Unseasonably Warm?

Thank you for getting this out there! I'm looking forward to both, but I know there are a lot of people especially looking forward to the new faction.

I'm jumping through some hoops to download the new files since the download page seems to be misbehaving--so I might have missed something somewhere. Do you have any more information on how the free change to the Concordance will work? (Or is it covered in the Guide?) For example:

- Do you keep your existing faction journal card bonuses?

- Are characters able to switch for the duration of the season or do they need to change faction immediately prior to the next time they're played?

(etc?)

One additional and possibly dumb question: what faction should the Concordance play as in earlier scenarios?

This information is not in the new version guide, and it is critical.

I have an eighth level bard who has a ton of Dark archive faction card checkoffs who is switching to the Concordance. I am certain that I am not the only person with a higher level character who wants to switch over. Does she have to leave them all behind in order to switch? What happens the the extra languages she earned? Do they evaporate?

I looked to see if mechanics for the switch are in 9-14, and they are not. Can someone freely switchover before the scenario starts to earn the Concordance benefits, provided they are level 1-5?

Hmm

PS I love the new Concordance traits! Cup may have to take extra traits just to get a Concordance trait!

One more operational question, and this is one that perhaps someone who is not John or Linda can answer: does anybody know what this paragraph means?

It's been around a while but I've never actually tried to understand it before. I am currently failing my cognition check. :( This doesn't mean that if you GM a Scarab Sage scenario you can assign subtier 7-8 credit, including gold, to a level 2 character (for example), does it? That seems too crazy to be true.

As a temporary answer, Linda, Tonya, and I had discussed how swapping factions works (quite painless and permissive). Since my colleagues have both headed out for the day, I'd just like to touch base with them tomorrow to ensure we're all on the same page before posting details.

As a temporary answer, Linda, Tonya, and I had discussed how swapping factions works (quite painless and permissive). Since my colleagues have both headed out for the day, I'd just like to touch base with them tomorrow to ensure we're all on the same page before posting details.

Thanks for the response, John. We appreciate it!

Thank you, John. Painless and permissive sounds intriguing. I look forward to hearing what you all come up with!

Hmm

PS Alex, I am betting that page 28 referred to the old capstone scenarios for Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge. GMs were allowed to apply those scenarios to their characters that were too high to experience the adventure — they willingly took less gold to get the capstone boon and story on their characters. I have NO idea what this might refer to in the current mix of factions, especially since the Scarab Sage capstone is in a 7-11.

The Concordance looks good to me. There are some interesting traits, and the faction goals seem appropriate. I'm looking forward to playing one of the two characters I've got who are going to make the switch in Down the Verdant Path.

The Concordance looks good to me.

My only complaint is that Planar Voyager is massively underwhelming against Reactionary or Adopted + Warrior of Old. Literally half the bonus, with a condition where Reaction and Warrior of Old have none.

EDIT: I should point out that traits are supposed to be half as much as feats; this is a quarter of Improved Initiative with a requirement to get it.

Thank you, John. Painless and permissive sounds intriguing. I look forward to hearing what you all come up with!

Hmm

PS Alex, I am betting that page 28 referred to the old capstone scenarios for Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge. GMs were allowed to apply those scenarios to their characters that were too high to experience the adventure — they willingly took less gold to get the capstone boon and story on their characters. I have NO idea what this might refer to in the current mix of factions, especially since the Scarab Sage capstone is in a 7-11.

Oh, I bet you're right. That makes sense, I just never thought about it because those all happened before my time. And yeah, that language absolutely makes things weird for a 7-11.

Ferious Thune wrote:

The Concordance looks good to me.

My only complaint is that Planar Voyager is massively underwhelming against Reactionary or Adopted + Warrior of Old. Literally half the bonus, with a condition where Reaction and Warrior of Old have none.

EDIT: I should point out that traits are supposed to be half as much as feats; this is a quarter of Improved Initiative with a requirement to get it.

