Ultimate Intrigue—Vigilante Playtest!

That's not how that works. Making an exception for Mystic Bolts in the case of one feat is not the same as saying that Mystic Bolts counts as a weapon for other effects. It's making a specific exception to the normal rule, not establishing a new rule: saying "You can use Weapon Focus with Mystic Bolts, even though it's not a weapon.", not "Mystic Bolts is a weapon."

I was attempting to clarify the meaning. Either way, though, it still doesnt' mean that Mystic Bolts is actually a weapon. Just because it's listed as behaving in some ways as a weapon does not mean that it actually counts as a weapon for all effects.

Until language is added that very specifically says it counts as a weapon, it does not count as a weapon.

Also it has a range of 30 ft. and it's still a touch attack beyond the first increment and doesn't have reloading/misfire issues.

Mystic Bolts doesn't have a range increment, it has a range. There is a big difference between the two: a range of 30ft. means that that's it maximum range. A range increment of 30ft. means that it can fire at multiple range increments (up to x10 for projectile weapons and x5 for thrown weapons). Since Mystic Bolts isn't a weapon, and has a range instead of a range increment, it has a maximum range of 30ft.

Dylos wrote:

So, I was thinking about this and another question comes to mind.

Can a vigilante utilize their talents if they become the target of a polymorph effect or assume a mundane disguise while assuming their vigilante identity?

Based on the wording you assume an identity at the start of each day, although it doesn't necessarily say you need to rest. Changing identities during the day certainly seems to require some extra gear--a clothing change, some makeup, etc.--so it's unclear whether you need any of that for setting your initial identity when you wake up.

I think you misunderstand my question.

Let's say that we have a Kitsune vigilante whose vigilante identity is referred to as The Fox. Now, The Fox has the realistic likeness feat and decides they want to look like Kyra, are they still able to utilize their vigilante talents even though they are introducing themselves as a person that is neither of their identities.

I like the idea of modular spellcasting, but maybe have one at 4th level for 2nd and 3rd level spells, 10th for 4th and 5th level spells, and 16 for 6th level spells.

Also, I'm not too concerned with modular spellcasting interacting with prestige classes. Paizo doesn't really publish prestige classes anymore, and if someone does want to be part of a spellcasting prestige class, there are dozens of other spellcasting base classes to start with. :-)

A warlock would probably be interesting to play in a setting where arcane casting is feared.

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Part of me wonders if this is going to be a genderfluid iconic.

I mean, I figure it's unlikely, since it'd be a bit gimmicky, but it would be kinda interesting to see.

There's already a genderfluid iconic, the ninja.

Uhh...I totally knew that. No reason we can't have two!

All these iconics are hard to keep track of. There's a ninja iconic? ;P

If a Zealot worships a deity, I'm supposing that it has to be a deity suited for both his secret and social identity, am I right? So a NG Zealot worshiping Milani couldn't be LG in his social identity.

There's already a genderfluid iconic, the ninja.

Is she? How so?

Milo v3 wrote:

There's already a genderfluid iconic, the ninja.

Is she? How so?

Liz said he/she is genderfluid, but it's not a main pivotal aspect of the characters backstory so it isn't mentioned in Reiko's backstory.

Reiko even has "Fluid/asexual" listed for her gender on the Pathfinder Wiki.

Milo v3 wrote:

There's already a genderfluid iconic, the ninja.

Is she? How so?

I think he means the Iconic Shaman.

Zaister wrote:

Milo v3 wrote:

There's already a genderfluid iconic, the ninja.

Is she? How so?

I think he means the Iconic Shaman.

The iconic shaman is transgender, completely different.

Tels wrote:

Zaister wrote:

Milo v3 wrote:

There's already a genderfluid iconic, the ninja.

Is she? How so?

I think he means the Iconic Shaman.

The iconic shaman is transgender, completely different.

I've never heard of anything related to Reiko being genderfluid, so I assumed you just misused the term. I apologize. Care to explain why you claim Reiko is genderfluid?

