Since the initial blog, I've read through all the posts and emails I received on the subject of convention support. It was not apparent before, but has become so, that there are more conventions in retail spaces than I first anticipated when drafting policy. It is also evident that classifying these retail locations as game days is generating quite a bit of dismay and confusion, as is our use of the Game Day terminology.

I appreciate those people that took the time to post/email and advise me of their positions and how the policy would affect their events. At this time, the Pathfinder Society Team and the Venture-Officers are working to formulate a policy that better meet our goals and the needs of our community. I ask that you give us a bit of time to make adjustments, then we will post the revisions here.

Thank you!

-Tonya

Thank you

I've been reading this thread with somewhat mounting amazement and dismay. What I took at first to be a bona fide attempt to fix a wrinkle with required Con sizes and boon eligibility turned into ... something else...

The thing that bothers me though is the use of the term "Game Day". I'm just not sure what it means? Over here (Netherlands) we don't really use that term. I couldn't immediately find a clear definition, but the discussion sounded like there was such a thing. Is there an officially defined format specifying what a Game Day is, or is it basically local vocabulary?

I've been reading this thread with somewhat mounting amazement and dismay. What I took at first to be a bona fide attempt to fix a wrinkle with required Con sizes and boon eligibility turned into ... something else...

The thing that bothers me though is the use of the term "Game Day". I'm just not sure what it means? Over here (Netherlands) we don't really use that term. I couldn't immediately find a clear definition, but the discussion sounded like there was such a thing. Is there an officially defined format specifying what a Game Day is, or is it basically local vocabulary?

Read Tonya's last post, wherein she said:

"It is also evident that classifying these retail locations as game days is generating quite a bit of dismay and confusion, as is our use of the Game Day terminology."

So, I suspect that language is going to be looked at.

Game Day is local terminology.

Here is how I used the terminology.

Convention: A multiple day event at a public location that runs many tables of events of many kinds. Usually, but not exclusively, at a hotel or convention center.

Game Day: Multiple slot event at a public location. There may be several games or game systems running or it may be focused on a particular type of game (such as a PFS game day where only PFS events are offered). Usually held over a single day, but maybe over a weekend or holiday.

I did not consider single-slot events such as a weekly PFS game to be a game day even if it has multiple tables and is held at a public location like a game store. To me, it has to have multiple slots to be considered a game day.

Thank you, Tonya!!!

I knew you wouldn't leave us in the lurch. :)

I am also exceedingly grateful that you will be looking at the terminology. A slight change in language will do wonders.

Hmm

Here is how I used the terminology.

Convention: A multiple day event at a public location that runs many tables of events of many kinds. Usually, but not exclusively, at a hotel or convention center.

Game Day: Multiple slot event at a public location. There may be several games or game systems running or it may be focused on a particular type of game (such as a PFS game day where only PFS events are offered). Usually held over a single day, but maybe over a weekend or holiday.

I did not consider single-slot events such as a weekly PFS game to be a game day even if it has multiple tables and is held at a public location like a game store. To me, it has to have multiple slots to be considered a game day.

What about when your weekly PFS game at a game store regularly has multiple slots each time?

Michael Hallet wrote:

Here is how I used the terminology.

Convention: A multiple day event at a public location that runs many tables of events of many kinds. Usually, but not exclusively, at a hotel or convention center.

Game Day: Multiple slot event at a public location. There may be several games or game systems running or it may be focused on a particular type of game (such as a PFS game day where only PFS events are offered). Usually held over a single day, but maybe over a weekend or holiday.

I did not consider single-slot events such as a weekly PFS game to be a game day even if it has multiple tables and is held at a public location like a game store. To me, it has to have multiple slots to be considered a game day.

What about when your weekly PFS game at a game store regularly has multiple slots each time?

Then I think your store would qualify for the RVC Quarterly Recognition. Hit 'em up!

Then I think your store would qualify for the RVC Quarterly Recognition. Hit 'em up!

I believe he means he's left the most common form of play out of the dictionary.

There was much confusion over the term gameday, as different areas use it to mean different things. To some it meant a multi-slot special event outside the normal schedule. To others it meant the weekly PFS event.

Around here it means LSU home football game, so good luck getting anywhere in the city today. :-)

And here game-day refers to the regular PFS event

What about when your weekly PFS game at a game store regularly has multiple slots each time?