Yeah, that particular one is underwhelming, unless you're heading into Season 8. But most of the factions have at least 1 underwhelming trait. In general, I like the options.

What is the process for wands with a price change due to the new class rank. Especially those with partial charges and/or purchased with prestige?

For the retraining synergies, is it intended that if a class replaces another class, like arcanist and wizard, that those two classes also have synergy with each other? Simply substituting "arcanist" everywhere that "wizard" appears would not explicitly give them synergy with each other, but it seems logical that they should have it. That's true for most of the ACG classes. This question came up last time the synergies were updated (in the Year of the Sky Key QA blog post), but I could not find an answer there.

Also, as currently written, Shaman and Witch do not have synergy. Replacing "druid" with "shaman" does not grant synergy between shaman and witch, because Druid does not have synergy with witch. Is that intentional? This question also came up in the thread from the Sky Key blog, without answer. Other synergy items from that thread appear to have been addressed.

EDIT: One more. There is a note that alternate classes have synergy with the same classes as their base class. Does that mean they also have synergy with their base class? If a Cavalier 1/Fighter 3 wanted to retrain to Samurai 1/Fighter 3, for example, would it have synergy?

Thank you, John. Painless and permissive sounds intriguing. I look forward to hearing what you all come up with!

Hmm

PS Alex, I am betting that page 28 referred to the old capstone scenarios for Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge. GMs were allowed to apply those scenarios to their characters that were too high to experience the adventure — they willingly took less gold to get the capstone boon and story on their characters. I have NO idea what this might refer to in the current mix of factions, especially since the Scarab Sage capstone is in a 7-11.

It would be nice if it meant I could apply it as GM credit to my level 14 Sage who already played most of the major Sage specific scenarios, and maxed out a Sage faction journal card. I'd be fine with whatever reduced rewards were granted as long as I got the boon on their last scenario.

Also, thanks to the whole PFS team for all the hard work that went into getting these scenarios and updates out. I've already started prepping 9-14, and it looks like a lot of fun.

the guide doesnt show as being updated in the 'my downloads' page, however after re downloading it is the 9.1 version

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

Thank you, John. Painless and permissive sounds intriguing. I look forward to hearing what you all come up with!

Hmm

PS Alex, I am betting that page 28 referred to the old capstone scenarios for Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge. GMs were allowed to apply those scenarios to their characters that were too high to experience the adventure — they willingly took less gold to get the capstone boon and story on their characters. I have NO idea what this might refer to in the current mix of factions, especially since the Scarab Sage capstone is in a 7-11.

It would be nice if it meant I could apply it as GM credit to my level 14 Sage who already played most of the major Sage specific scenarios, and maxed out a Sage faction journal card. I'd be fine with whatever reduced rewards were granted as long as I got the boon on their last scenario.

Yeah I also know someone that would apply that in a heartbeat to his currently level 17 Venture Captain

I love Azure!

Ferious Thune wrote:

The Concordance looks good to me.

My only complaint is that Planar Voyager is massively underwhelming against Reactionary or Adopted + Warrior of Old. Literally half the bonus, with a condition where Reaction and Warrior of Old have none.

EDIT: I should point out that traits are supposed to be half as much as feats; this is a quarter of Improved Initiative with a requirement to get it.

It also gives a bonus to saves.

When will we be able to create characters as members of Concordance on site?

The faction journal cards (both full- and half-sheets) have an extra copy of the Grand Lodge before The Concordance. The new faction is also not alphabetized like everything else.

If a character is going to take advantage of the free faction switch, does that need to be documented on a chronicle sheet or anywhere else when it happens?

Is there going to be a changelog blog for the updated Guide?

If a character is going to take advantage of the free faction switch, does that need to be documented on a chronicle sheet or anywhere else when it happens?

Just on the faction line of their next chronicle. Adding it to the ITS as a free change is not a bad idea as well.