Milo v3 wrote:

Tels wrote:

Zaister wrote:

Milo v3 wrote:

There's already a genderfluid iconic, the ninja.

Is she? How so?

I think he means the Iconic Shaman.

The iconic shaman is transgender, completely different.

I've never heard of anything related to Reiko being genderfluid, so I assumed you just misused the term. I apologize. Care to explain why you claim Reiko is genderfluid?

Link to Quote

and the other quote, from Reiko themselves

Okay, my brother is planning on doing a 15th level playtest of the vigilante, does that count for the shadow body leak?

Milo v3 wrote:

There's already a genderfluid iconic, the ninja.

Is she? How so?

From the description, the ninja iconic seems female. Female pronouns all the way through, and the last paragraph begins with "Today, Reiko is a grown woman."

I was initially pretty meh about the class, but after reading it over again there are things I like but despite all the arguments in favor it, I still just can't get behind the dual identity thing.

Being up because of insomnia (and delirious from lack of sleep) it occurred to me that the four specializations would make interesting standalone classes if someone didn't like the Vigilante class as it is.

Zaister wrote:

Milo v3 wrote:

There's already a genderfluid iconic, the ninja.

Is she? How so?

From the description, the ninja iconic seems female. Female pronouns all the way through, and the last paragraph begins with "Today, Reiko is a grown woman."

That's probably just because it's easier to describe her using her biological gender, than her gender identity, since with genderfluid you kind of have to play the pronoun game. Is it he, she, s/he, it, they or newer words that haven't made their way into common usage like hir, zhe, zir, zhim, hu, or hum. If Liz had used one of those pronouns would you have had any idea what she was talking about? Cause I don't think I would, despite the fact that I'm aware there are gender neutral pronouns popping into the English language.

If memory serves, Liz has mentioned that a lot of the details of the character have dropped from the background as it's not as important/interesting as the story of loss and seeking revenge that makes up most of the character blurb. But I believe she's also mentioned that Reiko was always genderfluid (or meant to be), but that she's also non-sexual/asexual, so it very rarely matters. What does is getting revenge on her family's killer.

Although I entirely see your point of not being able to tell.

Startling Appearance

[...] Whenever a vigilante with this ability makes an attack against a foe that is completely unaware of the vigilante’s presence (usually due to Stealth or invisibility), the foe is treated as flatfooted for the rest of the vigilante’s turn (uncanny dodge or a similar ability prevents this effect unless the vigilante is at least 4 levels higher than the foe with uncanny dodge)[...]

This is not how uncanny dodge works. Uncanny dodge ALWAYS prevents being flat-footed. The 4 relative levels thing only applies to being flanked vs. improved uncanny dodge. Now, I'd like uncanny dodge to work like this, but check up any class that has the ability; relative level only applies to improved uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge only applies to being flanked.

Startling Appearance wrote:

Startling Appearance

[...] Whenever a vigilante with this ability makes an attack against a foe that is completely unaware of the vigilante’s presence (usually due to Stealth or invisibility), the foe is treated as flatfooted for the rest of the vigilante’s turn (uncanny dodge or a similar ability prevents this effect unless the vigilante is at least 4 levels higher than the foe with uncanny dodge)[...]

This is not how uncanny dodge works. Uncanny dodge ALWAYS prevents being flat-footed. The 4 relative levels thing only applies to being flanked vs. improved uncanny dodge. Now, I'd like uncanny dodge to work like this, but check up any class that has the ability; relative level only applies to improved uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge only applies to being flanked.

I think the idea they're trying to get across is that you gain the ability to ignore even the base ability of Uncanny Dodge if you're a high enough level. They're not trying to remind you how Uncanny Dodge works, they're trying to tell you how this ability can sometimes trump Uncanny Dodge.

They just seem to have worded things poorly.