Maybe that happens a lot in your region, but looking at the Warhorn schedule for the Boston Lodge, that seems like a rarity here.

Many weekly games happen on a weeknight which precludes multiple slots.
Even the games that happens on the weekend are usually single slot events.

The closest I could see to something considered a game day is the occasional event where a table or two of PFS RPG goes off early in the afternoon followed by a table or two of the card game in the evening.

It may have to do with the fact that we have 7 locations to play in the Metro Boston area, plus another 7 in outlying locations. So rather than having larger events where there are multiple tables/multiple slots. People tend to stick to their most convenient locations, spreading the player base out rather than concentrating it, thus not having much of a need for full fledged game days.

Thank you, Tonya

It may have to do with the fact that we have 7 locations to play in the Metro Boston area, plus another 7 in outlying locations. So rather than having larger events where there are multiple tables/multiple slots. People tend to stick to their most convenient locations, spreading the player base out rather than concentrating it, thus not having much of a need for full fledged game days.

So what do you call a regularly recurring 1 slot game?

Michael Hallet wrote:

It may have to do with the fact that we have 7 locations to play in the Metro Boston area, plus another 7 in outlying locations. So rather than having larger events where there are multiple tables/multiple slots. People tend to stick to their most convenient locations, spreading the player base out rather than concentrating it, thus not having much of a need for full fledged game days.

So what do you call a regularly recurring 1 slot game?

A regularly recurring game or event.

IMO, a game day has to have multiple slots. I should be able to spend most of a day participating in a game day. One 4-5 hour slot is not most of a day. 8-10 hours would be.

A regularly recurring game or event.

.

Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

I think too much is being placed on the terminology. It is clear the word "gameday" has different meanings to different people. I would bet there are even some differences in what one would call a "convention" as well. In the end, no matter what terms are used to describe the program and what names we use to define the different aspects of the program, what matters are the rewards.

Most who have posted have been fairly clear about what they would like to see the rewards program look like. And there has been just as much, if not more, banter among the VO corp regarding the details released in the Blog. IMO it doesn't matter what we name each part of the program, I'm still going to refer publicly to the events as I always have. If one of our local conventions is call a "gameday" for purposes of the program, we are still going to advertise it as a convention, nonetheless.

Thankfully, Tonya has heeded our feedback and is reconsidering the structure of the program. That is certainly promising and I still have every confidence that whatever she decides will result in a fair, rewarding program. It might not be exactly what *you* want, but I'm sure it will do what it intends to do...get more prizes in the hands of the community.

Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

No one actually uses that in conversation. It would just be simplified to game or event. But again, the way I see it, is that a game day should be a day full of games, not just one game.

Arizona would have no gamedays then, since we have one remaining event that lasts more than one slot. And I only keep that at two due to tradition.

Petition:

Please title PFS blogs with the content it addresses.

While I appreciate the flavor of Golarian-based calendar dates, "OPC Log—11 Gozren 4716" does nothing to communicate the contents of the blog or why I should read it. Nor is it user friendly if I want to skim the titles to find the blog about the Game Day changes.

Arizona would have no gamedays then, since we have one remaining event that lasts more than one slot. And I only keep that at two due to tradition.

Omaha wouldn't have any, either. But I'd likely rework the schedule to do so if it benefited the community.

"CORE games at noon, standard at 6PM" makes it a game day? While running those same games concurrently wouldn't...?

I'm reserving judgment for when an actual decision is made, personally. Everything's still conjecture and bluster.

Michael Hallet wrote:

It may have to do with the fact that we have 7 locations to play in the Metro Boston area, plus another 7 in outlying locations. So rather than having larger events where there are multiple tables/multiple slots. People tend to stick to their most convenient locations, spreading the player base out rather than concentrating it, thus not having much of a need for full fledged game days.

So what do you call a regularly recurring 1 slot game?

Thursday.

Petition:

Please title PFS blogs with the content it addresses.

While I appreciate the flavor of Golarian-based calendar dates, "OPC Log—11 Gozren 4716" does nothing to communicate the contents of the blog or why I should read it. Nor is it user friendly if I want to skim the titles to find the blog about the Game Day changes.