Ferious Thune wrote:

The Concordance looks good to me.

My only complaint is that Planar Voyager is massively underwhelming against Reactionary or Adopted + Warrior of Old. Literally half the bonus, with a condition where Reaction and Warrior of Old have none.

EDIT: I should point out that traits are supposed to be half as much as feats; this is a quarter of Improved Initiative with a requirement to get it.

I think most people are missing out that it also gives a +1 to ALL saves when not on the material plane, that is equivalent to one and a half feats when it applies, which certainly brings up the 'power' level to at least half a feat. Technically when it works the trait is worth one and 3/4 feats, which seems reasonable for the limited times it will come into play, but positively incredible if you play through season 8 a lot with it and get to use it most of the time.

SCPRedMage wrote:

Ferious Thune wrote:

The Concordance looks good to me.

My only complaint is that Planar Voyager is massively underwhelming against Reactionary or Adopted + Warrior of Old. Literally half the bonus, with a condition where Reaction and Warrior of Old have none.

EDIT: I should point out that traits are supposed to be half as much as feats; this is a quarter of Improved Initiative with a requirement to get it.

I think most people are missing out that it also gives a +1 to ALL saves when not on the material plane, that is equivalent to one and a half feats when it applies, which certainly brings up the 'power' level to at least half a feat. Technically when it works the trait is worth one and 3/4 feats, which seems reasonable for the limited times it will come into play, but positively incredible if you play through season 8 a lot with it and get to use it most of the time.

Yep. That's why I qualified my post with "unless you're heading into Season 8." It's really good when it applies. Other than that season, it's a very small portion of scenarios. But maybe there will continue to be a fair amount of planar travel going forward (there's at least 1 scenario in season 9), or in Concordance scenarios in particular. That would bring the value of the trait up quite a bit.

For the purposes of faction journal cards, are demiplanes considered to be "a plane other than the Material Plane"?

For the purposes of faction journal cards, are demiplanes considered to be "a plane other than the Material Plane"?

When you're on a demiplane, you're not on the Material Plane.

Amusingly enough, this would also apply to people crammed into a bag of holding. Need to eke out that last bit of Fortitude save bonus against an ongoing poison? Jump into that portable hole!

shaventalz wrote:

For the purposes of faction journal cards, are demiplanes considered to be "a plane other than the Material Plane"?

When you're on a demiplane, you're not on the Material Plane.

Amusingly enough, this would also apply to people crammed into a bag of holding. Need to eke out that last bit of Fortitude save bonus against an ongoing poison? Jump into that portable hole!

Sorcerer casts "Create Pit" on the Concordance member. "I'm just trying to help!"

I know that I am eyeing that trait! The concordance is the faction that has fit my goals -- the one that I have been working towards, all this time. It is a perfect fit for my character.

BTW, I cannot switch on the site yet. I tried to flip Cup to the Concordance, and cannot yet.

Hmm

When can we expect more sanctioned content?

When can we expect more sanctioned content?

Not really the best place to ask this very specific question. This thread is dedicated to talking about how awesome these two new releases are!

I understand now! The Concordance sent me as an advance agent to lay the groundwork before starting as a proper faction!

Seriously, I’ve been excited about this faction since it was announced. I created this character not long after running Tyranny of Winds twice, and I made the Concordance part of her background. And now she can be in the Concordance again!