Starfox wrote:

Startling Appearance wrote:

Startling Appearance

[...] Whenever a vigilante with this ability makes an attack against a foe that is completely unaware of the vigilante’s presence (usually due to Stealth or invisibility), the foe is treated as flatfooted for the rest of the vigilante’s turn (uncanny dodge or a similar ability prevents this effect unless the vigilante is at least 4 levels higher than the foe with uncanny dodge)[...]

This is not how uncanny dodge works. Uncanny dodge ALWAYS prevents being flat-footed. The 4 relative levels thing only applies to being flanked vs. improved uncanny dodge. Now, I'd like uncanny dodge to work like this, but check up any class that has the ability; relative level only applies to improved uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge only applies to being flanked.

I think the idea they're trying to get across is that you gain the ability to ignore even the base ability of Uncanny Dodge if you're a high enough level. They're not trying to remind you how Uncanny Dodge works, they're trying to tell you how this ability can sometimes trump Uncanny Dodge.

Agreed.

I think the idea...

You are probably right, but it should still be pointed out.

Do you think the vigilante would have two different sets of loyalties when your using the non-alignment rules from unchained... Could make paladin gestalts rather interesting.

I played in a game a few years ago where one PC's concept was that he was a mild-mannered herbalist by day, dashing gentleman cat-burglar by night. I don't see any reason he couldn't have played a Vigilante and had some mechanical back-up for his concept rather than just play a rogue with a fluff background.

This is always a problem when an in-game activity is given a rule. Until now, anyone with even a little Disguise could have a secret identity they slipped into to adventure. Heck, all it really takes is a hood. Now, suddenly, there's a class feature, and that class feature will effectively be respired to have a secret identity at some tables.

I call this the splatbook effect, and it was worst in Shadoweun; as soon as a speciality book came out for a role, that role became so costly that you could no longer dip in it... In some cases it became so costly it was no longer playable. But this is a bit off-topic here.

So far I don't like how you keep having to waste talents to increase your casting ability. Arcane and Divine Training should just be part of those Specializations class abilities. It feels like they are being forced to use their talents on those things while the other Specializations can pick more freely from their lists.

It seems clear that this mechanic is an intentional talent tax to keep the options balanced against each other. Rather than giving the non-spellcaster versions a lot of extra talents, they put a tax on the spellcaster versions.

My overall feel for the Vigilante is that it is either very elegant or very rudely designed, depending on whether the core idea of having a class that is actually a set of archetypes for other classes gains traction. I have seen a bunch of classes that tried to do this from 3rd party designers, but I never thought Paizo would go down this route. It is a big hurdle for new players to grasp, but perhaps it raises the glass ceiling for designing classes for experienced players.

Paizo have been making classes that are more and more complex, like the bloodrager, inquisitor, and shaman. In a way this evens the playing field, bringing other classes up to the complexity and versatility of the wizard. But these classes are unlikely to see much use at my table; they are to complex to appeal to my players, and definitely too complex for me to enjoy using as villains.

If you could maintain a secret identity before the Vigilante then you had a very kind GM. Non-magical means of concealing alignment were non-existent until recently (and even the CoC option was restricted to evil characters), and the level of protection against scrying the Vigilante has simply did not exist before now.

This is always a problem when an in-game activity is given a rule. Until now, anyone with even a little Disguise could have a secret identity they slipped into to adventure. Heck, all it really takes is a hood. Now, suddenly, there's a class feature, and that class feature will effectively be respired to have a secret identity at some tables.

I call this the splatbook effect, and it was worst in Shadoweun; as soon as a speciality book came out for a role, that role became so costly that you could no longer dip in it... In some cases it became so costly it was no longer playable. But this is a bit off-topic here.

With how much overlap their is in pathfinder, I don't think that is an issue anymore. Other characters can have secret identities; a master chymist, some bards, or a kitsune would probably be rather skilled in it, but they wont have the specific benefits of having a secret identity in this manner.

