhanced items -- but they should be at least as expensive as equivalent magical footwear.

Are we going to be running games where every player is playing bumper cars with their characters in wheelchairs? If that's the case, then I vote to ban them from Society outright.

Are we going to be running games where every player is playing bumper cars with their characters in wheelchairs? If that's the case, then I vote to ban them from Society outright.

Thats what the rules try to avoid by giving them no mechanical advantage

Jimmy Dick wrote:

Are we going to be running games where every player is playing bumper cars with their characters in wheelchairs? If that's the case, then I vote to ban them from Society outright.

Thats what the rules try to avoid by giving them no mechanical advantage

That's what I am hoping goes into effect.

So, my initial thought is something like a wheelchair would have to provide no advantage over walking whatsoever. Walking across or rolling across magma would both scorch you. Walking vs rolling over a trip wire would potentially snare you. Getting hit with a debilitating strike would reduce your speed regardless if that speed is derived by legs or wheels. As long as a wheel chair, prosthetic limb, whatever provides the exact effects as the thing they replace, no better, no worse, then I don't see the problem. There would be no good reason for those that need them to not have them, and there would be no good reason for those who don't need them to have them. OTOH, if there is any variation whatsoever for good or ill, then they should be banned, IMO.

I can hardly wait for some of the archetypes in Grand Bazaar to be sanctioned.

I would be consider that things like wheelchairs would occupy the boot slot as both of the magical versions are focused on mobility rocket boots vs rocket chair. things like a traveler's chair should be provided because it doesn't provide a mechanical advantage.