Playtest Thoughts, Week 3

Nuuu, only a week remaining! I kind of wish that there was enough time for another round of playtest updates, but we'll have to make due with what we have.

I do have to say though, please make sure you seriously consider some of the latest suggestions in the class discussion for the Bloodrager and Swashbuckler. I really do feel that these classes need some more tweaks in order to truly be in tune with the flavor and play style that they're trying to achieve. The last batch of changes helped a lot, but I don't feel like they're quite there yet.

Anyway, thanks for the increased updates and communication in this playtest!

Yeah, only a week left to go and then 8 months till this book is out.

Question: If changes are made between December 17th and the release of the book, will we be advised of those changes? Or will the book bring its own new surprises for these classes?

I'm hoping and expecting "new surprises" but most will be in archetypes and feats and such with only a few specific additions to the basic classes as presented --- unless the next round of playtests opens new avenues of improvements like this first few weeks did.

Regardless, I'm much more excited for the book now than I was when it was first announced!

Question: If changes are made between December 17th and the release of the book, will we be advised of those changes? Or will the book bring its own new surprises for these classes?

This is the last version of the classes for the playtest. They will undoubtedly see a number of changes after this, but you will have to wait for the final book to learn about them.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Yeah, only a week left to go and then 8 months till this book is out.

Yeah, there's a quick burst of fun and activity and then it's about 9 months of frustrated waiting until your efforts come to fruition... Publishing a book is the same way.

I imagine there is going to be a generous rebuild option for folks who were and will continue to test these on PFS characters if there are any major changes in the final release?

I like the changes to the warpriest. I really do. I hope it will make it through to the final product with roughly that design.

I like all the changes on the brawler, but I don't want it to end there - it still feels a bit uninspiring. I have no doubt that the brawler is an effective unarmed combatant; but is that all there is to her?

Jiggy wrote:

Question: If changes are made between December 17th and the release of the book, will we be advised of those changes? Or will the book bring its own new surprises for these classes?

This is the last version of the classes for the playtest. They will undoubtedly see a number of changes after this, but you will have to wait for the final book to learn about them.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

So not even something like the top-of-the-discussion-thread notes from round 1?

So not even something like the top-of-the-discussion-thread notes from round 1?

You will probably see a few of these to solve some obvious problems, but I dont think we will be doing any major revisions in this way.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Jiggy wrote:

So not even something like the top-of-the-discussion-thread notes from round 1?

You will probably see a few of these to solve some obvious problems, but I dont think we will be doing any major revisions in this way.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Honestly I'm not worried about major revisions, as those classes are looking really solid. :)

I'm more thinking about PFS characters, who are required to update as information becomes available, but only with "official" updates. If on December 17th it was declared that Class Feature X was going to be changed in some way, but the exact change was not disclosed/"officialized", it would feel weird having to spend the next 8 months playing the character [airquotes]wrong[/airquotes] with full knowledge of an upcoming change.

I wonder if that rambling made any sense at all...

Jiggy wrote:

So not even something like the top-of-the-discussion-thread notes from round 1?

You will probably see a few of these to solve some obvious problems, but I dont think we will be doing any major revisions in this way.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Any hints about archetypes?

Time to build my Warpriest! That edit is fantastic.

Now to decide if I want to use my Dragon's Demand chronicles on it...

I am still very concerned with the name of the Hunter and have not really seen anyone defending it at all (nevermind convincingly) as it currently stands.

Will there be further opportunities to test different aspects of the book?

Warpriest should get fighter feats.