Hmm... this new class has a lot of potential. I usually throw character levels on a baddie just for fluff so he can stand up to the party. I think I'll have to do better for this; at least a minor story-arc, possibly even a plot.

I may have given too negative an impression of my opinion on dual identity above. Its nice that its getting some distinct advantages besides merely being a disguise. What I'm worried about isn't really about the vigilante ability, but about how this will change play for other classes using a mere disguise.

As for disguise being sufficient to maintaining a secret identity, I'd say it is sufficient in normal play. Yes, a recurring villain might be able to penetrate the PCs disguise, but recurring villains are not a large part of Pathfinder adventures. Notice how most adventures are written so that each villain is only encountered once - in case the players should happen to kill what was intended to be a recurring villain on the first encounter.

But this is a book about intrigue, where recurring villains are a staple, so I can see a need for more robust mechanics here.

Hmm... do you think a guy who is a demon in his "vigilante" would be more a vigilante//sorcerer hybrid class or a vigilante//summoner hybrid class?

Milo v3 wrote:

A warlock would probably be interesting to play in a setting where arcane casting is feared.

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Part of me wonders if this is going to be a genderfluid iconic.

I mean, I figure it's unlikely, since it'd be a bit gimmicky, but it would be kinda interesting to see.

There's already a genderfluid iconic, the ninja.

Uhh...I totally knew that. No reason we can't have two!

All these iconics are hard to keep track of. There's a ninja iconic? ;P

You probably haven't seen the ninja iconic because s/he's a ninja. ;-)

Look out your window. See that "empty" street? Ninja parade.
Look under your bed for monsters. See "nothing" there? Ninja monsters.
Look over your shoulder. "Nobody" there? Ninja. Watching. Waiting.

Hey there all,

As a note, we fully understand that there are a lot of classes in the game and that you can emulate nearly any concept with the existing options available to you. That said, the Vigilante is actually quite unique in a number of ways and we are interested to see how it plays at the table. The vigilante can certainly emulate a given role in a party, but it has some other unique ways of adding to the group as well. Some of those are already present, others will rely on other systems set to appear in Ultimate Intrigue (if your group decides to add them to the game).

That said, give it a try and let us know. We look forward to seeing your feedback.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

I'm going to try to see if I can get an All-Vigilante table in that run.

Okay, my brother is planning on doing a 15th level playtest of the vigilante, does that count for the shadow body leak?

If it's with warlock and shadow body, and if he promises to run it, rather than it just being a possible plan, then it does count indeed. Let me know, though of course, it being the weekend, I'm not at the office, so I may or may not see until Monday.

My only concern is the warlock specialization. Will it eclipse the magus class because it has a more powerful spell list?

My only concern is the warlock specialization. Will it eclipse the magus class because it has a more powerful spell list?

Pretty sure not even a little.

My only concern is the warlock specialization. Will it eclipse the magus class because it has a more powerful spell list?

Not at all, because the warlock vigilante has much, much less spells per day. He starts with one more spell per day over the magus, the magus catchs up at level 2, the magus is one spell ahead at 3rd level, the vigilante catches up at level 4 and then the magus is ahead at every level after.

My only concern is the warlock specialization. Will it eclipse the magus class because it has a more powerful spell list?

No.

The broader list makes a big difference, but the Magus has always had to deal with competitors with a broader list. Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK X, even with the two lost caster levels, has a broader spell list than the Magus.

What lets the Magus compete are its class features, and most specifically Spell Combat.