Here's a changelog for guide 9.1 (minus a few boring bits like updating years and page numbers).
Page 11: We added some clarification on Pregens and APL.
Page 21: This page has updated rules for which class is assumed to have crafted potions, wands, and scrolls, to determine spell level and caster level. Nothing changes if you'd already had an item crafted by a wizard, druid, or cleric, but these rules determine, say, what to do if a spell is only on the bard and bloodrager lists.
Page 27: A short blurb on the Concordance has been added to the faction section of character creation.
Pages 28-29: These pages have been updated to re-introduce the rule about PCs being able to use boons and prestige awards from some of the retired factions. We've also added a faction-write up for the Concordance, including faction traits.
Pages 30-33: We revised the Grand Lodge faction's motto and flavor text, and updated the introductory text for several other factions to remove lingering season 8 references.
Pages 38-39: This new appendix expands the retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign to include the classes that have been published since that book's release, as well as to introduce Pathfinder Society rules for retraining archetypes, prestige classes, and alternate classes.
Page 41: We updated RVC information, including adding Jesse Davis as RVC of the Online region, and streamlined some of the text.

shaventalz wrote:

For the purposes of faction journal cards, are demiplanes considered to be "a plane other than the Material Plane"?

When you're on a demiplane, you're not on the Material Plane.

Amusingly enough, this would also apply to people crammed into a bag of holding. Need to eke out that last bit of Fortitude save bonus against an ongoing poison? Jump into that portable hole!

Time to invest in that ring of blinking.

Can we get links to the new Guide to Organized Play and the Faction Cards imbedded into the blog above, ESPECIALLY in light of the paizo.com website face lift.

Thank you.

Edit: After 29 minutes of searching, I found them in the Free Downloads section of PFS, however both items state last updated August 2017.

Thank you for the Changelog Linda, considering how the long the guide is and how long it would take to compare the versions, it is really invaluable.

Thanks for all the work.

Now that the scroll prioritization is completed, can we get some clearer language in the FAQ about the activation of scrolls by UMD and the relevant casting stat? The answer in the FAQ seems internal inconsistent on whether a character can activate a wizard/sorcerer spell scroll using Charisma, since the sorcerer would not be the default crafter.

I think most people are missing out that it also gives a +1 to ALL saves when not on the material plane, that is equivalent to one and a half feats when it applies, which certainly brings up the 'power' level to at least half a feat. Technically when it works the trait is worth one and 3/4 feats, which seems reasonable for the limited times it will come into play, but positively incredible if you play through season 8 a lot with it and get to use it most of the time.

Aye, I did miss the save bonus on my quick read last night, and it certainly shifts my opinion. The usefulness of this trait is highly dependent on the adventures; if you make sure to choose the right adventures you play in, you can likely get the bonus near 100% of the time, which would make this an incredibly strong trait.

Here's a changelog for guide 9.1 (minus a few boring bits like updating years and page numbers).

Page 11: We added some clarification on Pregens and APL.
Page 21: This page has updated rules for which class is assumed to have crafted potions, wands, and scrolls, to determine spell level and caster level. Nothing changes if you'd already had an item crafted by a wizard, druid, or cleric, but these rules determine, say, what to do if a spell is only on the bard and bloodrager lists.
Page 27: A short blurb on the Concordance has been added to the faction section of character creation.
Pages 28-29: These pages have been updated to re-introduce the rule about PCs being able to use boons and prestige awards from some of the retired factions. We've also added a faction-write up for the Concordance, including faction traits.
Pages 30-33: We revised the Grand Lodge faction's motto and flavor text, and updated the introductory text for several other factions to remove lingering season 8 references.
Pages 38-39: This new appendix expands the retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign to include the classes that have been published since that book's release, as well as to introduce Pathfinder Society rules for retraining archetypes, prestige classes, and alternate classes.
Page 41: We updated RVC information, including adding Jesse Davis as RVC of the Online region, and streamlined some of the text.

Just wanted to say thank you, Linda--this sort of changelog is absolutely invaluable, and is really appreciated.

Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:

Here's a changelog for guide 9.1 (minus a few boring bits like updating years and page numbers).

