Ultimate Intrigue—Vigilante Playtest!

Also the kineticist has the option to switch to a blast the does non elemental damange and targets normal AC when confronted with resistant/immune foes. Warlock does not.

Only if he spends a talent to open up such an ability. The warlock can also spend a talent to open up to a new element. Pick elements like Fire and Cold and you're usually pretty good on the damage front as most creatures immune or resistant to one, are not immune or resistant to the other (at least until the teens).

Vigilante Warlock strikes me as a semi-decent class up until level 10 or so, when it starts sucking hard because resistances and immunities start really coming out in force, making the Warlock switch over to bad!caster instead and being left in the dust when it comes to contributing to fights.

The rogue class is by far my favorite class to play. I got to experience the vigilante stalker in World Wound. I was able to to get him up to level 8 and he was awesome. I know everyone plays and builds their characters differently. But this class was exactly the type of rogue I've been looking to build for a long time.

The rogue class is by far my favorite class to play. I got to experience the vigilante stalker in World Wound. I was able to to get him up to level 8 and he was awesome. I know everyone plays and builds their characters differently. But this class was exactly the type of rogue I've been looking to build for a long time.

Awesome! Can you tell us how you built him and what he did? What made him so fun?

The Warlock has the option to switch to a bow too. Point?

The effectiveness of that is debatable.. They have no special extra to hit features like most other things. They'd basically be hitting like the old rogue does with a bow.

These days most things end up with a bonus to hit in some form, warlock doesn't have any that I can think of.
Not that it's impossible but it sure is going to suck missing a lot since the AC for most games will be set with regards to other class's to hit ratios.

Rynjin wrote:

The Warlock has the option to switch to a bow too. Point?

The effectiveness of that is debatable.. They have no special extra to hit features like most other things. They'd basically be hitting like the old rogue does with a bow.

the Kin still had that boost to hit via burn, and enough damage in that one shot to usually be fine.
Warlock with the bow is going to have a hard time hitting, The onlyboosts I can think of off hand are enhancment, and magic weapon (which don't stack last I knew).

These days most things end up with a bonus to hit in some form, warlock doesn't have any that I can think of.
Not that it's impossible but it sure is going to suck missing a lot since the AC for most games will be set with regards to other class's to hit ratios.

To be fair, they do get a single, if useful, boost--the arcane striker talent, which does replicate a feat but doesn't take up a feat slot. It'd be nice if there was more to the class than that, of course.

Zwordsman wrote:

Rynjin wrote:

The Warlock has the option to switch to a bow too. Point?

The effectiveness of that is debatable.. They have no special extra to hit features like most other things. They'd basically be hitting like the old rogue does with a bow.

the Kin still had that boost to hit via burn, and enough damage in that one shot to usually be fine.
Warlock with the bow is going to have a hard time hitting, The onlyboosts I can think of off hand are enhancment, and magic weapon (which don't stack last I knew).

These days most things end up with a bonus to hit in some form, warlock doesn't have any that I can think of.
Not that it's impossible but it sure is going to suck missing a lot since the AC for most games will be set with regards to other class's to hit ratios.

To be fair, they do get a single, if useful, boost--the arcane striker talent, which does replicate a feat but doesn't take up a feat slot. It'd be nice if there was more to the class than that, of course.

Oh I was mostly talking about accuracy boosters rather than damage. Arcane Striker doesn't help hitting .. unless i missed some detail of it

Touch helps with hitting, and 3/4 BAB isn't bad. The damage is the issue, not the hitting.

You probably haven't seen the ninja iconic because s/he's a ninja. ;-)

Look out your window. See that "empty" street? Ninja parade.
Look under your bed for monsters. See "nothing" there? Ninja monsters.
Look over your shoulder. "Nobody" there? Ninja. Watching. Waiting.

Reminds me of an old 1e/2E joke.

Elves can gain unlimited levels as thieves. So, where are all the super-level elf thieves? Everywhere, you just can't see them!