Yeah...if the warlock vigilante blows half his vigilante talents as soon as he can to advance arcane training, he's still going to only wind up being able to cast four 1st-level spells, three 2nd-level spells, three 3rd-level spells, three 4th-level spells, two 5th-level spells, and one 6th-level spell per day, plus extra castings from a high intelligence. At the same level the warlock vigilante unlocks this (16th, not that it ever improves), the magus can prepare and cast five 1st-level spells, five 2nd-level spells, five 3rd-level spells, four 4th-level spells, three 5th-level spells, and one 6th-level spell, plus extra slots from a high Intelligence. At 20th level, the magus can prepare five of all spells they can cast, or 5/5/5/5/5/5, while the warlock vigilante is still stuck at 4/3/3/3/2/1. It's true that the warlock vigilante will be able to prepare more spells than they can cast, thanks to their arcanist-like method of spellcasting, which gives them some degree of versatility, but this just means the warlock vigilante will be more likely to have utility spells and battlefield control spells where a single spell can provide advantages for awhile. Note, the warlock has given up half his vigilante talents to get this casting as well, while the magus still has all of his many class features and magus arcana.

I am totally looking forward to converting my Dark Knight character into this class! I'll be sure to post it in this thread and in my Crazy Character Emporium once it's ready. I wonder how it's going to turn out; will it be better or worse than what I have now?

Can't wait to find out.

AS PROMISED!

What do you think? How does he compare to his non-vigilante counterpart?

Ravingdork wrote:

I am totally looking forward to converting my Dark Knight character into this class! I'll be sure to post it in this thread and in my Crazy Character Emporium once it's ready. I wonder how it's going to turn out; will it be better or worse than what I have now?

Can't wait to find out.

AS PROMISED!

Caybun Weer, aka the Dark Knight, has been statted out using the new Vigilante class from the Ultimate Intrigue playtest.

What do you think? How does he compare to his non-vigilante counterpart?

Looks fun! I think the vigilante version is missing his luck bonus to AC. Given an unarmed character with light armor, I'm a little surprised you didn't go brawling armor enhancement on the armor for another +2 on attack and damage rolls. Does your group also ban it?

I don't normally think about the brawling property since the characters it would most help...can't wear armor.

I'll see if I can find a way to squeeze it in the character's budget.

At a glance, he does look like he would be fun to play, but I fear he isn't really much better than a core rogue. He looks a little underpowered to me. I also find it SO wrong that Intimidate isn't a class skill for a Stalker.

EDIT: Changed it from a +2 shadow mithral shirt to a +1 brawling mithral shirt and used the +1 luck bonus from the "jingasa" to offset it.

I don't normally think about the brawling property since the characters it would most help...can't wear armor.

I'll see if I can find a way to squeeze it in the character's budget.

At a glance, he does look like he would be fun to play, but I fear he isn't really much better than a core rogue. He looks a little underpowered to me. I also find it SO wrong that Intimidate isn't a class skill for a Stalker.

EDIT: Changed it from a +2 shadow mithral shirt to a +1 brawling mithral shirt and used the +1 luck bonus from the "jingasa" to offset it.

Yeah, I think we may be due for a few more class skills in the main vigilante myself too, like Intimidate.

As to the comparison; if we look at simple accuracy and damage offense, compared to the original, we're looking at enough of an accuracy boost (+4) to compensate for both accuracy judgment and bane being active, and the original is limited in both of those. The original does slightly more damage with bane for those 5 rounds if the vigilante fails to get hidden strike, but even the d4s are more than enough to outpace it by a fair margin (+11 damage for the vigilante with hidden strike over the original with bane, original is up +4 damage for the 5 rounds of bane if vigilante fails to get hidden strike).

Taking a step back from just accuracy and damage, the vigilante also has some nice specials to apply on hit, including the possible instant KO.

They also play somewhat differently round-by-round, in that due to swift actions, the original is only fully up to speed (bane and judgment both active) on round 2, after which he becomes a mighty fighting force, whereas the vigilante has a punchier round 1, with both appearances active (so one foe is automatically denied Dex, gets a -4 to hit him, and might be frightened for a round, and an AoE is intimidated) and a potential knockout. This means that depending on the average length of fights, the vigilante may have more or less of an advantage (though if fights are too long, the original will run out of bane or have to save it at least). When it comes to mimicking Batman, I think the first round advantage is fairly appropriate when showing him fighting against minions or mooks, at the very least, as he swoops out of the darkness and takes them out quickly. The ability to drop a bunch of mooks without alerting nearby encounters (battle being at +28 Stealth even after the -5) is also potentially useful, though they do really have to be mooks (or single guards) to make it work out.