I didn't read it until someone else mentioned the content.

"CORE games at noon, standard at 6PM" makes it a game day? While running those same games concurrently wouldn't...?

In my opinion that is correct, because in the first case, I could choose to play in both sessions if there was space at a table. In the second, I cannot.

Petition:

Please title PFS blogs with the content it addresses.

While I appreciate the flavor of Golarian-based calendar dates, "OPC Log—11 Gozren 4716" does nothing to communicate the contents of the blog or why I should read it. Nor is it user friendly if I want to skim the titles to find the blog about the Game Day changes.

I think the problem is that the blog addresses a *lot* of different things.

So this blogs title would be:

Emerald City Comicon, New Game day program, Upcoming Game days, Pathfinder ACG accessory contest voting.

Really, this is were a better use of tags might be more helpful than descriptive titles.

I did not consider single-slot events such as a weekly PFS game to be a game day even if it has multiple tables and is held at a public location like a game store. To me, it has to have multiple slots to be considered a game day.

Whereas i have *only* ever heard this referred to as a game day.

So I suspect significant regional variation.

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

Arizona would have no gamedays then, since we have one remaining event that lasts more than one slot. And I only keep that at two due to tradition.

Omaha wouldn't have any, either. But I'd likely rework the schedule to do so if it benefited the community.

"CORE games at noon, standard at 6PM" makes it a game day? While running those same games concurrently wouldn't...?

I'm reserving judgment for when an actual decision is made, personally. Everything's still conjecture and bluster.

Hmmm. I wonder how this ties in with PACG organized play. Our regularly scheduled game day is actually PACG at noon, PFRPG at 2pm.

Thanks Tonya!

As for terminology. I call my Saturday PFS Game Days. They are one slot from 6:30-whenwefinish usually 4 tables.

Conventions are multi-slot events whether they are 1 or more days.

This is not a game day. This is a convention. Compare that to this and tell me if you can tell the difference.

I'm happy to be drunk playing pathfinder in both of these pictures. I stand with all the Minnesotans posting in this thread--I love the community up here.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

No one actually uses that in conversation. It would just be simplified to game or event. But again, the way I see it, is that a game day should be a day full of games, not just one game.

Michael, your definition would leave my area completely out of it. Totally.

At the store I coordinate for, we are lucky if we get a table 2-3 Saturdays a month, much less every Saturday or multiple slots.

The last local Game Day, an event apparently legally titled as the Las Vegas Game Day, which only had two slots, was something like 3 years ago, now. The owners never really did anything on it, and the person who was actually coordinating it for the last couple of years it ran had to give up coordination due to a mixture of burnout, lost venue, and (IIRC) his wife having another child.

So, right now, we might have PFS as a single slot at a couple of local stores, when we can get enough players. And the local store is not hosting a big event that uses up most of their tables, whether that is a Magic pre-release, or the upcoming Board Game day at the end of the month.

We moved our Saturday start time earlier, because one of our regulars works nights, so we start at 1 pm instead of 4 pm. At the end of the game, since he has to leave to get to work, we wouldn't have enough players available to run another legal table. This past Saturday, I ran Level 7 of Emerald Spire, continuing the sequence I was asked to run, and we had 4 players at the table.

I am worried about what happens when we reach the levels that no longer allow PFS pregens, and someone wants to play, since it is a public game. I am also worried for when I run out of vacation days to take, as I normally work Saturday evenings, but my shift starts at 3:30 pm, and the store opens at noon, so even moving things earlier again won't help in that case. AT least for my once-a-month public game requirement as a VA.

For local conventions, the last true Gaming Convention in the area closed its doors even before the local Game Day got cancelled. Our local VCs have tried getting PFS into other local conventions, but it hasn't been a good fit, and difficult to get tables to go off. Combat Con, for instance, is mainly a martial arts focused convention. Las Vegas Comic Con is comics focused, and have had to move venues. GAMA is not a public convention. ConQuest Vegas happened maybe twice, back in LG days, but didn't manage to really get going. Galaxy Con seems to still be in the initial planning stages, if that.

So, by your definitions, we have no Game Days. So we would never qualify for anything to help encourage our local GMs, other than those of us who participate in online conventions (if they still get to be called that) donating any GM boons we earned to try and encourage our local people to step up.