Page 11: We added some clarification on Pregens and APL.
Page 21: This page has updated rules for which class is assumed to have crafted potions, wands, and scrolls, to determine spell level and caster level. Nothing changes if you'd already had an item crafted by a wizard, druid, or cleric, but these rules determine, say, what to do if a spell is only on the bard and bloodrager lists.
Page 27: A short blurb on the Concordance has been added to the faction section of character creation.
Pages 28-29: These pages have been updated to re-introduce the rule about PCs being able to use boons and prestige awards from some of the retired factions. We've also added a faction-write up for the Concordance, including faction traits.
Pages 30-33: We revised the Grand Lodge faction's motto and flavor text, and updated the introductory text for several other factions to remove lingering season 8 references.
Pages 38-39: This new appendix expands the retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign to include the classes that have been published since that book's release, as well as to introduce Pathfinder Society rules for retraining archetypes, prestige classes, and alternate classes.
Page 41: We updated RVC information, including adding Jesse Davis as RVC of the Online region, and streamlined some of the text.

Just wanted to say thank you, Linda--this sort of changelog is absolutely invaluable, and is really appreciated.

Thank you from me too!

This information is not in the new version guide, and it is critical.

I have an eighth level bard who has a ton of Dark archive faction card checkoffs who is switching to the Concordance. I am certain that I am not the only person with a higher level character who wants to switch over. Does she have to leave them all behind in order to switch? What happens the the extra languages she earned? Do they evaporate?

I looked to see if mechanics for the switch are in 9-14, and they are not. Can someone freely switchover before the scenario starts to earn the Concordance benefits, provided they are level 1-5?

Hmm

PS I love the new Concordance traits! Cup may have to take extra traits just to get a Concordance trait!

Did this question get addressed? I saw John's response that he wanted to huddle with the team before replying but didn't see anything after that.

As a temporary answer, Linda, Tonya, and I had discussed how swapping factions works (quite painless and permissive). Since my colleagues have both headed out for the day, I'd just like to touch base with them tomorrow to ensure we're all on the same page before posting details.

Since the weekend is coming and lots and lots of people are about to play the new Concordance scenario, any update on this?

I was able to find a ruling from a previous blog...THIS BLOG

If your character would like to become a part of this new initiative, keep an eye out for the faction's formal launch in early 2018. As with other faction changes, you'll be able to switch your character over to the Concordance freely without spending Prestige Points.

@Linda: first, thanks for the changelog. Makes our life easier.

Here's a changelog for guide 9.1 (minus a few boring bits like updating years and page numbers).

Page 11: We added some clarification on Pregens and APL.

I'm very happy with this. It's a subject I've been pestering you guys about for a while. I think the new rule should resolve a lot of arguments.

Page 21: This page has updated rules for which class is assumed to have crafted potions, wands, and scrolls, to determine spell level and caster level. Nothing changes if you'd already had an item crafted by a wizard, druid, or cleric, but these rules determine, say, what to do if a spell is only on the bard and bloodrager lists.

This is an interesting change. There's a slight bit of ambiguity in the text though: if a spell does appear on the wizard/cleric/druid/psychic list, should we also only look in the first book where it's published to determine its level?

For example, Detect Thoughts is a 2nd level spell for wizards in the CRB, but a 1st level spell for psychics. If a psychic (or a wizard) wants to buy a Wand of Detect Thoughts, does that happen as a level 1 or 2 spell?

From experience I can say that L1 Detect Thoughts to detect enemies through doors and walls is powerful, although not nearly as brutal as the Gloves of Reconnaisance were. But so far I've only done it as a psychic, not through a cheap wand.

Pages 30-33: We revised the Grand Lodge faction's motto and flavor text, and updated the introductory text for several other factions to remove lingering season 8 references.

I like this a lot. It makes them "pure Pathfinders" instead of feckless slaves to the Decemvirate. And in light of that, did people notice their array of trait options allows people of just about any class to pick up the class skills needed to be a model agent?

Pages 38-39: This new appendix expands the retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign to include the classes that have been published since that book's release, as well as to introduce Pathfinder Society rules for retraining archetypes, prestige classes, and alternate classes.