Yeah...if the warlock vigilante blows half his vigilante talents as soon as he can to advance arcane training, he's still going to only wind up being able to cast four 1st-level spells, three 2nd-level spells, three 3rd-level spells, three 4th-level spells, two 5th-level spells, and one 6th-level spell per day, plus extra castings from a high intelligence. At the same level the warlock vigilante unlocks this (16th, not that it ever improves), the magus can prepare and cast five 1st-level spells, five 2nd-level spells, five 3rd-level spells, four 4th-level spells, three 5th-level spells, and one 6th-level spell, plus extra slots from a high Intelligence. At 20th level, the magus can prepare five of all spells they can cast, or 5/5/5/5/5/5, while the warlock vigilante is still stuck at 4/3/3/3/2/1. It's true that the warlock vigilante will be able to prepare more spells than they can cast, thanks to their arcanist-like method of spellcasting, which gives them some degree of versatility, but this just means the warlock vigilante will be more likely to have utility spells and battlefield control spells where a single spell can provide advantages for awhile. Note, the warlock has given up half his vigilante talents to get this casting as well, while the magus still has all of his many class features and magus arcana.

And two of those class features are Spell Recall and Improved Spell Recall. Those increase their spells per day even more. Additionally, Pearls of Power cost half as much as Runestones of Power so the Magus has the advantage there as well.

So I managed to make a "Hulk" build using the Warlock specilization.

Focus your small amount on spells like enlarge person, bears endurance, and bull strength.

Pick up mystic bolt and elemental armor for, acid("gamma radiation") or fire(" you can be red hulk")
Arcane strike( sonic damage for that sonic clap)

A few other things here and there.

So I managed to make a "Hulk" build using the Warlock specilization.

Focus your small amount on spells like enlarge person, bears endurance, and bull strength.

Pick up mystic bolt and elemental armor for, acid("gamma radiation") or fire(" you can be red hulk")
Arcane strike( sonic damage for that sonic clap)

A few othee things here and there.

That could be cool! We have an in-house freelancer working on vigilante archetypes, and I've heard that a more specifically Hulk type archetype is at least on the list of possibilities being considered. Sound interesting?

Arcane Training works ok with the Warlock. There are some pretty solid options that make it a difficult choice between the two.

Divine Training is pretty weak. There just are not any other Zealot Talents really worth taking at the majority of levels, making it just a Class Feature Tax. All in all, the Zealot looks even more mechanically boring than the Cleric, in my opinion.

pixierose wrote:

So I managed to make a "Hulk" build using the Warlock specilization.

Focus your small amount on spells like enlarge person, bears endurance, and bull strength.

Pick up mystic bolt and elemental armor for, acid("gamma radiation") or fire(" you can be red hulk")
Arcane strike( sonic damage for that sonic clap)

A few othee things here and there.

That could be cool! We have an in-house freelancer working on vigilante archetypes, and I've heard that a more specifically Hulk type archetype is at least on the list of possibilities being considered. Sound interesting?

I wonder what they are going to replace to get rage.

pixierose wrote:

So I managed to make a "Hulk" build using the Warlock specilization.

Focus your small amount on spells like enlarge person, bears endurance, and bull strength.

Pick up mystic bolt and elemental armor for, acid("gamma radiation") or fire(" you can be red hulk")
Arcane strike( sonic damage for that sonic clap)

A few othee things here and there.

That could be cool! We have an in-house freelancer working on vigilante archetypes, and I've heard that a more specifically Hulk type archetype is at least on the list of possibilities being considered. Sound interesting?

Oh that would be fantastic! I was nervous about posting my idea here, but now I am glad I did. It would be nifty to see a "hulk archetype"

Mark Seifter wrote:

pixierose wrote:

So I managed to make a "Hulk" build using the Warlock specilization.