Warpriest should get fighter feats.

or atlest half levels stack/count as fighter for feats and ect,

i'm worried about what full stacking would replace in the current build. although if not directly added i'm sure there will be at least be a few archetypes the use any or each possibility given above^.
or even perhaps the advanced class will have 1/3^ lvls that stack
caster/faith focused/blessing(+domains?) focused 1/2 lvls stack
weapon/unarmed/faith(combat) focused full stacking

as for the OP the changes made make this class a winner and not for dipping like i planned for a chr. very nice update thank you to whom all was involved

While it would be nice for the Warpriest to get fighter feats, don't forget that the Paladin (the closest match to the Warpriest's feel of "holy warrior") does not get access to feats like Weapon Specialization or the like. In fact, only a couple specific prestige classes like Eldritch Knight has access to fighter feats without any classes in Fighter.

Given that between the Ninja and the Investigator, a mortal death wound has been inflicted on the Rogue (seriously, being able to simply "study" a foe in order to get sneak attack damage bonuses pretty much destroys any reason to play a rogue, who either has to use Improved Feint to get ONE attack with bonuses, or flank their foe), I'm hoping we might see a few tweaks for regular classes so that they still have validity of their own. After all, why play a Fighter if a Warpriest can do everything the Fighter car, or play a Rogue if the Investigator makes the Rogue look like the Warrior sub-class.

Given that between the Ninja and the Investigator, a mortal death wound has been inflicted on the Rogue (seriously, being able to simply "study" a foe in order to get sneak attack damage bonuses pretty much destroys any reason to play a rogue, who either has to use Improved Feint to get ONE attack with bonuses, or flank their foe), I'm hoping we might see a few tweaks for regular classes so that they still have validity of their own. After all, why play a Fighter if a Warpriest can do everything the Fighter car, or play a Rogue if the Investigator makes the Rogue look like the Warrior sub-class.

Just a correction here.

1) It takes a Standard action to set up Study Combat.

2) One Study Strike ends the Study Combat. Which means you get that bonus once.

3) You can only gain Study Combat on any given target once every 24 hours.

So you can get one Study Attack against any given opponent with a two round set up vs getting sneak attack every round in the worst case senario....sorry I really don't see the 'mortal death wound to Rogues from the Investigator here.

Tangent101 wrote:

Given that between the Ninja and the Investigator, a mortal death wound has been inflicted on the Rogue (seriously, being able to simply "study" a foe in order to get sneak attack damage bonuses pretty much destroys any reason to play a rogue, who either has to use Improved Feint to get ONE attack with bonuses, or flank their foe), I'm hoping we might see a few tweaks for regular classes so that they still have validity of their own. After all, why play a Fighter if a Warpriest can do everything the Fighter car, or play a Rogue if the Investigator makes the Rogue look like the Warrior sub-class.

Just a correction here.

1) It takes a Standard action to set up Study Combat.

2) One Study Strike ends the Study Combat. Which means you get that bonus once.

3) You can only gain Study Combat on any given target once every 24 hours.

So you can get one Study Attack against any given opponent with a two round set up vs getting sneak attack every round in the worst case senario....sorry I really don't see the 'mortal death wound to Rogues from the Investigator here.

Yeah... I don't see the death of the Rogue in this either. Flanking is NOT that hard to make happen if you have at least 2-3 melee characters in your party. Rogues will still have a place at my table (and in my PFS characters).

holy smokes--why ever take a rogue again. Investigator has same sneak attack. 4 better will save, extracts, alchemy, poison use and inspirations

read the new download--they get sneak attack any time a rogue would now

holy smokes--why ever take a rogue again. Investigator has same sneak attack. 4 better will save, extracts, alchemy, poison use and inspirations

read the new download--they get sneak attack any time a rogue would now

Don't know what you're referring to, buddy - the investigator got sneak attack swapped out for studied combat and studied strike.

not on Saturday when I logged in to check this. apparently someone at Paizo had made another update and reinput the old sneak attack info--it is fixed again now.

Sadly, I have not been able to playtest as much as I had originally intended. I did playtest the Swashbuckler to a large degree, as that is the class that is going to the most use in my upcoming pirate campaign. Still looking forward to seeing what the final results are, and I hope my playtest data that I was able to put up on the boards is of use.