Pardon me for not reading through all 12 pages of this, I'll accept curt replies and even go back and read if it's in there, but I'm trying to determine if the Vigilante is a template to put on any class (I could make a Vigilante Hunter?) or if it's a class with 4 sub-classes built in. I'm really not interested in this class or book if this ONLY works in games where you have a need for a vigilante in a city setting. Specifically, I'd love to play the Warlock but don't want to have dismantle the Vigilante to play it without that superfluous (and pointless IMO) fluff.

No it's not a template.

Pardon me for not reading through all 12 pages of this, I'll accept curt replies and even go back and read if it's in there, but I'm trying to determine if the Vigilante is a template to put on any class (I could make a Vigilante Hunter?) or if it's a class with 4 sub-classes built in.

Neither.

Vigilante will be a class with access to things like the talents possessed by Avenger and Stalker rather than being all over the place conceptually. Zealot and Warlock will be archetypes.

Pardon me for not reading through all 12 pages of this, I'll accept curt replies and even go back and read if it's in there, but I'm trying to determine if the Vigilante is a template to put on any class (I could make a Vigilante Hunter?) or if it's a class with 4 sub-classes built in. I'm really not interested in this class or book if this ONLY works in games where you have a need for a vigilante in a city setting. Specifically, I'd love to play the Warlock but don't want to have dismantle the Vigilante to play it without that superfluous (and pointless IMO) fluff.

The Vigilante is a class. However, my understanding of this playtest is that they changed the way the class functions. Instead of one class with four sub-classes within, fighter, rogue, arcane caster, divine caster, it is now only two classes, fighter and rogue. What they have done, is moved the arcane and divine portion into the archetype system. Now, whether that is one archetype that chooses between arcane or divine, or two different archetypes, I have no idea.

Jody Gates wrote:

Pardon me for not reading through all 12 pages of this, I'll accept curt replies and even go back and read if it's in there, but I'm trying to determine if the Vigilante is a template to put on any class (I could make a Vigilante Hunter?) or if it's a class with 4 sub-classes built in. I'm really not interested in this class or book if this ONLY works in games where you have a need for a vigilante in a city setting. Specifically, I'd love to play the Warlock but don't want to have dismantle the Vigilante to play it without that superfluous (and pointless IMO) fluff.

The Vigilante is a class. However, my understanding of this playtest is that they changed the way the class functions. Instead of one class with four sub-classes within, fighter, rogue, arcane caster, divine caster, it is now only two classes, fighter and rogue. What they have done, is moved the arcane and divine portion into the archetype system. Now, whether that is one archetype that chooses between arcane or divine, or two different archetypes, I have no idea.

Even furthermore, a lot of the talents are available to everybody, so the divergence between avenger and stalker is less extreme than if you imagined just taking them both from the playtest.

Even furthermore, a lot of the talents are available to everybody, so the divergence between avenger and stalker is less extreme than if you imagined just taking them both from the playtest.

Thanks for the clarification.

Question, any word on whether non-location tied Vigilantes will be easier than they were in the playtest or will that remain underwraps until the book goes to sale and people start to vivisect it?

Jody Gates wrote:

Pardon me for not reading through all 12 pages of this, I'll accept curt replies and even go back and read if it's in there, but I'm trying to determine if the Vigilante is a template to put on any class (I could make a Vigilante Hunter?) or if it's a class with 4 sub-classes built in.

Neither.

Vigilante will be a class with access to things like the talents possessed by Avenger and Stalker rather than being all over the place conceptually. Zealot and Warlock will be archetypes.

Huh. Was there a mini-reveal about this somewhere? I must have missed it!

Huh. Was there a mini-reveal about this somewhere? I must have missed it!

iirc, it was mentioned by Jason at Dragoncon or something like that.

Yeah. Mark also mentioned it here.

Wait... Why hasn't this thread been closed yet?

I thought the playtest was over.

Wait... Why hasn't this thread been closed yet?

I thought the playtest was over.

I presume because it is primarily a thread for responses to a blog post, even if that blog post is related to the playtest.

I still can't find the link to download it!

I still can't find the link to download it!

The playtest? You likely won't. It ended last year. The official version comes out soonish.

Comes out this march.

I keep trying to force march, but it isn't getting here any faster. I think we have to wait a little while longer.