Focus your small amount on spells like enlarge person, bears endurance, and bull strength.

Pick up mystic bolt and elemental armor for, acid("gamma radiation") or fire(" you can be red hulk")
Arcane strike( sonic damage for that sonic clap)

A few othee things here and there.

That could be cool! We have an in-house freelancer working on vigilante archetypes, and I've heard that a more specifically Hulk type archetype is at least on the list of possibilities being considered. Sound interesting?

I wonder what they are going to replace to get rage.

No clue. Could wind up using mutagen, master chymist-y stuff, or even something different. If they do go that route, I'm looking forward to seeing it!

Mark Seifter wrote:

pixierose wrote:

So I managed to make a "Hulk" build using the Warlock specilization.

Focus your small amount on spells like enlarge person, bears endurance, and bull strength.

Pick up mystic bolt and elemental armor for, acid("gamma radiation") or fire(" you can be red hulk")
Arcane strike( sonic damage for that sonic clap)

A few othee things here and there.

That could be cool! We have an in-house freelancer working on vigilante archetypes, and I've heard that a more specifically Hulk type archetype is at least on the list of possibilities being considered. Sound interesting?

Oh that would be fantastic! I was nervous about posting my idea here, but now I am glad I did. It would be nifty to see a "hulk archetype"

I know the boards can sometimes be a little intimidating, especially since it's easier for people in critical analysis mode to have their negative lenses on, so I know it would be wrong to say "no need to be nervous," but we on the design team are always grateful when you guys step up and post your ideas!

Believe it or not, a bunch of the coolest specialization ideas came from our awesome panel-buddies at Paizocon who helped brainstorm with us during the Vigilante workshop (I'm sure there's a bunch of them reading this who were totally thinking "Oh man! They used my idea!" when they read the playtest doc), and some of the best posts in playtests are the brainstorms for new ideas.

pixierose wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

pixierose wrote:

So I managed to make a "Hulk" build using the Warlock specilization.

Focus your small amount on spells like enlarge person, bears endurance, and bull strength.

Pick up mystic bolt and elemental armor for, acid("gamma radiation") or fire(" you can be red hulk")
Arcane strike( sonic damage for that sonic clap)

A few othee things here and there.

That could be cool! We have an in-house freelancer working on vigilante archetypes, and I've heard that a more specifically Hulk type archetype is at least on the list of possibilities being considered. Sound interesting?

Oh that would be fantastic! I was nervous about posting my idea here, but now I am glad I did. It would be nifty to see a "hulk archetype"

I know the boards can sometimes be a little intimidating, especially since it's easier for people in critical analysis mode to have their negative lenses on, so I know it would be wrong to say "no need to be nervous," but we on the design team are always grateful when you guys step up and post your ideas!

Believe it or not, a bunch of the coolest specialization ideas came from our awesome panel-buddies at Paizocon who helped brainstorm with us during the Vigilante workshop (I'm sure there's a bunch of them reading this who were totally thinking "Oh man! They used my idea!" when they read the playtest doc), and some of the best posts in playtests are the brainstorms for new ideas.

Edit, thanks for the reassurance! Maybe unlike the standard vigilante, the hulk archetype maybe at first cnat control when they switch? Or there is a "rage pool" and when they rage they gain the secret identiity features?"

Yeah, a "drastic transformation" specialty would be great! Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde, Banner/Hulk, Shazam, werewolf, etc. Take a lot of cues from the Master Chymist.

Maybe a "dreamer" specialty would be cool, too. The social persona is literally asleep when the vigilante persona manifests. Dark Knightmare, if you will. :-P

I am wondering why Mystic Bolts requires level 4. I suppose because it is a bit more reliable at that level, but I think it would benefit the specialization to have that option of an alternate to a weapon earlier on (especially since at level 4, it competes with improving your spells)