I'm happy to see progress in this area, but I have a beef nonetheless. The bit about retraining archetype features could be read to be about changing archetypes, but blink and you'll miss it.

Archetype retraining has been a bit of a problem child because the costs are so all over the place. Some archetypes do everything with one ability (5PP retrain) and another spread the message across a dozen abilities, which tends to result in better readable text (60PP). The cost for retraining archetypes is really far too variable between different archetypes.

Idea for an alternative: base the cost on the number of levels since the first time the archetype first diverged from the base class, rather than on the amount of class features.

One additional and possibly dumb question: what faction should the Concordance play as in earlier scenarios?

I don't think this has even been addressed yet, and it's kind of important: the Secondary Success Conditions doc calls out two scenarios, including part of Eyes of the Ten, as being "exceptions to the rule that faction missions are for flavor only", limiting Concordance players to only one prestige in one, and limiting their ability to earn full rewards out of the other.

The Eyes of the Ten example is .. complicated.

I agree the other scenario needs a faction mission for each PC. I think I'd spend some time with the scenario to decide which substitution would be most appropriate for the Concordance.

I saw it was asked above, but it does need an answer.

My downloads list the date last updated as Aug 2017. Did the update tag not take?

I checked the download and it lists it as version 9.1. Is this correct?

Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:

Page 21: This page has updated rules for which class is assumed to have crafted potions, wands, and scrolls, to determine spell level and caster level. Nothing changes if you'd already had an item crafted by a wizard, druid, or cleric, but these rules determine, say, what to do if a spell is only on the bard and bloodrager lists.

This is an interesting change. There's a slight bit of ambiguity in the text though: if a spell does appear on the wizard/cleric/druid/psychic list, should we also only look in the first book where it's published to determine its level?

For example, Detect Thoughts is a 2nd level spell for wizards in the CRB, but a 1st level spell for psychics. If a psychic (or a wizard) wants to buy a Wand of Detect Thoughts, does that happen as a level 1 or 2 spell?

Psychics were first-choice crafters in Guide 9.0. As of 9.1, they've been bumped three rungs down on the ladder. So if it's on the Wizard list, you can't use the Psychic's crafting cost anymore.

Beyond that, it still uses text that constructs the consumable at the minimum spell level in that "bracket." So Cleric3 / Wizard2 is still priced as a 2nd-level spell.

A little gnome tugs on John Compton’s pants leg. “Um, hello. My name is Cup. I would like to transfer over to the Concordance. How do I submit my paperwork please?”

Concordance is not selectable as a radio button on the site curently.

Then she looks meaningfully over at Zarta Dralneen’s office. “Can you please let me know if I am leaving Dark Archive with her blessing, or do I need to return all Dark Archive boons and these nifty faction checkboxes to Zarta before going to the Concordance Informational Meeting?”

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:

Page 21: This page has updated rules for which class is assumed to have crafted potions, wands, and scrolls, to determine spell level and caster level. Nothing changes if you'd already had an item crafted by a wizard, druid, or cleric, but these rules determine, say, what to do if a spell is only on the bard and bloodrager lists.

This is an interesting change. There's a slight bit of ambiguity in the text though: if a spell does appear on the wizard/cleric/druid/psychic list, should we also only look in the first book where it's published to determine its level?

For example, Detect Thoughts is a 2nd level spell for wizards in the CRB, but a 1st level spell for psychics. If a psychic (or a wizard) wants to buy a Wand of Detect Thoughts, does that happen as a level 1 or 2 spell?

Psychics were first-choice crafters in Guide 9.0. As of 9.1, they've been bumped three rungs down on the ladder. So if it's on the Wizard list, you can't use the Psychic's crafting cost anymore.

Beyond that, it still uses text that constructs the consumable at the minimum spell level in that "bracket." So Cleric3 / Wizard2 is still priced as a 2nd-level spell.

Ah, right. I'd missed that psychics actually got bumped down the ladder that much. Wow, that's a bit of an upheaval.